On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there is
> no storage able to meet the intermittency problem.

I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for
your information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy for
months, not touching the fueled generators.

<https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
<https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-viento-renovable>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Today's electric cars fail because the batteries simple are barely good
> enough to replace IC.

I still do not know why you are talking this and not Linux in a Linux
group, but for your info, there are countries that sell more electric
cars than IC, so it works for them.

<https://legrandcontinent.eu/es/2024/10/11/en-noruega-circulan-mas-coches-electricos-que-de-gasolina/>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 09/12/2024 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there is
>> no storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>
> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for
> your information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy for
> months, not touching the fueled generators.
>
> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-viento-renovable>
>
But it still touches the fuelled generators.

And its a very small island, and it uses pumped storage because it has
hills,

Try that in Holland...

And it isn't as green as you think. Dig deeper into the actual statistics

"The longest it’s powered up the whole island is 25 consecutive days,
before the back-up diesel engine had to step in"

That is not 'for months'.

--
The New Left are the people they warned you about.

On 09/12/2024 13:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Today's electric cars fail because the batteries simple are barely
>> good enough to replace IC.
>
> I still do not know why you are talking this and not Linux in a Linux
> group, but for your info, there are countries that sell more electric
> cars than IC, so it works for them.
>
> <https://legrandcontinent.eu/es/2024/10/11/en-noruega-circulan-mas-coches-electricos-que-de-gasolina/>
>
The EU has made that a mandatory requirement.

All that has happened is that people are buyng second hand diesels and
the electric car plants are shutting down

--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.

On 2024-12-09 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/12/2024 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there
>>> is no storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>>
>> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for
>> your information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy
>> for months, not touching the fueled generators.
>>
>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-
>> energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-
>> viento-renovable>
>>
> But it still touches the fuelled generators.
>
> And its a very small island, and it uses pumped storage because it has
> hills,
>
> Try that in Holland...
>
> And it isn't as green as you think. Dig deeper into the actual statistics
>
> "The longest it’s powered up the whole island is 25 consecutive days,
> before the back-up diesel engine had to step in"
>
> That is not 'for months'.

Just google deeper and you will find the months.

Yes, certainly there are occasions when it doesn't work, it is early
days. You just can not say that conclusively "it is impossible to do".

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-12-09 14:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/12/2024 13:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Today's electric cars fail because the batteries simple are barely
>>> good enough to replace IC.
>>
>> I still do not know why you are talking this and not Linux in a Linux
>> group, but for your info, there are countries that sell more electric
>> cars than IC, so it works for them.
>>
>> <https://legrandcontinent.eu/es/2024/10/11/en-noruega-circulan-mas-
>> coches-electricos-que-de-gasolina/>
>>
> The EU has made that a mandatory requirement.
>
> All that has happened is that people are buyng second hand diesels and
> the electric car plants are shutting down

Not in Norway.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:12:47 +0100, D wrote:
>>
>>> Is the grid prepared for this working at scale? And it seems to me that
>>> all solar would "sell" at the same time, driving down the price to zero
>>> or even creating an excess, while all the ones in this system would need
>>> energy at the same time (night) driving the price up, therefore again,
>>> needing some kind of storage.
>>
>> I can't say with certainty but my impression from what I've read is the
>> idea is straight from Cloud Cuckoo Land as far as small residential
>> installations go.
>>
>
> I did some research and calculation of how much it would cost with
> hydrogen storage for a solar powered house in sweden, and 10 years ago, I
> found a pilot project in northern sweden, and the cost was about 1 million
> EUR (give or take).
>
> A couple of months ago I had a look around, and the cost as far as I could
> estimate, for storage, had dropped to about 500k EUR.
>
> If the decrease in cost continues, it would become feasible with solar in
> sweden in about 12-20 years time if you're doing it as a hobby.

And therein lies the problem. Most of the "storage" systems are on an
exponential increase growth curve. But total energy usage per
country/worldwide is so large, that it will take twenty plus years of
"doublings" each year before the storage tech is on par with today's
level of consumption. Meanwhile, in twenty plus years, usage has
itself likely increased, so storage is still behind in total, just not
as far behind as it is today.

Yet, if the 'climate folk' are to be believed, we need to achieve zero
carbon input into the atmosphere yesterday, not twenty plus years into
the future.

