Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>>> If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
>>>>>> can call Apple victims such.
>>>>>
>>>>> How are those two related? "joel"?
>>>>
>>>> Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
>>>
>>> OK. So?
>>>
>>> Why are YOU using it?
>>
>> Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
>> the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
>> shit.
>
>Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
>
>Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
>
>...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
>Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?

I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
to get what I have.

>>>>>> Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
>>>>>> is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>> Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
>>>>
>>>> The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.
>>> You paid a price in other ways...
>>>
>>> ...and you know it.
>>>
>>> What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
>>>
>>> Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
>>
>> The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
>> are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
>> can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
>> would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
>> difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
>> more bang for buck.
>
>Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
>Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
>
>Try again.

It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>> Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
>>>>
>>>> Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
>>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
>>>> the middleman.
>>>
>>> But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
>>>
>>> And you may not need it.
>>>
>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>
>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>
>Yeah...
>
>Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>sucker and a loser...
>
>...right?

It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
reality, I realize. M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>On 2024-11-23 14:51, Joel wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>> Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>> [Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
>>>>> Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
>>>>>> where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
>>>>> just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
>>>>> even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
>>>>> kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
>>>>
>>>> And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
>>>> there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
>>>>
>>>> ROFLMAO
>>>
>>> There are far more shitty Windows apps.
>>>
>>> Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
>>> code runs on it as well.
>>
>> You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
>> Trump and guns. Nuff said.
>
>Ad hominem.
>
>That was always going to be next for you...
>
>...right?

The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Isaac Montara <IsaacMontara@nospam.com> wrote:

>Windows 10 released June 2015 so it is supported for over ten years.
>Microsoft full hotfix support currently is for two concurrent releases.

It should be noted that Windows 10 in 2015 was nothing, *NOTHING* like
it is now, it was a minor upgrade to Win8.1, initially, but now is
practically as bloated as Win11. M$ doesn't care about you.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 13:32:26 -0500 :

>>And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
>>industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
>
> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
> that it's Unix.

I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.

Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).

Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?

Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).

Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.

Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.

Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.

Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.

Those are just facts.

What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

On 2024-11-23 15:11, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
>>>>>>> can call Apple victims such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How are those two related? "joel"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
>>>>
>>>> OK. So?
>>>>
>>>> Why are YOU using it?
>>>
>>> Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
>>> the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
>>> shit.
>>
>> Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
>>
>> Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
>>
>> ...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
>
>
> I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
> but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
> to get what I have.

You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
"piece of shit".

What a shocker.

>
>
>>>>>>> Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
>>>>>>> is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
>>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>> Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.
>>>> You paid a price in other ways...
>>>>
>>>> ...and you know it.
>>>>
>>>> What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
>>>>
>>>> Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
>>>
>>> The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
>>> are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
>>> can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
>>> would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
>>> difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
>>> more bang for buck.
>>
>> Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
>> Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
>>
>> Try again.
>
>
> It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
> overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
> value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
So you're a liar when you call it "crap".

Got it.

Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...

....or is that just more of your bullshit?

On 2024-11-23 15:16, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Apple products require LESS tech support than the other choices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably true, they're so simple that an insect could operate them,
>>>>> almost, there's nothing advanced until one ventures into the Unix side
>>>>> of the OS. But what do I need of that, when Linux exists? Take out
>>>>> the middleman.
>>>>
>>>> But you have the Unix side as well as the easy side.
>>>>
>>>> And you may not need it.
>>>>
>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>
>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>
>> Yeah...
>>
>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>> sucker and a loser...
>>
>> ...right?
>
>
> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
> reality, I realize.

Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.

You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
a loser.

> M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
> became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
> Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
> desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
> would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
> but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
becoming too slow for modern software.

