Python is taking the computing world by storm, because the majority of the
computing world are totally incompetent idiots.

Aside: Does anyone see a Microslop connection? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

While updating my fantastic Gentoo machines I notice these funny things:

hatch-fancy-pypi-readme (https://pypi.org/project/hatch-fancy-pypi-readme/)

pluggy (https://pluggy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/)

calver (https://github.com/di/calver/)

Holy shish kabob! Junk Python requires a thousand auxiliary modules
just to output a single char! (And millions more to do anything remotely
worthwhile.)

The inescapable conclusion:

Python absolutely requires a humongous mountain of support functions to
accomplish its seeming magical ease, and this mountain is conveniently
hidden from the incompetent Python user who will drool in awe over the
"effortless" capability.

The unhidden cost, however, is extreme sluggishness and sluggishness
violates the very concept of digital computing.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

I can write my name in 2 seconds, but with Python it would require 20
minutes -- not including the installation of appropriate modules.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> wrote:

>Python is taking the computing world by storm, because the majority of the
>computing world are totally incompetent idiots.
>
>Aside: Does anyone see a Microslop connection? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
>While updating my fantastic Gentoo machines I notice these funny things:
>
>hatch-fancy-pypi-readme (https://pypi.org/project/hatch-fancy-pypi-readme/)
>
>pluggy (https://pluggy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/)
>
>calver (https://github.com/di/calver/)
>
>
>Holy shish kabob! Junk Python requires a thousand auxiliary modules
>just to output a single char! (And millions more to do anything remotely
>worthwhile.)
>
>The inescapable conclusion:
>
>Python absolutely requires a humongous mountain of support functions to
>accomplish its seeming magical ease, and this mountain is conveniently
>hidden from the incompetent Python user who will drool in awe over the
>"effortless" capability.
>
>The unhidden cost, however, is extreme sluggishness and sluggishness
>violates the very concept of digital computing.
>
>Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
>I can write my name in 2 seconds, but with Python it would require 20
>minutes -- not including the installation of appropriate modules.
>
>Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little
I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
didn't explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:00:41 +0000, Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> wrote in
<17d716103c089ab3$7951$675878$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>:

> Python

Is essential for your distro, distro lackey.

--
-v

vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:00:41 +0000, Diego Garcia <dg@chaos.rocks> wrote in
><17d716103c089ab3$7951$675878$802601b3@news.usenetexpress.com>:
>
>> Python
>
>Is essential for your distro, distro lackey.

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the comparison between an utterly
raw Linux system, compiled/built by the user, to the Gentoo
experience. Not that I'm going to get rid of Mint, for me the GUI-
centric vibe is a feature, but I just wonder what it would take to
start from nothing.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 6/8/2024 1:00 PM, Lameass Larry Piet wrote:

> Python is taking

has taken

> the computing world by storm, because the majority of the
> computing world are totally incompetent idiots.

No need to whine and lie about others, or about Python. Just accept the
fact that you can't write code - in ANY language - to a high enough
standard to be employed as a programmer.

You have other strengths:
* you're one of the Linux Configurator Kings of cola
* you make Girl Scouts think they can beat up grown men
* you can sip wine on a treadmill in a speedo without spilling it

If you were African you'd get my vote for the new comp.os.linux.advocacy
"Nosebone Award".

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:00:41 +0000, Diego Garcia wrote:

> Holy shish kabob! Junk Python requires a thousand auxiliary modules
> just to output a single char! (And millions more to do anything
> remotely worthwhile.)

Have you looked through /usr/lib lately?

DFS wrote:
> On 6/8/2024 1:00 PM, Lameass Larry Piet wrote:
>
>> Python is taking
>
> has taken
>
>
>
>> the computing world by storm, because the majority of the
>> computing world are totally incompetent idiots.
>
>
> No need to whine and lie about others, or about Python.  Just accept the
> fact that you can't write code - in ANY language - to a high enough
> standard to be employed as a programmer.
>
> You have other strengths:
>  * you're one of the Linux Configurator Kings of cola
>  * you make Girl Scouts think they can beat up grown men
>  * you can sip wine on a treadmill in a speedo without spilling it
>
> If you were African you'd get my vote for the new comp.os.linux.advocacy
> "Nosebone Award".
>
yea but who cares what you would do

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 13:19:49 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little I've
> seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I didn't
> explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.

You should dig a little deeper.

On 6/8/2024 1:19 PM, Joel wrote:

> What little I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
> didn't explore further.

