Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.

<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>

I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.

<https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>

Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus

<https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>

On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>
> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>
><https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>
> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>
><https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>

Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.

I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
Linux issues.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>
>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>
>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>
> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>
> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
> Linux issues.
>
" BINGO "

On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 01:44:42 -0000 (UTC), RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com>
wrote in <v3r4a9$1airq$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>
>><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>
>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>
>><https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>
>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>
>><https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>
> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to
> be a game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>
> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any
> stability problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be
> using Linux. But I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the
> key to his (and your)
> Linux issues.

I glanced at the videos, saw it was Linus, decided I didn't
need to see any more.

I play a small amount of Windows games on Linux, and those work
fine through SteamPlay proton.

I will say I ran across some cruftiness today. I installed
Plasma and poked around in that desktop for a while, configuring
it the way I liked it. I found elements that I couldn't configure
that I can in xfce4, so I finally logged out and logged back in
to xfwm.

There, in xfce4, it was using Plasma's notification popups. It took
me a few minutes to revert it, basically by uninstalling Plasma
desktop and rebooting.

--
-v

On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 15:35:09 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
in <R538O.39349$Inzb.35083@fx13.iad>:

> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>
> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>
> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>
> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>
> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>

So here is the actual "part 1":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M

I've see this. Linus hoses X11 on Pop!_OS, so he goes
with Manjaro.

The other guy has much better luck with Linux Mint. He
says "that wasn't much of a challenge" to installing
and getting a game running (FTL).

Incidentally, in the other videos above -- you know,
that whole "my kids hate" thing -- the problem
is Linus won't buy Minecraft on Steam, because he
already bought it for non-Steam, and you can't
move the key from one launcher to the other. I don't
think it's fair to blame Linux for that.

--
-v

On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>
>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>
>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>
> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>
> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
> Linux issues.

He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.

On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>
>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>
>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>
>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>
>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>> Linux issues.
>
> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.

Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.

As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
not your best platform.

If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
as well.

I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
these *WINDOWS* games.

As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)

Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
YouTube "experts" you trot out.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>
>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>
>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>
>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>
>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>
>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>>> Linux issues.
>>
>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>
> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>
> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
> not your best platform.
>
> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
> as well.
>
> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
> these *WINDOWS* games.
>
> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>
> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
> YouTube "experts" you trot out.

Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in computing are
similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the hardware
he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement with
ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

>The
>reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>machine.

Ridiculous. I lost jack by switching to Linux.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>
>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>>>> Linux issues.
>>>
>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>
>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>
>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
>> not your best platform.
>>
>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
>> as well.
>>
>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>
>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>
>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>
> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in computing are
> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the hardware
> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement with
> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.

Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers altogether if I
had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might be able
to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.

Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use Linux. Linux
"delivers" fine for me.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-06-06 9:39 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>>>>> Linux issues.
>>>>
>>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
>>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
>>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
>>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
>>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
>>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
>>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
>>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
>>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
>>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
>>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>>
>>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
>>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
>>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
>>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
>>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>>
>>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
>>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
>>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
>>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
>>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
>>> not your best platform.
>>>
>>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
>>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
>>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
>>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
>>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
>>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
>>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
>>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
>>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>>
>>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
>>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
>>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
>>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
>>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
>>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>>
>>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
>>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
>>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>>
>> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
>> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in computing are
>> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the hardware
>> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
>> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
>> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
>> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
>> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement with
>> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.
>
> Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers altogether if I
> had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might be able
> to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.
>
> Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use Linux. Linux
> "delivers" fine for me.

For what it's worth, the fact that I had to change the keyboard on this
particular laptop and got the computer back with a defective fingerprint
sensor is enough for me to consider the Mac very strongly when it will
be time to upgrade. Even the best hardware manufacturers seem to have
trouble making a machine that can withstand two years of use (three
now). The fact that I get a $150 rebate on a Mac simply because I'm a
teacher might be enough to seal the deal for me. Still, for all of the
problems with Windows, I see very few issues with 11. It is, for me, the
best they have made so far. It's easy to get attached to it despite the
serious privacy concerns.

