On 02/11/2024 10:43, D wrote:
> In terms of american sports cars, is the Chevrolet Corvette any good
> compared with, say a Porsche?

Probably could out drag it, and outlast it, but that's all.

Won't stop or corner worth a damn.

--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
....than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman

On 01/11/2024 21:30, D wrote:
> In summary, while traditional forms of slavery may not have been
> prevalent among the Zulu before European contact, significant numbers of
> Zulus were indeed sold into slavery during the colonial era due to
> warfare, displacement caused by conflict, and economic exploitation by
> colonial powers.

In South Africa, the main people who were imported for Labour were not
the Africans, especially the Zulus whose culture was based on herding
not agriculture, but the southern Indians - especially Tamils from Sri
Lanka.

The story goes they knew how to work hard physically in the fields.

They now comprise a large part of Natals population

On the other hand when it came to animal husbandry, most of the S
African native peoples were outstanding.

--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan

On 02/11/2024 10:44, D wrote:
> Really? So indians bought negro slaves? Had no idea! In europe, indians
> can do no wrong, and their history is held up as a paragon of
> eco-friendly and just, which was crushed by the bad white man.

In reality every culture that has agriculture as its base needs a lot of
dumb stupid labor till it can afford tractors...and the easy way to get
it is to be a warrior, smash a neighbouring tribe and enslave its
members. And hold them down by force.

Only the advent of Christianity, that promised the enslaved to be
especcailly favoured by God, changed that.

Saved no end of violence.

--
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

On 02/11/2024 02:14, Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
>> I have it on good authority that they indeed do, but their ability to
>> actually score a hit depends on the will of Allah. They just point it
>> in the general direction of the alleged enemy and loose off
>
> US in the two wars exhausted an enormous stockpile of .50 caliber, some
> dating back to ww2. I asked some people involved and they said that
> policy was "suppressing fire" ... at slightest provocation until
> ammunition was exhausted ... keeping enemy heads down and minimizing
> returned fire.
>
Yep.
That is still standard practice and you will see it in Ukraine.
One 150mm shell with cluster munitions will take out far more people
running across open ground than any machine gunner.

--
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

On 02/11/2024 05:19, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> I don't think there's any distinct "advantage" these
>   days in either flat-file or MV. Plusses and minuses
>   for each approach. It's all a matter of how you FEEL
>   data should be structured/stored.
>
>   In short, 'religion'.

MV? no one seems to know what 'MV' is. Did you invent it?

Insofar as data storage goes there are considerable advantages to a
normalised database with indices et al.

It is not a religious choice.

The religion comes in with supporters who have been told that
*irrespective of the actual context or uses* it is 'simply the best'

Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the obedience of fools.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.

Charlie Gibbs wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On 2024-11-01, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
>>
>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:57:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, I recently saw a video of someone on the street in India
>>>> rebuilding a starter motor. Primitive but effective. Meanwhile,
>>>> others in the background were overhauling heavy equipment.
>>>> You do what you gotta do.
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_Solo_to_the_Top_of_the_World
>>>
>>> First off, in the US a 350cc bike is considered marginal to ride down to
>>> the Stop'n'Rob for a sixpack. Back in the '90s I have a 400cc Yamaha Seca
>>> I put a lot of miles on both on pavement and on goat tracks so that's
>>> bull.
>>
>> A Honda 50 should be good enough for anyone :-).
>
> I had a Yamaha 80. I rode it half of everywhere, then
> put 50 cents' worth of gas in it and rode the other half.

That's when gas was $0.35/gallon, no doubt.

And when the only computers were mainframes with 300 baud phone links.

--
There are only two kinds of tequila. Good and better.

On 2024-11-02, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On 2024-11-01, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>> A Honda 50 should be good enough for anyone :-).
>>
>> I had a Yamaha 80. I rode it half of everywhere, then
>> put 50 cents' worth of gas in it and rode the other half.
>
> That's when gas was $0.35/gallon, no doubt.
>
> And when the only computers were mainframes with 300 baud phone links.

Right on both counts.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:40:50 +0100, D wrote:

> One of my visions is to start an airline company based on modern
> zeppelins. Instead of sitting in a small metal/carbon fibre tube for 8
> to 14 hours, I'd like the experience of crossing the ocean to be more
> like a cruise ship. It might take 1 to 3 days or so, but you could walk
> around, and enjoy a Michelin star restaurant on board.
>
> I just need to reach Branson or Musk and the thing should be done!
>
> After that, the space elevator!

You're a little late...

