rbowman wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:22:56 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:16:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal,
>>>> they're working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the
>>>> same pool no matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>>
>>> I don't know if it will happen but I read an article this morning that
>>> Russia is forking the Linux kernel as a fork you to Torvalds.
>>
>> Will the Russians follow the GPL? :-D
>
> So far they pay lip service to it in Astra Linux.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_Linux
>
> Russia, China, or any other country that the US might sanction at the drop
> of a hat would be stupid not to have a plan. China has Kylin, based on
> Ubuntu. Cuba's Nova has been on again and off again. Like DFS they really
> prefer Windows if they can get it. Then there's North Korea's Red Star OS.
> I'm sure that's all sorts of free and open with their fork of Firefox.
>
the world plan is to defeat the usa

> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>
>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>
>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>
>> What's the lesson here?

The lesson is that with GNU/Linux we have software freedom. We are
free of the shackles of greedy businessmen and evil politicians who
want to control and tax us.

Great advocacy, Dumfsck!

--
'What -hh said about Photoshop - expensive, waste, Gimp does the same
for free - is exactly the written position of most if not all
"advocates" on cola.' - Dumfsck, lying shamelessly

On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>   From
>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>
>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>
>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>
>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>
>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>
>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>
>> Choice is good.
>
> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.

It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
strength. It's how it says completely open source.

Choice is good.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:16:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>
> I don't know if it will happen but I read an article this morning that
> Russia is forking the Linux kernel as a fork you to Torvalds.

I saw that also. I think it's kind of out of necessity because some morons
are blocking Russian developers from Linux kernel development due to the
Ukrainian war. Like it's the fault (if there is any fault) of the Russian
people what their government does. This is NOT what you would call "open
source." Sanctions haven't worked against Russia, let's see how well Linux
kernel "blockades" work against Russian Linux developers.

I've also read that more was made of this than was intended. So I'm not sure
which story to believe. I DO know that at least one Russian kernel developer
was blocked from contributing without going through the normal procedures
(and without acknowledgment of what he's done for the kernel) by some
censor-crazed committee or (probably) some small-minded committee member.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-29 12:11 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:16:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>
>> I don't know if it will happen but I read an article this morning that
>> Russia is forking the Linux kernel as a fork you to Torvalds.
>
> I encourage Russia to do so. As I posted in the Lunduke Locals page, I
> would encourage every country under the sun to strongly limit its
> reliance on Western technology. We've already seen what can be done with
> technology that passes through Israel. The United States is now showing
> that it is ready and willing to cause you all sorts of issues if you
> don't play ball with its demands.

That's probably playing into it also. It appears that some small-minded
morons in the Linux development world can't keep their Woke politics
separate from technology.

Worthless twits.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>
>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>
>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>
>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>
>>> Choice is good.
>>
>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>
> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>
> Choice is good.

I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
proprietary software are opting to jump ship.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 2024-10-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>>
>>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>>
>>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>>
>>>> Choice is good.
>>>
>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>
>> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
>> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
>> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
>> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
>> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>>
>> Choice is good.
>
> I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
> lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
> like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
> bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
> proprietary software are opting to jump ship.

I'm not sure how you're getting "Marx" connected to Linux. Marx demanded
compliance, Linux is for choice and freedom. It seems the *lack* of control
and slavish compliance is what you don't like about Linux.

Choice is good. I don't know anything about Serenity or RiscOS, but I've
tried BSD and Haiku (if you don't like Linux I'm pretty sure you won't like
either one of them, but it won't hurt to give them a shot). I'll check out
RiscOS and Serenity — I like the name of Serenity at any rate.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>>
>>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>>
>>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>>
>>>> Choice is good.
>>>
>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>
>> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
>> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
>> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
>> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
>> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>>
>> Choice is good.
>
> I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
> lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
> like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
> bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
> proprietary software are opting to jump ship.

I'm guessing you didn't look up Serenity or RiscOS. Serenity has to be
compiled in Linux and it runs in QEMU (as a virtual machine). RiscOS is
designed for Raspberries and other small ARM CPU, one board computers.

