On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 17:35:38 -0400, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> If it's obvious, why don't I hear it much ? It represents a loss of
> self-determination, a stone wall we can never penetrate ... forever
> trapped in our little tiny warped version of the universe.
>
> Actually, Plato's "Allegory Of The Cave" points to the same
> conclusion, he just kinda leaves off the last para -
> maybe for political reasons. Plato and Buddha were near-
> contemporaries and some ideas may have filtered across from the east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da

"Shariputra, form does not differ from emptiness; emptiness does not
differ from form. Form itself is emptiness, emptiness itself form.
Sensations, perceptions, formations, and consciousness are also like
this."

'The Heart Sutra'

On 29 Oct 2024 01:28:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> The sound of one hand clapping is deafening.

It’s actually quite easy to make the sound of one hand clapping: I worked
it out years ago. Just slap all your fingers (except your thumb) against
your palm at once.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 02:33:25 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On 29 Oct 2024 01:28:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> The sound of one hand clapping is deafening.
>
> It’s actually quite easy to make the sound of one hand clapping: I
> worked it out years ago. Just slap all your fingers (except your thumb)
> against your palm at once.

Try again, grasshopper.

A Zen master asks his student, “Without thinking good or evil, in this
very moment, What is your original Face?

…. Show me your Original Face, the face you had before your parents were
born.”

“Quickly, quickly, without thinking right and wrong…”

On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> On 29 Oct 2024 01:28:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> The sound of one hand clapping is deafening.
>
> It’s actually quite easy to make the sound of one hand clapping: I worked
> it out years ago. Just slap all your fingers (except your thumb) against
> your palm at once.

OK, but to get back to the technological thrust of this newsgroup,
what is the sound of one modem communicating?

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 03:47:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> OK, but to get back to the technological thrust of this newsgroup,
> what is the sound of one modem communicating?

It’s called “loopback”.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 03:47:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> OK, but to get back to the technological thrust of this newsgroup,
> what is the sound of one modem communicating?

Very annoying. Back in the day we would send out alerts to alphanumeric
pagers using the dialup TAP. When a site reported the alerts were not
being received it turned out the dispatcher had gotten sick and tired of
the nearby modem and had unplugged it.

On 28/10/2024 23:12, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> Depends on how to take "It's All About Us" ... we ARE a
>   sort of 'consciousness' the universe evolved. May be
>   more, maybe only us - wait awhile on that one.
>
You have no way of knowing that. It is an assumption.

>   However to evolve anything The Universe had to be there
>   already, fairly easy to confirm too. It just wasn't
>   "self aware" so to speak.
>
>   (yes, arguments have been made that causality may be
>   something of an illusion - but the math needed to
>   argue is WAY above my pay grade)
>
Dont need math.

>   As the Buddha said, there IS a reality. What it is in
>   all its nuances are denied to us however because of
>   what kind of beings we are. Likely would apply to ANY
>   kind of 'being', they'll always see it their way, and
>   just their way.
>
>   As for all the anthropic junk, well ... can't get rid
>   of it, it's the hub of this little discussion, but IMHO
>   there's still WAY more than is wise. Anthropic too
>   oft incorporates ego/pride/prejudice/etc and then we
>   get 'gods' in robes telling us it IS all about us, that
>   the planets circle ours for our amusement and affirmation -
>   oh, and all the heretics must be burned.

Anthropic means for example that the Universe appear to us a a sequence
of causally linked events in space time because we cant comprehend its
totality.
That is not how it is, that's how we relate to it

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 29/10/2024 03:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 29 Oct 2024 01:28:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> The sound of one hand clapping is deafening.
>>
>> It’s actually quite easy to make the sound of one hand clapping: I worked
>> it out years ago. Just slap all your fingers (except your thumb) against
>> your palm at once.
>
> OK, but to get back to the technological thrust of this newsgroup,
> what is the sound of one modem communicating?
>
You shouldn't have said that. My fibre modem Ethernet fell out of the
back of my router again.
The Universe IS conscious *and it hates me*!
--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 10/28/24 6:10 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/27/24 5:34 PM, D wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 27 Oct 2024, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/10/2024 05:35, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/24 10:21 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 02:06:21 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Our whole universe was in a hot dense state..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As I look around, I see some in this noisegroup who still seem to be
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> that state ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Normally these groups are VERY quiet. But then it's only
>>>>>>    about a week before elections.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    As for the universe, it USED to be in a 'hot dense state',
>>>>>>    but has cooled-off considerably. If 'dark energy' calx are
>>>>>>    correct we're already on the downside - headed for icy doom.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well so says the metaphysics of the classical scientific world view.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are surfing a wave of entropy created by the big bang and will all
>>>>> end up washed up the beach gasping and then die.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course  the metaphysics of the classical scientific world view is
>>>>> only a man made theory, when it comes down to it. And can neither be
>>>>> proven true or false.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The world actually can be proven true. G.E. Moore did it many decades
>>>> ago. Here's a hand!
>>>
>>>
>>>  Even the Buddha said the universe was "real" - just
>>>  that creatures like US, maybe any, could never really
>>>  see it's entirety - barely a key-hole view. Our evolution,
>>>  bodies, senses, brains ... we see things through "Human-
>>>  Colored Glasses" and that's our kinda faux view of things.
>>
>> I think this is pretty obvious. I also think it shows that Buddha was a
>> wise man!
>
> If it's obvious, why don't I hear it much ? It represents

Maybe you are talking with the wrong people? I think about 100% of the
people I talk with accept that the world is real.