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 5 Jun 2024 15:35:09 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
> in <R538O.39349$Inzb.35083@fx13.iad>:
>
>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>
>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>
>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>
> So here is the actual "part 1":
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0506yDSgU7M
>
> I've see this. Linus hoses X11 on Pop!_OS, so he goes
> with Manjaro.
>
> The other guy has much better luck with Linux Mint. He
> says "that wasn't much of a challenge" to installing
> and getting a game running (FTL).
>
> Incidentally, in the other videos above -- you know,
> that whole "my kids hate" thing -- the problem
> is Linus won't buy Minecraft on Steam, because he
> already bought it for non-Steam, and you can't
> move the key from one launcher to the other. I don't
> think it's fair to blame Linux for that.

You can always find a handful of links to "prove" whatever point you
want.

It may "prove" an existence theorem, but then it's fairly easy to "prove" the
existence of the opposite of the theorem.

Anecdotes noted. Not bothering to view them. Besides I have a feeling I've seen
that "Linus hates" stuff before.

--
You will be reincarnated as a toad; and you will be much happier.

On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-06 9:39 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>>>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>>>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>>>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>>>>>> Linux issues.
>>>>>
>>>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
>>>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
>>>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
>>>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
>>>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
>>>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
>>>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
>>>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
>>>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
>>>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
>>>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>>>
>>>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
>>>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
>>>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
>>>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
>>>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>>>
>>>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
>>>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
>>>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
>>>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
>>>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
>>>> not your best platform.
>>>>
>>>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
>>>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
>>>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
>>>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
>>>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
>>>> as well.
>>>>
>>>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
>>>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
>>>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
>>>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
>>>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>>>
>>>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
>>>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
>>>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
>>>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
>>>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
>>>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>>>
>>>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
>>>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
>>>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>>>
>>> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
>>> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in computing are
>>> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the hardware
>>> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
>>> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
>>> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
>>> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
>>> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement with
>>> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.
>>
>> Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers altogether if I
>> had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might be able
>> to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.
>>
>> Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use Linux. Linux
>> "delivers" fine for me.
>
> For what it's worth, the fact that I had to change the keyboard on this
> particular laptop and got the computer back with a defective fingerprint
> sensor is enough for me to consider the Mac very strongly when it will
> be time to upgrade. Even the best hardware manufacturers seem to have
> trouble making a machine that can withstand two years of use (three
> now). The fact that I get a $150 rebate on a Mac simply because I'm a
> teacher might be enough to seal the deal for me. Still, for all of the
> problems with Windows, I see very few issues with 11. It is, for me, the
> best they have made so far. It's easy to get attached to it despite the
> serious privacy concerns.

The ads and spyware would keep me away from Windows 11, if nothing else. I
like the quality of my Latitude E7450 but the newer Ultrabooks (I believe)
are built like the Macs, with soldered on memory and SSD cards. I wouldn't
like that. That was an advantage that Dell (and others) had over Macs.
Windows laptops seem to be looking more and more like Macs — I guess they'll
start working more like Macs when they go to ARM chips.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:

>The ads and spyware would keep me away from Windows 11, if nothing else.

But but Copilot gives you AI built into the OS!!! Don't you want that
fabulous convenience? You don't even need to load ChatGPT! It's the
21st century, woo!

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-06 9:39 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>>>>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>>>>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>>>>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>>>>>>> Linux issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>>>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>>>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
>>>>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
>>>>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
>>>>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
>>>>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
>>>>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
>>>>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
>>>>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
>>>>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
>>>>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
>>>>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
>>>>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
>>>>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
>>>>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
>>>>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
>>>>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
>>>>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
>>>>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
>>>>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
>>>>> not your best platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
>>>>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
>>>>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
>>>>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
>>>>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
>>>>> as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
>>>>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
>>>>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
>>>>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
>>>>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
>>>>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
>>>>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
>>>>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
>>>>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
>>>>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
>>>>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
>>>>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>>>>
>>>> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
>>>> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in computing are
>>>> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the hardware
>>>> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
>>>> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
>>>> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
>>>> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
>>>> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement with
>>>> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.
>>>
>>> Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers altogether if I
>>> had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might be able
>>> to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.
>>>
>>> Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use Linux. Linux
>>> "delivers" fine for me.
>>
>> For what it's worth, the fact that I had to change the keyboard on this
>> particular laptop and got the computer back with a defective fingerprint
>> sensor is enough for me to consider the Mac very strongly when it will
>> be time to upgrade. Even the best hardware manufacturers seem to have
>> trouble making a machine that can withstand two years of use (three
>> now). The fact that I get a $150 rebate on a Mac simply because I'm a
>> teacher might be enough to seal the deal for me. Still, for all of the
>> problems with Windows, I see very few issues with 11. It is, for me, the
>> best they have made so far. It's easy to get attached to it despite the
>> serious privacy concerns.
>
> The ads and spyware would keep me away from Windows 11, if nothing else. I
> like the quality of my Latitude E7450 but the newer Ultrabooks (I believe)
> are built like the Macs, with soldered on memory and SSD cards. I wouldn't
> like that. That was an advantage that Dell (and others) had over Macs.
> Windows laptops seem to be looking more and more like Macs — I guess they'll
> start working more like Macs when they go to ARM chips.
>
get an ad blocker and some malware detection and windows 11 is great

