https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-interim-co-ceo-claims-retailers-are-concerned-by-return-rate-of-qualcomm-powered-machines

Bottom line, people are having an issue with familiarity, returning a
Windows ARM device. It didn't operate quite the same way. Duh, it's
a good thing, it's superior tech for a laptop. Don't just return it.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 19:35:05 -0500, Joel wrote:

> https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-interim-co-ceo-
claims-retailers-are-concerned-by-return-rate-of-qualcomm-powered-machines
>
>
> Bottom line, people are having an issue with familiarity, returning a
> Windows ARM device. It didn't operate quite the same way. Duh, it's a
> good thing, it's superior tech for a laptop. Don't just return it.

"Compatibility issues are, of course, thought to be the primary reason why
people return Snapdragon X-based systems to retailers."

RT redux. Hopefully the same vicious cycle won't repeat.

Consumers:
"This thing won't run my favorite Windows app. I'm taking it back!"

Developers:
"Those things aren't selling. We're not going to waste time writing native
Arm apps."

Industry Rags:
"Low sales suggests another Microsoft flop. Share price delining."

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 19:35:05 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-interim-co-ceo-
>claims-retailers-are-concerned-by-return-rate-of-qualcomm-powered-machines
>>
>>
>> Bottom line, people are having an issue with familiarity, returning a
>> Windows ARM device. It didn't operate quite the same way. Duh, it's a
>> good thing, it's superior tech for a laptop. Don't just return it.
>
>"Compatibility issues are, of course, thought to be the primary reason why
>people return Snapdragon X-based systems to retailers."
>
>RT redux. Hopefully the same vicious cycle won't repeat.
>
>Consumers:
>"This thing won't run my favorite Windows app. I'm taking it back!"
>
>Developers:
>"Those things aren't selling. We're not going to waste time writing native
>Arm apps."
>
>Industry Rags:
>"Low sales suggests another Microsoft flop. Share price delining."

Lol, yeah, this is just growing pains. Once people actually realize
the benefit of ARM for a laptop, this trend will seem meaningless and
forgotten.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:05:47 -0500, Joel wrote:

> Lol, yeah, this is just growing pains. Once people actually realize the
> benefit of ARM for a laptop, this trend will seem meaningless and
> forgotten.

Lenovo is claiming a 28 hour battery life. Is that a truly compelling
reason to go with ARM? Battery life has always been featured in laptop
reviews but they have to write about something. It's like a long article
about why the 2025 Toyota is so much better than the 2024 Toyota.

I may not be the typical laptop user. I can't remember when the two next
to me were unplugged other than the 6 day power outage in July. Sure, I
see people using laptops in the library but the new library had outlets
all over the place as does my favorite espresso place.

People have developed laptop usage patterns over the last 25 years or so.
Maybe ARM will succeed this time. Microsoft has tried to chase Apple
before with limited success. Apple was a little cagier too. 'Apple
Silicon' is a nice buzzword that doesn't suggest a new architecture to the
plebes.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> Lol, yeah, this is just growing pains. Once people actually realize the
>> benefit of ARM for a laptop, this trend will seem meaningless and
>> forgotten.
>
>Lenovo is claiming a 28 hour battery life. Is that a truly compelling
>reason to go with ARM? Battery life has always been featured in laptop
>reviews but they have to write about something. It's like a long article
>about why the 2025 Toyota is so much better than the 2024 Toyota.
>
>I may not be the typical laptop user. I can't remember when the two next
>to me were unplugged other than the 6 day power outage in July. Sure, I
>see people using laptops in the library but the new library had outlets
>all over the place as does my favorite espresso place.
>
>People have developed laptop usage patterns over the last 25 years or so.
>Maybe ARM will succeed this time. Microsoft has tried to chase Apple
>before with limited success. Apple was a little cagier too. 'Apple
>Silicon' is a nice buzzword that doesn't suggest a new architecture to the
>plebes.