Serenity touts a 1990s style desktop with a late 2000s Linux vibe. I'm
trying to figure out why that's even a "thing."

But if people want it, that's their choice and they're welcome to it.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 06:55:28 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I've also read that more was made of this than was intended. So I'm not
> sure which story to believe. I DO know that at least one Russian kernel
> developer was blocked from contributing without going through the normal
> procedures (and without acknowledgment of what he's done for the kernel)
> by some censor-crazed committee or (probably) some small-minded
> committee member.

Several developers with .ru email addresses or 'Russian' names were
removed. Then Torvalds jumped into it calling anyone who protested
'Russian trolls'. He's a Finn so there is some history there but he should
have kept his mouth shut.

Le 2024-10-30 à 12:27, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-10-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Choice is good.
>>>>
>>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>>
>>> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
>>> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
>>> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
>>> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
>>> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>>>
>>> Choice is good.
>>
>> I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
>> lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
>> like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
>> bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
>> proprietary software are opting to jump ship.
>
> I'm not sure how you're getting "Marx" connected to Linux. Marx demanded
> compliance, Linux is for choice and freedom. It seems the *lack* of control
> and slavish compliance is what you don't like about Linux.

I was saying that the Marxists are taking over the Linux world, not that
the system itself is Marxist in nature. I used to see it that way but
it's pretty clear that there is nothing tyrannical about the Linux
world... for now. Those woke clowns are trying desperately to change all
of that.

> Choice is good. I don't know anything about Serenity or RiscOS, but I've
> tried BSD and Haiku (if you don't like Linux I'm pretty sure you won't like
> either one of them, but it won't hurt to give them a shot). I'll check out
> RiscOS and Serenity — I like the name of Serenity at any rate.

It looks like RiscOS is running on the Raspberry Pi for the time being.
To be honest, it will be nice for people who bought that hardware to
play around with something other than Linux for a change. Still, I like
that such an old operating system is being made to work with current
demands. We can at least be sure that the core of the system is very light.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

Le 2024-10-30 à 13:08, RonB a écrit :
> On 2024-10-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Choice is good.
>>>>
>>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>>
>>> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
>>> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
>>> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
>>> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
>>> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>>>
>>> Choice is good.
>>
>> I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
>> lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
>> like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
>> bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
>> proprietary software are opting to jump ship.
>
> I'm guessing you didn't look up Serenity or RiscOS. Serenity has to be
> compiled in Linux and it runs in QEMU (as a virtual machine). RiscOS is
> designed for Raspberries and other small ARM CPU, one board computers.
>
> Serenity touts a 1990s style desktop with a late 2000s Linux vibe. I'm
> trying to figure out why that's even a "thing."
>
> But if people want it, that's their choice and they're welcome to it.

I hadn't looked up much about Serenity but knew what it was. As for
RiscOS, I knew that it was for the Raspberries but thought to mention it
not only because a lot of people are getting Raspberries, but because a
lot of computers in general are moving to Arm.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 2024-10-31, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-10-30 à 13:08, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-10-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>>>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Choice is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>>>
>>>> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
>>>> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
>>>> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
>>>> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
>>>> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>>>>
>>>> Choice is good.
>>>
>>> I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
>>> lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
>>> like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
>>> bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
>>> proprietary software are opting to jump ship.
>>
>> I'm guessing you didn't look up Serenity or RiscOS. Serenity has to be
>> compiled in Linux and it runs in QEMU (as a virtual machine). RiscOS is
>> designed for Raspberries and other small ARM CPU, one board computers.
>>
>> Serenity touts a 1990s style desktop with a late 2000s Linux vibe. I'm
>> trying to figure out why that's even a "thing."
>>
>> But if people want it, that's their choice and they're welcome to it.
>
> I hadn't looked up much about Serenity but knew what it was. As for
> RiscOS, I knew that it was for the Raspberries but thought to mention it
> not only because a lot of people are getting Raspberries, but because a
> lot of computers in general are moving to Arm.

