"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:p1rbkjltkdthmhujobr8klhv7ih5qgjfle@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
>>>>> product key from 2010 would've worked, because it'd been upgraded on
>>>>> my previous machine. I've since given both keys away, since I have
>>>>> zero intention of ever going back to Winblows.
>>>>
>>>> So that's another 'spent too much' research error on your part. Check.
>>>
>>> I don't mind, the keys can be reused by others. It's a minor write-
>>> off, I got my use out of Winblows when I used it, I will never want it
>>> back.
>>
>>That you "don't mind" means ...
>>
>>...that you're okay with spending 20% more than you really have to(!).
>
>
> I got my $200 worth out of Win10/11, between when I first booted 20H2
> in 2021, and switching to Linux in 2023. No biggie, the key is still
> valid for DFS to use, as my Win7 key is for my other friend.

And yet despite claiming that Win11 was so bad you had to revamp your
hardware and software.. you're claiming Win11 delivered good value to you.

Damn.. if we could just harness that spin we could solve the power needs of
the world.

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vi5i4c$3jtcs$10@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-25 03:18, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> He couldn't future-proof his video system.
>>>>>
>>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>> Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't
>>>> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet
>>>> video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm
>>>> glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
>>>
>>> /I'm/ not...
>>>
>>> ...but apparently you were.
>>
>>
>> No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card.
>> Big F'ing deal.
> If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the beginning.

More than that, by his own admissions that means earlier he wasn't surprised
his monitor was such a POS that he HAD to buy a video card he didn't need.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:s3kckj5omrimu2r25rnj5mfr02d0bhafi1@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> He couldn't future-proof his video system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't
>>>>> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet
>>>>> video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm
>>>>> glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.
>>>>
>>>> /I'm/ not...
>>>>
>>>> ...but apparently you were.
>>>
>>> No I wasn't surprised, and I handled it, I bought an inexpensive card.
>>> Big F'ing deal.
>>If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the beginning.
>
>
> That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple that
> you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
> fucking moron?

Says the person who couldn't get a monitor to work with his compatible
hardware.

> I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
> would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
> card, which made a large difference.

You 'thought'? I thought you were the person who was an expert on computer
software and hardware. I mean it's a "high end system" so why did you need
to buy extra hardware that you didn't need?

> It also gave me a second video
> port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
> travesty, huh? Derp.

Which off course you didn't plan on or you would have provided for that when
you built the system in the first place. It was only after you decided you
fucked up that you had the capacity and now could do so... even though this
is the first hint you've ever made to having a dual monitor setup. Sounds
like someone making it up as their errors are pointed out.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:84mckjlguej13g63nm3hrf1h48tltt2giv@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> If you hadn't been surprised, you have bought the card from the
>>>> beginning.
>>>
>>> That's idiotic, are you so bamboozled and brainwashed by Apple that
>>> you don't understand modifying a real, assembled desktop machine, you
>>> fucking moron? I thought, as chrisv blindly asserted, that the CPU
>>> would work fine, when it didn't, I did an upgrade with a discrete
>>> card, which made a large difference. It also gave me a second video
>>> port, which allows me to use my TV as a monitor, too. What a
>>> travesty, huh? Derp.
>>I understand it fine.
>>
>>I've done it.
>>
>>And a low end Mac Mini supports up to THREE displays with 6K resolution
>>on two of them and one more with 5K resolution (if on Thunderbolt) or 4K
>>resolution (if on HDMI).
>>
>>And that's for $600.
>>
>>So, yeah: you paying more than you had to for a CPU with an integrated
>>GPU (yeah: I got that wrong in another post. Sorry) and then having to
>>pay for a discrete video card...
>>
>>...that was a travesty of good sense.
>>
>>:-)
>
>
> I always had the intention to install a video card if there were a
> reason to.

Which reason turned out to be your own ineptitude.

> The 4K monitor gave me such a reason.

IOW, you fucked up and had to spend more money because of that.

> I bought a
> motherboard that gave me options.

But apparently not the ones you needed. So now you paid more for a
motherboard that had options you are using, and even more for add-ons to
give you the options you do need which aren't supported by the options you
chose.

> The notion that I could've bought
> the CPU without integrated video is meaningless, trivial difference.