So assuming the "no carbon" goal is required, we can't get /there/ from
/here/ without something like nuclear to handle what 'storage' claims
it will be able to do, in twenty plus years.

On 09/12/2024 13:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-09 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 09/12/2024 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there
>>>> is no storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>>>
>>> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for
>>> your information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy
>>> for months, not touching the fueled generators.
>>>
>>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-
>>> energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
>>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-
>>> viento-renovable>
>>>
>> But it still touches the fuelled generators.
>>
>> And its a very small island, and it uses pumped storage because it has
>> hills,
>>
>> Try that in Holland...
>>
>> And it isn't as green as you think. Dig deeper into the actual statistics
>>
>> "The longest it’s powered up the whole island is 25 consecutive days,
>> before the back-up diesel engine had to step in"
>>
>> That is not 'for months'.
>
> Just google deeper and you will find the months.
>
No, I wont

> Yes, certainly there are occasions when it doesn't work, it is early
> days. You just can not say that conclusively "it is impossible to do".
>
You yourself have shown that it is impossible to do.

Your example proves my case.

No one has done it yet, nor its it likely they ever will, unless its a
tiny island with lots of hydro power.

It is impossible to do for most ordinary countries

And the cost of that attempt was insane.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

On 09/12/2024 15:35, Rich wrote:
> So assuming the "no carbon" goal is required, we can't get/there/ from
> /here/ without something like nuclear to handle what 'storage' claims
> it will be able to do, in twenty plus years.

Its all nonsense.

I spent ages analysing all the options and nothing in the end was
cheaper or more effective overall than nuclear power, and that wouldn't
cover the industrial and transport uses of fossil fuels any more than
'renewables'...

You can't drive a truck on batteries across America, or a container ship
from Taiwan.

Sweden is investing in new nuclear power..

In the end the rising price of fossil will move us towards nuclear power
simply because it offers a competitive cost benefit vis à vis systems of
inordinate complexity based on intermittent renewable power.

The future will be mainly nuclear, and since once you have any nuclear
at all there is no reason to make it more expensive and less reliable
and destroy the environment with renewable energy, no one will.

Renewables aren't dead yet, but they are beginning to smell..

--
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and
wrong.

H.L.Mencken

"Carlos E.R." wrote:

> there are countries that sell more electric cars than IC, so it works
> for them.

But neither .uk or .es have ~90% hydroelectric power

On 09/12/2024 16:52, Andy Burns wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." wrote:
>
>> there are countries that sell more electric cars than IC, so it works
>> for them.
>
> But neither .uk or .es have ~90% hydroelectric power
I always find it amazing that people say things like 'I an so totally
off grid' and you look at what they have done and how much fossil fuel
was used to build it and transport it to their homes, and how much food
they buy still uses natural gas for fertilizer and how their homes
feature things made of steel, plastics and cement or brick...and an
internet connection...

And you just think what a delusional bunch of 'see-you-next-tuesday's
they actually are.

The whole renewable fantasy is like a 2 year old saying 'look mummy, I
can jump over a toy rabbit, and then again at 5 years old 'look I can
jump over a chair - by the time I am 50 I will be able to jump over tall
buildings with a single bound!'

Greens would be rather sweet if they hadn't been given a vote.

--
“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the
other is to refuse to believe what is true.”

—Soren Kierkegaard

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> Terrorist and criminals use what they can get their hands on

The hexamine fuel used by camping stoves and model steam engines is now
outlawed, the bad guys figured out how to make a well known military
explosive from it

On 09/12/2024 17:23, Andy Burns wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> Terrorist and criminals use what they can get their hands on
>
> The hexamine fuel used by camping stoves and model steam engines is now
> outlawed, the bad guys figured out how to make a well known military
> explosive from it

Mmm. yes. I had to look that one up.

All the fun has gone out of chemistry

--
WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 09:51, D wrote:
>> So with that in mind, what would be the advantage of a car battery bomb
>> over regular gun powder plus a pipe?
> It's easier and legal to get a car battery.
>
> These gentlemen are not very scientific.
> Making gunpowder from chickenshit is quite complex.
>
> Did you know that acetone - a highly useful solvent used extensively by
> people who make glass fibre components, is also used by people who brew up
> and purify various drugs. Beware ordering a gallon of it...
> The IRA used ammonium nitrate, because it was at that time a legal
> fertilizer. Today it is controlled and comes mixed with something that stops
> it going bang.
>
> We used to use sodium chlorate - a weedkiller that is now also banned
>
> Terrorist and criminals use what they can get their hands on
>
> Only the government gets to use the good stuff.

