"inspired by <insert commercial app>"

On 2024-06-05 11:57 a.m., DFS wrote:
>
> "inspired by <insert commercial app>"

It should be noted that Linux's openness is a major reason for why Sun
Microsystems went bankrupt. Sun's stuff was still better, but people
could create a bunch of servers for cheap using Linux that it didn't
even matter.

I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
lots of people out of work.

On 2024-06-05, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-06-05 11:57 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>
>> "inspired by <insert commercial app>"
>
> It should be noted that Linux's openness is a major reason for why Sun
> Microsystems went bankrupt. Sun's stuff was still better, but people
> could create a bunch of servers for cheap using Linux that it didn't
> even matter.
>
> I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
> lots of people out of work.

I think Sun was like a lot of big, successful corporations. They got fat and
complacent and failed to innovate. Sun was already on its way down long
before Linux became the dominant web-server OS. Microsoft specifically set
out to destroy Sun. When I helped to remove a PBX switch and phones at a
closed Mirosoft corporate building in Dallas (in the early 2000s) I saw some
of their material about destroying Sun in the assorted trash they just left
lying around. I think they called it "Sundown" — or something like that.
They considered Sun a major competitor but, by then, they had pretty much
done their job.

As for Sun OS being "better" than Linux. Maybe at the time, but Linux was
already innovating while Sun was resting on their laurels.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-06-05 11:57 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>
>> "inspired by <insert commercial app>"
>
> It should be noted that Linux's openness is a major reason for why Sun
> Microsystems went bankrupt. Sun's stuff was still better, but people
> could create a bunch of servers for cheap using Linux that it didn't
> even matter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Microsystems

. . .

In general, Sun was a proponent of open systems, particularly Unix. It was
also a major contributor to open-source software, as evidenced by its $1
billion purchase, in 2008, of MySQL, an open-source relational database
management system.

. . .

During the dot-com bubble, Sun began making more money, with its stock
rising as high as $250 per share. It also began spending much more,
hiring workers and building itself out. Some of this was because of genuine
demand, but much was from web start-up companies anticipating business that
would never happen. In 2000, the bubble burst. Sales in Sun's important
hardware division went into free-fall as customers closed shop and
auctioned high-end servers.

. . .

On April 20, 2009, it was announced that Oracle would acquire Sun for
US$7.4 billion. The deal was completed on January 27, 2010

And then Oracle started suing people over Java, IIRC.

> I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
> lots of people out of work.

I beginning to think you are quite the sourpuss.

--
You have an unusual magnetic personality. Don't walk too close to
metal objects which are not fastened down.

On 2024-06-06 10:41 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

< snip >

> I beginning to think you are quite the sourpuss.

Yeah, I guess I am.

Andrzej Matuch wrote:

>I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
>lots of people out of work.

There's that attitude, again...

--
"They only have three years left to live. The airline pilots are now
dropping dead from the jab." - kook "anonlinuxuser", June 2021

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>>I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
>>lots of people out of work.
>
>There's that attitude, again...

Must be why he "switches" to Linux for five seconds at a time, just to
gain false credibility.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 6/6/2024 9:07 PM, Joel wrote:
> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
>>> lots of people out of work.
>>
>> There's that attitude, again...
>
>
> Must be why he "switches" to Linux for five seconds at a time,

ha!

He's on Windows for the time being, but look for some Windows hatred in
the next week, then a statement that "Linux does everything I need. No
more Windows for me."

He posts too much for me to find all the verbal switches back and forth,
but it's got to be 15x to 20x by now, going back to 2017 at least.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mar 2017
"Linux has disappointed me too much and its one remaining benefit to me
has been decimated. It's Windows or nothing from now on."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jun 2023
"I'm glad that I can finally escape the distractions of proprietary
software and feel like I am in control of my computer again."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nov 2023
"*I* *GIVE* *UP
I am going to be formatting every last key I have with Linux on it and I
am quitting this forum. I don't even want to think about this steaming
pile of garbage anymore."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Slimer, in the future please post in the Subject line "I'm leaving <OS>
for good!" so I can tally all the switcheroos.