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flying-whales-airships-hnk-spc-intl/
index.html

https://www.discovery.com/science/sustainable-aviation-will-reduce-jet-
fuel-emissions-to-zero

Hydrogen or electric powered conventional aircraft are a pipe dream. Both
will work with a LTA shup.

Then there's the helium versus hydrogen argument. The Hindenburg is what
is printed on everyone's imagination. One of the little discussed points
is Germany would have used helium but the US had control of almost all of
the helium supplies and wasn't releasing any to Germany.

It slips in and out of the news cycle as Chicken Little becomes aware of
helium.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/us-just-sold-helium-stockpile-
s-medical-world-worried-rcna134785

As usual the government had its thumb on the scales. The Helium
Privatization Act of 1996 signed by Clinton allowed helium to be sold
below market price putting some of the private suppliers out of business.
I believe a German company, Messer, won the auction. Get you party
balloons while they last.

Perhaps with hydrogen becoming the darling of the alternate energy crowd
it will lose its association with bombs and burning zepplins.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:21:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 02/11/2024 10:40, D wrote:
>> I'd like the experience of crossing the ocean to be more like a cruise
>> ship. It might take 1 to 3 days or so, but you could walk around, and
>> enjoy a Michelin star restaurant on board.
>
> Not in an airship. What you want is a nuclear powered passenger liner.
>
> Weight no problem. Massive horsepower no problem. Should be able to
> cruise over 50mph.
>
> So probably 2 days to make the trip.

In the US that would have the same problem as cruise ships -- first you
would need to take an airship to a seaport.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:46:57 +0100, D wrote:

> What techniques are those? I only remember one thing I've read
> somewhere, and that is that the US military stopped using regular round
> targets for shooting practice, and switched to human shaped targes.
> Apparently it did shift the kill-needle a little bit in a more
> favourable direction.

I read Grossman's 'On Combat' about 10 years ago and dug it out and
thumbed through it. His style is very anecdotal which makes for easy
reading but isn't too good for finding specifics. He mentions force-on-
force paintball and video simulations in a couple of places.

I used to shoot USPSA and there were two flavors of targets:

https://www.challengetargets.com/category/USPSA_TARGETS.html

The club used the vaguely human silhouette variety although some preferred
the octagonal generic target as less human. One thing I learned from the
matches is some people could really get into the scenarios. I never could
and wasn't very good at it. Grossman is big on the sheep, wolves, and
sheepdogs metaphor and implies sheepdogs are born not made.

> I also read somewhere that 1% of the population has no natural barrier
> to killing other people, and that those types of people are the ones
> that the military is looking for to join special forces and snipers.

Lawrence made the point about higher crime rates among ex-military and I
believe it is valid. I believe it may have more to do with who joins the
military rather than the training itself.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 07:54:23 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On 2024-11-01, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
>>
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 22:57:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I recently saw a video of someone on the street in India
>>>>> rebuilding a starter motor. Primitive but effective. Meanwhile,
>>>>> others in the background were overhauling heavy equipment.
>>>>> You do what you gotta do.
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riding_Solo_to_the_Top_of_the_World
>>>>
>>>> First off, in the US a 350cc bike is considered marginal to ride down
>>>> to the Stop'n'Rob for a sixpack. Back in the '90s I have a 400cc
>>>> Yamaha Seca I put a lot of miles on both on pavement and on goat
>>>> tracks so that's bull.
>>>
>>> A Honda 50 should be good enough for anyone :-).
>>
>> I had a Yamaha 80. I rode it half of everywhere, then put 50 cents'
>> worth of gas in it and rode the other half.
>
> That's when gas was $0.35/gallon, no doubt.
>
> And when the only computers were mainframes with 300 baud phone links.

Probably. Filling up one of the bikes which might take 2 or 3 gallons is
less painful at $3.05 than the car. The car usually takes about 8 gallons.
I feel for those people with land whales that are at the pump for 15
minutes.

On 02/11/2024 18:10, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:21:17 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2024 10:40, D wrote:
>>> I'd like the experience of crossing the ocean to be more like a cruise
>>> ship. It might take 1 to 3 days or so, but you could walk around, and
>>> enjoy a Michelin star restaurant on board.
>>
>> Not in an airship. What you want is a nuclear powered passenger liner.
>>
>> Weight no problem. Massive horsepower no problem. Should be able to
>> cruise over 50mph.
>>
>> So probably 2 days to make the trip.
>
> In the US that would have the same problem as cruise ships -- first you
> would need to take an airship to a seaport.