I think making gun powder is very simple. There's loads of youtube videos,
and I imagine that a couple of pipe bombs would be far easier and more
explosive than car battery bombs.

Fun fact... a swedish wanna be terrorist was caught because he went into a
hardware store bought 20 car batteries and the store thought it was
suspicious that a bearded gentleman from the middle east should suddenly
buy 20 car batteries! =D

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 09:53, D wrote:
>> Swedens government has now decided that sweden shall have new, working
>> nuclear power in 10 years.
>>
>> I would bet several hundred euros against this being done on time.
>
> I'm not so sure.
> At the moment Rolls Royce is going through the red tape box ticking exercise
> on their reactors.
> They want to deploy the first ones by 2030.
> The Czech Republic is working with RR on this as well
>
> There is a huge potential market for the first companies to put together
> scalable small modular reactors that are in mass production.
>
> Build your concrete structures, pop in a boiler and turbines and some
> generators and ship a complete reactor in, and plug it in to a factory
> produced control system, and that's it.
>
> 5 years top's is the aim

This is the government. No SMR:s in sight. They are thinking about "safe"
traditional ones.

If they get it done in 10 years, and if they dare to explore SMR:s, I will
be happily proven wrong.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 09:44, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> Then there is the problem that most hydrogen comes from processing natural
>>> gas rather than green alternative energy sources.
>>>
>>
>> Very interesting! Had no idea! I find it funny that this is somehow never
>> meantioned by the green crowd.
>
> The theory is that surplus electricity can be used to make hydrogen by
> electrolysis.
>
> This is of course far more expensive than natural gas, but since when have
> and EcoCrap™ merchants ever bothered to take their sock s off and learn to
> count beyond ten anyway? The government will pay for it!
>
> It all goes back to the fraudulent EU and its compact with German
> manufacturers to mandate 'Renewable energy' *whether it worked or not*.
>
> The same goes for BEVS heat pumps, smart meters and all the other crap
>
> If they had simply taxed carbon fuels we would be all nuclear by now...and
> be making synthetic diesel

Is electricity the primary cost driver of synthetic diesel?

Germany managed to help the extreme left and the extreme right with their
ridiculous nuclear policy. Given their history, I'm surprised they didn't
see it coming. ;)

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there is no
>> storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>
> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for your
> information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy for months,
> not touching the fueled generators.
>
> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-viento-renovable>

I asked my friendly neighbourhood AI about the project:

The Proyecto El Hierro, aimed at making the island of El Hierro in the
Canary Islands self-sufficient through 100% renewable energy, faced
significant challenges that led to its partial failure. Here are the key
reasons for its shortcomings:
1. Overly Ambitious Goals
The project initially aimed to achieve a 100% renewable energy system
based on wind and pumped hydro power. However, this target was
fundamentally flawed due to the island's geographical limitations. Studies
indicated that achieving such a goal was unrealistic given the required
energy storage capacity and the island's topography, which could not
accommodate the necessary water reservoirs1
2 ..
2. Technical and Operational Issues
During its operational phase, the system struggled with grid integration
and efficiency. For instance, while the project aimed for a wind energy
penetration rate of approximately 65%, it only achieved about 34% in
practice during its first year of test operation1
.. The capacity factor of the wind park was significantly lower than
expected, indicating inefficiencies in energy production and management1
..
3. Energy Losses and Inefficiencies
The design of the system resulted in high energy losses—estimated at
around 40%—due to inefficiencies in pumping water and converting wind
energy into usable electricity1
.. The hydro power contribution was disappointingly low, accounting for
only 3.9% of total energy generation, which highlighted flaws in the
overall system design1
..
4. Dependence on Diesel Backup
Despite its renewable ambitions, El Hierro continued to rely on
diesel-powered backup systems during periods of low wind or water
availability. This reliance undermined the project's goal of complete
renewable self-sufficiency2
3 ..
5. Marketed Expectations vs. Reality
The project was marketed as a pioneering model for renewable energy, yet
it failed to meet its claims. This discrepancy between marketing and
actual performance has led to criticism and skepticism regarding its
viability as a model for other regions aiming for similar goals1
3 .. In summary, while Proyecto El Hierro has made strides towards renewable
energy use, its ambitious goals were not fully realized due to technical
limitations, operational inefficiencies, and an ongoing dependence on
fossil fuels for backup power.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> Today's electric cars fail because the batteries simple are barely good
>> enough to replace IC.
>
> I still do not know why you are talking this and not Linux in a Linux group,
> but for your info, there are countries that sell more electric cars than IC,
> so it works for them.
>
> <https://legrandcontinent.eu/es/2024/10/11/en-noruega-circulan-mas-coches-electricos-que-de-gasolina/>

