So far, I am liking it.

I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.

Can Debian grub look after other systems?
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doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>Can Debian grub look after other systems?

Sure.

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----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
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Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> >Can Debian grub look after other systems?

> Sure.

Isn't that disabled by default now in Bookworm/stable?
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ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) writes:

> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>> doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> >Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>
>> Sure.
>
> Isn't that disabled by default now in Bookworm/stable?

If you mean os-prober, it's only needed for BIOS boots. And since the OP
already got Debian and FreeBSD going, it's probably not relevant.

On 14.08.2024 um 16:43 Uhr Ant wrote:

> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> > doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> > >Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>
> > Sure.
>
> Isn't that disabled by default now in Bookworm/stable?

It is, but if needed, enable it.
On EFI systems, you can boot the other OS directly via the UEFI
internal boot manager. Benefit of that: No more raise conditions for
updating the boot manager stuff in the other OS.

--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1723646593muell@cartoonies.org

On 14.08.2024 um 13:31 Uhr The Doctor wrote:

> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>
> Can Debian grub look after other systems?

BIOS or UEFI system?

--
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1723635109muell@cartoonies.org

Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>On 14.08.2024 um 16:43 Uhr Ant wrote:
>
>> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>> > doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> > >Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>>
>> > Sure.
>>
>> Isn't that disabled by default now in Bookworm/stable?
>
>It is, but if needed, enable it.
>On EFI systems, you can boot the other OS directly via the UEFI
>internal boot manager. Benefit of that: No more raise conditions for
>updating the boot manager stuff in the other OS.

That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.

Greetings
Marc
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
> Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.

I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
fatal.

In article <v9n1ks$h0pl$1@news1.tnib.de>,
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> wrote:
>>On 14.08.2024 um 16:43 Uhr Ant wrote:
>>
>>> Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>>> > doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>> > >Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>>>
>>> > Sure.
>>>
>>> Isn't that disabled by default now in Bookworm/stable?
>>
>>It is, but if needed, enable it.
>>On EFI systems, you can boot the other OS directly via the UEFI
>>internal boot manager. Benefit of that: No more raise conditions for
>>updating the boot manager stuff in the other OS.
>
>That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
>Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>
>Greetings
>Marc

Dual booted befreo with OS/2 and Windows in the 1990s.

>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
>Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
>Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
United Kingdom save the NAtion on 4 July 2024 vote Liberal Democrat

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
>> Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>
> I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
> lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
> you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
> fatal.

The only mistake that should make that fatal is failing to have a
backup that can be restored if it goes wrong. If the Windows
installation is of value then that _should_ exist already. Though
perhaps this would be an ideal time to test restoring the backup
onto a spare disk, then there's a spare to immediately swap over
with the disk Linux is being installed on if that goes wrong.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
> So far, I am liking it.
>
> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>
> Can Debian grub look after other systems?

GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.

Debian ... maybe you want virtual machines instead ?
If so there's VirtualBox though some like KVM better
(VBox IS a bit more flexible though IMHO, fewer
config files to fool with).

With VMs several can be running at the same time and
interact. Biz likes VMs because they only have to
buy ONE box - though they're screwed if that one box
has a fault. Not quite as fast as 'bare metal' installs
but these days not so bad.

VMs are a GREAT way to test out Linux distros.
VBox will also run DOS, early Wins, even CP/M-86.
Have a VM of Win-1.1 - WOW was it BAD !!! :-)

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
>> Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>
>I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
>lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
>you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
>fatal.

Yes. You need to have expert knowledge in all involved operating
systems to fix that. Virtualization or dedicated hardware (swappable
disks or even dedicated machines) is way easier for a beginner.

Greetings
Marc
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>Dual booted befreo with OS/2 and Windows in the 1990s.

I have expert knowledge and am able to do dual, triple, quadruple
boot. I am glad that I don't need to go through that hassle any more.

Greetings
Marc
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
>> So far, I am liking it.
>>
>> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>>
>> Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>
> GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
> install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
> is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.

A big part of grub is building the configuration, which is done by
scripts that come from the respective distribution. And yes, there are
differences in those scripts.

> Debian ... maybe you want virtual machines instead ?
> If so there's VirtualBox though some like KVM better
> (VBox IS a bit more flexible though IMHO, fewer
> config files to fool with).

I prefer KVM/libvirt/virt-manager. Virtualbox needs out of tree kernel
modules, which can be a hassle during upgrades. I don't agree on the
flexibility point. Virtualbox caters more for the novice user because
its GUI is a bit more polished.

