"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:agr4kjdc9u1ghe5f5it4pqjb203676cke9@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
>>>>> the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
>>>>> shit.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
>>>>
>>>> Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
>>>>
>>>> ...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
>>>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
>>>
>>> I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
>>> but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
>>> to get what I have.
>>
>>You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
>>"piece of shit".
>>
>>What a shocker.
>
>
> Relative to its price.

So, it's not about actual performance or the fact your job might be riding
on it.. just as long as it's cheap.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5pu4kjhk95ei6nq88i8clllbu6n4m7u47b@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
>>>>
>>>> ...or is that just more of your bullshit?
>>>
>>> The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
>>> interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
>>> cares when Linux is a thing?
>>That's not an answer to why you claimed:
>>
>>'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
>>
>>So I'll ask again.
>
>
> OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
> clear enough?

Show us that it's "junk software", then tell us why the professionals use
it.

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vhtvmr$1sst2$8@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-23 17:03, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...or is that just more of your bullshit?
>>>>
>>>> The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
>>>> interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
>>>> cares when Linux is a thing?
>>> That's not an answer to why you claimed:
>>>
>>> 'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
>>>
>>> So I'll ask again.
>>
>>
>> OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
>> clear enough?
>>
>
> You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".

Well, at least he's stopped blaming the hardware....

Now I would love to see the performance numbers between his OS and what he
considers "junk software".

>
> That much is entirely clear.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aj25kj1mjp2b0j8f90o5vkgol3nc85s9ir@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> you claimed:
>>>>
>>>> 'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
>>>>
>>>> So I'll ask again.
>>>
>>> OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
>>> clear enough?
>>
>>You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
>>
>>That much is entirely clear.
>
>
> It's a toy, it's not serious,

So how many high end professionals find your system to be a "must have"?

> I mean you have very specific
> applications for macOS that are large, e.g. video editing, but not
> everyone does these things.

I see, so unless it's something EVERYONE uses.. then it's junk software..

In which metric Windows is FAR better than Linux.

> For the average personal-computer user,
> it's just wasted potential,

Windows

>you have this nice hardware running
> inferior software, it's powered by Unix to be sure, and has that
> potential within it, but most never realize that.

EVERY modern OS has Unix as it's base.

Windows is powered by Unix.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ka45kjhqdidrs3bif62m6fil7efa0dq3fv@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> you claimed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I'll ask again.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
>>>>> clear enough?
>>>>
>>>> You haven't yet explained WHY it is "junk software".
>>>>
>>>> That much is entirely clear.
>>>
>>> It's a toy, it's not serious, I mean you have very specific
>>
>>In what way is it "not serious"?
>
>
> They just aren't very good programmers,

In what way, and why do you think those who programmed Linux are in any
manner superior?

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:nuu4kjhbujdhuq6sskv5nvlo175mg52ddu@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>On 11/23/24 6:11 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
>>> but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
>>> to get what I have.
>>
>>Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
>>doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.
>>
>>So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
>>laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.
>>
>>OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
>>then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
>>you afford to go?"
>
>
> My CPU is a 2020 model, 10th gen Intel. My motherboard can accept
> 10th or 11th gen CPUs.

So to be clear, your computer is nothing special and would almost certainly
be unable to compete against a system you claim is "junk".

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:j407kjd0ce6pm3qa435j0un1cofenjeghr@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>>>>> I paid less to get high-end gear.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end"
>>>>>> gear?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that you'd
>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
>>>
>>> It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
>>> expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
>>
>>Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid more
>>for a name(!).
>
>
> The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
> people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
> durability and quality.

So as long as it's well built and last a long time.. it doesn't need to be
fast.

That's what you're saying.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9757kjp8pi1klqhk7didm6jdhgo3juutdn@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
>>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I paid less to get high-end gear.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-
>>>>>>>>> end" gear?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that
>>>>>>>> you'd
>>>>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
>>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
>>>>>> expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid
>>>>> more
>>>>> for a name(!).
>>>>
>>>> The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
>>>> people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
>>>> durability and quality.
>>>
>>> You're the one who literally said:
>>> "bragging rights".
>>
>>While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
>>
>>Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
>>
>>...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
>>can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
>
>
> Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.

Translation: I don’t care if it's fast or slow...

> I care about having a
> modern, reliable, functional system.

Which can be dirt slow as long as it looks good....

> And not breaking the bank to get
> it.

....and is cheap

So what were you saying about performance just a bit ago?

> Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.

Yea, like Linux isn't regularly being upgraded and updated.....

