On 2024-06-21, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>>User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>
>
> This is not surprising, given your spew.

You have been trolled by snit Michael Glasser.

--
Charlie Glock
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms"
- Thomas Jefferson 1776

On Jun 20, 2024 at 5:51:47 PM EDT, "Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 23:15:09 +0000, Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>> On Jun 18, 2024 at 6:39:28?PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tax-irs-income-taxes-who-pays-the-most-and-least/>
>>>>
>>>> Ooopsie, CBS?
>>>> That's a libby news outlet.
>>>
>>>
>>> That is interesting information but misleading, in that it reflects
>>> billionaires' main income taxes, not necessarily all of their assets
>>> that would be untaxed, Chris A. might be pointing the finger
>>> arbitrarily at the top 1%, I don't dispute that, they aren't a
>>> fountain of revenue, but they do pay less than their fair share, by
>>> any reasonable standard. Our system isn't optimized for the working
>>> poor and below, and really much of the middle class, either.
>>
>> These facts are not "misleading". I have personally downloaded the
>> spreadsheets from irs.gov and done the math. This was around 2016 when I did
>> this.
>>
>> These figures match what I saw. The top 25% pay 90% of all income taxes.
>>
>> How is 25% of people paying 90% of all income taxes "not their fair share"?
>> That means that 75% of people are carrying just 10% of the load. Think about
>> that. Our system is actually VERY "optimized for the working poor and below,
>> and really much of the middle class". The bottom 50% are paying 2% of all
>> taxes.
>>
>> Would you like the top 25% to be paying 100% of all taxes? How is that
>> "fair"?
>>
>> This shows that "Middle Class Tax Relief" is a lie that is always promised by
>> brain dead politicians. The middle class is already paying very little.
>
> Apples and oranges. He's talking about the top 1% and you're driving the
> discussion down
> to the near middle class.

You can't talk about one without talking about the other.

> The top 1% is the topic. They do not pay their fair share of income or other
> taxes.
> Further, they wealth holdings far exceed their numbers.

The top 1% is paying almost 50% of the taxes. How is that "not their fair
share"? If "they wealth holdings far exceed their numbers" (whatever that
means) then get the tax laws changed. Meanwhile, they are STILL paying half of
the taxes.

Don't forget that the top 1% is a very small number of people compared to the
HUGE middle class which is paying less than 10% of the taxes. For the top 1%
of people (which is 1,535,899 tax returns, so maybe 2.5 million people
considering joint returns of couples) to be paying half the taxes in a country
of 340 million people looks to me that the top 1% ARE paying "their fair
share". And that pecentage has grown from 33% to almost 50% in the last 20
years.

What is your point again?

> Income inequality began in the eighties. Until then, the middle class was
> booming.

What exactly is "income inequality"? Do you think everyone should be paid the
same amount? Keep in mind that income is EARNED. It is not distributed by the
government. If a company is willing to pay a CEO 50 million dollars a year,
then good for him/her AND it is none of your (or my) GD business.

You want to make more money? Then go after it. Don't expect your McDonald's
job to support you for your entire life. You need some ambition.

On Jun 20, 2024 at 8:57:58 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>
>
> This is not surprising, given your spew.

What does that have to do with anything?

> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
> billionaires. A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.

I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew up and
got a real job.

The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think middle class
people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.

Unsourced? It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this topic:

<https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>

Do try to keep up.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>You want to make more money? Then go after it. Don't expect your McDonald's
>job to support you for your entire life. You need some ambition.

Of course, blame the poor for being who they are, that's not typical
capitalist self-righteousness, or anything.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com> wrote:
>On 2024-06-21, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>
>>>User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>
>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>
>You have been trolled by snit Michael Glasser.

Why would you think Tyrone is Snit, pray tell?

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel wrote:
> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-21, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>
>>>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>>
>>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>>
>> You have been trolled by snit Michael Glasser.
>
>
> Why would you think Tyrone is Snit, pray tell?
>
i thought snit was snit

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>
>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>
>What does that have to do with anything?

Heh.

>> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
>> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
>> billionaires. A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
>> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.
>
>I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew up and
>got a real job.
>
>The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think middle class
>people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.
>
>Unsourced? It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this topic:
>
><https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>
>Do try to keep up.

Ah, well, that's not a neutral site. It's relatively speaking fairly
right-wing. Nevertheless, my point stands, the lower classes are
paying plenty of income tax, and for that matter are paying other
taxes and fees that contribute to government revenue, it's laughable
to think that just because the upper classes pay so much, that it's
really a burden on them, they benefit the most from the first world
security big government provides, in their posh neighborhoods.

Cry me a river, Apple customer.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Jun 20, 2024 at 6:32:23 PM MST, "Joel" wrote
<f0m97jtdsckp7u2ancrpe682bsjn9l681v@4ax.com>:

> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-21, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>
>>>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>>
>>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>>
>> You have been trolled by snit Michael Glasser.
>
>
> Why would you think Tyrone is Snit, pray tell?

Carroll is just trying to muddy the waters. There is little doubt Glock is
Carroll.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Jun 20, 2024 at 6:32:23 PM MST, "Joel" wrote
<f0m97jtdsckp7u2ancrpe682bsjn9l681v@4ax.com>:

> Charlie Glock <"Charlie Glock"@localhost.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-21, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>
>>>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>>
>>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>>
>> You have been trolled by snit Michael Glasser.
>
>
> Why would you think Tyrone is Snit, pray tell?

To add to it, Carroll is trying to hide the fact he has been busted lying
again. Repeatedly lying. Here are some examples:

Carroll <utf3ms$1j7f1$3@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org>:
-----
I suspect he's on some kind of work release program over
the stalking issue.
...
Either the cops showed up and 'witnessed' him within
'x feet' of her or she had a video of him being
'obviously too close' for the terms of the restraining
order.
-----

Carroll <utfch1$1lfm5$1@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org>:
-----
It's not an "analysis", Rain Man, it's just a suspicion...
but the facts of an arrest like you had are what they are.
IOW, your wife could not have simply called and said:
'He's here right now! Come quickly!'. If they got there
and you're not there, you're not getting booked unless
she, or someone, has evidence you were there at the time
she alleged you were.
-----

Carroll <utf3ms$1j7f1$3@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org>:
-----
None of that happens on a 'say so', evidence has to be
involved. Either the cops showed up and 'witnessed' him
within 'x feet' of her or she had a video of him being
'obviously too close' for the terms of the restraining
order.
-----

Carroll <uthq9g$2amd8$7@fretwizzer.eternal-september.org>:
-----
And you claimed I lied, over a suspicion. Worse, you
called a public record a "claimed record".
-----

But Carroll cannot find where these "public records" exist. He made it up.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Tyrone wrote:

>I have no gripe against any class.

Anyone who gets off their ass and goes to work every day gets my
respect.

>I used to be poor, but then I grew up and got a real job.

Me too. I've lived in a trailor house. I've been homeless. I got my
shit together in my early 20's, however.

--
'you cannot, by definition, do "serious work" with Linux. It only has
1% or less market share.' - Ray Dopez

chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Tyrone wrote:
>
>>I have no gripe against any class.
>
> Anyone who gets off their ass and goes to work every day gets my
> respect.
>
>>I used to be poor, but then I grew up and got a real job.
>
> Me too. I've lived in a trailor house. I've been homeless. I got my
> shit together in my early 20's, however.

I grew up poor in rural Illinois. But my (divorced) father would treat us
to (compensatory?) zoo and museum visits, science-fiction paperbacks,
telescopes, microscopes... We even managed to get a set of Worldbook
Encyclopedia.

And look at me now! Old, pudgy, retired, and tinkering endlessly on laptops.