I believe that the software will follow the new hardware.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Le 2024-12-14 à 01:06, rbowman a écrit :
> On Fri, 13 Dec 2024 20:05:47 -0500, Joel wrote:
>
>> Lol, yeah, this is just growing pains. Once people actually realize the
>> benefit of ARM for a laptop, this trend will seem meaningless and
>> forgotten.
>
> Lenovo is claiming a 28 hour battery life. Is that a truly compelling
> reason to go with ARM? Battery life has always been featured in laptop
> reviews but they have to write about something. It's like a long article
> about why the 2025 Toyota is so much better than the 2024 Toyota.
>
> I may not be the typical laptop user. I can't remember when the two next
> to me were unplugged other than the 6 day power outage in July. Sure, I
> see people using laptops in the library but the new library had outlets
> all over the place as does my favorite espresso place.
>
> People have developed laptop usage patterns over the last 25 years or so.
> Maybe ARM will succeed this time. Microsoft has tried to chase Apple
> before with limited success. Apple was a little cagier too. 'Apple
> Silicon' is a nice buzzword that doesn't suggest a new architecture to the
> plebes.

People probably don't need 24-hour battery life, but they will be
thrilled to have it either way. My gaming laptop boasted of ten-hour
battery life when I got it and it can definitely do that if you don't
use the horrible software ASUS provides you by default. I usually have a
power outlet near wherever I use the computer, but I didn't have one as
I was correcting yesterday and needed to look at the students' workbook
on the screen all the while entering grades. I was hoping that I'd have
enough juice to last the three hours I was there. In the end, I used
about 25% battery in viewing the original book on screen and listening
to a local radio station which talked about the Canadiens's horrible
loss the night before. In other words, decent battery life not only
allowed me to get the job done but to enjoy myself while doing boring work.

However, notice that I was apprehensive about the laptop having enough
battery life for the task despite knowing that it can usually handle ten
hours without issue. My habit of keeping the machine plugged makes me
fear not having the adapter around. Meanwhile, when I had a MacBook Air
M1, I was so used to not having an adapter around that I wouldn't have
feared not having enough battery life. Once you experience the latter,
you get addicted to it and don't want to return to a life where you feel
it necessary to lug around anything other than the laptop itself. The
battery life of machines is indeed going to be a major selling point in
the very near future.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-14 à 01:18, Joel a écrit :
> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>> Lol, yeah, this is just growing pains. Once people actually realize the
>>> benefit of ARM for a laptop, this trend will seem meaningless and
>>> forgotten.
>>
>> Lenovo is claiming a 28 hour battery life. Is that a truly compelling
>> reason to go with ARM? Battery life has always been featured in laptop
>> reviews but they have to write about something. It's like a long article
>> about why the 2025 Toyota is so much better than the 2024 Toyota.
>>
>> I may not be the typical laptop user. I can't remember when the two next
>> to me were unplugged other than the 6 day power outage in July. Sure, I
>> see people using laptops in the library but the new library had outlets
>> all over the place as does my favorite espresso place.
>>
>> People have developed laptop usage patterns over the last 25 years or so.
>> Maybe ARM will succeed this time. Microsoft has tried to chase Apple
>> before with limited success. Apple was a little cagier too. 'Apple
>> Silicon' is a nice buzzword that doesn't suggest a new architecture to the
>> plebes.
>
>
> I believe that the software will follow the new hardware.

I hope you're right. Microsoft has a way of fucking incredibly simple
things up. Apple is already offering what Microsoft is promising so if
using ARM is that important, people should go that route.

Considering Microsoft's spotty history when it comes to transitions of
any kind, I would expect them to abandon ARM entirely if computer using
that architecture don't set the world on fire in their first year of
availability.

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>
> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.

While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-13 à 19:35, Joel a écrit :
>> https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-interim-co-ceo-claims-retailers-are-concerned-by-return-rate-of-qualcomm-powered-machines
>>
>>
>> Bottom line, people are having an issue with familiarity, returning a
>> Windows ARM device. It didn't operate quite the same way. Duh, it's
>> a good thing, it's superior tech for a laptop. Don't just return it.

I think you (Joel) are kind of missing the point. The reason Microsoft has
retained an almost monopoly status in the desktop OS market is because it
runs the supposedly "necessary" Windows applications. I'm guessing the ARM
CPU versions of Windows computers have limitations in this regard.