If air travel becomes impossible high speed rail would suit the USA
perfectly. Plenty of empty space.

I think current top speeds are around 200mph.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:43:08 +0100, D wrote:

> In terms of american sports cars, is the Chevrolet Corvette any good
> compared with, say a Porsche?

Probably not. My experience goes back to the '60s and SCCA races at
Limerock. The Corvettes rules the straights but would get passed by Minis
in the corners.

I looked at a Stingray from that era. I had a AH Sprite rollerskate which
was one of the smallest cars on the road. I found it more comfortable than
the huge Stingray, although entry/exit was interesting.

Corvettes have improved a lot since then but given the choice I'd go with
a 911.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:18:05 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Americans aren't really that good at inventing stuff.
>
> What they are good at is taking a design and throwing money at it to
> create a mass produced product that will sell to an enormous marketplace
> that all speaks the same language. Mostly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inventions

We've come up with a few things, like cupcakes and candy corn.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:44:25 +0100, D wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 22:30:39 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, there was a significant
>>> demand for labor in plantations across the Americas and on islands
>>> such as Mauritius and Réunion. This demand fueled a slave trade that
>>> affected many African communities. While much of this trade involved
>>> individuals from coastal regions or areas further north, it also
>>> extended into southern Africa.
>>
>> With a whole continent full of indigenous labor they imported Africans.
>> The truth is while the Cherokee didn't have a problem enslaving people
>> from other tribes they saw the value of buying Africans instead. When
>> they headed to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears they took their African
>> slaves with them.
>
> Really? So indians bought negro slaves? Had no idea! In europe, indians
> can do no wrong, and their history is held up as a paragon of
> eco-friendly and just, which was crushed by the bad white man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation

That's still having repercussions.

https://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/140630565/americas-2nd-largest-indian-
tribe-expels-blacks

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 02/11/2024 10:40, D wrote:
>> I'd like the experience of crossing the ocean to be more like a cruise
>> ship. It might take 1 to 3 days or so, but you could walk around, and enjoy
>> a Michelin star restaurant on board.
>
> Not in an airship. What you want is a nuclear powered passenger liner.
>
> Weight no problem. Massive horsepower no problem. Should be able to cruise
> over 50mph.
>
> So probably 2 days to make the trip.

If you have the money, let's do it! ;) How does the economics of nuclear
powered vs diesel powered look?

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 02/11/2024 10:44, D wrote:
>> Really? So indians bought negro slaves? Had no idea! In europe, indians can
>> do no wrong, and their history is held up as a paragon of eco-friendly and
>> just, which was crushed by the bad white man.
>
> In reality every culture that has agriculture as its base needs a lot of dumb
> stupid labor till it can afford tractors...and the easy way to get it is to
> be a warrior, smash a neighbouring tribe and enslave its members. And hold
> them down by force.
>
> Only the advent of Christianity, that promised the enslaved to be especcailly
> favoured by God, changed that.
>
> Saved no end of violence.

I also have sometimes thought that one "super power" of christianity is
forgiveness and (in theory) an end to family feuds.

If your ead Njals saga you can see the power of the family feud and how
damaging it can be to society when more and more people are dragged into
it.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:40:50 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> One of my visions is to start an airline company based on modern
>> zeppelins. Instead of sitting in a small metal/carbon fibre tube for 8
>> to 14 hours, I'd like the experience of crossing the ocean to be more
>> like a cruise ship. It might take 1 to 3 days or so, but you could walk
>> around, and enjoy a Michelin star restaurant on board.
>>
>> I just need to reach Branson or Musk and the thing should be done!
>>
>> After that, the space elevator!
>
> You're a little late...
>
> https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flying-whales-airships-hnk-spc-intl/
> index.html
>
> https://www.discovery.com/science/sustainable-aviation-will-reduce-jet-
> fuel-emissions-to-zero

I've been hearing about those for a long time and nothing ever happens. If
they don't do it soon, I will get angry, and do it for them. They I will
acquire them! ;)

> Hydrogen or electric powered conventional aircraft are a pipe dream. Both
> will work with a LTA shup.
>
> Then there's the helium versus hydrogen argument. The Hindenburg is what
> is printed on everyone's imagination. One of the little discussed points
> is Germany would have used helium but the US had control of almost all of
> the helium supplies and wasn't releasing any to Germany.
>
> It slips in and out of the news cycle as Chicken Little becomes aware of
> helium.
>
> https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/us-just-sold-helium-stockpile-
> s-medical-world-worried-rcna134785
>
> As usual the government had its thumb on the scales. The Helium
> Privatization Act of 1996 signed by Clinton allowed helium to be sold
> below market price putting some of the private suppliers out of business.
> I believe a German company, Messer, won the auction. Get you party
> balloons while they last.
>
> Perhaps with hydrogen becoming the darling of the alternate energy crowd
> it will lose its association with bombs and burning zepplins.
>
>
>
>