Okay. But I think the most popular OS on the Raspberry Pi is still Debian.
(I may be wrong about that. I have a Raspberry, but it's in storage in
Texas, and I'll probably never see it again.)

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-30, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Oct 2024 06:55:28 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> I've also read that more was made of this than was intended. So I'm not
>> sure which story to believe. I DO know that at least one Russian kernel
>> developer was blocked from contributing without going through the normal
>> procedures (and without acknowledgment of what he's done for the kernel)
>> by some censor-crazed committee or (probably) some small-minded
>> committee member.
>
> Several developers with .ru email addresses or 'Russian' names were
> removed. Then Torvalds jumped into it calling anyone who protested
> 'Russian trolls'. He's a Finn so there is some history there but he should
> have kept his mouth shut.

Yes, he should have. I appreciate Linux and the work Linus Torvalds still
does for it, but if you want an open source OS you've got to separate your
politics from the technology. That goes for the moron Woke crap as well.

Finland was actually part of Sweden until 1809 when it became part of Russia
in (I'm guessing) their war with Sweden. The Finns declared independence
after the Soviet Revolution and, for the most part, the Soviets gave them
their independence. So, until very recent history, I think the relationship
was more or less peaceful with a good deal of trade between the two
countries.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-31, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> Le 2024-10-30 à 12:27, RonB a écrit :
>> On 2024-10-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-30 2:46 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-29, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-29 3:08 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2024 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>   From
>>>>>>>>>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
>>>>>>>>> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
>>>>>>>>> many Linux distros.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now distrowatch lists 165 active x86_64 desktop Linux distros.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But 8-10 distros make up 90% of Linux desktop users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's the lesson here?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People fork for the sake of forking rather than to improve anything.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lesson? Linux is open source and people are free do what they want with
>>>>>> it. No justification needed for forking it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Choice is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is great in theory, but everyone seems to want to have their own
>>>>> distribution so rather than working together for a common goal, they're
>>>>> working apart. Theoretically, the improvements go into the same pool no
>>>>> matter what but I wonder if they actually do.
>>>>
>>>> It's great in practice. I don't WANT everyone working for a common goal, or
>>>> a single distribution. One distribution could be controlled by one group of
>>>> people. One distribution could more easily be attacked with an exploit. The
>>>> so-called "weakness" in Linux (too many distributions) is to me its
>>>> strength. It's how it says completely open source.
>>>>
>>>> Choice is good.
>>>
>>> I'm noticing that a lot of people who think the way you and I do have
>>> lost confidence in Linux and have started to move toward other projects
>>> like Serenity, BSD, Haiku and now RiscOS. Linux is starting to smell as
>>> bad as Marx did so some people with traditional values who also hate
>>> proprietary software are opting to jump ship.
>>
>> I'm not sure how you're getting "Marx" connected to Linux. Marx demanded
>> compliance, Linux is for choice and freedom. It seems the *lack* of control
>> and slavish compliance is what you don't like about Linux.
>
> I was saying that the Marxists are taking over the Linux world, not that
> the system itself is Marxist in nature. I used to see it that way but
> it's pretty clear that there is nothing tyrannical about the Linux
> world... for now. Those woke clowns are trying desperately to change all
> of that.

Okay. My mistake. I thought we were still talking about the Linux
distributions not "working in common" and instead forking off into
different distributions. I missed the pivot.

>> Choice is good. I don't know anything about Serenity or RiscOS, but I've
>> tried BSD and Haiku (if you don't like Linux I'm pretty sure you won't like
>> either one of them, but it won't hurt to give them a shot). I'll check out
>> RiscOS and Serenity — I like the name of Serenity at any rate.
>
> It looks like RiscOS is running on the Raspberry Pi for the time being.
> To be honest, it will be nice for people who bought that hardware to
> play around with something other than Linux for a change. Still, I like
> that such an old operating system is being made to work with current
> demands. We can at least be sure that the core of the system is very light.