On 2024-06-07 9:55 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 6/6/2024 9:07 PM, Joel wrote:
>> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
>>>> lots of people out of work.
>>>
>>> There's that attitude, again...
>>
>>
>> Must be why he "switches" to Linux for five seconds at a time,
>
> ha!
>
> He's on Windows for the time being, but look for some Windows hatred in
> the next week, then a statement that "Linux does everything I need.  No
> more Windows for me."
>
> He posts too much for me to find all the verbal switches back and forth,
> but it's got to be 15x to 20x by now, going back to 2017 at least.

Honestly, it's probably more. My love for Linux causes me to forget
about the previous disappointment and I keep giving it a chance. Add to
that the privacy nightmares we all keep learning about on the Windows
side or the forced obsolescence provided by Apple, and I end up feeling
like I need to move to Linux quite regularly.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Mar 2017
> "Linux has disappointed me too much and its one remaining benefit to me
> has been decimated. It's Windows or nothing from now on."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jun 2023
> "I'm glad that I can finally escape the distractions of proprietary
> software and feel like I am in control of my computer again."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Nov 2023
> "*I* *GIVE* *UP
> I am going to be formatting every last key I have with Linux on it and I
> am quitting this forum. I don't even want to think about this steaming
> pile of garbage anymore."
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Slimer, in the future please post in the Subject line "I'm leaving <OS>
> for good!" so I can tally all the switcheroos.

Heh.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>On 2024-06-07 9:55 a.m., DFS wrote:
>> On 6/6/2024 9:07 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I guess that's Linux's greatest achievement: killing Sun and putting
>>>>> lots of people out of work.
>>>>
>>>> There's that attitude, again...
>>>
>>> Must be why he "switches" to Linux for five seconds at a time,
>>
>> ha!
>>
>> He's on Windows for the time being, but look for some Windows hatred in
>> the next week, then a statement that "Linux does everything I need.  No
>> more Windows for me."
>>
>> He posts too much for me to find all the verbal switches back and forth,
>> but it's got to be 15x to 20x by now, going back to 2017 at least.
>
>Honestly, it's probably more. My love for Linux causes me to forget
>about the previous disappointment and I keep giving it a chance. Add to
>that the privacy nightmares we all keep learning about on the Windows
>side or the forced obsolescence provided by Apple, and I end up feeling
>like I need to move to Linux quite regularly.

I just want a platform that is consistent, Winblows really isn't that,
it's ever-evolving, too quickly, dead-ending machines version-wise.
Linux doesn't do that. I *could* still be using my old computer,
today, it's nice to have this one, but I had that thing running Mint
very well, just before its retirement.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Sun, 09 Jun 2024 18:36:15 -0400, Joel wrote:

> I just want a platform that is consistent, Winblows really isn't that,
> it's ever-evolving, too quickly, dead-ending machines version-wise.
> Linux doesn't do that. I *could* still be using my old computer, today,
> it's nice to have this one, but I had that thing running Mint very well,
> just before its retirement.

I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of days
and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at the
packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't playing
too well together.

If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he may
have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would have
waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not jumping
to Ubuntu 24 for a while.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> I just want a platform that is consistent, Winblows really isn't that,
>> it's ever-evolving, too quickly, dead-ending machines version-wise.
>> Linux doesn't do that. I *could* still be using my old computer, today,
>> it's nice to have this one, but I had that thing running Mint very well,
>> just before its retirement.
>
>I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of days
>and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at the
>packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't playing
>too well together.
>
>If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he may
>have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would have
>waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not jumping
>to Ubuntu 24 for a while.