I mean I'm sure you are running a Linux x.x that you go 20 years ago..
because we know how much you have raged on MS for updating the Windows OS

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vi06uu$2dfb9$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-24 13:06, Joel wrote:
>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>> On 11/24/24 3:21 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-11-24 11:39, Joel wrote:
>>>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I paid less to get high-end gear.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-
>>>>>>>>>> end" gear?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a Gigabyte AORUS motherboard, not some no-name junk that
>>>>>>>>> you'd
>>>>>>>>> get in a prefab box on Newegg for a hot price, ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sorry, doesn't mean much to me: what's its salient characteristics
>>>>>>>> which relate to it being "high-end"? For example, is it PCI5 or 4?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's meant for elite gaming systems, I wanted it for the
>>>>>>> expandability, bragging rights, reliability over time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bragging rights? I certainly hope you're not saying that you paid
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> for a name(!).
>>>>>
>>>>> The motherboard is more relevant to overall quality than a lot of
>>>>> people might realize. It's not paying for a name, it's paying for
>>>>> durability and quality.
>>>>
>>>> You're the one who literally said:
>>>> "bragging rights".
>>>
>>> While also snipping a whole bunch of other objective metrics.
>>>
>>> Gosh, it musta been another "accident"...
>>>
>>> ...instead of a tacit admission through avoidance that he knows that he
>>> can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
>>
>>
>> Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks. I care about having a
>> modern, reliable, functional system. And not breaking the bank to get
>> it. Apple and M$ are endlessly requiring upgrades.
>>
>
> So you claim that Apple's hardware is "crap for the money"...
>
> ...but won't actually show how much you paid or how good it is.
>
> Got it.

I bet he has worse performance than the system he claimed was 'junk'.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jd7kj5qtkqvmsbbne6apflr9e26cbke8o@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>> he [JWC] knows that he
>>>> can't support his assertion that he made a rational product decision.
>>>
>>> Incorrect. I don't care about benchmarks.
>>
>>But you're trying to make comparisons of different products, so you need
>>to have some objective methodology to assess each one's relative value.
>>Without that, you're just making a blind "Oranges vs Kiwis" comparison
>>without knowing what either fruit even tastes like.
>
>
> I'm not doing data processing, I'm using a computer as an Internet
> portal, music player, that kind of thing. macOS and Winblows are
> grossly inferior to Linux, for my purposes.

ROTFLMAO.... and after you have jumped on people, myself included, for
having older hardware/software to do THE EXACT SAME THING!

Beside, I'm pretty sure that both MacOS and Windows does EVERYTHING you
claim you need and both will do so much more seamlessly and faultlessly than
what you're using.

>The upgrade is of the whole system, yes, that's the point. Landfills
>and third-world countries receive the wasted corporate crapware
>systems. Whereas my box is still virtually brand new, to me.

ROTFLMAO....

I seem to recall not that long ago how you complained about how 'dated' my
system was and how I should throw it out and buy a 'new' better system.

How quickly we see that even your own metrics are inconsistent and
arbitrary.

How amusing to watch Joel's little computer house of cards implode.

For others:
M/B: ASUS Z170I Pro Gaming
CPU: i7-7700K
Memory: 16GB DDR4
Drives: 1Tb M.2 NVMe (Main)
5Tb 3.5" SATA (Storage)
2Tb 2.5" SSD SATA (Backup)
Case SilverStone SG05
OS: Win 7/11 in dual boot configuration.

This is a moderate portable system I use for work while on the road, and
while not particularly intended for gaming can perform adequately for any
games I would be playing on the road.
While it is admittedly nothing overwhelming it is a reasonably powerful and
highly portable system that accepts most full size dual slot graphics cards
with the necessary performance to run most games at a reasonable level of
speed. Yet, Joel considers it 'junk' purely because I still run Win 7/11
because I flat out refuse to buy newer versions of software that I already
own but which isn't supported by Win11.

I will note, his hardware, is not really that much different than mine which
he considers 'junk' only because I chose not to run Linux.

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vhter2$1rdgn$3@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
>> Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>>> that it's Unix.
>>>
>>> But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
>>> your use of social media ebonics.
>>
>>
>> I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
>> Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
>>
>
> So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
> computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
> necessary.
>
> There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
> distributor-using cars, too.
>
> But most people want to just get in and drive.

ROTFLMAO.. Nailed it

-hh wrote:

> Joel wrote:
>>
>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>
>When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
>
>For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
>
>After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
>admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end'
>configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.

Joel is not being fair. But neither is attacking him for adding a
video card to his system. There's obviously nothing wrong with such
an upgrade.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:o6h4kjd3rdakap493chs9dulrbmvr8qfqf@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
>>> Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
>>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>>>> that it's Unix.
>>>>
>>>> But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
>>>> your use of social media ebonics.
>>>
>>> I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
>>> Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
>>
>>So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
>>computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
>>necessary.
>>
>>There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
>>distributor-using cars, too.
>>
>>But most people want to just get in and drive.
>
>
> You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
> what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
> repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
> the dollar.