Except that you claim to know what you were doing when you made this "high
end" system, while attacking cheaper system that not only would have given
you all of that but much more.

I mean the very reason you gave for needing the extra system memory would
have been better performed on the system you tried to attack.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:69kckjh3lg6go3mf44dl54dk18ksei2q7i@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>On 2024-11-25 05:59, Joel wrote:
>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
>>>> video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display,
>>>> whereas
>>>> the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle
>>>> five.
>>>
>>> I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It
>>> was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big
>>> whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
>>
>>The fact that it was integrated into the motherboard doesn't make it any
>>less a video controller, doofus.
>>
>>You really aren't very 1337 if you don't understand that fact.
>
>
> It was integrated into the CPU, it's still there, I could put a third
> monitor on, I guess, and utilize it along with the NVIDIA card, but
> then again I could also buy a Mac like your dumb ass - to speak of
> things I will not be doing.

Translation: I suck at computers, ok, quit rubbing my nose in that fact.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vamckj5vg8n9utkhhiqssmqio69g60lu4f@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that? It
>>>>> was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K. Big
>>>>> whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
>>>>
>>>> The fact that it was integrated into the motherboard doesn't make it
>>>> any
>>>> less a video controller, doofus.
>>>>
>>>> You really aren't very 1337 if you don't understand that fact.
>>>
>>> It was integrated into the CPU, it's still there, I could put a third
>>> monitor on, I guess, and utilize it along with the NVIDIA card, but
>>> then again I could also buy a Mac like your dumb ass - to speak of
>>> things I will not be doing.
>>If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in
>>terms of video.
>>
>>:-)
>
>
> With 256 GB storage? Heh.

Sure, just buy an external drive with a compatible interface, plug it in and
good..
I mean a great computer expert like yourself shouldn't have any issues
doing that.

I mean, most of what you would need such storage for would be for data files
and other such storage.. not for the OS or programs.

Get you a nice 8TB for a mere $319 +s/h

Oh, let me guess.. you use the main drive for all your data storage..

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:v0ockjd17rff2pbsrpt8ral4nm9850uqub@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in
>>>> terms of video.
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> With 256 GB storage? Heh.
>>You get that you could increase that, right?
>>
>>Way to miss the point!
>
>
> OK, well, the Web site says to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
> $400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
> to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.

I can take you from 256GB to 256GB + 8TB for around $320. that's a combined
total of 8.25T

I mean you do know that data files do NOT have to be on the main drive,
right?

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tiqckjdr9ueccqtsam4eb2tndhkdc2kq0f@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> If you bought a Mac Mini for $600 you'd get support for a lot more in
>>>>>> terms of video.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> With 256 GB storage? Heh.
>>>> You get that you could increase that, right?
>>>>
>>>> Way to miss the point!
>>>
>>> OK, well, the Web site says to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
>>> $400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
>>> to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
>>
>>Yup. And you get a much more capable system for only a little more than
>>you ended up paying; an insignificant amount over a reasonable system
>>life.
>
>
> I paid under $1000, or so, not counting the software purchases, since
> I ended up using Linux exclusively. And my CPU is virtually as good
> as the M1, the benchmarks showed the difference isn't really
> significant. Face it, Apple is a scam.

Except for better hardware that actually works, and more hardware, and more
capacity and unless you REQUIRE internal storage pretty much as much storage
as you might want.

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:vi6vjf$3vl3n$1@dont-email.me...
> On 11/26/24 8:48 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> to go from 256 GB to 1 TB is an extra
>>>>>> $400. So, what is your point, pray tell? So is going from 16 GB RAM
>>>>>> to 32 GB, BTW. So, $1400, not $600.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yup. And you get a much more capable system for only a little more
>>>>> than
>>>>> you ended up paying; an insignificant amount over a reasonable system
>>>>> life.
>
> Less than Joel actually spent, by accepting SSD performance that's only
> equal to his current, instead of 2x as fast by using a external, and skip
> the RAM upgrade as a BS claim:
>
> Base Mini with SSD bumped to 512 +1TB external SSD: $800 +$100 = $900.

or if he wanted to go crazy bump it to 8TB for around $320 or about what he
paid for his whole system plus the updates.

> Outcome: significantly superior performing hardware, and with 1.5TB total
> storage instead of just 1TB...for 22% less money.

or over 8 times as much for the same money.

