Le 2024-12-15 à 13:23, rbowman a écrit :
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:43:43 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> As inconvenient as updating is, people have no choice but to go ahead
>> and do it for the good of all. I can imagine it being a problem to
>> update at 8pm when you have the highest amount of traffic, but 3AM
>> should be reserved for such things.
>
> Yeah, nobody ever dials 911 at 3AM.

Are you suggesting that every server requiring updates handles 911 calls?

--
CrudeSausage

On 12/15/24 11:21 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>> ...
>> This is why you don’t even need to do a reboot if it is sufficient to
>> simply stop and start the affected services.
>
> The aptiude front-end for apt might detect an issue with versions. You can then
> examine the issue and see a list of one or more solutions; you can then pick
> the solution you want. And in a few days, that issue will likely be gone
> anyway.

What some of this has prompted me to think about is how there's
relatively recent security folks who are suggesting to reboot one's
smartphone nightly, as a security measure against spyware/etc.

From this perspective, it would seem that a hard reboot might not be a
bad thing for desktop PCs too. Sure, I can see the desire for high
uptime on Cloud/Web/server stuff, but for a desktop? Nah, just make it
part of the overnight maintenance cycle as a procedure to minimize risks
from malware.

-hh

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 15:36:19 -0500, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com>
wrote in <vjnek3$l418$2@dont-email.me>:

> On 12/15/24 11:21 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>> ...
>>> This is why you don’t even need to do a reboot if it is sufficient to
>>> simply stop and start the affected services.
>>
>> The aptiude front-end for apt might detect an issue with versions. You can then
>> examine the issue and see a list of one or more solutions; you can then pick
>> the solution you want. And in a few days, that issue will likely be gone
>> anyway.
>
> What some of this has prompted me to think about is how there's
> relatively recent security folks who are suggesting to reboot one's
> smartphone nightly, as a security measure against spyware/etc.
>
> From this perspective, it would seem that a hard reboot might not be a
> bad thing for desktop PCs too. Sure, I can see the desire for high
> uptime on Cloud/Web/server stuff, but for a desktop? Nah, just make it
> part of the overnight maintenance cycle as a procedure to minimize risks
> from malware.
>
>
> -hh

Reminds me of back in the early 90's at the college, when our student-access
Unix (Linux) host would reboot nightly at 3am.

The idea was to clear out any cruftiness in the kernel, as well as
restart long-running processes that might have leaked memory, or
gotten themselves into undesirable states, or what-have-you.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.12.4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer."

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
> anyway:

I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of Debian
installs, for myself and for paying customers.

Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>> anyway:
>
> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of Debian
> installs, for myself and for paying customers.

Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.

--
CrudeSausage

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:15:59 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> I think that most people who face issues in Linux
> are going to be the ones using an NVIDIA GPU.

Interesting, because much (most?) of this LLM development is happening
with NVidia GPUs, and all the systems on which they are installed are
running ... Linux.

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:04:58 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>>> anyway:
>>
>> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of Debian
>> installs, for myself and for paying customers.
>
> Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.

Windows does that to you, doesn’t it: degrades your ability to distinguish
truth from fiction. Comes from believing too much Microsoft propaganda.

On 2024-12-15, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 07:29:11 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> Yeah. I like the way Fedora does that better than Ubuntu/Linux Mint.
>> With them you get a "reboot required" message with some updates — even
>> though you can ignore the message if you want to.
>
> I haven't gotten one of those on the Ubuntu box in a long time which means
> I can expect one tomorrow.