Mint might be the, almost, commercial distro, but it has a way of
"just working" that I've found unique, to it. It turns my computer
into a workstation, essentially, just as Win11 would, but without the
bothersome bloat of M$. It's just a dream, almost, having this nice
machine, so simple and perfect, with Mint, using X/Twitter, using COLA
and IRC, talking to my GF, doing my work effortlessly.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 9 Jun 2024 23:46:45 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Jun 2024 18:36:15 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> I just want a platform that is consistent, Winblows really isn't that,
>> it's ever-evolving, too quickly, dead-ending machines version-wise.
>> Linux doesn't do that. I *could* still be using my old computer,
>> today,
>> it's nice to have this one, but I had that thing running Mint very
>> well,
>> just before its retirement.
>
> I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of
> days and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at
> the packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't
> playing too well together.
>
> If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he
> may have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would
> have waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not
> jumping to Ubuntu 24 for a while.

One of your login session options for Fedora should
be KDE with X11.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 Linux 6.9.3 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti

On 10 Jun 2024 00:45:46 GMT, vallor wrote:

> One of your login session options for Fedora should be KDE with X11.

Only if you jump through some hoops.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KDE_Plasma_6

Some people have tried installing plasma-workspace-x11 but given the SIG's
lack of interest that doesn't seem like a good option. It does have
XWayland. I just installed my favorite canary, xclock, and it does come up
in all its glory.

On 2024-06-09 7:46 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Jun 2024 18:36:15 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> I just want a platform that is consistent, Winblows really isn't that,
>> it's ever-evolving, too quickly, dead-ending machines version-wise.
>> Linux doesn't do that. I *could* still be using my old computer, today,
>> it's nice to have this one, but I had that thing running Mint very well,
>> just before its retirement.
>
> I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of days
> and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at the
> packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't playing
> too well together.
>
> If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he may
> have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would have
> waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not jumping
> to Ubuntu 24 for a while.

The paragraph above should be read by anyone considering moving to
Linux. Don't install the latest release because most of it has not yet
been sorted out by the developers. None of it comes with any kind of
warranty, and they mean it.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 9 Jun 2024 23:46:45 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 09 Jun 2024 18:36:15 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> I just want a platform that is consistent, Winblows really isn't that,
>>> it's ever-evolving, too quickly, dead-ending machines version-wise.
>>> Linux doesn't do that. I *could* still be using my old computer,
>>> today,
>>> it's nice to have this one, but I had that thing running Mint very
>>> well,
>>> just before its retirement.
>>
>> I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of
>> days and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at
>> the packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't
>> playing too well together.
>>
>> If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he
>> may have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would
>> have waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not
>> jumping to Ubuntu 24 for a while.
>
> One of your login session options for Fedora should
> be KDE with X11.

Nah, Fluxbox or some similar WM.

--
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves
possess.
-- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 07:38:32 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> The paragraph above should be read by anyone considering moving to
> Linux. Don't install the latest release because most of it has not yet
> been sorted out by the developers. None of it comes with any kind of
> warranty, and they mean it.

I'll agree with that. My production machine at work is Debian, which is a
conservative distro. Even that is Debian 11, not the current 'bookworm'. I
like stable. It gets some updates but not major parts of the system.

My Fedora box is an experiment and I knew what I was getting into.

I ran openSUSE 13.2 for years, long after it went out of support, with no
problems. One difference from Windows is SUSE doesn't give a damn if you
move to the latest version or not.

Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> rbowman wrote:
>>
>> I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of days
>> and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at the
>> packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't playing
>> too well together.
>>
>> If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he may
>> have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would have
>> waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not jumping
>> to Ubuntu 24 for a while.
>
>The paragraph above should be read by anyone considering moving to
>Linux. Don't install the latest release because most of it has not yet
>been sorted out by the developers. None of it comes with any kind of
>warranty, and they mean it.

Well, it's Fedora, a cutting-edge experimental distro.