> And one _still_ has the option of running Linux on it, plus there's zero
> financial cost to go back to MacOS if you decide that was a mistake.

Now, now. Joel never makes mistakes.. well except for buying an expensive
monitor he claims his system couldn't support, Paying for software he
couldn't handle, and spending lord knows how many hours of his time trying
to download, install, and integrate Linux into his system. Only to end up
with inferior hardware.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kk7ekj59h7j074o9a8jjovqb1oam4c9qc4@4ax.com...
> Yon Wane <"yonwane-lol!"@pac2.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'll take Harris's manners of speech over Trump's rambling nonsense,
>>> are you kidding? The fantasies he drooled out, at those rallies full
>>> of uneducable crackers? What a farce.
>>
>>Let's revisit what you think about those "fantasies" in six months. I'm
>>personally looking forward to reality shock for indoctrinated libtards.
>>
>>As for the uneducable crackers, are you referring to the illiterate genZ
>>tranny 'tards, or the left-wing smart phone operators who can't even
>>pass 30, 60, or 90 day probationary hiring periods?
>
>
> We aren't going to live in a dictatorship.

But you keep trying to vote for one.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7pqckjl8gloc5kp01co6pafua1gc43qaqu@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>On 2024-11-25 04:44, Joel wrote:
>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> 32 GB [RAM] is about right, for my usage.
>>>>
>>>> Not today it isn't: it is still being underutilized at ~3 years system
>>>> age, which undermines your claimed argument of the value of moduarlity
>>>> for lower lifecycle costs. Looks like you were 5+ years too early in
>>>> spending money for RAM that you won't really need until after 2027.
>>>
>>> As my computer stays booted up, RAM use approaches the full quantity,
>>> including cache. I watch this in System Monitor.
>>
>>So Linux is bad at memory management, is it?
>
>
> It's not a matter of managing it, it's a matter of using what's
> available. I give the system enough to leave an insane amount of
> stuff in cache.

Analysis based on data provided would seem to indicate otherwise.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>>> Apple rips people off. Why is 256 GB [storage]
>>>>>> still the basic option? In almost 2025? Retarded.
>>>>> Better question:
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do so many people find that it's worth it to pay that much to have a
>>>>> Mac?
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> Brain-damaged Sprite guzzlers can't handle Linux, and want to be hand-
>>>> held by Apple, what else is new.
>>>
>>> Riiiiiiiiight.
>>>
>>> Everyone who values things differently than you must be "brain-damaged".
>>>
>>> LOL
>>
>> So it reflects having an intact brain, to pay $400 extra for something
>> i got for barely over $100, 3 1/2 years ago? "Riiiiight".
>It can, yes.
>
>Because you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.

In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway. Congrats.
Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years. Is
it superfluous? Maybe. But then again, it's elite.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-27 11:13, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Apple rips people off. Why is 256 GB [storage]
>>>>>>> still the basic option? In almost 2025? Retarded.
>>>>>> Better question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why do so many people find that it's worth it to pay that much to have a
>>>>>> Mac?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Brain-damaged Sprite guzzlers can't handle Linux, and want to be hand-
>>>>> held by Apple, what else is new.
>>>>
>>>> Riiiiiiiiight.
>>>>
>>>> Everyone who values things differently than you must be "brain-damaged".
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>
>>> So it reflects having an intact brain, to pay $400 extra for something
>>> i got for barely over $100, 3 1/2 years ago? "Riiiiight".
>> It can, yes.
>>
>> Because you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>
>
> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway. Congrats.
> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years. Is
> it superfluous? Maybe. But then again, it's elite.
No, that's not what I said or meant at all.

You buy a computer SYSTEM.

It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.

Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.

Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
well as a Mac does? Absolutely.

And having empty space isn't "elite".

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>>> The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
>>>
>>> It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
>>
>> Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
>> lifetime of the machine.
>
>Incorrect: your first video controller was the one that came integrated
>into your i5 (the "F" version is cheaper & comes without) which you paid
>for. That makes the NVIDIA card you bought later the second one.

??? Are you on acid? I didn't even consider buying a different
version of the CPU. Never even occurred to me in any respect. I had
seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
realizing there was a non-video-containing version.