This is thanks to massive government subsidies, and enormous taxes on
cars, and has nothing to do with the feasibility of the technology itself,
compared without the carrots and sticks of taxes.

It is actually quite fun, because the norwegian taxes on cars has been a
hueg benefit for the rich in norway and the ones who cannot afford an
electric car have been punished, so the millionaires love the norwegian
car tax system.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there is no
>>> storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>>
>> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for your
>> information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy for months,
>> not touching the fueled generators.
>>
>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-viento-renovable>
>>
> But it still touches the fuelled generators.
>
> And its a very small island, and it uses pumped storage because it has hills,
>
> Try that in Holland...
>
> And it isn't as green as you think. Dig deeper into the actual statistics
>
> "The longest it’s powered up the whole island is 25 consecutive days, before
> the back-up diesel engine had to step in"
>
> That is not 'for months'.

Let me add to that the the islands does not have a lot of heavy industry
or data centers, and that the climate and nr of sun hours per year helps
as well.

Impossible to scale up. I could argue that solar is great in the sahara,
but that does not make it feasible at scale, so bad example.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 13:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> Today's electric cars fail because the batteries simple are barely good
>>> enough to replace IC.
>>
>> I still do not know why you are talking this and not Linux in a Linux
>> group, but for your info, there are countries that sell more electric cars
>> than IC, so it works for them.
>>
>> <https://legrandcontinent.eu/es/2024/10/11/en-noruega-circulan-mas-coches-electricos-que-de-gasolina/>
>>
> The EU has made that a mandatory requirement.
>
> All that has happened is that people are buyng second hand diesels and the
> electric car plants are shutting down

Also note that due to the progress of the nationalists in the latest EU
election and the crashing car sector in germany, the EU will prolong the
sales of ICE vehicles in order not to completely destrou one of its few
remaining industries.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, Rich wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 8 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Dec 2024 12:12:47 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Is the grid prepared for this working at scale? And it seems to me that
>>>> all solar would "sell" at the same time, driving down the price to zero
>>>> or even creating an excess, while all the ones in this system would need
>>>> energy at the same time (night) driving the price up, therefore again,
>>>> needing some kind of storage.
>>>
>>> I can't say with certainty but my impression from what I've read is the
>>> idea is straight from Cloud Cuckoo Land as far as small residential
>>> installations go.
>>>
>>
>> I did some research and calculation of how much it would cost with
>> hydrogen storage for a solar powered house in sweden, and 10 years ago, I
>> found a pilot project in northern sweden, and the cost was about 1 million
>> EUR (give or take).
>>
>> A couple of months ago I had a look around, and the cost as far as I could
>> estimate, for storage, had dropped to about 500k EUR.
>>
>> If the decrease in cost continues, it would become feasible with solar in
>> sweden in about 12-20 years time if you're doing it as a hobby.
>
> And therein lies the problem. Most of the "storage" systems are on an
> exponential increase growth curve. But total energy usage per
> country/worldwide is so large, that it will take twenty plus years of
> "doublings" each year before the storage tech is on par with today's
> level of consumption. Meanwhile, in twenty plus years, usage has
> itself likely increased, so storage is still behind in total, just not
> as far behind as it is today.
>
> Yet, if the 'climate folk' are to be believed, we need to achieve zero
> carbon input into the atmosphere yesterday, not twenty plus years into
> the future.
>
> So assuming the "no carbon" goal is required, we can't get /there/ from
> /here/ without something like nuclear to handle what 'storage' claims
> it will be able to do, in twenty plus years.
>

Amen!

On 2024-12-09 17:52, Andy Burns wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." wrote:
>
>> there are countries that sell more electric cars than IC, so it works
>> for them.
>
> But neither .uk or .es have ~90% hydroelectric power

Excuses.