No need to stay ignorant like Feeb.

https://www.python.org/doc/
https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
https://pypi.org/search/

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>> What little I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>> didn't explore further.
>
>No need to stay ignorant like Feeb.
>
>
>https://www.python.org/doc/
>https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
>https://pypi.org/search/

I don't know what you would expect to do with it.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little I've
>> seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I didn't
>> explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.
>
>You should dig a little deeper.

To do what?

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 8 Jun 2024 18:53:16 GMT, rbowman wrote:

>
> Have you looked through /usr/lib lately?
>

Have you looked at your crotch lately?

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 15:02:53 -0400, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little
>>> I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>>> didn't explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.
>>
>>You should dig a little deeper.
>
>
> To do what?

I have no idea what you want to do with a computer. Do you do data
analysis? Python with pandas, numpy, and related modules is overtaking R
in that field. The python implementations are usually faster than R which
says something about R's lack of performance.

Machine learning? PyTorch and TensorFlow offer two approaches. Create a
desktop GUI applcation? I prefer Pyside6, which is a Qt binding, but there
are other alternatives including Tkinter. Web application? Django, Flask,
and FastAPI offer different approaches and degrees of opinionation. Work
with microcontrollers using the RP2040 chip. MicroPython and CircuitPython
make rapid development possible. Like comics? I have a script that gets
the ones I'm interested in from gocomics. Music? I've got one that
queries the itunes data base for artist or song information. Databases?
Pick your poison.

So, what do you want to do? Of course you can do all of the above with C,
C++, or another language but you may be writing more code and doing more
debugging. If the Python prototype is too slow you can rewrite it. For
example I did the itunes thing in both Python and C#.NET to test the .NET
SDK on Linux.

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 15:03:34 -0400, Joel wrote:

> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>>> What little I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess
>>> what, I didn't explore further.
>>
>>No need to stay ignorant like Feeb.
>>
>>
>>https://www.python.org/doc/ https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
>>https://pypi.org/search/
>
>
> I don't know what you would expect to do with it.

What do you expect to do with any programming language? Or don't you
program?

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>>>> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little
>>>> I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>>>> didn't explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.
>>>
>>>You should dig a little deeper.
>>
>> To do what?
>
>I have no idea what you want to do with a computer. Do you do data
>analysis? Python with pandas, numpy, and related modules is overtaking R
>in that field. The python implementations are usually faster than R which
>says something about R's lack of performance.
>
>Machine learning? PyTorch and TensorFlow offer two approaches. Create a
>desktop GUI applcation? I prefer Pyside6, which is a Qt binding, but there
>are other alternatives including Tkinter. Web application? Django, Flask,
>and FastAPI offer different approaches and degrees of opinionation. Work
>with microcontrollers using the RP2040 chip. MicroPython and CircuitPython
>make rapid development possible. Like comics? I have a script that gets
>the ones I'm interested in from gocomics. Music? I've got one that
>queries the itunes data base for artist or song information. Databases?
>Pick your poison.
>
>So, what do you want to do? Of course you can do all of the above with C,
>C++, or another language but you may be writing more code and doing more
>debugging. If the Python prototype is too slow you can rewrite it. For
>example I did the itunes thing in both Python and C#.NET to test the .NET
>SDK on Linux.

I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:32:14 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
<2ej96j1mbvgiok4q5c57vdlo94itpfu5dt@4ax.com>:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little
>>>>> I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>>>>> didn't explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.
>>>>
>>>>You should dig a little deeper.
>>>
>>> To do what?
>>
>>I have no idea what you want to do with a computer. Do you do data
>>analysis? Python with pandas, numpy, and related modules is overtaking R
>>in that field. The python implementations are usually faster than R which
>>says something about R's lack of performance.
>>
>>Machine learning? PyTorch and TensorFlow offer two approaches. Create a
>>desktop GUI applcation? I prefer Pyside6, which is a Qt binding, but there
>>are other alternatives including Tkinter. Web application? Django, Flask,
>>and FastAPI offer different approaches and degrees of opinionation. Work
>>with microcontrollers using the RP2040 chip. MicroPython and CircuitPython
>>make rapid development possible. Like comics? I have a script that gets
>>the ones I'm interested in from gocomics. Music? I've got one that
>>queries the itunes data base for artist or song information. Databases?
>>Pick your poison.
>>
>>So, what do you want to do? Of course you can do all of the above with C,
>>C++, or another language but you may be writing more code and doing more
>>debugging. If the Python prototype is too slow you can rewrite it. For
>>example I did the itunes thing in both Python and C#.NET to test the .NET
>>SDK on Linux.
>
>
> I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.