Greetings
Marc
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

In article <P4mdnbCYM_pktV37nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
>> So far, I am liking it.
>>
>> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>>
>> Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>
> GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
> install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
> is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.
>
> Debian ... maybe you want virtual machines instead ?
> If so there's VirtualBox though some like KVM better
> (VBox IS a bit more flexible though IMHO, fewer
> config files to fool with).
>
> With VMs several can be running at the same time and
> interact. Biz likes VMs because they only have to
> buy ONE box - though they're screwed if that one box
> has a fault. Not quite as fast as 'bare metal' installs
> but these days not so bad.
>
> VMs are a GREAT way to test out Linux distros.
> VBox will also run DOS, early Wins, even CP/M-86.
> Have a VM of Win-1.1 - WOW was it BAD !!! :-)

VMs like VirtualBox and FreeBSD bhyve works wonders.
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
United Kingdom save the NAtion on 4 July 2024 vote Liberal Democrat

In article <v9ppjt$lu78$1@news1.tnib.de>,
Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
>doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>>Dual booted befreo with OS/2 and Windows in the 1990s.
>
>I have expert knowledge and am able to do dual, triple, quadruple
>boot. I am glad that I don't need to go through that hassle any more.
>
>Greetings
>Marc

OPtions are always great.

>--
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
>Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
>Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
United Kingdom save the NAtion on 4 July 2024 vote Liberal Democrat

Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:
> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>>On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
>>> So far, I am liking it.
>>>
>>> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>>>
>>> Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>>
>> GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
>> install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
>> is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.
>
> A big part of grub is building the configuration, which is done by
> scripts that come from the respective distribution. And yes, there are
> differences in those scripts.

The Debian one messed up a dual-boot set-up on me after an upgrade,
and there was no simple description of manual configuration in the
Grub docs. I've since replaced Grub2 with the Extlinux bootloader
everywhere (after determining that Grub "Legacy" doesn't work
booting new Linux distros anymore), which doesn't expect you to
rely on flaky scripts to make its equivalent of Grub Legacy's good
old menu.lst.

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

On 8/17/24 5:16 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
>>> So far, I am liking it.
>>>
>>> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>>>
>>> Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>>
>> GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
>> install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
>> is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.
>
> A big part of grub is building the configuration, which is done by
> scripts that come from the respective distribution. And yes, there are
> differences in those scripts.

I noticed that when trying to put Linux on laptops
with the early nvram 'disks'. At the time most GRUBs
would not recognize them properly, you couldn't boot
from them. However the GRUB that came with MX Linux
was a tad smarter. Still have MX on those old laptops,
hell, have it on THIS newer laptop.

>> Debian ... maybe you want virtual machines instead ?
>> If so there's VirtualBox though some like KVM better
>> (VBox IS a bit more flexible though IMHO, fewer
>> config files to fool with).
>
> I prefer KVM/libvirt/virt-manager. Virtualbox needs out of tree kernel
> modules, which can be a hassle during upgrades. I don't agree on the
> flexibility point. Virtualbox caters more for the novice user because
> its GUI is a bit more polished.

KVM is perfectly good - UNTIL you want to maybe ENLARGE
a virtual disk. Then you've gotta edit config files and
do some other weird stuff. With VBox its just sliding
a control and VBox does the rest. KVM also uses a custom
kernel wheras VBox generally doesn't need that.

All in all, I'd say the two were kinda "even".

Also tried Xen ... but that seems to have fallen well
behind the curve at this point and the commercial ops
are, well, $$$ for not ALL that much extra goodness.

Anyway, for the poster, I'm still gonna suggest he install
in a VM on his Winders CrapBox rather than set up dual-boot.

Tricky thing is setting up VMs on a box so each one seems
to have its own local IP address, can talk to other machines
and the net and vice-versa kinda on its own. Tutorials too
often assume that you don't want to DO that, that you're
just playin' rather than want multiple virtual servers.
Hey, if you've got a hot i9 with gobs of ram then lots
of usable VMs are kinda the logical step.

On 8/17/24 9:59 AM, The Doctor wrote:
> In article <P4mdnbCYM_pktV37nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> 186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>> On 8/14/24 9:31 AM, The Doctor wrote:
>>> So far, I am liking it.
>>>
>>> I can use Debian to Boot Between Debian and FreeBSD.
>>>
>>> Can Debian grub look after other systems?
>>
>> GRUB can work multi-boots ... most any Linux will
>> install GRUB and you can add on from there. GRUB
>> is not Linux, not Debian, its own app.
>>
>> Debian ... maybe you want virtual machines instead ?
>> If so there's VirtualBox though some like KVM better
>> (VBox IS a bit more flexible though IMHO, fewer
>> config files to fool with).
>>
>> With VMs several can be running at the same time and
>> interact. Biz likes VMs because they only have to
>> buy ONE box - though they're screwed if that one box
>> has a fault. Not quite as fast as 'bare metal' installs
>> but these days not so bad.
>>
>> VMs are a GREAT way to test out Linux distros.
>> VBox will also run DOS, early Wins, even CP/M-86.
>> Have a VM of Win-1.1 - WOW was it BAD !!! :-)
>
> VMs like VirtualBox and FreeBSD bhyve works wonders.

