On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 10:48:07 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> On 6/28/24 10:32, rbowman wrote:
>
> A lot of text invisibly in white on white

Funny, rbowman's post reads just fine for me. You probably need to
adjust your newsreader's interface to suit your colour requirements.

[snip]

> Pick contrasting colors for Text and background.
> Please so I can read what is being said without having
> to followup to the topic.

Unless the poster has written his post in html (which rbowman
doesn't seem to have done), the /poster/ cannot set or change
the colours that /your/ newsreader imposes upon the displayed
text.

You seem to use "BetterBird" (a Mozilla Thunderbird clone).
You should check the settings there for the colours or themes
tuning knobs.

[snip]

HTH
--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

Bobbie Sellers wrote:

> rbowman wrote:
>
> A lot of text invisibly in white on white

The message you replied to is a plaintext one and couldn't alter the
foreground/background colours you see, even if it tried ...

On 6/28/24 10:32, rbowman wrote:

A lot of text invisibly in white on white

> On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:18:29 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>
>> My big gripe though isn't the PI per-se, but the Pi5 reliance on the
>> not/never-ready-for-prime-time Deb WORM. Four of the five main things
>> I do with PIs would NOT work with WORM. Went to BeeLink boxes and
>> Manjaro instead.
>
> I can't address Bookworm since I've studiously avoided moving my Debian
> box from Bullseye. I am running Ubuntu on a BeeLink SER 4 and am happy
> with it but that model is a AMD Ryzen 7 and not comparable to a Pi.
>
> I probably will pick up a Pi 5 at some point primarily to work with the
> Pico W. I'm currently using MicroPython on the Pico and would install the
> C/C++ tool chain on the Pi.
>

Pick contrasting colors for Text and background.
Please so I can read what is being said without having
to followup to the topic.

bliss who deals with things and this month is having no
problems with connecting to Eternal-September.

--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com

On 6/28/24 1:32 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:18:29 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>
>> My big gripe though isn't the PI per-se, but the Pi5 reliance on the
>> not/never-ready-for-prime-time Deb WORM. Four of the five main things
>> I do with PIs would NOT work with WORM. Went to BeeLink boxes and
>> Manjaro instead.
>
> I can't address Bookworm since I've studiously avoided moving my Debian
> box from Bullseye. I am running Ubuntu on a BeeLink SER 4 and am happy
> with it but that model is a AMD Ryzen 7 and not comparable to a Pi.
>
> I probably will pick up a Pi 5 at some point primarily to work with the
> Pico W. I'm currently using MicroPython on the Pico and would install the
> C/C++ tool chain on the Pi.

Moved away from Ubuntu some time back ... Canonical
just started making it too weird - all sorts of utterly
pointless changes from solid Deb that make life more
and more complicated.

But now 'solid Deb' seems to have been contaminated,
LIKELY by hiring Canonical rejects. This is breaking
more and more things which have worked perfectly for
over a decade - and some resist fixing by any sane
means and I'm too damned old to basically re-write
half the system for funzies.

So, for now, I'm into Arch derivatives. Manjaro is
now very good but there are a couple others I'd
consider. My one gripe with Manjaro is the update
model ... which quickly gets to basically reloading
the entire 2+gb system, rather like Tumbleweed,
and that takes time and bites into the monthly
data allotment.

Pi5 won't work with Bullseye or any pre-WORM
Deb derivative - you get a nasty boot message
if you try. Waiting for Arch that will work
right on a Pi5, MAYbe Fedora.

Ah : "It is possible to get Arch Linux ARM up
and running on a Raspberry Pi 5 by removing
U-Boot and replacing the mainline kernel with
a directly booting kernel from the Raspberry
Pi foundation"

Um ... no ... what an ugly hack ... just won't
buy another Pi5 anytime soon.

Clearly boards like BeeLink and BMax fit into a
different niche from Pi's - for some apps you
WANT all those I/O pins and there's no substitute.
However I had been using Pi's for apps that did
not need those pins. Pi5/WORM has forced me to
a fork in the road, Pi doesn't do it all anymore.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:02:18 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:

> So, for now, I'm into Arch derivatives. Manjaro is now very good but
> there are a couple others I'd consider. My one gripe with Manjaro is
> the update model ... which quickly gets to basically reloading the
> entire 2+gb system, rather like Tumbleweed, and that takes time and
> bites into the monthly data allotment.