I think they come about once a month (or maybe once every three weeks?) on
Linux Mint.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-14 à 11:14, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 00:43, rbowman a écrit :
>>>> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 22:07:11 -0500, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12/13/2024 10:40 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a lot easier to update Linux than Windows or MacOS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe, maybe not.
>>>>>
>>>>> The massive update to Win11 24H2 was a few mouse clicks. Absolutely no
>>>>> other user input was required.
>>>>
>>>> There is a GUI but I prefer command line.
>>>>
>>>>> sudo dnf update --refreah
>>>>
>>>> gets the job done. I do have to enter my password. It then tells me which
>>>> packages will be updated and their sizes and asks me if I want to
>>>> continue.
>>>>
>>>> I did update two machines to 24H2 this week. I got to play several games
>>>> of Mahjong solitaire while checking back 'Downloading 3%', Downloading
>>>> 13%' and so forth, and then several mare with 'Installing 5%' etc. At the
>>>> end I had to restart. More games, 'Updating you computer..' Finally I was
>>>> able to log in. 'Hi! Getting things ready for you'
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea what was updated although I probably could hunt down the
>>>> KB. The good news is it doesn't seem to have broken anything. I did a work
>>>> machine that I hardly ever use anymore and a laptop which is solely used
>>>> for accessing the corporate VPN so it wasn't a real stress test.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose some day I'll move to Fedora 41 and Ubuntu 24.2 but if it ain't
>>>> broken...
>>>
>>> Like I just wrote in my previous post, the reason Windows did all that
>>> is because it essentially installed a new copy of the operating system
>>> on your computer and left the previous version on the disk in case there
>>> is a problem so you can revert to it. Linux overwrites, Windows installs
>>> anew. If I ran the operating system on a hard disk and had a slow
>>> Internet connection, I'd absolutely hate Windows for doing that. Since I
>>> don't, I appreciate the new installation which preserves all of my
>>> programs and settings yet cleans out any crap I might have amassed on
>>> the previous install.
>>
>> There's no real comparison. The way Windows updates simply sucks. Maybe some
>> day Microsoft will figure out how to do it right. But there's reasons why
>> Linux can update WITHOUT rebooting and Windows can't. Windows is an inferior
>> OS.
>
> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do. To be
> fair, many such updates require a restart in Linux too. In the short
> time I used a recent version of Fedora, I noticed that it required me to
> restart quite a few times.

I've installed applications on Windows that required a reboot. And the "big"
Windows' updates often require multiple reboots.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-14 à 11:21, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-13 à 22:07, DFS a écrit :
>>>> On 12/13/2024 10:40 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's a lot easier to update Linux than Windows or MacOS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe, maybe not.
>>>>
>>>> The massive update to Win11 24H2 was a few mouse clicks.  Absolutely no
>>>> other user input was required.
>>>
>>> Actually, I would challenge Scotty the Hutt's accessment there. If you
>>> update daily, Linux is vastly superior to Windows in that area. However,
>>> if you're like my wife and reject updates months at a time, there is a
>>> great chance that you will damage your operating system the moment you
>>> decide to go through with them on the Linux side. Windows is generally
>>> better with seldom-used machines.
>>
>> I'll challenge that statement. I know better. I've updated many Linux
>> machines after months of not turning them on. Even "ancient" computers from
>> pre-2010 update quickly and cleanly when using Linux and fast Internet.
>>
>> As I've mentioned before (several times) this assumes you're using a
>> business machine with an Intel GPU. I have read about (not personally
>> experienced) issues with Nvidia GPUs and Linux upgrades. But I've also seen
>> upgrades cause BSODs in my wife's laptop that used a Nvidia (I always just
>> disabled the Nvidia GPU, since it also had an Intel GPU) — so I'm putting
>> some of that on Nvidia.
>
> That's pretty fair. I think that most people who face issues in Linux
> are going to be the ones using an NVIDIA GPU. Unfortunately, that's the
> default for a machine capable of producing enough teraflops to play
> today's game. You can get AMD-equipped machines, but they're generally
> mid-range. I know that the version of this laptop produced a year after
> this one released had all its internals made by AMD, but it apparently
> suffered disgusting heating issues as a result. I imagine it was
> fantastic under Linux though.