> Unlike Apple which made sure that its compatibility layer allowed most
> existing software to continue working when they made the architecture
> change (from 68000 to PowerPC, from PowerPC to Intel, from Intel to
> ARM), Microsoft couldn't be bothered to do the same. They must have run
> out of resources.

I think you're right. Microsoft is always trying to "catch up" on new trends
without putting in the work and getting it right. They've got the "the
customer is our beta tester" attitude. Looks like another case of doing a
half-assed rollout is going bite them in the butt.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>
>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>
> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.

Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap.
However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe
where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same
way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their
reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to
energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-14 à 10:58, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-13 à 19:35, Joel a écrit :
>>> https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intels-interim-co-ceo-claims-retailers-are-concerned-by-return-rate-of-qualcomm-powered-machines
>>>
>>>
>>> Bottom line, people are having an issue with familiarity, returning a
>>> Windows ARM device. It didn't operate quite the same way. Duh, it's
>>> a good thing, it's superior tech for a laptop. Don't just return it.
>
> I think you (Joel) are kind of missing the point. The reason Microsoft has
> retained an almost monopoly status in the desktop OS market is because it
> runs the supposedly "necessary" Windows applications. I'm guessing the ARM
> CPU versions of Windows computers have limitations in this regard.

I haven't tried it myself but I would believe that the ARM version of
most programs doesn't exist and whatever compatibility layer Microsoft
offers is grossly insufficient to make the x86-64 software work reliably
or perform under the new architecture.

>> Unlike Apple which made sure that its compatibility layer allowed most
>> existing software to continue working when they made the architecture
>> change (from 68000 to PowerPC, from PowerPC to Intel, from Intel to
>> ARM), Microsoft couldn't be bothered to do the same. They must have run
>> out of resources.
>
> I think you're right. Microsoft is always trying to "catch up" on new trends
> without putting in the work and getting it right. They've got the "the
> customer is our beta tester" attitude. Looks like another case of doing a
> half-assed rollout is going bite them in the butt.

I will say this much: if ARM becomes the only game in town by the time I
am ready to upgrade from this machine, I won't be bothering with
Microsoft at all. By then, it won't bother me one bit that I will be
abandoning the rather large movie collection I've created in Microsoft
Films & TV if it means avoiding the exhibition of gross incompetence
Microsoft's venture into an ARM-only environment will be.

--
CrudeSausage

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.

My existing laptop is capable of that but I don't watch videos or play
games in a day's work.

On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:

> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.

Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.

On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>
>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>
>> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
>> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.
>
> Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap.
> However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe
> where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same
> way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their
> reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to
> energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether.

If things are getting that dire in Europe they're going to have to learn
to live without computers at all.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

Le 2024-12-15 à 17:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:49:22 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>
>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and
>>>> therefore improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit
>>>> it or not, people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a
>>>> whole day's work on a single charge and which won't increase
>>>> electrical bills.
>>>
>>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>>
>> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.
>
> Only with ARM-native code, of which there is precious little, with no sign
> of the situation improving.

Which is part of why I am suggesting that anyone interested in using an
ARM-equipped machine shouldn't hold their breath that Microsoft will do
a decent job and simply go straight to Apple. I am very much interested
in ARM machines which is why the next laptop is likely to be an Apple.

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-15 à 02:23, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>>>
>>>> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
>>>> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.
>>>
>>> Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap.
>>> However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe
>>> where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same
>>> way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their
>>> reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to
>>> energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether.
>>
>> If things are getting that dire in Europe they're going to have to learn
>> to live without computers at all.
>
> If this were the 80s and Europe were facing these issues, I imagine that
> either Atari or Commodore would have produced a very efficient computer
> which would only need to be charged once daily. Let's not forget how
> popular the ST and the Amiga were over there while they were failing
> miserably in North America. Because both companies are dead, the most
> likely scenario is that they will move to the efficient machines made by
> Apple or equipped with Qualcomm's processors. I do not think that their
> energy crisis is going to get better anytime soon.

I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical that the electricity needed to charge a laptop
is that big of a concern, even in Europe.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>
>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>
> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.

Apparently only "sort of."