The Circle of Life! :-D

--
And when I die, don't bury me at all.
Just pickle my bones in alcohol.
-- R.A. Lafferty

On 21/06/2024 12:04, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Tyrone wrote:
>>
>>> I have no gripe against any class.
>>
>> Anyone who gets off their ass and goes to work every day gets my
>> respect.
>>
>>> I used to be poor, but then I grew up and got a real job.
>>
>> Me too. I've lived in a trailor house. I've been homeless. I got my
>> shit together in my early 20's, however.
>
> I grew up poor in rural Illinois. But my (divorced) father would treat us
> to (compensatory?) zoo and museum visits, science-fiction paperbacks,
> telescopes, microscopes... We even managed to get a set of Worldbook
> Encyclopedia.
>
> And look at me now! Old, pudgy, retired, and tinkering endlessly on laptops.
>
> The Circle of Life! :-D

Indeed! 🙂

Here ya go!
https://i.ibb.co/d74mPWt/cid-62-C2583-C-7-EA3-44-AD-8-D1-D-99-F54-B0-EE07-E.jpg

So very true!

On 6/20/24 10:04 PM, Joel wrote:
> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
> ...
>>> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
>>> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
>>> billionaires. A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
>>> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.
>>
>> I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew up and
>> got a real job.
>>
>> The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think middle class
>> people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.
>>
>> Unsourced? It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this topic:
>>
>> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>>
>> Do try to keep up.
>
>
> Ah, well, that's not a neutral site. It's relatively speaking fairly
> right-wing. Nevertheless, my point stands, the lower classes are
> paying plenty of income tax, and for that matter are paying other
> taxes and fees that contribute to government revenue, it's laughable
> to think that just because the upper classes pay so much, that it's
> really a burden on them, they benefit the most from the first world
> security big government provides, in their posh neighborhoods.
>

This is really a key point here that these sorts of biased sources are
choosing to ignore: there's far more taxes than merely Income Tax.

An honestly holistic approach will look at all government-sourced
expenses, regardless of what they're called ("fee", "surcharge", etc).

An obvious example are State level sales taxes, but there's also local
property taxes (and let's not forget how there's 1%'ers who get their
private estate re-zoned as "farmland" or whatnot to receive lower tax
rates per acre), but don't stop just there: go read your utility bills,
internet & phone plans, etc for stuff that's hidden there.

Case in point:

"Taxes, fees, and government surcharges on wireless consumers increased
again in 2020, jumping from 21.7 percent to 22.6 percent of a customer’s
bill.[1]"

<https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/wireless-taxes-cell-phone-tax-rates-by-state-2020/>

Plus even when one is 'frugal' because of income, there's other gotchas
embedded in the system that make lower incomes pay more. For example,
my local electrical services rates are regressive: the first 134KWH per
month is charged a rate of 12.5 cents, but use more than 750KWH and the
rate is only 3.1 cents .. a 75% reduction.

TL;DR:
be honest and make comparisons based on total taxes, not just by
cherrypicking one individual tax within the whole.

-hh

On 21/06/2024 13:26, -hh wrote:
> On 6/20/24 10:04 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
>>>> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
>>>> billionaires.  A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
>>>> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.
>>>
>>> I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew
>>> up and
>>> got a real job.
>>>
>>> The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think
>>> middle class
>>> people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.
>>>
>>> Unsourced?  It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this
>>> topic:
>>>
>>> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>>>
>>> Do try to keep up.
>>
>>
>> Ah, well, that's not a neutral site.  It's relatively speaking fairly
>> right-wing.  Nevertheless, my point stands, the lower classes are
>> paying plenty of income tax, and for that matter are paying other
>> taxes and fees that contribute to government revenue, it's laughable
>> to think that just because the upper classes pay so much, that it's
>> really a burden on them, they benefit the most from the first world
>> security big government provides, in their posh neighborhoods.
>>
>
> This is really a key point here that these sorts of biased sources are
> choosing to ignore:  there's far more taxes than merely Income Tax.
>
> An honestly holistic approach will look at all government-sourced
> expenses, regardless of what they're called ("fee", "surcharge", etc).
>
> An obvious example are State level sales taxes, but there's also local
> property taxes (and let's not forget how there's 1%'ers who get their
> private estate re-zoned as "farmland" or whatnot to receive lower tax
> rates per acre), but don't stop just there:  go read your utility bills,
> internet & phone plans, etc for stuff that's hidden there.
>
> Case in point:
>
> "Taxes, fees, and government surcharges on wireless consumers increased
> again in 2020, jumping from 21.7 percent to 22.6 percent of a customer’s
> bill.[1]"
>
> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/wireless-taxes-cell-phone-tax-rates-by-state-2020/>
>
> Plus even when one is 'frugal' because of income, there's other gotchas
> embedded in the system that make lower incomes pay more.  For example,
> my local electrical services rates are regressive:  the first 134KWH per
> month is charged a rate of 12.5 cents, but use more than 750KWH and the
> rate is only 3.1 cents .. a 75% reduction.
>
>
> TL;DR:
> be honest and make comparisons based on total taxes, not just by
> cherrypicking one individual tax within the whole.
>
>
> -hh