I don't play Windows video games, so I'll take your word for it. It's odd,
though, that more gaming laptops wouldn't use Ryzen CPUs and AMD GPUs —
which seem to be the preference in gaming desktops. Maybe they use too much
power for laptops?

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

-hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On 12/15/24 11:21 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>> ...
>>> This is why you don’t even need to do a reboot if it is sufficient to
>>> simply stop and start the affected services.
>>
>> The aptiude front-end for apt might detect an issue with versions. You can then
>> examine the issue and see a list of one or more solutions; you can then pick
>> the solution you want. And in a few days, that issue will likely be gone
>> anyway.
>
> What some of this has prompted me to think about is how there's
> relatively recent security folks who are suggesting to reboot one's
> smartphone nightly, as a security measure against spyware/etc.
>
> From this perspective, it would seem that a hard reboot might not be a
> bad thing for desktop PCs too. Sure, I can see the desire for high
> uptime on Cloud/Web/server stuff, but for a desktop? Nah, just make it
> part of the overnight maintenance cycle as a procedure to minimize risks
> from malware.

I didn't worry about "malware" after Red Hat 6 (the original version, not the
RHEL version).

Since I no longer expose my home machines on the network (I am home all
the time anyway, and access email and project code through other's servers),
I don't worry about rebooting, except to drop into Windows to test some
code.

My biggest worry is about visiting battery-draining sites. Jesus!

--
Nobody knows the trouble I've been.

Le 2024-12-16 à 01:42, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:04:58 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>>>> anyway:
>>>
>>> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of Debian
>>> installs, for myself and for paying customers.
>>
>> Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.
>
> Windows does that to you, doesn’t it: degrades your ability to distinguish
> truth from fiction. Comes from believing too much Microsoft propaganda.

I've purposefully disregarded your previous post because I figured you
would write something like this here. I'll just say this much about your
statement about truth and Linux, especially when relating NVIDIA GPUs:

Let me know when Linux can reliably wake a machine equipped with an
NVIDIA GPU from sleep.

I'm looking forward to your barrage of lies.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-16 à 05:37, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-14 à 11:21, RonB a écrit :
>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-13 à 22:07, DFS a écrit :
>>>>> On 12/13/2024 10:40 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a lot easier to update Linux than Windows or MacOS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe, maybe not.
>>>>>
>>>>> The massive update to Win11 24H2 was a few mouse clicks.  Absolutely no
>>>>> other user input was required.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, I would challenge Scotty the Hutt's accessment there. If you
>>>> update daily, Linux is vastly superior to Windows in that area. However,
>>>> if you're like my wife and reject updates months at a time, there is a
>>>> great chance that you will damage your operating system the moment you
>>>> decide to go through with them on the Linux side. Windows is generally
>>>> better with seldom-used machines.
>>>
>>> I'll challenge that statement. I know better. I've updated many Linux
>>> machines after months of not turning them on. Even "ancient" computers from
>>> pre-2010 update quickly and cleanly when using Linux and fast Internet.
>>>
>>> As I've mentioned before (several times) this assumes you're using a
>>> business machine with an Intel GPU. I have read about (not personally
>>> experienced) issues with Nvidia GPUs and Linux upgrades. But I've also seen
>>> upgrades cause BSODs in my wife's laptop that used a Nvidia (I always just
>>> disabled the Nvidia GPU, since it also had an Intel GPU) — so I'm putting
>>> some of that on Nvidia.
>>
>> That's pretty fair. I think that most people who face issues in Linux
>> are going to be the ones using an NVIDIA GPU. Unfortunately, that's the
>> default for a machine capable of producing enough teraflops to play
>> today's game. You can get AMD-equipped machines, but they're generally
>> mid-range. I know that the version of this laptop produced a year after
>> this one released had all its internals made by AMD, but it apparently
>> suffered disgusting heating issues as a result. I imagine it was
>> fantastic under Linux though.
>
> I don't play Windows video games, so I'll take your word for it. It's odd,
> though, that more gaming laptops wouldn't use Ryzen CPUs and AMD GPUs —
> which seem to be the preference in gaming desktops. Maybe they use too much
> power for laptops?