I avoided the Red Hat family after the gcc 2.96 fiaso in the early '2000s
but recently gave Fedora a shot on one of my backup machines. I knew what
i was getting into but the KDE spin 40 has a huge number of updates.
They've even managed to copy the Windows 'Don't turn you machine off'
message.

> Clearly boards like BeeLink and BMax fit into a different niche from
> Pi's - for some apps you WANT all those I/O pins and there's no
> substitute. However I had been using Pi's for apps that did not need
> those pins. Pi5/WORM has forced me to a fork in the road, Pi doesn't
> do it all anymore.

I've got a few Pico Ws and may go the route of using one Pico as the
loader/debugger for the target Pico to get around the pin problem with a
conventional Linux box. They're cheap enough.

On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 18:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Lew Pitcher wrote:

> Unless the poster has written his post in html (which rbowman doesn't
> seem to have done), the /poster/ cannot set or change the colours that
> /your/ newsreader imposes upon the displayed text.

No, I'm a dinosaur. Straight text, no binaries, no emojis, no NZB. With
Pan I'm not sure what would happen if I manually composed a reply in html.

On 28/06/2024 18:32, rbowman wrote:
> I'm currently using MicroPython on the Pico and would install the
> C/C++ tool chain on the Pi.

I'm running that toolkit on a medium power intel desktop. Its faster

--
For in reason, all government without the consent of the governed is the
very definition of slavery.

Jonathan Swift

On 28/06/2024 18:48, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>  Pick contrasting colors for Text and background.
>     Please so I can read what is being said without having
> to followup to the topic.

Its dark grey on white for me

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On 28/06/2024 21:04, Andy Burns wrote:
> Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>
>> rbowman wrote:
>>
>> A lot of text invisibly in white on white
>
> The message you replied to is a plaintext one and couldn't alter the
> foreground/background colours you see, even if it tried ...
>
Correct. The message is formatted as 8 bit ASCII. Whatever colours the
reader have imposed on it is not the senders problem.
I see it as medium grey on white for quoted stuff and black on white for
the post

--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 07:24:05 +0000, rbowman wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 18:00:51 -0000 (UTC), Lew Pitcher wrote:
>
>> Unless the poster has written his post in html (which rbowman doesn't
>> seem to have done), the /poster/ cannot set or change the colours that
>> /your/ newsreader imposes upon the displayed text.
>
> No, I'm a dinosaur. Straight text, no binaries, no emojis, no NZB. With
> Pan I'm not sure what would happen if I manually composed a reply in html.

I'm right there with you, brother.

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 10:25:53 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 28/06/2024 21:04, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Bobbie Sellers wrote:
>>
>>> rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>> A lot of text invisibly in white on white
>>
>> The message you replied to is a plaintext one and couldn't alter the
>> foreground/background colours you see, even if it tried ...
>>
> Correct. The message is formatted as 8 bit ASCII. Whatever colours the
> reader have imposed on it is not the senders problem.
> I see it as medium grey on white for quoted stuff and black on white for
> the post

Pan gives me a bit wider colour palette than that, with
black on white for the post,
green on white quoting the previous poster
orange on white 2nd-level quoting, and
purple oh white 3rd-level quoting
with all four foreground colours being user selectable

--
Lew Pitcher
"In Skills We Trust"

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 12:35:18 -0000 (UTC), Lew Pitcher wrote:

> Pan gives me a bit wider colour palette than that, with
> black on white for the post,
> green on white quoting the previous poster orange on white 2nd-level
> quoting, and purple oh white 3rd-level quoting
> with all four foreground colours being user selectable

That's the defaults I see since I rarely mess around configuring
applications unless the defaults are really obnoxious. That's all local to
Pan and the reply format is black and white, preserving the >>> format.