>>>>>> M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
>>>>>
>>>>> With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
>>>>
>>>> It goes to show how much they know.
>>>
>>> The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
>>
>> Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
>> software in recent years.
>
>Not in this you're not, for you've shown us that you've spent 30% more
>(that we know of) than you had to for your capability.

I got a great deal, period.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 11/27/24 2:29 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-11-27 11:13, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> Apple rips people off.  Why is 256 GB [storage]
>>>>>>>> still the basic option?  In almost 2025?  Retarded.
>>>>>>> Better question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do so many people find that it's worth it to pay that much to
>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>> Mac?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brain-damaged Sprite guzzlers can't handle Linux, and want to be
>>>>>> hand-
>>>>>> held by Apple, what else is new.
>>>>>
>>>>> Riiiiiiiiight.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone who values things differently than you must be "brain-
>>>>> damaged".
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>
>>>> So it reflects having an intact brain, to pay $400 extra for something
>>>> i got for barely over $100, 3 1/2 years ago?  "Riiiiight".
>>>
>>> It can, yes.
>>>
>>> Because you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>
>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway.  Congrats.
>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years.  Is
>> it superfluous?  Maybe.  But then again, it's elite.
>
> No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>
> You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>
> It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>
> Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>
> Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
> well as a Mac does? Absolutely.
>
> And having empty space isn't "elite".

Particularly since having the storage be internal is primarily only a
concern today for people who need the mobility of a laptop.

Everyone else who's on a desktop can readily buy an external SSD,
including the URL link that Joel posted earlier today...

"WD_BLACK 1TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drive - Gen4
PCIe, M.2 2280, Up to 7,300 MB/s - WDS100T2X0E ... $79.99"

<https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-1tb-black-sn850x-nvme/p/N82E16820250243>

and if it doesn't include an enclosure, add one:

"ORICO Aluminum M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure, Tool-Free 10Gbps USB C Adapter,
USB 3.2 M.2 NVMe Reader, External SSD Case Thunderbolt 3 Compatible,
Supports 4TB 2230/2242/2260/2280 PCIe M-Key SSDs-PWM2-BK ... $11.69"

<https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-0003-002G7>

Or of course, check to see if another model which comes with one is cheaper:

"SAMSUNG T7 Portable SSD 1TB - Up to 1050 MB/s - USB 3.2 Gen 2 External
Solid State Drive, Gray (MU-PC1T0T/AM) ... $89.99"

<https://www.newegg.com/samsung-t7-1tb-usb-3-2-gen-2/p/N82E16820147767>

-hh

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> So it reflects having an intact brain, to pay $400 extra for something
>>>> i got for barely over $100, 3 1/2 years ago? "Riiiiight".
>>> It can, yes.
>>>
>>> Because you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>
>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway. Congrats.
>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years. Is
>> it superfluous? Maybe. But then again, it's elite.
>No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>
>You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>
>It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>
>Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>
>Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
>well as a Mac does? Absolutely.

How is that not proving my point, that you're rationalizing?

>And having empty space isn't "elite".

And yet Apple charges such a premium for it, that you would think it
was ...

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>On 2024-11-27 11:19, Joel wrote:
>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
>>>
>>> It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
>>
>> Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
>> lifetime of the machine.
>
>Uh, you did.
>
>You paid once for a CPU with an integrated GPU...

So what?

>...then paid again for a separate card when the "expert" couldn't figure
>out how to make his integrated GPU work with a 4K monitor.

It's not that it didn't work *at all*, it had erroneous results that
were intolerable. Misaligned windows, etc.

>>>>>> M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
>>>>>
>>>>> With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
>>>>
>>>> It goes to show how much they know.
>>>
>>> The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
>>
>> Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
>> software in recent years.
>????????????????????????????????????

It's true, I've seen the evolution of Win10, and of Win11 up to 23H2/
Copilot. But future iterations, I will not be an expert on M$ OSes,
because I'll be using Linux from the beginning, on new devices I may
obtain.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>On 11/27/24 2:29 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-11-27 11:13, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>>
>>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway.  Congrats.
>>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years.  Is
>>> it superfluous?  Maybe.  But then again, it's elite.
>>
>> No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>>
>> You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>>
>> It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>>
>> Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>>
>> Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
>> well as a Mac does? Absolutely.
>>
>> And having empty space isn't "elite".
>
>Particularly since having the storage be internal is primarily only a
>concern today for people who need the mobility of a laptop.