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:46:57 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> What techniques are those? I only remember one thing I've read
>> somewhere, and that is that the US military stopped using regular round
>> targets for shooting practice, and switched to human shaped targes.
>> Apparently it did shift the kill-needle a little bit in a more
>> favourable direction.
>
> I read Grossman's 'On Combat' about 10 years ago and dug it out and
> thumbed through it. His style is very anecdotal which makes for easy
> reading but isn't too good for finding specifics. He mentions force-on-
> force paintball and video simulations in a couple of places.
>
> I used to shoot USPSA and there were two flavors of targets:
>
> https://www.challengetargets.com/category/USPSA_TARGETS.html
>
> The club used the vaguely human silhouette variety although some preferred
> the octagonal generic target as less human. One thing I learned from the
> matches is some people could really get into the scenarios. I never could
> and wasn't very good at it. Grossman is big on the sheep, wolves, and
> sheepdogs metaphor and implies sheepdogs are born not made.
>
>> I also read somewhere that 1% of the population has no natural barrier
>> to killing other people, and that those types of people are the ones
>> that the military is looking for to join special forces and snipers.
>
> Lawrence made the point about higher crime rates among ex-military and I
> believe it is valid. I believe it may have more to do with who joins the
> military rather than the training itself.

In terms of crime of ex-military, another factor could be what they did
and experienced while in the military, and how well prepare they were to
enter society again after the military.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:43:08 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> In terms of american sports cars, is the Chevrolet Corvette any good
>> compared with, say a Porsche?
>
> Probably not. My experience goes back to the '60s and SCCA races at
> Limerock. The Corvettes rules the straights but would get passed by Minis
> in the corners.
>
> I looked at a Stingray from that era. I had a AH Sprite rollerskate which
> was one of the smallest cars on the road. I found it more comfortable than
> the huge Stingray, although entry/exit was interesting.
>
> Corvettes have improved a lot since then but given the choice I'd go with
> a 911.
>

Interesting! Thank you very much for sharing!

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:44:25 +0100, D wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2 Nov 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 22:30:39 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, there was a significant
>>>> demand for labor in plantations across the Americas and on islands
>>>> such as Mauritius and Réunion. This demand fueled a slave trade that
>>>> affected many African communities. While much of this trade involved
>>>> individuals from coastal regions or areas further north, it also
>>>> extended into southern Africa.
>>>
>>> With a whole continent full of indigenous labor they imported Africans.
>>> The truth is while the Cherokee didn't have a problem enslaving people
>>> from other tribes they saw the value of buying Africans instead. When
>>> they headed to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears they took their African
>>> slaves with them.
>>
>> Really? So indians bought negro slaves? Had no idea! In europe, indians
>> can do no wrong, and their history is held up as a paragon of
>> eco-friendly and just, which was crushed by the bad white man.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_Slave_Revolt_in_the_Cherokee_Nation
>
> That's still having repercussions.
>
> https://www.npr.org/2011/09/20/140630565/americas-2nd-largest-indian-
> tribe-expels-blacks

Amazing! That would never slip past swedish censorship!

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 19:23:44 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> ... high speed rail would suit the USA perfectly. Plenty of empty space.

Countries that have got high-speed rail to work have another factor
besides empty space: the ability for the Government to work effectively
with private companies.

In the USA, there is this automatic assumption that the Government is
incompetent and not to be trusted.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:15:29 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Its a perfectly adequate solution to their particular conditions.

Someone else was singing the praises of Carroll Shelby, a USian who
designed cars so good, they could almost be European.

Basically, he was a freak.

On 2 Nov 2024 19:25:27 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> The Corvettes rules the straights but would get passed by
> Minis in the corners.

Presumably those were Mini Coopers, not the regular Leyland Minis. Regular
Leyland engines were even worse than USian ones.

On Sat, 2 Nov 2024 11:39:34 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Only the advent of Christianity, that promised the enslaved to be
> especcailly favoured by God, changed that.
>
> Saved no end of violence.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Ever wonder why “Crusade” is a bad word in the Middle East?