A great answer, '-hh'! 🙂

The WHOLE truth is always the best!

On Jun 20, 2024 at 10:04:38 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>>>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>>
>>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>>
>> What does that have to do with anything?
>
>
> Heh.
>
>
>>> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
>>> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
>>> billionaires. A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
>>> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.
>>
>> I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew up and
>> got a real job.
>>
>> The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think middle class
>> people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.
>>
>> Unsourced? It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this topic:
>>
>> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>>
>> Do try to keep up.
>
>
> Ah, well, that's not a neutral site. It's relatively speaking fairly
> right-wing. Nevertheless, my point stands, the lower classes are
> paying plenty of income tax, and for that matter are paying other
> taxes and fees that contribute to government revenue, it's laughable
> to think that just because the upper classes pay so much, that it's
> really a burden on them, they benefit the most from the first world
> security big government provides, in their posh neighborhoods.
>
> Cry me a river, Apple customer.

That you want to argue your beliefs against facts is pathetic. The top 1% IS
"paying their fair share". The top 1% is - by definition - around 3 million
people in a country of 340 million.

And since when are facts "right wing"? Cry me a river, Linux Loser. If you
think the bottom 50% paying 2% of taxes is "the lower classes are paying
plenty of income tax" then you are insane. Which only makes sense for someone
who thinks he is Jesus.

I am done arguing with you, dipshit. You can get these raw numbers from
irs.gov. I have done that. This site just compiles them into nice, easy to
read charts and graphs.

On Jun 20, 2024 at 9:41:48 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>
>> You want to make more money? Then go after it. Don't expect your McDonald's
>> job to support you for your entire life. You need some ambition.
>
>
> Of course, blame the poor for being who they are, that's not typical
> capitalist self-righteousness, or anything.

Except that I did not blame the poor for anything. I used to be poor. If you
have no ambitions in life, you will remain poor. You can't just let life
happen to you. You have to take control of your life.

OTOH you blaming the rich for being who they are (and falsely accusing them of
"not paying their fair share") IS typical socialist self-righteousness.

On Jun 21, 2024 at 8:26:39 AM EDT, "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
wrote:

> On 6/20/24 10:04 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
>>>> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
>>>> billionaires. A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
>>>> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.
>>>
>>> I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew up and
>>> got a real job.
>>>
>>> The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think middle class
>>> people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.
>>>
>>> Unsourced? It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this topic:
>>>
>>> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>>>
>>> Do try to keep up.
>>
>>
>> Ah, well, that's not a neutral site. It's relatively speaking fairly
>> right-wing. Nevertheless, my point stands, the lower classes are
>> paying plenty of income tax, and for that matter are paying other
>> taxes and fees that contribute to government revenue, it's laughable
>> to think that just because the upper classes pay so much, that it's
>> really a burden on them, they benefit the most from the first world
>> security big government provides, in their posh neighborhoods.
>>
>
> This is really a key point here that these sorts of biased sources are
> choosing to ignore: there's far more taxes than merely Income Tax.

True, except the linked site is hardly "biased".

> An honestly holistic approach will look at all government-sourced
> expenses, regardless of what they're called ("fee", "surcharge", etc).
>
> An obvious example are State level sales taxes, but there's also local
> property taxes (and let's not forget how there's 1%'ers who get their
> private estate re-zoned as "farmland" or whatnot to receive lower tax
> rates per acre), but don't stop just there: go read your utility bills,
> internet & phone plans, etc for stuff that's hidden there.