Utter nonsense, that's even worse rationalization than Alan's.

>Everyone else who's on a desktop can readily buy an external SSD,
>including the URL link that Joel posted earlier today...
>
>"WD_BLACK 1TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drive - Gen4
>PCIe, M.2 2280, Up to 7,300 MB/s - WDS100T2X0E ... $79.99"
>
><https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-1tb-black-sn850x-nvme/p/N82E16820250243>
>
>and if it doesn't include an enclosure, add one:
>
>"ORICO Aluminum M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure, Tool-Free 10Gbps USB C Adapter,
>USB 3.2 M.2 NVMe Reader, External SSD Case Thunderbolt 3 Compatible,
>Supports 4TB 2230/2242/2260/2280 PCIe M-Key SSDs-PWM2-BK ... $11.69"
>
><https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-0003-002G7>
>
>
>Or of course, check to see if another model which comes with one is cheaper:
>
>"SAMSUNG T7 Portable SSD 1TB - Up to 1050 MB/s - USB 3.2 Gen 2 External
>Solid State Drive, Gray (MU-PC1T0T/AM) ... $89.99"
>
><https://www.newegg.com/samsung-t7-1tb-usb-3-2-gen-2/p/N82E16820147767>

USB? Come on. You're just lapping up Apple's spoiled milk.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-27 12:12, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> On 11/27/24 2:29 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-11-27 11:13, Joel wrote:
>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>>>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway.  Congrats.
>>>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years.  Is
>>>> it superfluous?  Maybe.  But then again, it's elite.
>>>
>>> No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>>>
>>> You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>>>
>>> It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>>>
>>> Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>>>
>>> Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
>>> well as a Mac does? Absolutely.
>>>
>>> And having empty space isn't "elite".
>>
>> Particularly since having the storage be internal is primarily only a
>> concern today for people who need the mobility of a laptop.
>
>
> Utter nonsense, that's even worse rationalization than Alan's.

Why? Why is it nonsense?

>
>
>> Everyone else who's on a desktop can readily buy an external SSD,
>> including the URL link that Joel posted earlier today...
>>
>> "WD_BLACK 1TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drive - Gen4
>> PCIe, M.2 2280, Up to 7,300 MB/s - WDS100T2X0E ... $79.99"
>>
>> <https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-1tb-black-sn850x-nvme/p/N82E16820250243>
>>
>> and if it doesn't include an enclosure, add one:
>>
>> "ORICO Aluminum M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure, Tool-Free 10Gbps USB C Adapter,
>> USB 3.2 M.2 NVMe Reader, External SSD Case Thunderbolt 3 Compatible,
>> Supports 4TB 2230/2242/2260/2280 PCIe M-Key SSDs-PWM2-BK ... $11.69"
>>
>> <https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-0003-002G7>
>>
>>
>> Or of course, check to see if another model which comes with one is cheaper:
>>
>> "SAMSUNG T7 Portable SSD 1TB - Up to 1050 MB/s - USB 3.2 Gen 2 External
>> Solid State Drive, Gray (MU-PC1T0T/AM) ... $89.99"
>>
>> <https://www.newegg.com/samsung-t7-1tb-usb-3-2-gen-2/p/N82E16820147767>
>
>
> USB? Come on. You're just lapping up Apple's spoiled milk.
What's wrong with USB 3.2 at 1050MB/s for a data storage drive...

....I mean apart from "bragging rights" about how your system is "elite"?

On 2024-11-27 13:31:05 +0000, Joel said:

> Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-27 00:15:06 +0000, Joel said:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And it had how much storage, again? Heh.
>>>>
>>>> You imagine that as some great "gotcha", do you?
>>>
>>> Yeah, it is, because it's where Apple rips people off. Why is 256 GB
>>> still the basic option? In almost 2025? Retarded.
>>
>> Because you obviously don't understand Apple's CPUs and / or stuck in
>> the same old MHz-myth style nonsense that caused Apple to swap to Intel
>> CPU years ago. Apple's chips simply don't actually need as much RAM as
>> Intel CISC CPUs do.
>
>
> The 256 GB is storage, not RAM, and why would RISC need *less* RAM?
> You're talking out of your ass, apparently.