My go-to language has always been perl, but I use
C when I need performance...or very strict security,
like with a setuid wrapper.

Python is filling the niche that perl had before it
kind of stagnated[*]. If I want to slurp in a huge json
file and analyze it, I'd probably write that in perl (and
I have, in one case).

[*] Or rather, took off into the weeds...

I asked chatGPT to write a "quine" in python recently,
and found it extremely easy to improve on the answer it
gave me:

$ cat quine.py
#!/usr/bin/python3

with open(__file__, 'r') as file:
print(file.read())
- -%<- -

--
-v

vallor wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:32:14 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
> <2ej96j1mbvgiok4q5c57vdlo94itpfu5dt@4ax.com>:
>
>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little
>>>>>> I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>>>>>> didn't explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should dig a little deeper.
>>>>
>>>> To do what?
>>>
>>> I have no idea what you want to do with a computer. Do you do data
>>> analysis? Python with pandas, numpy, and related modules is overtaking R
>>> in that field. The python implementations are usually faster than R which
>>> says something about R's lack of performance.
>>>
>>> Machine learning? PyTorch and TensorFlow offer two approaches. Create a
>>> desktop GUI applcation? I prefer Pyside6, which is a Qt binding, but there
>>> are other alternatives including Tkinter. Web application? Django, Flask,
>>> and FastAPI offer different approaches and degrees of opinionation. Work
>>> with microcontrollers using the RP2040 chip. MicroPython and CircuitPython
>>> make rapid development possible. Like comics? I have a script that gets
>>> the ones I'm interested in from gocomics. Music? I've got one that
>>> queries the itunes data base for artist or song information. Databases?
>>> Pick your poison.
>>>
>>> So, what do you want to do? Of course you can do all of the above with C,
>>> C++, or another language but you may be writing more code and doing more
>>> debugging. If the Python prototype is too slow you can rewrite it. For
>>> example I did the itunes thing in both Python and C#.NET to test the .NET
>>> SDK on Linux.
>>
>>
>> I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.
>
> My go-to language has always been perl, but I use
> C when I need performance...or very strict security,
> like with a setuid wrapper.
>
> Python is filling the niche that perl had before it
> kind of stagnated[*]. If I want to slurp in a huge json
> file and analyze it, I'd probably write that in perl (and
> I have, in one case).
>
> [*] Or rather, took off into the weeds...
>
> I asked chatGPT to write a "quine" in python recently,
> and found it extremely easy to improve on the answer it
> gave me:
>
> $ cat quine.py
> #!/usr/bin/python3
>
> with open(__file__, 'r') as file:
> print(file.read())
> - -%<- -
>
it's me it's me

On Sat, 8 Jun 2024 14:51:35 -0700, % <pursent100@gmail.com> wrote in
<37icnX3evff1T_n7nZ2dnZfqn_cAAAAA@giganews.com>:

> vallor wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:32:14 -0400, Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
>> <2ej96j1mbvgiok4q5c57vdlo94itpfu5dt@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Free hint: don't use something you're not into using. What little
>>>>>>> I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>>>>>>> didn't explore further. Relax, smoke a doobie, dude.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You should dig a little deeper.
>>>>>
>>>>> To do what?
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea what you want to do with a computer. Do you do data
>>>> analysis? Python with pandas, numpy, and related modules is overtaking R
>>>> in that field. The python implementations are usually faster than R which
>>>> says something about R's lack of performance.
>>>>
>>>> Machine learning? PyTorch and TensorFlow offer two approaches. Create a
>>>> desktop GUI applcation? I prefer Pyside6, which is a Qt binding, but there
>>>> are other alternatives including Tkinter. Web application? Django, Flask,
>>>> and FastAPI offer different approaches and degrees of opinionation. Work
>>>> with microcontrollers using the RP2040 chip. MicroPython and CircuitPython
>>>> make rapid development possible. Like comics? I have a script that gets
>>>> the ones I'm interested in from gocomics. Music? I've got one that
>>>> queries the itunes data base for artist or song information. Databases?
>>>> Pick your poison.
>>>>
>>>> So, what do you want to do? Of course you can do all of the above with C,
>>>> C++, or another language but you may be writing more code and doing more
>>>> debugging. If the Python prototype is too slow you can rewrite it. For
>>>> example I did the itunes thing in both Python and C#.NET to test the .NET
>>>> SDK on Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.
>>
>> My go-to language has always been perl, but I use
>> C when I need performance...or very strict security,
>> like with a setuid wrapper.
>>
>> Python is filling the niche that perl had before it
>> kind of stagnated[*]. If I want to slurp in a huge json
>> file and analyze it, I'd probably write that in perl (and
>> I have, in one case).
>>
>> [*] Or rather, took off into the weeds...
>>
>> I asked chatGPT to write a "quine" in python recently,
>> and found it extremely easy to improve on the answer it
>> gave me:
>>
>> $ cat quine.py
>> #!/usr/bin/python3
>>
>> with open(__file__, 'r') as file:
>> print(file.read())
>> - -%<- -
>>
> it's me it's me