On 2024-06-06 12:28 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-06-06 9:39 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also looks to be a
>>>>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any stability
>>>>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using Linux. But
>>>>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to his (and your)
>>>>>>> Linux issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>>>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>>>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at how bad
>>>>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased so he
>>>>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it. Imagine being
>>>>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front of you
>>>>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double digits,
>>>>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your time
>>>>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the 90s. A
>>>>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and considers the
>>>>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several times
>>>>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready, won't
>>>>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge." Obviously that
>>>>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among thousands, but
>>>>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many people use
>>>>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to generalize, assuming
>>>>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and apparently they
>>>>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his kids are
>>>>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do. That
>>>>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it. And, as
>>>>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows games, Linux is
>>>>> not your best platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled people
>>>>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for disgruntled
>>>>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations, you can
>>>>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love Linux and have
>>>>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of those people
>>>>> as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of the BS
>>>>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have accept that
>>>>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't mean
>>>>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for playing
>>>>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times probably takes as
>>>>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows, and I own
>>>>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
>>>>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior for
>>>>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if that's
>>>>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck convincing me
>>>>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many so-called
>>>>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>>>>
>>>> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
>>>> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in computing are
>>>> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the hardware
>>>> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
>>>> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
>>>> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
>>>> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
>>>> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement with
>>>> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.
>>>
>>> Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers altogether if I
>>> had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might be able
>>> to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.
>>>
>>> Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use Linux. Linux
>>> "delivers" fine for me.
>>
>> For what it's worth, the fact that I had to change the keyboard on this
>> particular laptop and got the computer back with a defective fingerprint
>> sensor is enough for me to consider the Mac very strongly when it will
>> be time to upgrade. Even the best hardware manufacturers seem to have
>> trouble making a machine that can withstand two years of use (three
>> now). The fact that I get a $150 rebate on a Mac simply because I'm a
>> teacher might be enough to seal the deal for me. Still, for all of the
>> problems with Windows, I see very few issues with 11. It is, for me, the
>> best they have made so far. It's easy to get attached to it despite the
>> serious privacy concerns.
>
> The ads and spyware would keep me away from Windows 11, if nothing else. I
> like the quality of my Latitude E7450 but the newer Ultrabooks (I believe)
> are built like the Macs, with soldered on memory and SSD cards. I wouldn't
> like that. That was an advantage that Dell (and others) had over Macs.
> Windows laptops seem to be looking more and more like Macs — I guess they'll
> start working more like Macs when they go to ARM chips.

The soldering part, as well as the fact that I would be losing my game
and movie libraries, would be the reasons I wouldn't migrate to the Mac.
I got rid of the MacBook Air specifically because I knew that the
storage would eventually stop allowing me to write to it which has the
effect of completely killing the Mac (look it up on YouTube) by sending
12V to the other components. If I went in the Mac's direction, I would
at least upgrade to much larger storage to guarantee that reaching the
TBW limit would take more than half a decade. Still, I prefer the idea
of being able to replace the SSD for larger if I need it down the line,
and upgrading RAM whenever I choose to. If the price I have to pay to
get that and a decent computing experience is Windows, I'm happy to take it.