Another moron troll for the killfile. :-\

On 2024-11-27 12:01, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> So it reflects having an intact brain, to pay $400 extra for something
>>>>> i got for barely over $100, 3 1/2 years ago? "Riiiiight".
>>>> It can, yes.
>>>>
>>>> Because you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>>
>>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway. Congrats.
>>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years. Is
>>> it superfluous? Maybe. But then again, it's elite.
>> No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>>
>> You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>>
>> It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>>
>> Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>>
>> Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
>> well as a Mac does? Absolutely.
>
>
> How is that not proving my point, that you're rationalizing?

Because I'm using a complete system that works well for me.

When I bought my current machine, I considered my space requirements and
got the 1TB option, and that cost me an additional $250.

I didn't do it for "bragging rights" or to declare my system to be "elite".

I did it because I USE the space.

And I paid Apple's premium because life experience (more than 30 years
using, selling, and supporting both Macs and Windows personal computers)
has shown me the value of a system that works as well as a Mac does.

My entire computer is the tool I purchased, and I looked at the entire
price of the tool I needed and the value of that tool to me and I paid
it. All in, the price as $2,200

I fully expect this tool to serve me well for the next 5-7 years, so the
monthly cost is no more than $36.67.

>
>
>> And having empty space isn't "elite".
>
>
> And yet Apple charges such a premium for it, that you would think it
> was ...
Nope. Rational people don't think that paying for something they're not
using is in any way, shape or form "elite"?

There's a saying that you should learn:

'There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a
little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider
price only are this man's lawful prey.'

On 2024-11-27 12:05, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
>>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
>>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
>>>>
>>>> It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
>>>
>>> Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
>>> lifetime of the machine.
>>
>> Incorrect: your first video controller was the one that came integrated
>> into your i5 (the "F" version is cheaper & comes without) which you paid
>> for. That makes the NVIDIA card you bought later the second one.
>
>
> ??? Are you on acid? I didn't even consider buying a different
> version of the CPU. Never even occurred to me in any respect. I had
> seen a Linux OEM offering a prefab machine with the i5-10400, and
> began the process of designing my box with that chip, not even
> realizing there was a non-video-containing version.

So you're not as expert as you claim...

On 2024-11-27 11:45, -hh wrote:
> On 11/27/24 2:29 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-11-27 11:13, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apple rips people off.  Why is 256 GB [storage]
>>>>>>>>> still the basic option?  In almost 2025?  Retarded.
>>>>>>>> Better question:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why do so many people find that it's worth it to pay that much
>>>>>>>> to have a
>>>>>>>> Mac?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brain-damaged Sprite guzzlers can't handle Linux, and want to be
>>>>>>> hand-
>>>>>>> held by Apple, what else is new.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Riiiiiiiiight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone who values things differently than you must be "brain-
>>>>>> damaged".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>
>>>>> So it reflects having an intact brain, to pay $400 extra for something
>>>>> i got for barely over $100, 3 1/2 years ago?  "Riiiiight".
>>>>
>>>> It can, yes.
>>>>
>>>> Because you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>>
>>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway.  Congrats.
>>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years.  Is
>>> it superfluous?  Maybe.  But then again, it's elite.
>>
>> No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>>
>> You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>>
>> It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>>
>> Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>>
>> Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works
>> as well as a Mac does? Absolutely.
>>
>> And having empty space isn't "elite".
>
> Particularly since having the storage be internal is primarily only a
> concern today for people who need the mobility of a laptop.

Exactly so.

I have a MacBook Air (M3) with a 1TB drive precisely because I need to
take it everywhere.

On 2024-11-27 12:08, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-27 11:19, Joel wrote:
>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The CPU's video is incidental to having a CPU. The NVIDIA card is an
>>>>> add-on that was something I'd considered as a possibility all along.
>>>>> WTF are you harping on that for?
>>>>
>>>> It would be incidental if you hadn't ended up paying twice for video.
>>>
>>> Uh, I didn't. The NVIDIA card is the only card I've put in, in the
>>> lifetime of the machine.
>>
>> Uh, you did.
>>
>> You paid once for a CPU with an integrated GPU...
>
>
> So what?
>
>
>> ...then paid again for a separate card when the "expert" couldn't figure
>> out how to make his integrated GPU work with a 4K monitor.
>
>
> It's not that it didn't work *at all*, it had erroneous results that
> were intolerable. Misaligned windows, etc.