--
"It's called Distro hell. It is holding the adoption of Linux back.
This choice thing is a joke." - "True Linux advocate" Hadron Quark

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 07:38:32 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> The paragraph above should be read by anyone considering moving to
>> Linux. Don't install the latest release because most of it has not yet
>> been sorted out by the developers. None of it comes with any kind of
>> warranty, and they mean it.
>
> I'll agree with that. My production machine at work is Debian, which is a
> conservative distro. Even that is Debian 11, not the current 'bookworm'. I
> like stable. It gets some updates but not major parts of the system.

I ran Debian Sid (unstable) for quite awhile. Was nice to have later versions
of some packages; not many real issues surfaced.

> My Fedora box is an experiment and I knew what I was getting into.
>
> I ran openSUSE 13.2 for years, long after it went out of support, with no
> problems. One difference from Windows is SUSE doesn't give a damn if you
> move to the latest version or not.

--
Don't go surfing in South Dakota for a while.

On 2024-06-10 2:15 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 07:38:32 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> The paragraph above should be read by anyone considering moving to
>> Linux. Don't install the latest release because most of it has not yet
>> been sorted out by the developers. None of it comes with any kind of
>> warranty, and they mean it.
>
> I'll agree with that. My production machine at work is Debian, which is a
> conservative distro. Even that is Debian 11, not the current 'bookworm'. I
> like stable. It gets some updates but not major parts of the system.
>
> My Fedora box is an experiment and I knew what I was getting into.
>
> I ran openSUSE 13.2 for years, long after it went out of support, with no
> problems. One difference from Windows is SUSE doesn't give a damn if you
> move to the latest version or not.

Anyone who's read my posts around here will know that I have nothing
negative to say about openSUSE. Behind the scenes, they're very woke and
believe in diversity hiring, keeping Whites down and the rest, but the
distribution is strong. I notice that the developers of asusctl also
support it officially, so it would be a good idea to try that one again
during my next "I love Linux!" migration.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-06-10 3:24 p.m., chrisv wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>> I think Fedora is trying to catch up. I'd not updated for a couple of days
>>> and yesterday was 535 packages with a 1.3 GB download. Looking at the
>>> packages I get the impression Plasma 6, Qt 5, and Wayland aren't playing
>>> too well together.
>>>
>>> If Glorious Eggroll is trying to work his nobara magic on Fedora 40 he may
>>> have his work cut out for him. If it was my main machine I would have
>>> waited a few months before upgrading from 39. I'm definitely not jumping
>>> to Ubuntu 24 for a while.
>>
>> The paragraph above should be read by anyone considering moving to
>> Linux. Don't install the latest release because most of it has not yet
>> been sorted out by the developers. None of it comes with any kind of
>> warranty, and they mean it.
>
> Well, it's Fedora, a cutting-edge experimental distro.

Agreed. That paragraph should encourage people to consider taking a look
at Debian.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 16:35:47 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Anyone who's read my posts around here will know that I have nothing
> negative to say about openSUSE. Behind the scenes, they're very woke and
> believe in diversity hiring, keeping Whites down and the rest, but the
> distribution is strong. I notice that the developers of asusctl also
> support it officially, so it would be a good idea to try that one again
> during my next "I love Linux!" migration.

While digging around in the shed yesterday I came across a SUSE Linux 8.1
Professional box, $79.95 from Best Buy. Those were the days, real live
installation media and a hardcopy manual. I'd switched from Red Hat Linux
after the gcc 2.96 fiasco in RHL 7. (not RHEL 7). That was before Novell
bought them.

I ran 13.2 until Feb 2023. I'd never upgraded to Leap and with no way
forward except a fresh install I put Ubuntu on a new box. I put a SSD in
the SUSE box and did a clean Fedora install so it's still hanging out on
the HDD.

I prefer KDE so it was a natural but I don't know if I'd go back to it.

On Mon, 10 Jun 2024 16:45:21 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Agreed. That paragraph should encourage people to consider taking a look
> at Debian.

My Debian is running xfce. Not my favorite but I can live with it. Long
story but I wanted a 32bit distro and I believe Debian was the last man
standing.