And yet, I bet you spent more on your system than I have on mine... which
you assert is junk purely because I have no use for Linux.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:nrm4kjdhghj8ikr6intf9f042fdkgsjdkg@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
>>>
>>> Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
>>> the middleman.
>>
>>But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
>>
>>And you may not need it.
>>
>>But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>for you... ...you're just delusional.
>
>
> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.

So why use Mint when Window's already fills the need?

> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.

And yet, you've complained about the age of my computer and software..
apparently you think I should fill up the landfill and replace my
hardware/software with something you CLAIM would be better for the uses I
need and use it for... all without having a clue what those are.

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vhtmqc$1ssg2$4@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-23 14:49, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
>>>>
>>>> Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
>>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
>>>> the middleman.
>>>
>>> But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
>>>
>>> And you may not need it.
>>>
>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>
>>
>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>
>
> Yeah...
>
> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a sucker
> and a loser...
>
> ...right?

Well technically, he's a self admitted sucker.. and as for loser... he's
made that plain.

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
>that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
>
>To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
>his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
>looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual choke?"

I can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and
higher-end OEMs' offerings. Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to
save money that way. I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t9o4kjtua654db987d5m9pi32ele0vi4bb@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
>>>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
>>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
>>>>> the middleman.
>>>>
>>>> But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
>>>>
>>>> And you may not need it.
>>>>
>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>
>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>
>>Yeah...
>>
>>Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>sucker and a loser...
>>
>>...right?
>
>
> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
> reality, I realize. M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
> became Win11.

No shit sherlock. This has been a standard for MS for a LONG time. Almost
from the very start even.

Yet it took you until Win10 to figure that out?

Man, I knew you were slow.. but never realized you were that slow.

> That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
> Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
> desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material.

Or we just stick with an older version of Windows which we've already paid
for, have software for and which still suits our needs..

But you tell tell us we should throw it all out because we really need to
switch to something else.

Yea.. have you LISTENED to your own bullshit?

On 11/24/24 8:36 PM, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
>>>>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
>>>>>> OHHHHH!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
>>>>>
>>>>> It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
>>>>> more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
>>>>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
>>>>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
>>>>> farce.
>>>>
>>>> And now I understand your religion.
>>>>
>>>> Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
>>
>> Which you've admitted is good hardware.
>
> Relatively, yes.
>
>
>>>> And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
>>>
>>> Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
>> No... ...not an eternity.
>>
>> But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
>
> You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
> afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.

Except that 7 years isn't actually end of life, because a PC can still
continue to be used for years afterwords, just not on the latest OS
version with the latest new features being added.

Case in point, look at the marketshare that's still using Windows 10
instead of Win11:

"At the end of September 2024, Windows 10 had a 62.79 percent market
share and Windows 11 accounted for 33.37 percent."

<https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/01/windows_11_market_share/>

Similarly, here's a very bad/dated graph on MacOS uptake trends:

<https://www.statista.com/statistics/944559/worldwide-macos-version-market-share/>

Ignore the stuff after Nov 2020, because that's when macOS Big Sur
shipped & this page stopped being correctly maintained.

At that snapshot in time, we see that 66% of Apple's users were on
Catalina (the then-latest release), and 34% were on older versions. And
of these running these older versions, 5 percentage points of the 34%,
or roughly 1 in 6, were running OSs that was then already 5+ years old
instead of newer versions.

-hh

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vhtpdj$1ssg2$8@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-23 15:16, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
>>>>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix
>>>>>> side
>>>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
>>>>>> the middleman.
>>>>>
>>>>> But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you may not need it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>>
>>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>>
>>> Yeah...
>>>
>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>
>>> ...right?
>>
>>
>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>> reality, I realize.
>
> Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
>
> You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider a
> loser.

Even Joel by his OWN metrics that demands people should dump the stuff they
have now in favor of what HE asserts is better.
I mean if he had ANY consistency.. why would he be demanding I throw out the
computer, hardware and software I already have in favor of buying something
'new'.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3nr4kjpsavqna74ep3rqu615i22522roc8@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah...
>>>>
>>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>>
>>>> ...right?
>>>
>>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>>> reality, I realize.
>>
>>Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
>>
>>You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
>>a loser.
>
>
> In a perfect world, not in the real one.

You're still a loser in either one.