On 2024-11-23 15:17, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-23 14:51, Joel wrote:
>>> Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>> Klaus Schadenfreude wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
>>>>> [Default] Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> typed:
>>>>>> Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> my desktop is from 2009 and it currently has Windows 10 on it,
>>>>>>> where I've had full hotfix support since then for no additional cost.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh sure, a 2009 model desktop will run Win10 in its current iterations
>>>>>> just peachy, give me a break. You need an NVMe drive, realistically,
>>>>>> even a SATA SSD on a machine that old is gonna suck balls. You're
>>>>>> kidding yourself, to believe M$ gives a shit about you. Linux FTW.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then you can take advantage of the 100 shitty Linux apps out
>>>>> there, or run crippled versions of Windows apps using Wine!
>>>>>
>>>>> ROFLMAO
>>>>
>>>> There are far more shitty Windows apps.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I do what I do, on Linux, no Wine. I do boot to Windows to make sure my
>>>> code runs on it as well.
>>>
>>> You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
>>> Trump and guns. Nuff said.
>>
>> Ad hominem.
>>
>> That was always going to be next for you...
>>
>> ...right?
>
>
> The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
>

Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
he didn't actually do) cannot be that.

Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:

>>>And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
>>>industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
>>
>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>> that it's Unix.
>
>I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
>about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
>
>Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
>for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
>I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
>Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
>
>Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
>software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
>for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
>
>Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
>Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
>
>Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
>support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
>more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
>support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
>anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
>
>Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
>complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
>
>Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
>It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
>
>Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
>And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
>
>Those are just facts.
>
>What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
>that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
>Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.

You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
why I've been on Linux for a year.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 13:58:31 -0500 :

>> Anyway, the Apple owners have no clue their devices are completely
>> brain dead - they're just dumb terminals - logging into the Cupertino
>> server mainframes just to do the most basic of tasks like messaging.
>
> Odd how much utility these devices still have without WiFi or cellular!

Hi -hh,

You do know I *test* what iOS can do *without* logging into Apple's
mainframe servers, right? I've been testing this for over two years.
*Apple finally let me log into my own iPad to use it (after years of holding my AppleID hostage)*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=8843&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#8843>

You must know that as we discussed many times that, on two different iOS
devices (I'm currently testing the third but it's brand new) by creating an
Apple ID and then after logging into it just once, I never logged back into
the Apple mainframe servers even though Apple bugs me every day ten times a
day to log into their Mainframe servers (even though I never logged out!).
*Re: What percentage of iOS just stops working the instant you don't sign into the Apple mothership tracking servers?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=9988&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#9988>

You must know also that Apple iOS devices are brain dead without that login
(since all iOS devices are designed specifically to be dumb terminals).
*Setting up an iPad without an AppleID*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=16756&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#16756>

Despite the fact Apple trolls know nothing about Linux, Windows, or
Android, most of the Apple trolls know absolutely nothing about Apple.

The iOS device is brain dead like you can't believe if you do not log into
the walled garden every single moment of every single day of your life.

No other operating system *requires* you to log into the OS vendor's
mainframe servers just to get the basic application capability to work.

Just Apple.

On 11/23/2024 12:58 PM, -hh wrote:

>> And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
>> industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
>
> Different product use cases on uptime requirements. Plus from an IT
> Security perspective, isn't there also a trade-off here too?

Why do iPhones always have more 0-day holes than Android if it's so secure?
https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog

On 2024-11-23 15:49, Joel wrote:
> Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>>> And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
>>>> industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
>>>
>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>> that it's Unix.
>>
>> I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
>> about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
>>
>> Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
>> for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
>> I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
>> Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
>>
>> Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
>> software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
>> for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
>>
>> Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
>> Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
>>
>> Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
>> support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
>> more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
>> support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
>> anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
>>
>> Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
>> complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
>>
>> Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
>> It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
>>
>> Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
>> And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
>>
>> Those are just facts.
>>
>> What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
>> that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
>> Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
>
>
> You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
> ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
> painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
> are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
> general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
> system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
> upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
> why I've been on Linux for a year.
>

My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.