That would be "didn't work".

I guess your "expertise" isn't worth much, huh?

>
>
>>>>>>> M$ is not in the consumer's interest. Linux is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With a ~65% market share, how is MS not clearly consumers' #1 choice?
>>>>>
>>>>> It goes to show how much they know.
>>>>
>>>> The combined knowledge of three people is more than what you know...
>>>
>>> Doubtful, I'm an expert, having used and observed the hardware and
>>> software in recent years.
>> ????????????????????????????????????
>
>
> It's true, I've seen the evolution of Win10, and of Win11 up to 23H2/
> Copilot. But future iterations, I will not be an expert on M$ OSes,
> because I'll be using Linux from the beginning, on new devices I may
> obtain.
"Seen the evolution of" does not mean "expert".

I've "seen the evolution of" the airplane from the first fighter jets I
saw as a kid (F-101 Voodoos) to the current stealth F22, etc.

Doesn't make me an expert.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>On 2024-11-27 12:12, Joel wrote:
>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/27/24 2:29 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-11-27 11:13, Joel wrote:
>>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> you don't buy an SSD just to have one on a shelf.
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words, because Apple requires these payments, you rationalize
>>>>> that you didn't really need so much empty space, anyway.  Congrats.
>>>>> Meanwhile, I already had that much empty space, going back years.  Is
>>>>> it superfluous?  Maybe.  But then again, it's elite.
>>>>
>>>> No, that's not what I said or meant at all.
>>>>
>>>> You buy a computer SYSTEM.
>>>>
>>>> It's value to the end user is what the whole SYSTEM can do.
>>>>
>>>> Does Apple charge a premium for expanding the storage? Absolutely.
>>>>
>>>> Is it worth it in order to get a personal computer system that works as
>>>> well as a Mac does? Absolutely.
>>>>
>>>> And having empty space isn't "elite".
>>>
>>> Particularly since having the storage be internal is primarily only a
>>> concern today for people who need the mobility of a laptop.
>>
>> Utter nonsense, that's even worse rationalization than Alan's.
>
>Why? Why is it nonsense?

Because it's comparing fundamentally different things. I could add
another SSD, without even removing my first one. Whereas with Apple,
I have to decide up front exactly what the internal storage will
always be. It's pathetic.

>>> Everyone else who's on a desktop can readily buy an external SSD,
>>> including the URL link that Joel posted earlier today...
>>>
>>> "WD_BLACK 1TB SN850X NVMe Internal Gaming SSD Solid State Drive - Gen4
>>> PCIe, M.2 2280, Up to 7,300 MB/s - WDS100T2X0E ... $79.99"
>>>
>>> <https://www.newegg.com/western-digital-1tb-black-sn850x-nvme/p/N82E16820250243>
>>>
>>> and if it doesn't include an enclosure, add one:
>>>
>>> "ORICO Aluminum M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure, Tool-Free 10Gbps USB C Adapter,
>>> USB 3.2 M.2 NVMe Reader, External SSD Case Thunderbolt 3 Compatible,
>>> Supports 4TB 2230/2242/2260/2280 PCIe M-Key SSDs-PWM2-BK ... $11.69"
>>>
>>> <https://www.newegg.com/p/0VN-0003-002G7>
>>>
>>>
>>> Or of course, check to see if another model which comes with one is cheaper:
>>>
>>> "SAMSUNG T7 Portable SSD 1TB - Up to 1050 MB/s - USB 3.2 Gen 2 External
>>> Solid State Drive, Gray (MU-PC1T0T/AM) ... $89.99"
>>>
>>> <https://www.newegg.com/samsung-t7-1tb-usb-3-2-gen-2/p/N82E16820147767>
>>
>> USB? Come on. You're just lapping up Apple's spoiled milk.
>What's wrong with USB 3.2 at 1050MB/s for a data storage drive...
>
>...I mean apart from "bragging rights" about how your system is "elite"?

You can make excuses, rationalize, but Apple is just crapware, is the
truth. They take you for a sucker.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.