On 2024-06-06 12:38 p.m., % wrote:
> RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-06 9:39 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also
>>>>>>>> looks to be a
>>>>>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any
>>>>>>>> stability
>>>>>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be using
>>>>>>>> Linux. But
>>>>>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to
>>>>>>>> his (and your)
>>>>>>>> Linux issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>>>>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>>>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at
>>>>>>> how bad
>>>>>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be biased
>>>>>>> so he
>>>>>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it.
>>>>>>> Imagine being
>>>>>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front
>>>>>>> of you
>>>>>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double
>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value your
>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in the
>>>>>>> 90s. A
>>>>>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and
>>>>>>> considers the
>>>>>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux several
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not ready,
>>>>>>> won't
>>>>>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge."
>>>>>> Obviously that
>>>>>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among
>>>>>> thousands, but
>>>>>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many
>>>>>> people use
>>>>>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to
>>>>>> generalize, assuming
>>>>>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and
>>>>>> apparently they
>>>>>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his
>>>>>> kids are
>>>>>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to do.
>>>>>> That
>>>>>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it.
>>>>>> And, as
>>>>>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows
>>>>>> games, Linux is
>>>>>> not your best platform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for
>>>>>> disgruntled
>>>>>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations,
>>>>>> you can
>>>>>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love
>>>>>> Linux and have
>>>>>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of
>>>>>> those people
>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of
>>>>>> the BS
>>>>>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have
>>>>>> accept that
>>>>>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That doesn't
>>>>>> mean
>>>>>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against for
>>>>>> playing
>>>>>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times
>>>>>> probably takes as
>>>>>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used Windows,
>>>>>> and I own
>>>>>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like Linux
>>>>>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not superior
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if
>>>>>> that's
>>>>>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck
>>>>>> convincing me
>>>>>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many
>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
>>>>> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in
>>>>> computing are
>>>>> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the
>>>>> hardware
>>>>> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
>>>>> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
>>>>> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
>>>>> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
>>>>> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in agreement
>>>>> with
>>>>> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.
>>>>
>>>> Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers
>>>> altogether if I
>>>> had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might
>>>> be able
>>>> to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use
>>>> Linux. Linux
>>>> "delivers" fine for me.
>>>
>>> For what it's worth, the fact that I had to change the keyboard on this
>>> particular laptop and got the computer back with a defective fingerprint
>>> sensor is enough for me to consider the Mac very strongly when it will
>>> be time to upgrade. Even the best hardware manufacturers seem to have
>>> trouble making a machine that can withstand two years of use (three
>>> now). The fact that I get a $150 rebate on a Mac simply because I'm a
>>> teacher might be enough to seal the deal for me. Still, for all of the
>>> problems with Windows, I see very few issues with 11. It is, for me, the
>>> best they have made so far. It's easy to get attached to it despite the
>>> serious privacy concerns.
>>
>> The ads and spyware would keep me away from Windows 11, if nothing
>> else. I
>> like the quality of my Latitude E7450 but the newer Ultrabooks (I
>> believe)
>> are built like the Macs, with soldered on memory and SSD cards. I
>> wouldn't
>> like that. That was an advantage that Dell (and others) had over Macs.
>> Windows laptops seem to be looking more and more like Macs — I guess
>> they'll
>> start working more like Macs when they go to ARM chips.
>>
> get an ad blocker and some malware detection and windows 11 is great

Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2024-06-06 12:38 p.m., % wrote:
>> RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-06-06 9:39 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-06-06 8:21 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-06-06, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-05 9:44 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Since I'm such a terrible shill and stuff.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS25mCLyQyk>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have NOT had a stable Linux experience.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/rVmJooy5NiU?si=2D0FfhbhrXMFRwvP>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Looks like the Linux community charmed Linus
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://youtu.be/fJB9fdXWiiw?si=0-JlvJROJyfG2hNF>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looks like this guy has a lot of problems with Linux. He also
>>>>>>>>> looks to be a
>>>>>>>>> game player. Maybe he should stick with Windows.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have problems with Linux stability (and haven't had any
>>>>>>>>> stability
>>>>>>>>> problems for about 18 years). If I did I wouldn't still be
>>>>>>>>> using Linux. But
>>>>>>>>> I don't play Windows video games, so that might be the key to
>>>>>>>>> his (and your)
>>>>>>>>> Linux issues.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
>>>>>>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go
>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>>>>>> machine. He keeps giving it a shot and getting disappointed at
>>>>>>>> how bad
>>>>>>>> it is for everything else. However, he thought he might be
>>>>>>>> biased so he
>>>>>>>> asked his kids to use it instead. They too can't stand it.
>>>>>>>> Imagine being
>>>>>>>> a kid and being open to just about anything that's put in front
>>>>>>>> of you
>>>>>>>> but even you, with an age that hasn't even reached the double
>>>>>>>> digits,
>>>>>>>> think that Linux is lacking. As sad as this is, if you value
>>>>>>>> your time
>>>>>>>> at all, there are but two options: Windows or Mac, same as in
>>>>>>>> the 90s. A
>>>>>>>> friend of mine recently moved from Windows to the Mac and
>>>>>>>> considers the
>>>>>>>> Mac Mini the best desktop he's ever owned. He tried Linux
>>>>>>>> several times
>>>>>>>> before but came to the same conclusion as I have: it's not
>>>>>>>> ready, won't
>>>>>>>> be ready, and isn't worth the trouble.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bullshit. He's ONE person. He's taking a Linux "challenge."
>>>>>>> Obviously that
>>>>>>> means he's not used to using Linux. He's just one voice among
>>>>>>> thousands, but
>>>>>>> he happens to agree with your current position on Linux. Many
>>>>>>> people use
>>>>>>> Linux for all kinds of projects. You have a tendency to
>>>>>>> generalize, assuming
>>>>>>> you know what you don't know about why and how people use Linux.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for his kids, they want to play MineCraft with him and
>>>>>>> apparently they
>>>>>>> can't play MineCraft Dungeons (whatever that is). So, yeah, his
>>>>>>> kids are
>>>>>>> thwarted in what they currently want to use their computers to
>>>>>>> do. That
>>>>>>> means basically NOTHING about Linux and what can be done with it.
>>>>>>> And, as
>>>>>>> I've said (now countless times), if you want to play Windows
>>>>>>> games, Linux is
>>>>>>> not your best platform.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you search long enough you're always going to find disgruntled
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> whining about something — and you happen to be searching for
>>>>>>> disgruntled
>>>>>>> people whining about Linux, so you've found one. Congratulations,
>>>>>>> you can
>>>>>>> use an Internet search engine. Now search for people who love
>>>>>>> Linux and have
>>>>>>> used it for years to balance things out. You'll find plenty of
>>>>>>> those people
>>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know you're frustrated because you want to use Linux because of
>>>>>>> the BS
>>>>>>> Microsoft is doing with Windows — but you're just going to have
>>>>>>> accept that
>>>>>>> Windows is a better platform for Windows video games. That
>>>>>>> doesn't mean
>>>>>>> Linux is not a good OS, it's just got the odds stacked against
>>>>>>> for playing
>>>>>>> these *WINDOWS* games.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for valuing my time, Updating Windows 10 just two times
>>>>>>> probably takes as
>>>>>>> much time as updating Linux for a couple years. I've used
>>>>>>> Windows, and I own
>>>>>>> a couple Macs. I don't like or use either of those OSes. I like
>>>>>>> Linux
>>>>>>> because it's superior and makes more sense. (But it's not
>>>>>>> superior for
>>>>>>> playing Windows games or running bloated Microcrap Office — so if
>>>>>>> that's
>>>>>>> important to a user, they're probably better off using Windows.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good luck with whatever direction you go. You'll have no luck
>>>>>>> convincing me
>>>>>>> that Windows or Mac OS is better than Linux — no matter how many
>>>>>>> so-called
>>>>>>> YouTube "experts" you trot out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out of respect for you, I'm choosing not to answer each point
>>>>>> individually. I cite Linus merely because his interests in
>>>>>> computing are
>>>>>> similar to mine. Like me, he does not want to be limited by the
>>>>>> hardware
>>>>>> he buys and he doesn't want to be mocked when he finds a problem with
>>>>>> software. Unfortunately for both of us, Linux is definitely not
>>>>>> something which can deliver. He and I both love the idea of it, but
>>>>>> can't stand the final product. I'm sure Communists were just as
>>>>>> disappointed that the ideology they were theoretically in
>>>>>> agreement with
>>>>>> ended up causing them to starve and lose their individual rights.
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay. I'm the opposite. I think I would quit using computers
>>>>> altogether if I
>>>>> had to use Windows. Since Mac OSX at least has a UNIX base, I might
>>>>> be able
>>>>> to stomach it, but what I've seen of it so far I'm not crazy about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately I don't have to use Windows or a Mac. I get to use
>>>>> Linux. Linux
>>>>> "delivers" fine for me.
>>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, the fact that I had to change the keyboard on this
>>>> particular laptop and got the computer back with a defective
>>>> fingerprint
>>>> sensor is enough for me to consider the Mac very strongly when it will
>>>> be time to upgrade. Even the best hardware manufacturers seem to have
>>>> trouble making a machine that can withstand two years of use (three
>>>> now). The fact that I get a $150 rebate on a Mac simply because I'm a
>>>> teacher might be enough to seal the deal for me. Still, for all of the
>>>> problems with Windows, I see very few issues with 11. It is, for me,
>>>> the
>>>> best they have made so far. It's easy to get attached to it despite the
>>>> serious privacy concerns.
>>>
>>> The ads and spyware would keep me away from Windows 11, if nothing
>>> else. I
>>> like the quality of my Latitude E7450 but the newer Ultrabooks (I
>>> believe)
>>> are built like the Macs, with soldered on memory and SSD cards. I
>>> wouldn't
>>> like that. That was an advantage that Dell (and others) had over Macs.
>>> Windows laptops seem to be looking more and more like Macs — I guess
>>> they'll
>>> start working more like Macs when they go to ARM chips.
>>>
>> get an ad blocker and some malware detection and windows 11 is great
>
> Or be even smarter and make sure that you are connected through a VPN at
> all times, regardless of the operating system you have chosen to use.
> Then, use something like Brave which doesn't track everything you do by
> default the way that Firefox, Chrome or Edge do.