I never really thought about it.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:02:18 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>
>
>> So, for now, I'm into Arch derivatives. Manjaro is now very good but
>> there are a couple others I'd consider. My one gripe with Manjaro is
>> the update model ... which quickly gets to basically reloading the
>> entire 2+gb system, rather like Tumbleweed, and that takes time and
>> bites into the monthly data allotment.
>
> I avoided the Red Hat family after the gcc 2.96 fiaso in the early '2000s
> but recently gave Fedora a shot on one of my backup machines. I knew what
> i was getting into but the KDE spin 40 has a huge number of updates.
> They've even managed to copy the Windows 'Don't turn you machine off'
> message.
>
>> Clearly boards like BeeLink and BMax fit into a different niche from
>> Pi's - for some apps you WANT all those I/O pins and there's no
>> substitute. However I had been using Pi's for apps that did not need
>> those pins. Pi5/WORM has forced me to a fork in the road, Pi doesn't
>> do it all anymore.
>
> I've got a few Pico Ws and may go the route of using one Pico as the
> loader/debugger for the target Pico to get around the pin problem with a
> conventional Linux box. They're cheap enough.
>
>

I'm using the radxa zero for kodi with debian bookworm. Works flawlessly
and the small radxa zero has more than enough power to make x265 and 1080p
run smoothly on the TV. =)

Bobbie Sellers <blissInSanFrancisco@mouse-potato.com> writes:

> On 6/28/24 10:32, rbowman wrote:
>
> A lot of text invisibly in white on white
>
>
>> On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 00:18:29 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>>
>>> My big gripe though isn't the PI per-se, but the Pi5 reliance on the
>>> not/never-ready-for-prime-time Deb WORM. Four of the five main things
>>> I do with PIs would NOT work with WORM. Went to BeeLink boxes and
>>> Manjaro instead.
>> I can't address Bookworm since I've studiously avoided moving my
>> Debian
>> box from Bullseye. I am running Ubuntu on a BeeLink SER 4 and am happy
>> with it but that model is a AMD Ryzen 7 and not comparable to a Pi.
>> I probably will pick up a Pi 5 at some point primarily to work with
>> the
>> Pico W. I'm currently using MicroPython on the Pico and would install the
>> C/C++ tool chain on the Pi.
>>
>
> Pick contrasting colors for Text and background.
> Please so I can read what is being said without having
> to followup to the topic.
>

That sounds like something that is set in your newsreader.

Maybe you should switch to a newsreader like slrn? You could run it in a
terminal window with a black background and then set the colors for the
text to whatever you like. That should give you higher contrast for
better visibility of text.

On 6/29/24 3:11 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:02:18 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>
>
>> So, for now, I'm into Arch derivatives. Manjaro is now very good but
>> there are a couple others I'd consider. My one gripe with Manjaro is
>> the update model ... which quickly gets to basically reloading the
>> entire 2+gb system, rather like Tumbleweed, and that takes time and
>> bites into the monthly data allotment.
>
> I avoided the Red Hat family after the gcc 2.96 fiaso in the early '2000s
> but recently gave Fedora a shot on one of my backup machines. I knew what
> i was getting into but the KDE spin 40 has a huge number of updates.
> They've even managed to copy the Windows 'Don't turn you machine off'
> message.

Fedora is 'fair' these days - although there's still not
a version that'll boot properly on a Pi5. Do not care for
KDE - too "fat" - and Gnome ... oh my gawd !!! My faves
are LXDE or XFCE ... light and To The Point.

RHEL and direct derivs ... the IBM buyout messed that up.
Basically you become a beta-code tester for IBM. This is
not what I'd want to build a biz server on.

Anyway, for now, I'm gonna go with Arch derivs. Arch
is still more Linux "traditional" under the hood. Have
NOT been able to get Samba to work with Manjaro alas,
and I've tried every trick I know. ALWAYS some kind
of auth error. Had to go to the No File Security system ...

>> Clearly boards like BeeLink and BMax fit into a different niche from
>> Pi's - for some apps you WANT all those I/O pins and there's no
>> substitute. However I had been using Pi's for apps that did not need
>> those pins. Pi5/WORM has forced me to a fork in the road, Pi doesn't
>> do it all anymore.
>
> I've got a few Pico Ws and may go the route of using one Pico as the
> loader/debugger for the target Pico to get around the pin problem with a
> conventional Linux box. They're cheap enough.

