It's been about 2 years since I've backed up my e-books to optical disk.
Since then I have acquired a bit more and my e-library now sizes about
100 Gb.

Holey fucking moley! If all those volumes were paper they would weigh
a thousand fucking tons -- and that's no exaggeration.

So I have to burn four 25 Gb bdr (that's Blu-Ray) disks.

Here is the GNU/Linux command:

growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=2 -udf -iso-level 3 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -r -graft-points /<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/ ...

This will produce a hybrid UDF/ISO-9660 filesystem because ISO-9660
by itself does not support files larger than 4.38 Gb.

It will also allow direct copying of files without having to create
an intermediate UDF/ISO-9660 file mounted as loop back.

The "-J" option is a kludge to allow "Joliet extensions" which may
allow the disk to be read by the Microslop OS. I say "may" because
Microslop has proven to be highly inferior when dealing with optical
media. In the past I've had nothing but trouble, but the future promises
never to use Microslop again. I shouldn't even use it but I need
to keep every avenue of recovery open -- even that garbage Microslop.

There is also a possible "-rock" option to create the Unix "Rock Ridge"
protocol, which is far, far, far superior in its capabilities than that
Microcrap Joliet. However, because these files are just e-books in a
simple directory structure there is no need for it.

Now it's burn, baby, burn!

The "-speed=2" option will keep the burn speed at a minimum which
is much better for creating a faithful reproduction. But the burn
time will be a few hours, even for 25 Gb.

I don't use higher capacity bdr, such as 100 Gb, because they may
be more error prone.

I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

Conclusion:

Unless you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media
then you are a fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that
already.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

This is Nuxxie, out.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On 25/09/2024 17:40, Nux Vomica wrote:
> Conclusion:
>
> Unless you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media
> then you are a fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that
> already.

If you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media then you are a
fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that already.

Everybody else is using SSD or spinning rust...

--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Jonathan Swift.

On 2024-09-25, Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> wrote:
> Here is the GNU/Linux command:
>
> growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=2 -udf -iso-level 3 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -r -graft-points /<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/ ...
>
> Now it's burn, baby, burn!
>
> I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC
>

Thanks for sharing, I am impressed when you said you were only 24, I am
used to people my generation doing everything with unix and CLI/TUI
was happy, to be honest to read your article speacilly because you use
usenet and you said GNU/Linux <--- very happy.

Thank you you cheared my up a bit today.
Happy Hacking
ReK2

On 9/25/2024 2:00 PM, rek2 hispagatos wrote:
> On 2024-09-25, Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> wrote:
>> Here is the GNU/Linux command:
>>
>> growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=2 -udf -iso-level 3 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -r -graft-points /<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/ ...
>>
>> Now it's burn, baby, burn!
>>
>> I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC
>>
>
> Thanks for sharing, I am impressed when you said you were only 24,

He's a liar.

The IT failure 'Nux Vomica' (real name Larry A Piet - he told us so) is
in his early 40s and still lives at home.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 18:58:58 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

>
> Everybody else is using SSD or spinning rust...
>

Please speak only for thyself, for it is only for thyself that thou
canst speak.

Capisci? Verstehen Sie Mich? Understand?

One with a spinning rust brain cannot comprehend a fucking thing.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

In comp.os.linux.misc Nux Vomica <nv@linux.rocks> wrote:
> It's been about 2 years since I've backed up my e-books to optical disk.
<snip>

> The "-speed=2" option will keep the burn speed at a minimum which
> is much better for creating a faithful reproduction. But the burn
> time will be a few hours, even for 25 Gb.

I knew about this, but I am not sure of the benefit is worth
the time. If burned correctly then no issues.

> I don't use higher capacity bdr, such as 100 Gb, because they may
> be more error prone.
>
> I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

Never heard of these, will need to look into these, thanks.