Yep. On the WYSE 5070 thin client that I bought, there is 8 GB storage built
in (in addition to the 64GB SSD). So on that 8GB "drive" I installed the
very small and lightweight BunsenLabs Linux. It uses Debian and the OpenBox
desktop (they say it's a continuation of CrunchBang Linux). It works pretty
well on that WYSE. I dual-boot Linux Mint Xfce on the 64GB SSD — which also
works fine.

These thin clients are actually cheaper and more useful than the Raspberry
Pi and other small, one board computers. About $30 (or less) shipped if
you're patient on eBay. They aren't ARM though, they run Intel or AMD (on
the 5060) 64 bit CPUs. Very low wattage, no fans, just a big heat sync.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 10/26/24 9:30 AM, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
> Le 24-10-2024, DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> a écrit :
>> From
>> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/export/
>
> Let say that the major part of this list is only different versions of
> the same product. I'll try o remember that when you say there are too
> many Linux distros.
>

Yes, its effectively versioning, but for older versions to still be on
the list is a sign that MS is still actively maintaining these older
version (along with the newer). The support is probably little more
than security updates (not new features), because that's good policy and
a recognition that user bases don't automatically migrate to newer
versions, even when the newer versions are made available at zero cost.

-hh

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 06:18:59 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> Okay. But I think the most popular OS on the Raspberry Pi is still
> Debian.
> (I may be wrong about that. I have a Raspberry, but it's in storage in
> Texas, and I'll probably never see it again.)

Raspian was dropped and the current Raspberry Pi OS is Debian Bookworm
based. There are other options but the Pi I bought came with the Pi OS on
a microSSD and I saw no reason to get another. Some have even tried
Windows 11 on the Pi 5 and it sort of works. Ubuntu is another popular
distro but that's a Debian derivative.

https://www.xda-developers.com/best-operating-systems-for-raspberry-pi-5/

Sort of surprising when I did the apt update/upgrade on the Pi yesterday I
got the October VS Code release, 1.95 and when I update the Fedora box
I'll get it. It's a snap on Ubuntu and still 1.93.1.

I haven't went to Ubuntu 24 so maybe that has the newer snap.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 06:39:42 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> These thin clients are actually cheaper and more useful than the
> Raspberry Pi and other small, one board computers. About $30 (or less)
> shipped if you're patient on eBay. They aren't ARM though, they run
> Intel or AMD (on the 5060) 64 bit CPUs. Very low wattage, no fans, just
> a big heat sync.

How many GPIOs does your thin client have :) The Canakit for the Pi 5 has
a cut little fan, about 1 1/2" square. I can't hear it although I do feel
a little warm air. Cooling is recommended for the 5; push it too hard and
it will throttle down otherwise.

On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 06:27:43 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> Finland was actually part of Sweden until 1809 when it became part of
> Russia in (I'm guessing) their war with Sweden. The Finns declared
> independence after the Soviet Revolution and, for the most part, the
> Soviets gave them their independence. So, until very recent history, I
> think the relationship was more or less peaceful with a good deal of
> trade between the two countries.

Well, there was that little Winter War:

https://www.sabaton.net/historical-facts/simo-hayha-born/

That was followed by the Continuation War with Germany on their side that
led to the Brits declaring war on Finland.

Then there was the Lapland War. The Moscow Armistice ended the
Continuation War. Germany was already pulling back to Norway but the
Soviets thought the Finns should be a little more proactive. The Finns and
Germans more or less pretended to be at war. Mannerheim sent a letter to
Hitler:

"Our German brothers-in-arms will forever remain in our hearts. The
Germans in Finland were certainly not the representatives of foreign
despotism but helpers and brothers-in-arms. But even in such cases
foreigners are in difficult positions requiring such tact. I can assure
you that during the past years nothing whatsoever happened that could have
induced us to consider the German troops intruders or oppressors. I
believe that the attitude of the German Army in northern Finland towards
the local population and authorities will enter our history as a unique
example of a correct and cordial relationship [...] I deem it my duty to
lead my people out of the war. I cannot and I will not turn the arms which
you have so liberally supplied us against Germans. I harbour the hope that
you, even if you disapprove of my attitude, will wish and endeavour like
myself and all other Finns to terminate our former relations without
increasing the gravity of the situation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapland_War

Germany has also taken part in the Finnish Civil War in 1918 on the side
of the Whites led by Mannerheim. The Reds were terminated with extreme
prejudice. Germany lost WWI or there would have been a much closer link.