<https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>

It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.

It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.

It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
battery life, worked very well for me over the years.

And to address one point you made specifically:

Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
every few years"?

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
>>>> the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
>>>> shit.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
>>>
>>> Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
>>>
>>> ...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
>>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
>>
>> I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
>> but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
>> to get what I have.
>
>You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
>"piece of shit".
>
>What a shocker.

Relative to its price.

>>> Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
>>> Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
>>>
>>> Try again.
>>
>> It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
>> overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
>> value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
>So you're a liar when you call it "crap".
>
>Got it.
>
>Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
>
>...or is that just more of your bullshit?

The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
cares when Linux is a thing?

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-11-23 16:08, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
>>>>> the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
>>>>> shit.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
>>>>
>>>> Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
>>>>
>>>> ...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
>>>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
>>>
>>> I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
>>> but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
>>> to get what I have.
>>
>> You're still not addressing your claim that the Mac in question is a
>> "piece of shit".
>>
>> What a shocker.
>
>
> Relative to its price.

Sorry... ...not what you originally claimed.

>
>
>>>> Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
>>>> Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
>>>>
>>>> Try again.
>>>
>>> It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
>>> overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
>>> value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.
>> So you're a liar when you call it "crap".
>>
>> Got it.
>>
>> Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
>>
>> ...or is that just more of your bullshit?
>
>
> The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
> interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
> cares when Linux is a thing?
That's not an answer to why you claimed:

'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'

So I'll ask again.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>>
>>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>>
>>> Yeah...
>>>
>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>
>>> ...right?
>>
>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>> reality, I realize.
>
>Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
>
>You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
>a loser.

In a perfect world, not in the real one.

>> M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
>> became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
>> Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
>> desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
>> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
>> would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
>> but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
>There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
>becoming too slow for modern software.

Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and
still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
support anyway.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 11/23/24 6:11 PM, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> If Trump can call veterans losers and suckers, I sure as fucking hell
>>>>>>> can call Apple victims such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How are those two related? "joel"?
>>>>>
>>>>> Related, no, metaphorically kind of the same use of language.
>>>>
>>>> OK. So?
>>>> Why are YOU using it?
>>>
>>> Because I'm dumbfounded by the prices of Apple's hardware. $2000 for
>>> the Mac Studio with 32 GB RAM and 512 GB storage. What a piece of
>>> shit.
>>
>> Sorry, but things aren't "shit" because of their price.
>>
>> Have you looked at the benchmarks for that machine...
>>
>> ...or better yet (since the Studio is quite a bit out-of-date), the Mac
>> Mini with an M4Pro, 48GB of RAM and 1TB drive for the same price?
>
>
> I have 32 GB RAM and a 1 TB NVMe drive, admittedly my CPU is older,
> but one doesn't always need more horsepower, I didn't break the bank
> to get what I have.

Except that suitability depends on what one's use case is, and it
doesn't matter if we're talking about PCs or cars, or whatever.

So yeah, if you're just drooling on USENET, then a 2017 vintage Mac
laptop would do you perfectly fine ... I'll sell you one for $199.

OTOH, if your work products merit completing them in a timely fashion,
then computers are just like race cars: "Speed cost money. How fast can
you afford to go?"

>>>>>>> Winblows 11 isn't it. Winblows 10
>>>>>>> is a dead end. Macs are overpriced geekware. Linux rules the
>>>>>>> desktop.
>>>>>> Why do you fail to address a single question I actually asked?
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer is simple, I paid less to get high-end gear.

Please remind me: just what's the specs of this claimed "high-end" gear?

