On 2024-11-24 16:26, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-11-24 16:23, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
>>> OHHHHH!
>>>
>>> It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
>>
>>
>> It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
>> more money.  The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
>> ridiculous.  People using these ancient computers with it.  It's a
>> farce.
>>
>
> And now I understand your religion.
>
> Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
>
> And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.

My bad... ...it's as much as SEVEN years old.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>Have you actually upgraded your current system?

Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
>>> OHHHHH!
>>>
>>> It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
>>
>> It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
>> more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
>> farce.
>
>And now I understand your religion.
>
>Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.

Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.

>And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.

Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
>>>
>>> As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
>>
>> Not when such abuse me, right.
>How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?
>
>Do you even hear yourself?

Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 16:50, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>
>
> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?

You've described your use of the computer as:

'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'

So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?

Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?

Is Linux really that bad?

On 2024-11-24 16:52, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
>>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
>>>> OHHHHH!
>>>>
>>>> It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
>>>
>>> It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
>>> more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
>>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
>>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
>>> farce.
>>
>> And now I understand your religion.
>>
>> Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
>
>
> Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.

Which you've admitted is good hardware.

>
>
>> And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
>
>
> Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
No... ...not an eternity.

But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.

On 2024-11-24 16:54, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
>>>>
>>>> As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
>>>
>>> Not when such abuse me, right.
>> How does someone selling a product "abuse" you?
>>
>> Do you even hear yourself?
>
>
> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
I sound like".

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>>
>> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
>And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
>
>You've described your use of the computer as:
>
>'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
>
>So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?

I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
old 1080p monitor.

>Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>
>Is Linux really that bad?

I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>>> It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
>>>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
>>>>> OHHHHH!
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
>>>>
>>>> It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
>>>> more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
>>>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
>>>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
>>>> farce.
>>>
>>> And now I understand your religion.
>>>
>>> Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
>>
>> Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
>
>Which you've admitted is good hardware.

Relatively, yes.

>>> And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
>>
>> Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
>No... ...not an eternity.
>
>But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.

You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
>I sound like".

I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
aging hardware.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 17:34, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>>>
>>> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
>>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
>> And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
>>
>> You've described your use of the computer as:
>>
>> 'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
>>
>> So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
>
>
> I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
> got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
> old 1080p monitor.

So your judgment about computer systems seems flawed from the word go,
as you describe the monitor in a way that suggests that you had it when
you bought the system.

Didn't do your research very well, huh?

>
>
>> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>
>> Is Linux really that bad?
>
>
> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
>

I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....

....and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
PowerPoint)...

....and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...

....and that's with just 16GB of RAM.

On 2024-11-24 17:36, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> It is reasonable to say that apps like Photoshop and Microsoft Office
>>>>>>> are superior, but if it requires running a commercial OS, screw it.
>>>>>> OHHHHH!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the fact that the OS is COMMERCIAL that's important, is it?
>>>>>
>>>>> It wouldn't be, if M$ and Apple weren't just about getting more and
>>>>> more money. The way Microsoft pretends that Windows 10 today is still
>>>>> the same thing, as it was when it was first released in 2015, is just
>>>>> ridiculous. People using these ancient computers with it. It's a
>>>>> farce.
>>>>
>>>> And now I understand your religion.
>>>>
>>>> Apple doesn't charge a cent for its OS, doofus.
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter, you have to have their hardware to use it.
>>
>> Which you've admitted is good hardware.
>
>
> Relatively, yes.
>
>
>>>> And the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
>>>
>>> Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
>> No... ...not an eternity.
>>
>> But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
>
>
> You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
> afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
>

Are you kidding? Amortize over just 4 years, my new MacBook Air M3 will
cost me $50/month, all in (including 12% sales tax).

And that was hardly the least expensive choice that was available.

You don't have to be "upper-middle class" to afford $50 a month for an
essential tool of modern life.

On 2024-11-24 17:38, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>> I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
>> I sound like".
>
>
> I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
> It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
> just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
> aging hardware.
>

Or they could just get a Mac.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>>>>
>>>> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
>>>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
>>> And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
>>>
>>> You've described your use of the computer as:
>>>
>>> 'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
>>>
>>> So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
>>
>> I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
>> got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
>> old 1080p monitor.
>
>So your judgment about computer systems seems flawed from the word go,
>as you describe the monitor in a way that suggests that you had it when
>you bought the system.
>
>Didn't do your research very well, huh?