And only poor people have utility bills and only poor people pay state taxes?
And where is your evidence of "and let's not forget how there's 1%'ers who
get their private estate re-zoned as "farmland" or whatnot to receive lower
tax rates per acre"?

> Case in point:
>
> "Taxes, fees, and government surcharges on wireless consumers increased
> again in 2020, jumping from 21.7 percent to 22.6 percent of a customer’s
> bill.[1]"

And only poor people have phones? What's your point? Everyone with a phone is
paying these "Taxes, fees, and government surcharges".

> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/wireless-taxes-cell-phone-tax-rates-by-state-2020/>
>
> Plus even when one is 'frugal' because of income, there's other gotchas
> embedded in the system that make lower incomes pay more. For example,
> my local electrical services rates are regressive: the first 134KWH per
> month is charged a rate of 12.5 cents, but use more than 750KWH and the
> rate is only 3.1 cents .. a 75% reduction.
>
>
> TL;DR:
> be honest and make comparisons based on total taxes, not just by
> cherrypicking one individual tax within the whole.

So your example of your local electric bill is not "cherry picking one
individual tax within the whole"? And BTW where is your evidence of this
claim?

On Jun 21, 2024 at 8:26:39 AM EDT, "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
wrote:

>>> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>>>
>>> Do try to keep up.
>>
>>
>> Ah, well, that's not a neutral site. It's relatively speaking fairly
>> right-wing.

Why does it need to be "right wing"? Do you think there are no wealthy left
wing people? What about Hollywood actors/movie stars? How many of them are
"right wing" these days?

What about Bernie "I am a socialist" Sanders? This guy is as left wing as you
can get, yet he is a millionaire with 3 houses.

The fact is, there are LOTS of wealthy Democrats in the U.S. Being wealthy has
no relation to one's politics.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>[...] since when are facts "right wing"? Cry me a river, Linux Loser. If you
>think the bottom 50% paying 2% of taxes is "the lower classes are paying
>plenty of income tax" then you are insane. Which only makes sense for someone
>who thinks he is Jesus.
>
>I am done arguing with you, dipshit. You can get these raw numbers from
>irs.gov. I have done that. This site just compiles them into nice, easy to
>read charts and graphs.

You are an elitist, it is very clear, Apple customer. My Linux
computer *could* still be running Windows, but I *choose* something
better.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>>> You want to make more money? Then go after it. Don't expect your McDonald's
>>> job to support you for your entire life. You need some ambition.
>>
>> Of course, blame the poor for being who they are, that's not typical
>> capitalist self-righteousness, or anything.
>
>Except that I did not blame the poor for anything. I used to be poor. If you
>have no ambitions in life, you will remain poor. You can't just let life
>happen to you. You have to take control of your life.
>
>OTOH you blaming the rich for being who they are (and falsely accusing them of
>"not paying their fair share") IS typical socialist self-righteousness.

Oh really, and if they were paying their fair share, why the need for
all the nickel and dime fees on the poor, and the damn lotteries? Why
do we have a deficit?

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

David Brooks wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 21/06/2024 12:04, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> chrisv wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> Tyrone wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have no gripe against any class.
>>>
>>> Anyone who gets off their ass and goes to work every day gets my
>>> respect.
>>>
>>>> I used to be poor, but then I grew up and got a real job.
>>>
>>> Me too. I've lived in a trailor house. I've been homeless. I got my
>>> shit together in my early 20's, however.
>>
>> I grew up poor in rural Illinois. But my (divorced) father would treat us
>> to (compensatory?) zoo and museum visits, science-fiction paperbacks,
>> telescopes, microscopes... We even managed to get a set of Worldbook
>> Encyclopedia.
>>
>> And look at me now! Old, pudgy, retired, and tinkering endlessly on laptops.
>>
>> The Circle of Life! :-D
>
> Indeed! 🙂
>
> Here ya go!
> https://i.ibb.co/d74mPWt/cid-62-C2583-C-7-EA3-44-AD-8-D1-D-99-F54-B0-EE07-E.jpg
>
> So very true!

That pic leaves out (at least in my case) and additional bicycling frame as
I continue to ride after age 60. It also leaves out my two stints with a walker
thanks to hip replacements thanks to tons of pavement running, soccer, and
free training.

