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comp / comp.os.linux.advocacy / Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?

SubjectAuthor
* Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Lawrence D'Oliveiro
`* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Joel
 `* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  +* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Joel
  |`* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  | `* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Joel
  |  +* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Lawrence D'Oliveiro
  |  |`* Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Joel
  |  | `- Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Joel
  |  +- Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?chrisv
  |  `- Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Andrzej Matuch
  `- Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?Andrzej Matuch

1
Subject: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:33 UTC
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:33:29 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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Here’s a summary of the current state of play of ARM-based Windows
(actually Qualcomm-based Windows)
<https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/26/24186432/microsoft-windows-on-arm-qualcomm-copilot-plus-pcs-prism-emulator>.

Seems a few more productivity apps have gone native over the last five
years. Enough to make Windows-on-ARM a compelling value proposition?
Not really.

And what’s still missing in a big way? Games. Consider that a
Linux-based Steam Deck, using WINE to run Windows games, seems to
offer better compatibility with them than Microsoft’s own genuine
(supposedly) Windows platform. That was the last remaining market
segment where Windows (at least x86-based Windows) seemed to be
impregnable against the Linux onslaught, but even that dominance is
now crumbling.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Joel
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:42 UTC
References: 1
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From: joelcrump@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 17:42:07 -0400
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>Here’s a summary of the current state of play of ARM-based Windows
>(actually Qualcomm-based Windows)
><https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/26/24186432/microsoft-windows-on-arm-qualcomm-copilot-plus-pcs-prism-emulator>.
>
>Seems a few more productivity apps have gone native over the last five
>years. Enough to make Windows-on-ARM a compelling value proposition?
>Not really.
>
>And what’s still missing in a big way? Games. Consider that a
>Linux-based Steam Deck, using WINE to run Windows games, seems to
>offer better compatibility with them than Microsoft’s own genuine
>(supposedly) Windows platform. That was the last remaining market
>segment where Windows (at least x86-based Windows) seemed to be
>impregnable against the Linux onslaught, but even that dominance is
>now crumbling.

Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer? They're
inefficient, I'm surprised it's taking so long to move on from them,
honestly. I'm using an i5 currently, and that may serve me well for
many years to come thanks to Linux, but if I were wanting new
hardware, today, I'd at least think about going with ARM.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:41 UTC
References: 1 2
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:41:18 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 17:42:07 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?

Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Joel
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:50 UTC
References: 1 2 3
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From: joelcrump@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 19:50:30 -0400
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>
>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.

Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
emulated.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:58 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 23:58:13 -0000 (UTC)
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On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 19:50:30 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>
>>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>
> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
> emulated.

But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
such machines.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Joel
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 00:07 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!usenet.blueworldhosting.com!diablo1.usenet.blueworldhosting.com!peer03.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!s1-1.netnews.com!news-out.netnews.com!postmaster.netnews.com!us11.netnews.com!not-for-mail
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From: joelcrump@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:07:33 -0400
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>>
>>>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>>
>> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
>> emulated.
>
>But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
>such machines.

Sure they can, it's efficient, as Andrzej says battery life for
laptops, but even as a desktop user, I'd like something without the
fan noise, using less electricity. I wouldn't want to run Windows, of
course, but Linux can be booted on an ARM device, too.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Lawrence D'Oliv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:14 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: ldo@nz.invalid (Lawrence D'Oliveiro)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:14:14 -0000 (UTC)
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On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 20:07:33 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>>>
>>>>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>>>
>>> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
>>> emulated.
>>
>>But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
>>such machines.
>
> Sure they can, it's efficient ...

Only when running ARM-native code. Otherwise the x86 emulator drags
performance down. And that still applies to the vast majority of Windows
apps.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Joel
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:17 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Path: eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-3.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.netnews.com!postmaster.netnews.com!us11.netnews.com!not-for-mail
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From: joelcrump@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:17:06 -0400
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Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>>>>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>>>>
>>>>>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>>>>
>>>> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
>>>> emulated.
>>>
>>>But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
>>>such machines.
>>
>> Sure they can, it's efficient ...
>
>Only when running ARM-native code. Otherwise the x86 emulator drags
>performance down. And that still applies to the vast majority of Windows
>apps.

Read the entire post I wrote, dummy.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: chrisv
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Organization: fastusenet - www.fastusenet.org
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:19 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6
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From: chrisv@nospam.invalid (chrisv)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
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Joel wrote:

>Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>>>
>>>>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>>>
>>> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
>>> emulated.
>>
>>But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
>>such machines.
>
>Sure they can, it's efficient, as Andrzej says battery life for
>laptops, but even as a desktop user, I'd like something without the
>fan noise, using less electricity. I wouldn't want to run Windows, of
>course, but Linux can be booted on an ARM device, too.

Common, lightweight computing tasks will run on the "efficiency"
cores, consuming very little power.

--
"Comes down to I am seen as better and more honest than most in COLA"
- some thing, lying shamelessly (but no one can quote it lying)

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Joel
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 01:32 UTC
References: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
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From: joelcrump@gmail.com (Joel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 21:32:01 -0400
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Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>>>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
>>>>> emulated.
>>>>
>>>>But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
>>>>such machines.
>>>
>>> Sure they can, it's efficient ...
>>
>>Only when running ARM-native code. Otherwise the x86 emulator drags
>>performance down. And that still applies to the vast majority of Windows
>>apps.
>
>Read the entire post I wrote, dummy.

Actually, it wasn't even due to your unnecessary snipping, it's
earlier in the quoting you left in, "can be compiled for it". Either
way, comprehend first.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Andrzej Matuch
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:07 UTC
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Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
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On 2024-06-26 19:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Jun 2024 17:42:07 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>
> Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.

They're not great for battery life, but they're excellent for power.
Anyone who is interested in gaming will probably continue to use them,
at least until the ARM alternatives prove to be capable of running their
existing software.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
From: Andrzej Matuch
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Subject: Re: Is Windows-on-ARM On Its Last Legs?
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On 2024-06-26 20:07, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>>> Why would you expect Intel/AMD CPUs to last much longer?
>>>>
>>>> Certainly the Windows market is unable to move away from them.
>>>
>>> Why? They have Winblows on ARM, apps can be compiled for it or
>>> emulated.
>>
>> But Microsoft cannot offer a compelling value proposition for moving to
>> such machines.
>
>
> Sure they can, it's efficient, as Andrzej says battery life for
> laptops, but even as a desktop user, I'd like something without the
> fan noise, using less electricity. I wouldn't want to run Windows, of
> course, but Linux can be booted on an ARM device, too.

If fan noise and using less electricity are of concern, the ARMs are
wonderful. Apple has already shown, with its processors, that they can
deliver superior power to the x86-64 architecture at a fraction of the
wattage. At this point, anyone who holds onto the x86-64 platform is
just fooling himself.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

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