What? When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.

>>> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>>
>>> Is Linux really that bad?
>>
>> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
>> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
>> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
>> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
>
>I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
>well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
>
>
>...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
>PowerPoint)...
>
>...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
>graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
>Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
>
>...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.

I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 18:03, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>>>>>
>>>>> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
>>>>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
>>>> And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
>>>>
>>>> You've described your use of the computer as:
>>>>
>>>> 'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
>>>>
>>>> So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
>>>
>>> I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
>>> got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
>>> old 1080p monitor.
>>
>> So your judgment about computer systems seems flawed from the word go,
>> as you describe the monitor in a way that suggests that you had it when
>> you bought the system.
>>
>> Didn't do your research very well, huh?
>
>
> What? When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
> Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
> the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
>
>
>>>> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>>>
>>>> Is Linux really that bad?
>>>
>>> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
>>> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
>>> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
>>> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
>>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
>>
>> I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
>> well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
>>
>>
>> ...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
>> PowerPoint)...
>>
>> ...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
>> graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
>> Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
>>
>> ...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
>
>
> I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
> that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.

So the same as my system under at least as great a load with half the RAM

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>> the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
>>>>
>>>> Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
>>> No... ...not an eternity.
>>>
>>> But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
>>
>> You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
>> afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
>
>Are you kidding? Amortize over just 4 years, my new MacBook Air M3 will
>cost me $50/month, all in (including 12% sales tax).
>
>And that was hardly the least expensive choice that was available.
>
>You don't have to be "upper-middle class" to afford $50 a month for an
>essential tool of modern life.

Laptops are not really comparable to what I'd be into, Apple's Mac
mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self-
assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
I used the money so intelligently.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 18:21, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> the current OS will run on machines that are as much as 6 years old.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh wow, six years, that's an eternity ...
>>>> No... ...not an eternity.
>>>>
>>>> But likely longer than most people want to keep one computer.
>>>
>>> You're making my case for me, not everyone is upper-middle class, to
>>> afford these pricey Apple systems every few years.
>>
>> Are you kidding? Amortize over just 4 years, my new MacBook Air M3 will
>> cost me $50/month, all in (including 12% sales tax).
>>
>> And that was hardly the least expensive choice that was available.
>>
>> You don't have to be "upper-middle class" to afford $50 a month for an
>> essential tool of modern life.
>
>
> Laptops are not really comparable to what I'd be into, Apple's Mac
> mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self-
> assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
> computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
> or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
> unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
> I used the money so intelligently.
>

And an Apple Mac Mini with 32GB and 1TB will cost you $1,400USD (plus
applicable taxes), and split that across 4 years and you're looking at
$30/month.

So break down the cost of your machine.

You've already stated some of the components, so show us all how well
you did!

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>>> I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
>>> I sound like".
>>
>> I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
>> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
>> It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
>> just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
>> aging hardware.
>
>Or they could just get a Mac.

Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
without the outrageous cost of Apple.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 18:31, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>>>> I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
>>>> I sound like".
>>>
>>> I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
>>> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
>>> It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
>>> just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
>>> aging hardware.
>>
>> Or they could just get a Mac.
>
>
> Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
> because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
> bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
> compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
> as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
> without the outrageous cost of Apple.
>

Except, for most people, there are large costs to Linux.

Most people can't assemble a computer from parts; most don't want to.

Most people want the range of software that comes with using a Mac or a
Windows machine.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Linux really that bad?
>>>>
>>>> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
>>>> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
>>>> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
>>>> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
>>>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
>>>
>>> I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
>>> well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
>>>
>>>
>>> ...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
>>> PowerPoint)...
>>>
>>> ...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
>>> graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
>>> Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
>>>
>>> ...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
>>
>> I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
>> that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
>
>So the same as my system under at least as great a load with half the RAM

I'm using about half of my RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 18:37, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is Linux really that bad?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
>>>>> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
>>>>> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
>>>>> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
>>>>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
>>>>
>>>> I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
>>>> well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
>>>> PowerPoint)...
>>>>
>>>> ...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
>>>> graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
>>>> Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
>>>>
>>>> ...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
>>>
>>> I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
>>> that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
>>
>> So the same as my system under at least as great a load with half the RAM
>
>
> I'm using about half of my RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
> so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
>

You're 133t, dude!