As for not knowing the entire world, that is also not a shocking
revelation. Just look at the theoretical amount of information that can be
stored in the brain vs the amount of information that makes up the world.
The world is bigger.

Or coming at it from another angle, just look at our limited capacities
across the wave spectrum, and compare with all the events out in the world
taking place all across the spectrum.

The second paragraph not many people think about, so that is probably why
you (or I) never hear that much.

> a loss of self-determination, a stone wall we can never
> penetrate ... forever trapped in our little tiny warped
> version of the universe.

I don't understand this.

> Actually, Plato's "Allegory Of The Cave" points to the
> same conclusion, he just kinda leaves off the last para -
> maybe for political reasons. Plato and Buddha were near-
> contemporaries and some ideas may have filtered across
> from the east.

This is most likely the truth. Have a look at the gymno-sophists. There is
proof of interaction between ancient greece and india.

On 10/29/24 07:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 29/10/2024 03:47, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2024-10-29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 29 Oct 2024 01:28:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> The sound of one hand clapping is deafening.
>>>
>>> It’s actually quite easy to make the sound of one hand clapping: I
>>> worked
>>> it out years ago. Just slap all your fingers (except your thumb) against
>>> your palm at once.
>>
>> OK, but to get back to the technological thrust of this newsgroup,
>> what is the sound of one modem communicating?
>>
> You shouldn't have said that. My fibre modem Ethernet fell out of the
> back of my router again.
> The Universe IS conscious *and it hates me*!

JeffRelf> As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse,
> "residual eXergy" (potential entropy) fuels both "life" (games) & gravity.

tnp: that doesn't answer Heidegger's stupid question.

"residual eXergy" (potential entropy) fuels both "life" (games) & gravity.
Whether it's enough or not depends on what kind of a being you might be.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 11:32:29 +0100, D wrote:

> This is most likely the truth. Have a look at the gymno-sophists. There
> is proof of interaction between ancient greece and india.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism

When the Taliban blew up the Buddhas of Bamiyan many people wondered what
Buddhist statues were doing in Afghanistan. The more pertinent question
would be what Moslems were doing in Afghanistan.

On 2024-10-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 03:47:23 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> OK, but to get back to the technological thrust of this newsgroup,
>> what is the sound of one modem communicating?
>
> Very annoying. Back in the day we would send out alerts to alphanumeric
> pagers using the dialup TAP. When a site reported the alerts were not
> being received it turned out the dispatcher had gotten sick and tired of
> the nearby modem and had unplugged it.

We had a test routine running at the local 911 centre that would place
test calls on the direct number corresponding to each incoming line
if it hadn't had any activity after a certain period of time. No
modem noises, but to distinguish our calls from actual 911 calls,
we would get the modem to play "Mary had a little lamb" on the line
to tell the operator that this was a test call. If we still didn't
receive a call record we would raise an alarm.

One night the entire telco central office went down, and our alarm
was the first warning anyone got. <sticks feather in cap>

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | We'll go down in history as the
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | first society that wouldn't save
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \ if you read it the right way. | effective. -- Kurt Vonnegut

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 07:19:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> My fibre modem Ethernet fell out of the back of my router again.
> The Universe IS conscious *and it hates me*!

No, you’re just too cheap to replace Ethernet cables with broken clips.

On 29 Oct 2024 16:19:23 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> When the Taliban blew up the Buddhas of Bamiyan many people wondered
> what Buddhist statues were doing in Afghanistan. The more pertinent
> question would be what Moslems were doing in Afghanistan.

You *do* realize that Afghanistan has had people in it for longer than
Islam (or Christianity, or Judaism or Buddhism for that matter) has been
around?

Notice place names like (Afghan) “Kandahar” and (elsewhere) “Iskandaria”?
They are both local variations on “Alexandria”. That name happened to be a
favourite of Alexander the Great; wherever he stopped to set up a garrison
to watch over his ever-expanding empire, he would proclaim “let’s call
this place ‘Alexandria’”. And so he left a string of places called by
various variations on that name right through his conquests.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 20:53:27 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> You *do* realize that Afghanistan has had people in it for longer than
> Islam (or Christianity, or Judaism or Buddhism for that matter) has been
> around?

Yes, Captain Obvious.

On 10/28/24 22:08, rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 02:33:25 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On 29 Oct 2024 01:28:17 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> The sound of one hand clapping is deafening.
>>
>> It’s actually quite easy to make the sound of one hand clapping: I
>> worked it out years ago. Just slap all your fingers (except your thumb)
>> against your palm at once.
>
> Try again, grasshopper.
>
> A Zen master asks his student, “Without thinking good or evil, in this
> very moment, What is your original Face?
>
> …. Show me your Original Face, the face you had before your parents were
> born.”
>
> “Quickly, quickly, without thinking right and wrong…”

My dick makes more sense than your Zen master.