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:49:22 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and
>>>>> therefore improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit
>>>>> it or not, people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a
>>>>> whole day's work on a single charge and which won't increase
>>>>> electrical bills.
>>>>
>>>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>>>
>>> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.
>>
>> Only with ARM-native code, of which there is precious little, with no sign
>> of the situation improving.
>
> Which is part of why I am suggesting that anyone interested in using an
> ARM-equipped machine shouldn't hold their breath that Microsoft will do
> a decent job and simply go straight to Apple. I am very much interested
> in ARM machines which is why the next laptop is likely to be an Apple.

But only if they play Windows video games?

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

Le 2024-12-16 à 05:27, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-15 à 02:23, RonB a écrit :
>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit :
>>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>>>>
>>>>> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
>>>>> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.
>>>>
>>>> Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap.
>>>> However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe
>>>> where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same
>>>> way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their
>>>> reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to
>>>> energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether.
>>>
>>> If things are getting that dire in Europe they're going to have to learn
>>> to live without computers at all.
>>
>> If this were the 80s and Europe were facing these issues, I imagine that
>> either Atari or Commodore would have produced a very efficient computer
>> which would only need to be charged once daily. Let's not forget how
>> popular the ST and the Amiga were over there while they were failing
>> miserably in North America. Because both companies are dead, the most
>> likely scenario is that they will move to the efficient machines made by
>> Apple or equipped with Qualcomm's processors. I do not think that their
>> energy crisis is going to get better anytime soon.
>
> I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical that the electricity needed to charge a laptop
> is that big of a concern, even in Europe.

In that case, you should look at how Germany's economy is tanking,
specifically the result of a lack of cheap oil coming in from Russia.
You can imagine that the smaller supply of oil will result in electrical
production being more expensive and for the power bills to be much
higher for the average German. As a result, they are not as likely as
they once might have been to buy the powerful PC which requires 800W of
power to play a game every hour.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-16 à 05:28, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>>
>>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>>
>> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.
>
> Apparently only "sort of."

Which is part of why I recommended that ARM enthusiasts go to Apple.
Only Apple actually follows through on their radical decisions.
Microsoft will announce something on Monday, do something half-assed on
Tuesday and abandon the project altogether on Wednesday. Their fortune
comes from the fact that people are reluctant to move away from x86-64.
If and once they do, Microsoft will have a lot of trouble catching up to
what Apple is doing.

--
CrudeSausage

Le 2024-12-16 à 05:29, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:49:22 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and
>>>>>> therefore improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit
>>>>>> it or not, people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a
>>>>>> whole day's work on a single charge and which won't increase
>>>>>> electrical bills.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>>>>
>>>> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.
>>>
>>> Only with ARM-native code, of which there is precious little, with no sign
>>> of the situation improving.
>>
>> Which is part of why I am suggesting that anyone interested in using an
>> ARM-equipped machine shouldn't hold their breath that Microsoft will do
>> a decent job and simply go straight to Apple. I am very much interested
>> in ARM machines which is why the next laptop is likely to be an Apple.
>
> But only if they play Windows video games?

I'm getting to a point where the only thing I want to play is NHL, and
that game is console-only. I don't have the time or energy to play those
3D games anymore.

--
CrudeSausage

On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-16 à 05:27, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 02:23, RonB a écrit :
>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 10:44, RonB a écrit :
>>>>>> On 2024-12-14, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>>>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>>>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>>>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While I agree that most people want longer battery life for their laptops, I
>>>>>> really don't think the cost of charging a laptop is that big of a concern.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not to a person who lives in an area where electricity is cheap.
>>>>> However, it is only going to become more expensive in places like Europe
>>>>> where its production depend on a resource acquired from Russia. The same
>>>>> way they switched to fuel-efficient or electric cars to lower their
>>>>> reliance on gasoline, they are probably going to switch to
>>>>> energy-efficient machines to reduce their need for electricity altogether.
>>>>
>>>> If things are getting that dire in Europe they're going to have to learn
>>>> to live without computers at all.
>>>
>>> If this were the 80s and Europe were facing these issues, I imagine that
>>> either Atari or Commodore would have produced a very efficient computer
>>> which would only need to be charged once daily. Let's not forget how
>>> popular the ST and the Amiga were over there while they were failing
>>> miserably in North America. Because both companies are dead, the most
>>> likely scenario is that they will move to the efficient machines made by
>>> Apple or equipped with Qualcomm's processors. I do not think that their
>>> energy crisis is going to get better anytime soon.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but I'm skeptical that the electricity needed to charge a laptop
>> is that big of a concern, even in Europe.
>
> In that case, you should look at how Germany's economy is tanking,
> specifically the result of a lack of cheap oil coming in from Russia.
> You can imagine that the smaller supply of oil will result in electrical
> production being more expensive and for the power bills to be much
> higher for the average German. As a result, they are not as likely as
> they once might have been to buy the powerful PC which requires 800W of
> power to play a game every hour.