Well, the Pico is a micro-CONTROLLER ... much more like
an Arduino than a Pi. I've built a lot of things on, or
including, PIC microcontrollers (assembler programming
is such a BUZZ !) and Ards as well. They have their solid
place in the computing universe.

Pi's are kinda unique ... a mid-point between microcontroller
and microprocessor PCs. You can get most of the goodies of
a PC, but you also get all those I/O pins and ports and
libraries for dealing with them. I've tried a Banana and
Orange Pi, but they're a bit more "weird" to deal with.
I've reached an age where "computer adventure" is less
important that "computer that Just Works".

Hmmmm ... animal nervous systems are rather different than
the way most people use computer analogs. Most obviously
with the eye, but really all the way down, the nerves
serve as signal "pre-processors" ... characterizing,
prioritizing, encoding, data to be sent to the brain.

This streamlines brain design as a lot of the hard
work is already done for it. Annoyances like peripheral
neuropathy are not due to dead nerves, but the encoding
system getting messed up. In any case, this sort of
model might be interesting to extend into "robots",
with tiny low-power uP's doing the environmental
characterization/encoding thus allowing a smaller
"real CPU" or data link TO one, to require less power
and bandwidth. What's happening to your robots "toe"
becomes a compressed/pre-processed serial data stream.

On 6/29/24 4:11 PM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:02:18 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>    So, for now, I'm into Arch derivatives. Manjaro is now very good but
>>>    there are a couple others I'd consider. My one gripe with Manjaro is
>>>    the update model ... which quickly gets to basically reloading the
>>>    entire 2+gb system, rather like Tumbleweed, and that takes time and
>>>    bites into the monthly data allotment.
>>
>> I avoided the Red Hat family after the gcc 2.96 fiaso in the early '2000s
>> but recently gave Fedora a shot on one of my backup machines. I knew what
>> i was getting into but the KDE spin 40 has a huge number of updates.
>> They've even managed to copy the Windows 'Don't turn you machine off'
>> message.
>>
>>>    Clearly boards like BeeLink and BMax fit into a different niche from
>>>    Pi's - for some apps you WANT all those I/O pins and there's no
>>>    substitute. However I had been using Pi's for apps that did not need
>>>    those pins. Pi5/WORM has forced me to a fork in the road, Pi doesn't
>>>    do it all anymore.
>>
>> I've got a few Pico Ws and may go the route of using one Pico as the
>> loader/debugger for the target Pico to get around the pin problem with a
>> conventional Linux box. They're cheap enough.
>>
>>
>
> I'm using the radxa zero for kodi with debian bookworm. Works flawlessly
> and the small radxa zero has more than enough power to make x265 and
> 1080p run smoothly on the TV. =)

Glad SOMETHING works on WORM ...

IMHO it's been contaminated by Canonical rejects and
was released WAY too early. FAR too many utterly
POINTLESS changes that do NOT improve usability or
security or anything. Deb should go back one or two
steps and then advance from that paradigm. From Deb
we expect SOLID and TRADITIONAL Linux. Let others
try all the weird stuff.

On Tue, 2 Jul 2024, 26xh.0712 wrote:

> On 6/29/24 4:11 PM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:02:18 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>    So, for now, I'm into Arch derivatives. Manjaro is now very good but
>>>>    there are a couple others I'd consider. My one gripe with Manjaro is
>>>>    the update model ... which quickly gets to basically reloading the
>>>>    entire 2+gb system, rather like Tumbleweed, and that takes time and
>>>>    bites into the monthly data allotment.
>>>
>>> I avoided the Red Hat family after the gcc 2.96 fiaso in the early '2000s
>>> but recently gave Fedora a shot on one of my backup machines. I knew what
>>> i was getting into but the KDE spin 40 has a huge number of updates.
>>> They've even managed to copy the Windows 'Don't turn you machine off'
>>> message.
>>>
>>>>    Clearly boards like BeeLink and BMax fit into a different niche from
>>>>    Pi's - for some apps you WANT all those I/O pins and there's no
>>>>    substitute. However I had been using Pi's for apps that did not need
>>>>    those pins. Pi5/WORM has forced me to a fork in the road, Pi doesn't
>>>>    do it all anymore.
>>>
>>> I've got a few Pico Ws and may go the route of using one Pico as the
>>> loader/debugger for the target Pico to get around the pin problem with a
>>> conventional Linux box. They're cheap enough.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I'm using the radxa zero for kodi with debian bookworm. Works flawlessly
>> and the small radxa zero has more than enough power to make x265 and 1080p
>> run smoothly on the TV. =)
>
> Glad SOMETHING works on WORM ...
>
> IMHO it's been contaminated by Canonical rejects and
> was released WAY too early. FAR too many utterly
> POINTLESS changes that do NOT improve usability or
> security or anything. Deb should go back one or two
> steps and then advance from that paradigm. From Deb
> we expect SOLID and TRADITIONAL Linux. Let others
> try all the weird stuff.
>

Interesting. I was completely unaware of that. Could you give me some
examples of what they did? Note that I don't have any graphical
environment, only the server, an extra codec repository from where I also
got kodi.

On Sat, 29 Jun 2024 01:02:18 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:

> But now 'solid Deb' seems to have been contaminated, LIKELY by hiring
> Canonical rejects. This is breaking more and more things which have
> worked perfectly for over a decade ...

What sort of things?

I ask because I’ve been running Debian Unstable on my workstations for
years.

"26xh.0712" <26xh.0713@e6t5y.net> wrote:
> Moved away from Ubuntu some time back ... Canonical
> just started making it too weird - all sorts of utterly
> pointless changes from solid Deb that make life more
> and more complicated.
>
> But now 'solid Deb' seems to have been contaminated,
> LIKELY by hiring Canonical rejects.

What is "solid Deb" and who is hiring for them?

I have only been a Debian Developer for more than 20 years, maybe I
have missed something. Please enlighten me.

You're babbling without understanding what you're talking about.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header
Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402

On Mon, 22 Jul 2024, Marc Haber wrote:

> I have only been a Debian Developer for more than 20 years, maybe I
> have missed something. Please enlighten me.

20 years, that is impressive! Do you know, given the recent woke debacle
with Nix, if the debian project is very woke and discriminating against
people with christian conservative views?

Since reading about how this happens more and more in the open source
space, I've started moving away from project that are discriminating
against conservative christians and to projects who are more focused on
the "shut up and code" philosophy instead of politics.

On Mon, 22 Jul 2024 08:22:09 +0200, Marc Haber wrote:

> You're babbling without understanding what you're talking about.

There is some kind of plot by Big Linux to impose their rule on the Open
Source world and suppress all dissent, don’t you know ...

On Tue, 2 Jul 2024 03:00:44 -0400, 26xh.0712 wrote:

> FAR too many utterly POINTLESS changes that do NOT improve
> usability or security or anything.

Debian Stable may be boring, but it’s rock-sold reliable. I have loads of
client installations running mission-critical business workloads on it.

On 7/22/24 01:59, D wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 22 Jul 2024, Marc Haber wrote:
>
>> I have only been a Debian Developer for more than 20 years, maybe I
>> have missed something. Please enlighten me.

He is a conservative Christan he says, so enlightenment
is not in his plan. He will show the Conservative Christian Light
and expects you to be Saved thereby. If he was a Zen Buddhist
he might bring enlightenment but some of the reliable methods
used in the past were very rude.

>
> 20 years, that is impressive! Do you know, given the recent woke debacle
> with Nix, if the debian project is very woke and discriminating against
> people with christian conservative views?

Exactly what are conservative Christian views?

How are competent coders being discriminated against?

>
> Since reading about how this happens more and more in the open source
> space, I've started moving away from project that are discriminating
> against conservative christians and to projects who are more focused on
> the "shut up and code" philosophy instead of politics.

I could hazard guesses as to your view and how you feel
you are being discriminated against but why make me guess.

bliss
--
b l i s s - S F 4 e v e r at D S L E x t r e m e dot com