>>>> You paid a price in other ways...
>>>>
>>>> ...and you know it.
>>>>
>>>> What makes Apple's hardware "crap"?
>>>>
>>>> Cost is NOT an answer to that question.
>>>
>>> The price I paid in other ways is called using my brain. Apple drones
>>> are sheep. Cost is the answer to the question because not everyone
>>> can afford to purchase these elite devices from Apple, not everyone
>>> would want to either given the goofiness of the OS. Linux is
>>> difficult, I admit, unless one uses Mint casually, but you get so much
>>> more bang for buck.
>>
>> Again, you fail to actually answer the question about in what way
>> Apple's hardware is supposedly "crap".
>>
>> Try again.

Seems that Joel's also not factored in his personal costs either, such
as the value of not having to worry about stuff.

> It's not crap in a literal sense, it's fine enough equipment, but
> overpriced. One is paying for the Apple motif, more than the real
> value of the hardware and software. It's a racket.

Now not saying that you're a cheapskate <g>, but since you've raised
this as a 'cost' based claim, even if you really mean 'value', what's
your objective metrics which support this?

What level of 'high-end' hardware at what initial deployment cost?

And the other factor is ... for how long will it stay in service for?

And since the future is usually very rosy, what's your track record on
your prior hardware lifespans, and at what cost per unit time?

For example, a $1500 PC that's still worth $100 when its 7 years old
works out to $200/year: how does your historical baseline compare to
that which you're being clearly critical of?

-hh

On 2024-11-23 16:11, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> But if you pretend that most people should use Linux because it works
>>>>>> for you... ...you're just delusional.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mint is easy enough. They basically reproduce Microsoft's interface.
>>>>> If people are too stupid to even use that, well, enjoy your landfills
>>>>> full of Dell laptops, dumbasses.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah...
>>>>
>>>> Everyone who doesn't see the world EXACTLY the way you see it is a
>>>> sucker and a loser...
>>>>
>>>> ...right?
>>>
>>> It's not quite like that, no, it should be perhaps, but reality is
>>> reality, I realize.
>>
>> Which is basically you saying "yes" but not wanting to make it obvious.
>>
>> You literally just said that everyone in the world "should be" consider
>> a loser.
>
>
> In a perfect world, not in the real one.

I see.

In your "perfect world" you are the final arbiter of who is a "loser".

Is that your position?

>
>
>>> M$ turned Windows 10 into a beta test of what
>>> became Win11. That means supported versions basically *are* Win11
>>> Light. Needing modern storage, realistically. Idiots with old
>>> desktops and laptops, refusing to think about switching to Linux, are
>>> creating landfill and/or third-world flea market material. All they
>>> would have to do is figure out how to install Mint. It's so simple,
>>> but they beLIEve they need M$ or Apple. Just pathetic.
>> There is nothing magic about Linux that prevents old machines from
>> becoming too slow for modern software.
>
>
> Linux gives life to old computers. My computer is relatively new, and
> still benefits from the advantages of Linux, but it's *essential* on
> aging hardware, that chokes on Winblows 10, which is almost out of
> support anyway.
That may be an argument for problems in Windows.

It's not an argument that only Linux can work well on old hardware.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>>> You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
>>>> Trump and guns. Nuff said.
>>>
>>> Ad hominem.
>>>
>>> That was always going to be next for you...
>>>
>>> ...right?
>>
>> The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
>
>Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
>he didn't actually do) cannot be that.

Ah, but there's an implied dis of people who use Linux, in the words
ostensibly about software. We're freaks, weirdoes, cheapskates,
losers, etc. And yet my computer easily meets the Winblows 11
requirements, I built it the same year it was released. Linux is just
better.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel wrote on Sat, 23 Nov 2024 18:49:35 -0500 :

>>What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
>>that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
>>Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
>
> You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
> ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
> painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
> are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
> general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
> system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
> upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
> why I've been on Linux for a year.

Hi Joel,
I'm curious why you say that given my 2009 PC works great on Windows 10.
but I defer to your greater knowledge level so I'd like to ask for advice.