Great stuff !

Don't forget KVM either.

Think I had like NINE VMs set up on my old office PC
before I retired ... everything from CP/M-86 with the
Turbo Pascal variant to Win-2k and a bunch of
Linux/BSD distros. Still write fun little apps for
the old multi-pass IBM/MS 'C' and PASCAL compilers.
'C' is the workhorse but the look/feel/thinking
behind Wirth's PASCAL is STILL my fave. CANNOT find a
Modula-3 compiler for Linux that actually WORKS alas !

Oh, had a Win-1.1 install ... it was just TERRIBLE,
you could find better for C-64s !!!

DID like Win2k ... a step above Win-98 but without all
the bloat/complexity that started with XP. Fun bit was
looking thru the registry and seeing the "NSA-BACKDOOR"
entries ... even then :-)

On 8/17/24 5:12 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>>
>>> That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
>>> Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>>
>> I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
>> lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
>> you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
>> fatal.
>
> Yes. You need to have expert knowledge in all involved operating
> systems to fix that. Virtualization or dedicated hardware (swappable
> disks or even dedicated machines) is way easier for a beginner.

Very correct. FIXING a hosed multi-boot system is NOT
a trivial exercise ... might even be just impossible
and require total re-installs.

The poster sounds like a relative newbie, not a grizzled
systems guy with a bottle of whisky and old cans of JOLT
Cola in the desk drawer who stays up to 5am :-)

VMs these days ARE the better way to go. With today's
CPU power and huge memory caps they're an even better
way to go.

Still, I'd rec Linux as the 'primary' OS you use to
create the VMs - not Winder$

On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 22:24:58 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Also tried Xen ... but that seems to have fallen well behind the
> curve at this point ...

<https://xen-orchestra.com/>

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>
> > That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
> > Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>
> I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
> lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
> you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
> fatal.

Nah. You backup your EFI partition daily along with the rest of your bits.

If there is a disaster, you can revert your boot-manager to the way it was
last night with 'dd' and about 10 seconds.

Having booted up the system, you can repair it easily.

Jack
--
My Wife told me to take the spider out instead of killing him.

Went out. Had a few drinks. Nice guy. He's a web designer.

On 2024-08-18, Jack Strangio wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>>
>> > That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
>> > Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>>
>> I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
>> lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
>> you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
>> fatal.
>
> Nah. You backup your EFI partition daily along with the rest of your bits.
>
> If there is a disaster, you can revert your boot-manager to the way it was
> last night with 'dd' and about 10 seconds.
>
> Having booted up the system, you can repair it easily.

This is probably the chicken-and-egg aspect of it. Probably the best is
having an isolated (removable or otherwise unplugged) bootable medium
ready in case it's needed.

I guess the main risk with multiple boot scenarios involving Windows is
Windows wiping it out on purpose. (Or perhaps out of incompetence? I
mean, it's said not to attribute to malice...)

--
Nuno Silva

In article <NIucnUlRSumk8Fz7nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:
>On 8/17/24 5:12 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 16 Aug 2024 10:12:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:
>>>
>>>> That being said, if you're not an expert, avoid dual boot please.
>>>> Especially if Windows is one of the OSses.
>>>
>>> I have heard others recommend against dual boot, too. Mistakes will likely
>>> lead to neither OS being able to boot; this is typically easy to fix if
>>> you know your way around a tool like SystemRescue, but if not, it can be
>>> fatal.
>>
>> Yes. You need to have expert knowledge in all involved operating
>> systems to fix that. Virtualization or dedicated hardware (swappable
>> disks or even dedicated machines) is way easier for a beginner.
>
> Very correct. FIXING a hosed multi-boot system is NOT
> a trivial exercise ... might even be just impossible
> and require total re-installs.
>
> The poster sounds like a relative newbie, not a grizzled
> systems guy with a bottle of whisky and old cans of JOLT
> Cola in the desk drawer who stays up to 5am :-)
>
> VMs these days ARE the better way to go. With today's
> CPU power and huge memory caps they're an even better
> way to go.
>
> Still, I'd rec Linux as the 'primary' OS you use to
> create the VMs - not Winder$

I prefer FreeBSD bhyve !!
--
Member - Liberal International This is doctor@nk.ca Ici doctor@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ;
United Kingdom save the NAtion on 4 July 2024 vote Liberal Democrat

Jack Strangio <jackstrangio@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Nah. You backup your EFI partition daily along with the rest of your bits.
>
>If there is a disaster, you can revert your boot-manager to the way it was
>last night with 'dd' and about 10 seconds.
>
>Having booted up the system, you can repair it easily.

How about the part of EFI boot configuration that is store in NVRAM?

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402