On Thu, 6 Jun 2024 07:55:27 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> He's a professional, gaming is but one of the things he does. The
> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
> machine.

Two words -- horse shit.

Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote at 13:25 this Thursday (GMT):
> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
>>The
>>reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>machine.
>
>
> Ridiculous. I lost jack by switching to Linux.

I lost I think 3 or so steam games..? and ss13
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid>
wrote:
>Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote at 13:25 this Thursday (GMT):
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>The
>>>reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>>web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>>machine.
>>
>> Ridiculous. I lost jack by switching to Linux.
>
>I lost I think 3 or so steam games..? and ss13

I can understand the game thing. Windows does have a unique position
there, though less so than in the past. But Andrzej was suggesting
that Linux only does rudimentary functions, which is some serious BS.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 06 Jun 2024 21:26:35 -0400, Joel wrote:

> I can understand the game thing. Windows does have a unique position
> there, though less so than in the past. But Andrzej was suggesting that
> Linux only does rudimentary functions, which is some serious BS.

I can't find hard data but wouldn't it be ironic if Blizzard's WoW servers
were running Linux?

On 6/6/2024 6:00 PM, candycanearter07 wrote:
> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote at 13:25 this Thursday (GMT):
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> The
>>> reality here is that if you're looking to do more than just go on the
>>> web, write texts and send e-mails, Linux is just not an appropriate
>>> machine.
>>
>>
>> Ridiculous. I lost jack by switching to Linux.
>
>
> I lost I think 3 or so steam games..? and ss13

Space Station 13?

I looked at it. I never got the appeal of those 2d or 2d scroller games.

I'm a Half-Life 2 geek. And some shooters, like Serious Sam HD 1st
Encounter, are a blast.

The two Alice games by American McGhee were cool.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> I can understand the game thing. Windows does have a unique position
>> there, though less so than in the past. But Andrzej was suggesting that
>> Linux only does rudimentary functions, which is some serious BS.
>
>I can't find hard data but wouldn't it be ironic if Blizzard's WoW servers
>were running Linux?

I'm pretty sure they are, actually. Windows Server offers no
advantage in that kind of application. I don't even get why people
put up with it on the desktop, but I'm perhaps an outlier in that way,
but its uses as a server OS are kind of a joke, it's all boring
corporate stuff, the kind of thing that if I were working with it,
five days a week, I'd jump off a bridge.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 06 Jun 2024 23:53:58 -0400, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>> I can understand the game thing. Windows does have a unique position
>>> there, though less so than in the past. But Andrzej was suggesting
>>> that Linux only does rudimentary functions, which is some serious BS.
>>
>>I can't find hard data but wouldn't it be ironic if Blizzard's WoW
>>servers were running Linux?
>
>
> I'm pretty sure they are, actually. Windows Server offers no advantage
> in that kind of application. I don't even get why people put up with it
> on the desktop, but I'm perhaps an outlier in that way,
> but its uses as a server OS are kind of a joke, it's all boring
> corporate stuff, the kind of thing that if I were working with it, five
> days a week, I'd jump off a bridge.

The closest I could find was very anecdotal where someone saw a Blizzard
job opening where familiarity with Linux was desirable. There's quite a
bit about Blizzard's server farm locations, hardware, and so forth but I
could find nothing on the OS.

I did see some references on setting up you own local MMORPG on Linux.
Apparently Blizzard frowns on homegrown version of WoW and its spin offs.