I can see it's you...

Are you going to run Linux Mint on your new whiz-bang
computer?

(We both know someone in another 'froup that uses Ubuntu Linux...
a veritable Linux grandma!)

--
-v

On 6/8/2024 3:03 PM, Joel wrote:
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>>> What little I've seen of Python seemed like a child's toy, but guess what, I
>>> didn't explore further.
>>
>> No need to stay ignorant like Feeb.
>>
>>
>> https://www.python.org/doc/
>> https://github.com/vinta/awesome-python
>> https://pypi.org/search/
>
>
> I don't know what you would expect to do with it.

just about anything:

Cracking Codes with Python
Data Analysis and Visualization Using Python
Data Structures and Algorithms in Python
Derivatives Analytics with Python
Digital Signal Processing with Python
Mastering Python Networking
Mastering Python Regular Expressions
Modern PyQt GUI Apps
Natural Language Processing With Python
Numerical Methods in Engineering with Python
Practical Machine Learning with Python
Programming Computer Vision with Python
Python Database API Specification
Python Scripting for Computational Science
Python for Bioinformatics
Scientific Programming with Python
Web Scraping with Python

On 6/8/2024 2:54 PM, % wrote:
> DFS wrote:
>>
> yea but who cares what you would do

You a jigaboo, boy?

On 6/8/2024 5:32 PM, Joel wrote:

> I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.

I hope you're not gonna pull a Feeb and claim you're a C guru that can
'move the Earth', but refuse to show ANY decent code, then make lame
excuses like "I have other fish to fry".

1) write your own C to sort these 3 names (by last then first):

William Thomas
Zachary Jones
Jim Thomas

2) write your own C to count the words in:

"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country."

3) write your own C to calc the mean, median and mode of:

1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8,9

Why is it I have a VERY strong feeling you and Feeb and C are about to
be pwned by python?

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:32:14 -0400, Joel wrote:

> I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.

You can do anything in C or, ultimately, assembler. After using C for
forty years or more I like to learn new things. I've used Python for about
20 years, mostly for ArcGIS scripting, but wanted to dig into it at a
deeper level.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>> I can't imagine I'd need anything beyond C.
>
>I hope you're not gonna pull a Feeb and claim you're a C guru that can
>'move the Earth', but refuse to show ANY decent code, then make lame
>excuses like "I have other fish to fry".
>
>
>1) write your own C to sort these 3 names (by last then first):
>
>William Thomas
>Zachary Jones
>Jim Thomas
>
>
>2) write your own C to count the words in:
>
>"Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country."
>
>
>3) write your own C to calc the mean, median and mode of:
>
>1,2,3,4,5,5,6,7,8,9
>
>
>
>Why is it I have a VERY strong feeling you and Feeb and C are about to
>be pwned by python?

What purpose does coding that serve? I can code, I choose not to
because everything's already been coded, by someone else.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 17:00:41 +0000, Diego Garcia wrote:

> While updating my fantastic Gentoo machines I notice these funny things:
>
> hatch-fancy-pypi-readme
> (https://pypi.org/project/hatch-fancy-pypi-readme/)
>
> pluggy (https://pluggy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/)
>
> calver (https://github.com/di/calver/)
>
> Holy shish kabob! Junk Python requires a thousand auxiliary modules
> just to output a single char!

My Python 3.11 installation has pulled in pluggy (needed for pytest), but
not python3-hatch-fancy-pypi-readme, and the Debian repos don’t even know
about calver.

There’s two data points! One, two!

Anybody for a third? Let’s make it one, two, three! Ha-’a-’a-’a-’a-’a!

On Sat, 08 Jun 2024 13:49:45 -0400, Joel wrote:

> ... I just wonder what it would take to start from nothing.

One way to find out: <https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/>.