Anyway, I'll be 67 soon and happy to still be physically acive, in spite of my
pudge and my computer addiction.

--
Little Willy mixed his gum
With bits of Baby's cerebrum.
And Papa's blood for Juicy Fruit.
And Mama said "Willy don't doit!"
-- RA Lafferty

-hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> TL;DR:
> be honest and make comparisons based on total taxes, not just by
> cherrypicking one individual tax within the whole.

+1

Still, recall that EXPOTUSSFB45 at one time paid more taxes to Chy-na
than to the U.S.

--
You will have long and healthy life.

On 21/06/2024 20:21, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> -hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> TL;DR:
>> be honest and make comparisons based on total taxes, not just by
>> cherrypicking one individual tax within the whole.
>
> +1
>
> Still, recall that EXPOTUSSFB45 at one time paid more taxes to Chy-na
> than to the U.S.

Are you referring to Ex-POTUS Donald Trump?

Is FB45 a bit generic, like Hoover = Vacuum Cleaner?

On Jun 21, 2024 at 6:04:47 AM MST, "Tyrone" wrote
<j3ydnfm0K5ry5-j7nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@supernews.com>:

> On Jun 20, 2024 at 10:04:38 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>
>>>>> User-Agent: Usenapp for MacOS
>>>>
>>>> This is not surprising, given your spew.
>>>
>>> What does that have to do with anything?
>>
>>
>> Heh.
>>
>>
>>>> Let's say I believe your unsourced claims of the numbers, the top 25%
>>>> includes people who are middle class, higher up to be sure, but not
>>>> billionaires. A moron like you, buying Apple hardware, would likely
>>>> fit in with that class, and have some gripe about the lower classes.
>>>
>>> I have no gripe against any class. I used to be poor, but then I grew up and
>>> got a real job.
>>>
>>> The top 25% does not include the middle class, unless you think middle class
>>> people are paying $50,963 in taxes every year.
>>>
>>> Unsourced? It is all here, which is in the 3rd or 4th post in this topic:
>>>
>>> <https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/latest-federal-income-tax-data-2024/>
>>>
>>> Do try to keep up.
>>
>>
>> Ah, well, that's not a neutral site. It's relatively speaking fairly
>> right-wing. Nevertheless, my point stands, the lower classes are
>> paying plenty of income tax, and for that matter are paying other
>> taxes and fees that contribute to government revenue, it's laughable
>> to think that just because the upper classes pay so much, that it's
>> really a burden on them, they benefit the most from the first world
>> security big government provides, in their posh neighborhoods.
>>
>> Cry me a river, Apple customer.
>
> That you want to argue your beliefs against facts is pathetic. The top 1% IS
> "paying their fair share". The top 1% is - by definition - around 3 million
> people in a country of 340 million.
>
> And since when are facts "right wing"? Cry me a river, Linux Loser. If you
> think the bottom 50% paying 2% of taxes is "the lower classes are paying
> plenty of income tax" then you are insane. Which only makes sense for someone
> who thinks he is Jesus.
>
> I am done arguing with you, dipshit. You can get these raw numbers from
> irs.gov. I have done that. This site just compiles them into nice, easy to
> read charts and graphs.

They pay about the same percentage in taxes (or less), not including the money
they hide. Which is often a lot. No reason they could not pay a higher
percentage in taxes. No reason they SHOULD not.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> I've lived in a trailor house. I've been homeless. I got my
>> shit together in my early 20's, however.
>
>I grew up poor in rural Illinois. But my (divorced) father would treat us
>to (compensatory?) zoo and museum visits, science-fiction paperbacks,
>telescopes, microscopes... We even managed to get a set of Worldbook
>Encyclopedia.

Oh, my parents weren't poor. We had a house, and the Worldbooks, too!

I was poor, once I left home, which I did when I turned 18. I was a
mess, and could no longer live with my dad.

>And look at me now! Old, pudgy, retired, and tinkering endlessly on laptops.

I'm doing OK too. Thank God for computers. Even when I was a
teenaged drug-abusing fsckup, I loved computers and knew that I would
eventually make my living with them.