Now, back to Linux?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-12-09 17:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 09/12/2024 13:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-09 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2024 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there
>>>>> is no storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but
>>>> for your information, we have an island that goes with renewable
>>>> energy for months, not touching the fueled generators.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-
>>>> energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
>>>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-
>>>> viento-renovable>
>>>>
>>> But it still touches the fuelled generators.
>>>
>>> And its a very small island, and it uses pumped storage because it
>>> has hills,
>>>
>>> Try that in Holland...
>>>
>>> And it isn't as green as you think. Dig deeper into the actual
>>> statistics
>>>
>>> "The longest it’s powered up the whole island is 25 consecutive days,
>>> before the back-up diesel engine had to step in"
>>>
>>> That is not 'for months'.
>>
>> Just google deeper and you will find the months.
>>
> No, I wont
>
>> Yes, certainly there are occasions when it doesn't work, it is early
>> days. You just can not say that conclusively "it is impossible to do".
>>
> You yourself have shown that it is impossible to do.
>
> Your example proves my case.
>
> No one has done it yet, nor its it likely they ever will, unless its a
> tiny island with lots of hydro power.
>
> It is impossible to do for most ordinary countries
>
> And the cost of that attempt was insane.
>

I have proven that it is possible. Just do it, eventually. We have to do
it to survive. I'm lucky to have no descendants.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 13:51, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-09 14:30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2024 13:10, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-07 15:29, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> Windmills and solar panels are useless for the same reason. - there is
>>>>> no storage able to meet the intermittency problem.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know why you are talking of that in this Linux group, but for
>>>> your information, we have an island that goes with renewable energy for
>>>> months, not touching the fueled generators.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/proyectos/todos-los-proyectos/transicion-
>>>> energetica/renovables/el-hierro-renovable>
>>>> <https://www.endesa.com/es/la-cara-e/energias-renovables/gorona-
>>>> viento-renovable>
>>>>
>>> But it still touches the fuelled generators.
>>>
>>> And its a very small island, and it uses pumped storage because it has
>>> hills,
>>>
>>> Try that in Holland...
>>>
>>> And it isn't as green as you think. Dig deeper into the actual statistics
>>>
>>> "The longest it’s powered up the whole island is 25 consecutive days,
>>> before the back-up diesel engine had to step in"
>>>
>>> That is not 'for months'.
>>
>> Just google deeper and you will find the months.
>>
> No, I wont
>
>> Yes, certainly there are occasions when it doesn't work, it is early days.
>> You just can not say that conclusively "it is impossible to do".
>>
> You yourself have shown that it is impossible to do.
>
> Your example proves my case.
>
> No one has done it yet, nor its it likely they ever will, unless its a tiny
> island with lots of hydro power.
>
> It is impossible to do for most ordinary countries
>
> And the cost of that attempt was insane.

This is the truth! We currently do not have the technology, so it would be
refreshing if the EU socialist nobility could stop pissing away our money.
But that's not likely to happen any time soon. I am happy that the UK
left, and I do hope that after Starmer has failed, that the UK can work to
become the financial power house of the world again.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 09/12/2024 15:35, Rich wrote:
>> So assuming the "no carbon" goal is required, we can't get/there/ from
>> /here/ without something like nuclear to handle what 'storage' claims
>> it will be able to do, in twenty plus years.
>
> Its all nonsense.
>
> I spent ages analysing all the options and nothing in the end was cheaper or
> more effective overall than nuclear power, and that wouldn't cover the
> industrial and transport uses of fossil fuels any more than 'renewables'...
>
> You can't drive a truck on batteries across America, or a container ship from
> Taiwan.
>
> Sweden is investing in new nuclear power..
>
> In the end the rising price of fossil will move us towards nuclear power
> simply because it offers a competitive cost benefit vis à vis systems of
> inordinate complexity based on intermittent renewable power.
>
> The future will be mainly nuclear, and since once you have any nuclear at all
> there is no reason to make it more expensive and less reliable and destroy
> the environment with renewable energy, no one will.
>
> Renewables aren't dead yet, but they are beginning to smell..

I agree. Nuclear is the future. There will be smaller niche cases for
solar and wind, in country side homes during the summer, or by using tax
subsidies to get some extra solar into data centers, but as you say, once
our nuclear knowledge has been rebuilt and regained, it should be
possible, in theory, to build traditional nuclear in 3-5 years (I think
south korea is doing it in 5 currently) and SMR:s will hopefully be even
faster.