<snip>
--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 20:44:50 -0000 (UTC), John McCue wrote:

>
>> The "-speed=2" option will keep the burn speed at a minimum which
>> is much better for creating a faithful reproduction. But the burn
>> time will be a few hours, even for 25 Gb.
>
> I knew about this, but I am not sure of the benefit is worth
> the time. If burned correctly then no issues.
>

Just do it before you retire for the night and when you
awake in the morning simply remove and label the disk.

If one is extremely concerned about data fidelity, then
there is dvdisaster:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvdisaster

GNU/Linux has the tools. The user must determine for himself
how far he wants to go.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On 25/09/2024 17:40, Nux Vomica wrote:
>
> Unless you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media
> then you are a fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that
> already.
>
>

People still using optical media in 2024 are the ones who are "fucking,
losing, asshole idiots".

On 9/25/2024 12:40 PM, Lameass Larry Piet wrote:

> I am 24 years old

Lie.

Can you get thru ONE day on cola without lying?

On 9/25/24 12:40, Nux Vomica wrote:
> It's been about 2 years since I've backed up my e-books to optical disk.
> Since then I have acquired a bit more and my e-library now sizes about
> 100 Gb.
>
> Holey fucking moley! If all those volumes were paper they would weigh
> a thousand fucking tons -- and that's no exaggeration.
>
> So I have to burn four 25 Gb bdr (that's Blu-Ray) disks.
>
> Here is the GNU/Linux command:
>
> growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=2 -udf -iso-level 3 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -r -graft-points /<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/ ...
>
> This will produce a hybrid UDF/ISO-9660 filesystem because ISO-9660
> by itself does not support files larger than 4.38 Gb.
>
> It will also allow direct copying of files without having to create
> an intermediate UDF/ISO-9660 file mounted as loop back.
>
> The "-J" option is a kludge to allow "Joliet extensions" which may
> allow the disk to be read by the Microslop OS. I say "may" because
> Microslop has proven to be highly inferior when dealing with optical
> media. In the past I've had nothing but trouble, but the future promises
> never to use Microslop again. I shouldn't even use it but I need
> to keep every avenue of recovery open -- even that garbage Microslop.
>
> There is also a possible "-rock" option to create the Unix "Rock Ridge"
> protocol, which is far, far, far superior in its capabilities than that
> Microcrap Joliet. However, because these files are just e-books in a
> simple directory structure there is no need for it.
>
> Now it's burn, baby, burn!
>
> The "-speed=2" option will keep the burn speed at a minimum which
> is much better for creating a faithful reproduction. But the burn
> time will be a few hours, even for 25 Gb.
>
> I don't use higher capacity bdr, such as 100 Gb, because they may
> be more error prone.
>
> I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC
>
> Conclusion:
>
> Unless you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media
> then you are a fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that
> already.
>
> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>
> This is Nuxxie, out.

If you're looking for a fight then you should at least end with over and
not out, the out might soon visit upon you anyway :-)

That said, what is the longevity of data on frisbies? Last time I looked
it was shitty and in the case of bdr's absolutely gaaaawdawful! SSD's
are not much better, and word is that a 16tb wd gold will do best. But
even that is risky seeing that you might wake up one morning to find
that the technology along that of proprietary ebooks has ceased to
exist: goodbye data. Maybe using all three is a better way to waste money.

On 2024-09-25 19:58, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 25/09/2024 17:40, Nux Vomica wrote:
>> Conclusion:
>>
>> Unless you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media
>> then you are a fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that
>> already.
>
> If you regularly burn your valuable data to optical media then you are a
> fucking, losing, asshole idiot -- but we knew that already.
>
> Everybody else is using SSD or spinning rust...
>
The cost of storage is lower for hard drives than BD-R, but adding data
to a SSD and putting it in the closet is a bad idea, since the data
isn't stable on it.

So you have to set it up in a NAS, which will increase the cost and
complexity and add to the overall power consumption.

BD-rs on the other hand I can just put on the shelf and not have to
think about again.