What commands do you want me to run to display my system for you now?
And when you see my "ancient" system from 2009, what's wrong with it?
AMD Phenom II X4 810 Processor 2.6GHz 16GB RAM

My "storage" has been replaced long ago but it's a normal disc drive.
My graphics card has also been replaced. And a memory stick went bad.
Other than that, the system is original. It works fine for me in Win10.

Why would you say my system does not run fine when I think it does.
Maybe we're looking at different metrics?

I'm NOT saying it's a powerhouse - but it runs Windows 10 just fine.
Doesn't it?

What's wrong with it in your opinion that would make Win10 NOT run fine?

I just ran Win+I and screenshotted my "system" to post it below for you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/t4P7fZZg/system01.jpg>

Why do you feel that system is "painfully slow" when I don't feel that?
What other command do you want me to run to screenshot my system hardware?

I'm curious since you know more than I do on hardware so I wish to learn.
Here's the Win+R > msinfo32 results which I screenshot for you also.
<https://i.postimg.cc/63gpYnVz/system02.jpg>

Would you kindly take a look and let me know why you think it won't run
Windows 10 "just fine" (where I know it's no longer a powerhouse PC)?

Thanks! I love to learn from others who know more than I do.

On 2024-11-23 16:17, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> You have to forgive old Klaus, he's too Caucasian and stupid. Loves
>>>>> Trump and guns. Nuff said.
>>>>
>>>> Ad hominem.
>>>>
>>>> That was always going to be next for you...
>>>>
>>>> ...right?
>>>
>>> The ad hominem began with Klaus dissing Linux software.
>>
>> Since "ad hominem" means "to the person" dissing Linux software (which
>> he didn't actually do) cannot be that.
>
>
> Ah, but there's an implied dis of people who use Linux, in the words
> ostensibly about software. We're freaks, weirdoes, cheapskates,
> losers, etc. And yet my computer easily meets the Winblows 11
> requirements, I built it the same year it was released. Linux is just
> better.
Ummmm...nope.

No one said or implied anything like that.

"too Caucasian and stupid"

....that's an ad hominem.

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>On 2024-11-23 15:49, Joel wrote:
>> Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
>>>>> industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
>>>>
>>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>>> that it's Unix.
>>>
>>> I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
>>> about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
>>>
>>> Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
>>> for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
>>> I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
>>> Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
>>>
>>> Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
>>> software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
>>> for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
>>>
>>> Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
>>> Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
>>>
>>> Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
>>> support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
>>> more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
>>> support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
>>> anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
>>>
>>> Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
>>> complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
>>>
>>> Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
>>> It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
>>>
>>> Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
>>> And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
>>>
>>> Those are just facts.
>>>
>>> What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
>>> that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
>>> Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
>>
>> You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
>> ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
>> painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
>> are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
>> general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
>> system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
>> upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
>> why I've been on Linux for a year.
>
>My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
>
><https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
>
>It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
>
>It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
>and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
>
>It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
>battery life, worked very well for me over the years.

If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.

>And to address one point you made specifically:
>
>Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
>every few years"?

Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

chrisv wrote:

>Only assholes ridicule others for their choices. Within reason,
>anyway. Some choices are worthy of ridicule, but buying Apple
>products sure isn't one of them.

Here is a buying decision that I would ridicule:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/viral-duct-taped-banana-sells-6-million-auction-rcna180564

Joel wrote:

>>My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
>>
>><https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
>>
>>It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
>>
>>It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
>>and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
>>
>>It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
>>battery life, worked very well for me over the years.
>
>If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.

For someone who, like Joel, has no job.