AMD CPUs offer excellent performance while they're plugged in, but run
rather underwhelmingly the moment they are forced to rely on the
battery. Intel is better in that regard. There are tons of laptops using
AMD CPUs though. However, even then, they tend to use NVIDIA GPUs.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-16 à 07:21, Chris Ahlstrom a écrit :
> -hh wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>
>> On 12/15/24 11:21 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>> ...
>>>> This is why you don’t even need to do a reboot if it is sufficient to
>>>> simply stop and start the affected services.
>>>
>>> The aptiude front-end for apt might detect an issue with versions. You can then
>>> examine the issue and see a list of one or more solutions; you can then pick
>>> the solution you want. And in a few days, that issue will likely be gone
>>> anyway.
>>
>> What some of this has prompted me to think about is how there's
>> relatively recent security folks who are suggesting to reboot one's
>> smartphone nightly, as a security measure against spyware/etc.
>>
>> From this perspective, it would seem that a hard reboot might not be a
>> bad thing for desktop PCs too. Sure, I can see the desire for high
>> uptime on Cloud/Web/server stuff, but for a desktop? Nah, just make it
>> part of the overnight maintenance cycle as a procedure to minimize risks
>> from malware.
>
> I didn't worry about "malware" after Red Hat 6 (the original version, not the
> RHEL version).
>
> Since I no longer expose my home machines on the network (I am home all
> the time anyway, and access email and project code through other's servers),
> I don't worry about rebooting, except to drop into Windows to test some
> code.
>
> My biggest worry is about visiting battery-draining sites. Jesus!

I'm surprised that you have that much time left over from being the
neighbourhood cum dumpster.

--
CrudeSausage

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:33:06 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I've installed applications on Windows that required a reboot. And the
> "big"
> Windows' updates often require multiple reboots.

You know it's time to go dor coffee when it says 'The machine may reboot
several times'.

On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-16 à 05:37, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 11:21, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-13 à 22:07, DFS a écrit :
>>>>>> On 12/13/2024 10:40 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a lot easier to update Linux than Windows or MacOS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe, maybe not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The massive update to Win11 24H2 was a few mouse clicks.  Absolutely no
>>>>>> other user input was required.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I would challenge Scotty the Hutt's accessment there. If you
>>>>> update daily, Linux is vastly superior to Windows in that area. However,
>>>>> if you're like my wife and reject updates months at a time, there is a
>>>>> great chance that you will damage your operating system the moment you
>>>>> decide to go through with them on the Linux side. Windows is generally
>>>>> better with seldom-used machines.
>>>>
>>>> I'll challenge that statement. I know better. I've updated many Linux
>>>> machines after months of not turning them on. Even "ancient" computers from
>>>> pre-2010 update quickly and cleanly when using Linux and fast Internet.
>>>>
>>>> As I've mentioned before (several times) this assumes you're using a
>>>> business machine with an Intel GPU. I have read about (not personally
>>>> experienced) issues with Nvidia GPUs and Linux upgrades. But I've also seen
>>>> upgrades cause BSODs in my wife's laptop that used a Nvidia (I always just
>>>> disabled the Nvidia GPU, since it also had an Intel GPU) — so I'm putting
>>>> some of that on Nvidia.
>>>
>>> That's pretty fair. I think that most people who face issues in Linux
>>> are going to be the ones using an NVIDIA GPU. Unfortunately, that's the
>>> default for a machine capable of producing enough teraflops to play
>>> today's game. You can get AMD-equipped machines, but they're generally
>>> mid-range. I know that the version of this laptop produced a year after
>>> this one released had all its internals made by AMD, but it apparently
>>> suffered disgusting heating issues as a result. I imagine it was
>>> fantastic under Linux though.
>>
>> I don't play Windows video games, so I'll take your word for it. It's odd,
>> though, that more gaming laptops wouldn't use Ryzen CPUs and AMD GPUs —
>> which seem to be the preference in gaming desktops. Maybe they use too much
>> power for laptops?
>
> AMD CPUs offer excellent performance while they're plugged in, but run
> rather underwhelmingly the moment they are forced to rely on the
> battery. Intel is better in that regard. There are tons of laptops using
> AMD CPUs though. However, even then, they tend to use NVIDIA GPUs.