> Here is the GNU/Linux command:
>
> growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=2 -udf -iso-level 3 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -r
> -graft-points /<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/ ...
Thank you, but it is incomplete as we can see by the "...". I would like
to read it all. Can you supplement ?

Regards
Ralf

> The world has lost interest, it seems, in a highly valuable storage
> medium that is definitely superior to both HDD and SSD.
Why so ? I can buy many HDD and produce many backups fast. Can you explain
further ?

> I don't use higher capacity bdr, such as 100 Gb, because they may be
> more error prone.
What is the reason ? I would be more convenient to use bigger disks. Today
they all use 18 TB SSD (except me).

> I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):
I have never used. I thought they are expensive.

To make backups was never a matter of age. I am 62 and work with IT since
I was 18 in school. On my way I met amounts of people who laught when I
suggested to make a backup. They got their lesson soon, when their laptop
was stolen with all data on it (and of course with no backup in their
hands).

Best regards.
Ralf

On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 11:56:05 -0000 (UTC), Ralf Schneider wrote:

>>
>> growisofs -dvd-compat -speed=2 -udf -iso-level 3 -Z /dev/sr0 -J -r
>> -graft-points /<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/ ...
> Thank you, but it is incomplete as we can see by the "...". I would like
> to read it all. Can you supplement ?
>

The "..." indicates that the last portion, the "/<cd drive dir>/=/<local dir>/,"
can be repeated to map several directories:

/<cd drive dir1>/=/<local dir1>/ /<cd drive dir2>/=/<local dir2>/ ...

But there is a limit to how many directories can be mapped.
If too many are specified an error message may appear:

"warning - too many dirs - growisofs is not tar."

Note that this is not the only burning command possible. I use
it because it allows a direct burning of directories from HDD/SDD
to the BDR.

Another command sequence that allows burning arbitrary files (not just
directories) is the following.

For 25G BDR
-------------------

Create a file of size 24.3G:
truncate --size=24.3GB /some/dir/bluray.udf

Create udf file system and mount as loopback:

mkudffs -b 2048 -r 0x0201 /some/dir/bluray.udf

mount -t udf -o rw,loop /some/dir/bluray.udf /mount/point

Copy files to the mounted /some/dir/bluray.udf

Then burn:

umount /some/dir/bluray.udf

growisofs -speed=2 -Z /dev/sr0=/some/dir/bluray.udf

Before any burn using the "-dry-run" option is recommended.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 12:17:53 -0000 (UTC), Ralf Schneider wrote:

>> I don't use higher capacity bdr, such as 100 Gb, because they may be
>> more error prone.
> What is the reason ? I would be more convenient to use bigger disks. Today
> they all use 18 TB SSD (except me).
>

For me, the burn time would be too long since use speed=2x.

Also, it is difficult to gather 100G of material of the same
subject. I like to have one disk per subject.

>> I also use M-Disc because it will outlive me (I am 24 years old):
> I have never used. I thought they are expensive.

They are actually quite cheap -- if one can find a supplier.

>
> On my way I met amounts of people who laught when I
> suggested to make a backup. They got their lesson soon, when their laptop
> was stolen with all data on it (and of course with no backup in their
> hands).
>

Making regular backups, especially with optical disks, is a PITA
an thus it is expected that most people will reject the idea.

But it is an essential part of computing. I backup to USB HDD
about once per week and then to optical disk about once a year
(unless there are major changes, then more).

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 11:58:22 -0000 (UTC), Ralf Schneider wrote:

>> The world has lost interest, it seems, in a highly valuable storage
>> medium that is definitely superior to both HDD and SSD.
> Why so ? I can buy many HDD and produce many backups fast. Can you explain
> further ?

The technology of HDD/SDD means that the storage is essentially
volatile.

One can make backups in RAM and then never shut off the machine.
But once the power fails then all is instantly lost.

In contrast, a well made and well burned optical disk is essentially
a permanent storage.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.