You are so 133t!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>> Apple's Mac
>> mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self-
>> assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
>> computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
>> or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
>> unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
>> I used the money so intelligently.
>
>And an Apple Mac Mini with 32GB and 1TB will cost you $1,400USD (plus
>applicable taxes), and split that across 4 years and you're looking at
>$30/month.
>
>So break down the cost of your machine.
>
>You've already stated some of the components, so show us all how well
>you did!

Definitely less money than this Mac mini would cost. Why doesn't it
have WiFi, BTW? Just so weird, how Apple thinks everyone fits some
middle-class model of usage, wherein there's a path to the router with
an ethernet cable. My WiFi is integrated in the motherboard. And I
could easily add a PCI-e WiFi card, if I needed an upgrade of it.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 18:48, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>> Apple's Mac
>>> mini and Studio models are inferior for the cost, compared to self-
>>> assembling a desktop. And I know, not everyone wants to build
>>> computers, I get it, but FFS you sacrifice so much of either quality
>>> or money, if you don't do this. The value of my machine is
>>> unbelievable. I'm a relatively poor person with a great box, because
>>> I used the money so intelligently.
>>
>> And an Apple Mac Mini with 32GB and 1TB will cost you $1,400USD (plus
>> applicable taxes), and split that across 4 years and you're looking at
>> $30/month.
>>
>> So break down the cost of your machine.
>>
>> You've already stated some of the components, so show us all how well
>> you did!
>
>
> Definitely less money than this Mac mini would cost. Why doesn't it
> have WiFi, BTW? Just so weird, how Apple thinks everyone fits some
> middle-class model of usage, wherein there's a path to the router with
> an ethernet cable. My WiFi is integrated in the motherboard. And I
> could easily add a PCI-e WiFi card, if I needed an upgrade of it.
>

So show it all to us, 1337 haxor!

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>>>>> I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
>>>>> I sound like".
>>>>
>>>> I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
>>>> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
>>>> It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
>>>> just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
>>>> aging hardware.
>>>
>>> Or they could just get a Mac.
>>
>> Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
>> because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
>> bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
>> compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
>> as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
>> without the outrageous cost of Apple.
>
>Except, for most people, there are large costs to Linux.
>
>Most people can't assemble a computer from parts; most don't want to.
>
>Most people want the range of software that comes with using a Mac or a
>Windows machine.

I agree that Winblows has a library of software available, that is
enticing to many people. Even excluding gaming, that is true, and I
acknowledge it. But it's funny how much one must sacrifice money or
performance, for the privilege. With Linux, I just don't have that
problem. Apple is better in terms of how it evolves over time, but
has an up-front cost that is prohibitive. Linux remains the only
viable solution.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-24 18:55, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>>>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>>>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>>>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>>>>>> I guess the answer is, "No, I really don't realize how much of a fanatic
>>>>>> I sound like".
>>>>>
>>>>> I am a fanatic, definitely. Fanatically, I can't believe what M$ did
>>>>> to Windows 10 victims. And what they're already doing with Win11.
>>>>> It's a joke. They're making Linux the obvious solution, but people
>>>>> just won't see that, and put up with the hassle of using Winblows on
>>>>> aging hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Or they could just get a Mac.
>>>
>>> Probably, Apple's support would be better than M$'s. I grant that,
>>> because they aren't so ridiculous with never ending growth of code
>>> bloat, and that's a point in their favor, but it's still overpriced,
>>> compared to what one can get with parts and Linux. I really see Linux
>>> as the only platform to keep a machine going for its useful life,
>>> without the outrageous cost of Apple.
>>
>> Except, for most people, there are large costs to Linux.
>>
>> Most people can't assemble a computer from parts; most don't want to.
>>
>> Most people want the range of software that comes with using a Mac or a
>> Windows machine.
>
>
> I agree that Winblows has a library of software available, that is
> enticing to many people. Even excluding gaming, that is true, and I
> acknowledge it. But it's funny how much one must sacrifice money or
> performance, for the privilege. With Linux, I just don't have that
> problem. Apple is better in terms of how it evolves over time, but
> has an up-front cost that is prohibitive. Linux remains the only
> viable solution.
>

First of all, grow up.

No one here is under any illusion about how you feel about Windows, so
put on your big boy pants and just call it "Windows".

And you've yet to show what the difference in cost is between your Linux
system and an equivalent Mac.

Funny that, huh?