On 11/25/24 7:44 AM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
>>>>> Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
>>>>> the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
>>>>
>>>> And yet when you bought this PC in 2022 [it was 2021], you didn't anticipate the
>>>> likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died?
>>>
>>> What difference would that have made?
>>
>> Because buying a subsystem just once instead of buying it twice may
>> mean that you pay less overall: "Lifecyle cost management 101."
>
>
> The CPU's video is built into the CPU. It's still there right now, if
> I plug a DP cable into the motherboard's video port, but instead I use
> the discrete card, now.

But since as you've said that its GPU wasn't up to the task, maybe you
should have saved $30 upfront and bought the Core i5-10400F instead of
the Core i5-10400, so as to not pay for that inadequate integrated GPU?
Doing so would have lowered your lifecycle costs.

>>>> Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
>>>
>>> The video card was around $100.
>>
>> Which gets added to the 2021 base system's price, bringing your total
>> invested lifecycle cost to date to be ... how much?
>
> No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
> Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.

Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?

>>> 32 GB is about right, for my usage.
>>
>> Not today it isn't: it is still being underutilized at ~3 years system
>> age, which undermines your claimed argument of the value of moduarlity
>> for lower lifecycle costs. Looks like you were 5+ years too early in
>> spending money for RAM that you won't really need until after 2027.
>
> As my computer stays booted up, RAM use approaches the full quantity,
> including cache. I watch this in System Monitor.

Still doesn't matter: if you're never hitting swap, its an excess
capability that 3 years after purchase you *still* didn't need to invest
in yet. As such, you've violated the very reason for why you claimed
that a user-upgradable modular system is worth more to you.

-hh

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vhtr8l$1sst2$4@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-23 16:11, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it
>>>>>>> works
>>>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah...
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...right?
>>>>
>>>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>>>> reality, I realize.
>>>
>>> Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
>>>
>>> You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
>>> a loser.
>>
>>
>> In a perfect world, not in the real one.
>
> I see.
>
> In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
>
> Is that your position?

I think you got it in one.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0fv4kj1tbe50m3ut5jlbbg62127vc267v1@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>>>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...right?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>>>>> reality, I realize.
>>>>
>>>> Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
>>>>
>>>> You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
>>>> a loser.
>>>
>>> In a perfect world, not in the real one.
>>
>>I see.
>>
>>In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
>>
>>Is that your position?
>
>
> Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom.

You are a hater, and you hate anyone that doesn't do what you've done.

As far as knowledge you have little and of wisdom you have even less.

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vhtvl9$1sst2$7@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-23 17:16, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>>>>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...right?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>>>>>> reality, I realize.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it
>>>>> obvious.
>>>>>
>>>>> You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be"
>>>>> consider
>>>>> a loser.
>>>>
>>>> In a perfect world, not in the real one.
>>>
>>> I see.
>>>
>>> In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
>>>
>>> Is that your position?
>>
>>
>> Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
>> the mortal being of the divine.
>
> Yeah...
>
> ...you're just an ass.
>
>>
>>
>>>>>> M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
>>>>>> became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
>>>>>> Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
>>>>>> desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
>>>>>> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
>>>>>> would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
>>>>>> but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
>>>>> There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
>>>>> becoming too slow for modern software.
>>>>
>>>> Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and
>>>> still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
>>>> aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
>>>> support anyway.
>>> That may be an argument for problems in Windows.
>>>
>>> It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.
>>
>>
>> Oh, if you want to run unsupported Windows versions, sure, you can do
>> that, but then where are you? It's ludicrous, how Winblows 10 still
>> pretends you can run it on a single-core, 2 GB RAM, spinning hard
>> drive, laughable.
>
> I knew you wouldn't get it.

I could have told you that before you started.
But hey, if I need bulk storage I can pick up a multi Terabyte hard drive
for a fraction of the cost of a new SSD or NVMe
Plus since I already have several such drives the cost is even lower and I
don't have to dump them in the landfill as Josh would suggest be done with
them.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6e25kjlp81tir7a8gbl8nf264c22eoq6jo@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".
>>>>
>>>> Is that your position?
>>>
>>> Haters gonna hate but they can't refute my knowledge and wisdom. I am
>>> the mortal being of the divine.
>>
>>Yeah...
>>
>>...you're just an ass.
>
>
> I'm edgy, yeah. But I can back up what I'm saying.

When do you plan to start?

> M$ and Apple are
> about money. Linux is about freedom.

Freedom?

I thought freedom was about making your OWN choices.. yet here you are
demanding that everyone make the same choice you did...
...isn't that the opposite of freedom?

I mean if you were truly about freedom.. you wouldn't care what OS they
chose to use or which version.

Yet instead you're there demanding everyone switch as you have and to throw
out their current software/hardware to match what you assert is better for
us.

No choice.. more waste... fuller landfills.. the exact OPPOSITE of what you
claim you stand for.