On 2024-11-23 16:31, Joel wrote:
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-11-23 15:49, Joel wrote:
>>> Andrew <andys@nospam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> And they have no idea that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the
>>>>>> industry, and while Linux hotfix support is also good, Microsoft rocks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>>>> that it's Unix.
>>>>
>>>> I think they're all the "enemy" to some degree, depending on what you care
>>>> about, specifically with respect to capability & full hotfix support.
>>>>
>>>> Since I came from the corporate world (Redhat for the engineers, MS Windows
>>>> for everyone who did anything & Apple for the marcomms ladies to draw with)
>>>> I started with Centos (closest free Linux to Redhat) but then moved to
>>>> Ubuntu (which was the Unity desktop abomination in those days long ago).
>>>>
>>>> Linux does everything you need to do, but it just doesn't have the immense
>>>> software choice that Microsoft enjoys - nor is any given release patched
>>>> for, oh, how long has Microsoft Windows been both free & fully supported?
>>>>
>>>> Let's see, my 2009 desktop started as Windows Vista, where I skipped
>>>> Windows 8 (as I recall) & upgraded for free to Windows 10 (as I recall).
>>>>
>>>> Since Windows 10 is fully supported for one more year, that's full hotfix
>>>> support for about 14 years for me, but Vista released in 2007 so that's
>>>> more than a 1-1/2 decades of full hotfix support (which is not the same as
>>>> support - which I know you know - but the Apple trolls never understand
>>>> anything outside of a slick (but brilliant) Apple marketing brochure.
>>>>
>>>> Linux is effectively supported longer than 1-1/2 decades, but you can't
>>>> complain about Microsoft's full hotfix support when it's that long.
>>>>
>>>> Samsung and Google recently published their full hotfix support length.
>>>> It's 7 years and up to 7 releases for both of them.
>>>>
>>>> Apple's full hotfix support is stated as only five years by Apple.
>>>> And Apple has never fully supported more than one release in its history.
>>>>
>>>> Those are just facts.
>>>>
>>>> What's interesting in terms of herd mentality psychology, is not so much
>>>> that Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry - but that the
>>>> Apple trolls (who don't actually know anything) think it has the best.
>>>
>>> You might get your "hotfixes" from M$, but not real support of your
>>> ancient computer, anything that came with Vista is going to have
>>> painfully slow storage, SATA SSDs are not the miracle that NVMe ones
>>> are, when they're connected to ancient motherboards, or even in
>>> general. M$ doesn't care about you, they want you to buy a whole new
>>> system every few years. My computer was ideal for the Windows 11
>>> upgrade, in 2021, but it would suck if I still had it today, which is
>>> why I've been on Linux for a year.
>>
>> My previous Mac was a 2015 13" MacBook Pro.
>>
>> <https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook_pro/specs/macbook-pro-core-i7-3.1-13-early-2015-retina-display-specs.html>
>>
>> It shipped with Mac OS X 10.10(.2) Yosemite; released in October 2014.
>>
>> It was supported up until macOS 12 Monterery; released in October 2021
>> and which continues to receive updates as recently as July 2024.
>>
>> It had 16GB of RAM and a 512GB SSD, and with the exception of reduced
>> battery life, worked very well for me over the years.
>
>
> If you bought that in 2014, it would have cost an incredible sum.

Take a guess.

I easily saved anything I paid over and above even a Linux laptop in
reduced time and effort in support.

>
>
>> And to address one point you made specifically:
>>
>> Why in the hell would Microsoft care if you bought a "whole new system
>> every few years"?
>
>
> Because that's what Winblows *is*, a marketing scheme for new
> computers. Linux is the OS that supports hardware comprehensively.

And how would such a scheme benefit Microsoft?
>

Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:

>>> Now, why do you claim their software is "crap"...
>>>
>>> ...or is that just more of your bullshit?
>>
>> The software is where it really gets weird, the goofy Apple-centric
>> interface, it's a fine Unix system under the hood to be sure, but who
>> cares when Linux is a thing?
>That's not an answer to why you claimed:
>
>'You're a sucker if you use Apple's crap hardware and software.'
>
>So I'll ask again.

OK, well, you're paying a premium price for junk software. Is that
clear enough?

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.