I don't have to "imagine" that the lack of cheap Russian gas is hurting
Germany's economy (that's plain to see every day in the international news).
I'm just having trouble imagining that this is resulting in angst about the
amount of electricity required to charge a laptop.

I purposely use low power laptops and micro desktops because it's all I need
and I don't like the background sound of fans. These all run Intel CPUs
(except for the Wyse 5060 thin client desktop — it uses a low power AMD
CPU).

And, as usual, the standard disclaimer, I don't play Windows' video games or
use high-end (watt gobbling) GPUs. I'm not sure, though, that ARM chips will
be running these games in the future. (I guess we'll see.)

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-16 à 05:28, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and therefore
>>>>> improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit it or not,
>>>>> people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a whole day's work
>>>>> on a single charge and which won't increase electrical bills.
>>>>
>>>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>>>
>>> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.
>>
>> Apparently only "sort of."
>
> Which is part of why I recommended that ARM enthusiasts go to Apple.
> Only Apple actually follows through on their radical decisions.
> Microsoft will announce something on Monday, do something half-assed on
> Tuesday and abandon the project altogether on Wednesday. Their fortune
> comes from the fact that people are reluctant to move away from x86-64.
> If and once they do, Microsoft will have a lot of trouble catching up to
> what Apple is doing.

I get that. But does Apple run these high-end video games that require the
powerful (watt-gobbling) GPUs? I don't know, these video games hold no
interest for me.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-12-16 à 05:29, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-12-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> Le 2024-12-15 à 17:24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>> On Sun, 15 Dec 2024 08:49:22 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Le 2024-12-14 à 17:16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:56:30 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Higher performance per watt which leads to lower power use and
>>>>>>> therefore improved battery life. Whether Intel and AMD want to admit
>>>>>>> it or not, people _do_ want to have a computer which can handle a
>>>>>>> whole day's work on a single charge and which won't increase
>>>>>>> electrical bills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sure. But Windows can never give it to them.
>>>>>
>>>>> It can and it already does on Snapdragon offerings.
>>>>
>>>> Only with ARM-native code, of which there is precious little, with no sign
>>>> of the situation improving.
>>>
>>> Which is part of why I am suggesting that anyone interested in using an
>>> ARM-equipped machine shouldn't hold their breath that Microsoft will do
>>> a decent job and simply go straight to Apple. I am very much interested
>>> in ARM machines which is why the next laptop is likely to be an Apple.
>>
>> But only if they play Windows video games?
>
> I'm getting to a point where the only thing I want to play is NHL, and
> that game is console-only. I don't have the time or energy to play those
> 3D games anymore.

My kids have game consoles, but still want to play Windows video games. They
occasionally try to get me interested in some of them — but I guess I'm just
too old. The last video game I was fairly good at was Pong. About all I play
on my computer is Solitaire or Mahjong, and Pinochle on the smartphone.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 08:19:12 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> My kids have game consoles, but still want to play Windows video games.
> They occasionally try to get me interested in some of them — but I guess
> I'm just too old. The last video game I was fairly good at was Pong.
> About all I play on my computer is Solitaire or Mahjong, and Pinochle on
> the smartphone.

I made the mistake of opening Mahjongg and got hooked. I like the Debian/
Ubuntu version better than KMahjongg on the Fedora box.

There seems to be a AARP online version with leaderboards but I haven't
played it.