That makes sense. As I mentioned in another thread, I purposely look for
lower-powered machines. Mostly because I don't like the sound of fans (and I
don't need high powered ones).

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-16, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:33:06 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> I've installed applications on Windows that required a reboot. And the
>> "big"
>> Windows' updates often require multiple reboots.
>
> You know it's time to go dor coffee when it says 'The machine may reboot
> several times'.

I watched that tonight. But I was a little surprised that Windows 11 only
rebooted once (that I know of, I wasn't there for the whole update). Of
course, the restart took about ten minutes without any message at all, but
I'm guessing it was finishing the update and decided that I was a "need to
know" basis and obviously I didn't "need to know."

I found it's best not to try to hurry Windows when it's updating. It just
gets grumpy and doesn't boot (and may corrupt itself).

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:38:19 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Le 2024-12-16 à 01:42, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:04:58 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>>>>> anyway:
>>>>
>>>> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of
>>>> Debian installs, for myself and for paying customers.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.
>>
>> Windows does that to you, doesn’t it: degrades your ability to
>> distinguish truth from fiction. Comes from believing too much Microsoft
>> propaganda.
>
> ... especially when relating NVIDIA GPUs ...

Which you neglected to mention when claiming I was somehow not credible
about doing successful Debian installs.

On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.

Microsoft Office?

Le 2024-12-17 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 10:38:19 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Le 2024-12-16 à 01:42, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 20:04:58 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:28, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:53:32 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet people complain about broken Debian installs all the time
>>>>>> anyway:
>>>>>
>>>>> I speak from personal experience from successfully doing lots of
>>>>> Debian installs, for myself and for paying customers.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, I still don't believe you for many good reasons.
>>>
>>> Windows does that to you, doesn’t it: degrades your ability to
>>> distinguish truth from fiction. Comes from believing too much Microsoft
>>> propaganda.
>>
>> ... especially when relating NVIDIA GPUs ...
>
> Which you neglected to mention when claiming I was somehow not credible
> about doing successful Debian installs.

We were talking about updating, not installing. It's hard to imagine
someone getting a routine install of Debian wrong but easy to imagine
that same install breaking from a routine update.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-17 à 17:29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>
> Microsoft Office?

Funny enough, I installed it more than few times and don't recall it
requiring a reboot.

--
CrudeSausage

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>
>Microsoft Office?

The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
reason for it under Linux.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 12/17/2024 7:22 PM, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>
>> Microsoft Office?
>
>
> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
> irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
> reason for it under Linux.

Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
updates to require a reboot.

Let me know when you find ONE.

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 12/17/2024 7:22 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>>
>>> Microsoft Office?
>>
>> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
>> irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
>> reason for it under Linux.
>
>Pure horseshit. It's extremely rare for Windows application installs or
>updates to require a reboot.
>
>Let me know when you find ONE.

Many years ago, we had M$ Office 2K and I installed it fresh under our
new Win2K system - no reboot required *initially*, *but* when getting
updates beyond what was on the media, from the Net, *that* required a
reboot.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Le 2024-12-17 à 19:22, Joel a écrit :
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:13:29 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> Not all Windows updates require a restart; only the big ones do.
>>
>> Microsoft Office?
>
>
> The way Winblows has to be rebooted for app installs and updates is
> irritating. It is the "Wintendo" phenomenon. There would never be a
> reason for it under Linux.

The only reason there is no reason to reboot after installing software
in Linux is because the software is so bad, people refuse to install it.

--
CrudeSausage