On 2024-10-31, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Oct 2024 06:39:42 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> These thin clients are actually cheaper and more useful than the
>> Raspberry Pi and other small, one board computers. About $30 (or less)
>> shipped if you're patient on eBay. They aren't ARM though, they run
>> Intel or AMD (on the 5060) 64 bit CPUs. Very low wattage, no fans, just
>> a big heat sync.
>
> How many GPIOs does your thin client have :) The Canakit for the Pi 5 has
> a cut little fan, about 1 1/2" square. I can't hear it although I do feel
> a little warm air. Cooling is recommended for the 5; push it too hard and
> it will throttle down otherwise.

I don't know what a GPIO is, but I'm guessing it has something to do with
input and output(?) — maybe for a camera? My WYSE 5070 has seven standard
USB ports (five 3.x and two 2.x) plus a USB-C port that doubles as a Display
Port. A speaker jack, a headphone jack, a 9-pin serial port, two standard
Display Ports, an add-on VGA port and an Ethernet port. WiFi is optional. I
do have a WiFi card on another WYSE 5070 but not on the one I use. I
normally use Ethernet cables for my computers.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On Fri, 1 Nov 2024 06:23:32 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I don't know what a GPIO is, but I'm guessing it has something to do
> with input and output(?) — maybe for a camera? My WYSE 5070 has seven
> standard USB ports (five 3.x and two 2.x) plus a USB-C port that doubles
> as a Display Port. A speaker jack, a headphone jack, a 9-pin serial
> port, two standard Display Ports, an add-on VGA port and an Ethernet
> port. WiFi is optional. I do have a WiFi card on another WYSE 5070 but
> not on the one I use. I normally use Ethernet cables for my computers.

https://pinout.xyz/

General Purpose I/O. The Pi breaks out most of the processor pins to a 40
pin header. Some of them have alternate uses. For example the SPI can be
used with accelerometers, temperature/humidity sensors, and other
peripherals. The strictly general purpose ones can be used however you
want. You can read inputs like buttons or use the outputs to activate
LEDS, servos, and so forth.

In addition to the processor pins there are 4 regular USB-A ports and HDMI
so you can use it as a general purpose Linux box without going near to
pins.

The Pico, being a microcontroller has a similar layout but more of the
GPIO pins have specific uses. Only GPIO 22 doesn't have an alternate use.

https://datasheets.raspberrypi.com/pico/Pico-R3-A4-Pinout.pdf

The Pico uses the RP2040 Arm Cortex M0+ processor. The Pi 5 uses the
Broadcom BCM2712 SOC based on the Arm Cortex-A76. On the Arm world, 'M'
parts are the microcontroller profile, and 'A' are general purpose
application profile. There is also the 'R' realtime profile.

There are extensions but the base ISA is uniform across all Arm designs.
x86 tended to be the wild west and it's only very recently that Intel and
AMD decided to work together against the shared threat. It's a late
starter but the RISC-V people are doing the same.

Anyway that's what GPIO means. More detailed:

https://s-o-c.org/how-many-gpio-registers-are-in-arm-processor/

https://www.hackster.io/raspberry-pi/projects

The Pi blurs the distinction between a microcontroller and microprocessor.
That's why the argument that the Intel NUC was aimed at the Raspberry Pi
market completely missed the point.

Windows on Arm as implemented by Microsoft isn't going to look any
different than Windows on x86. It would be interesting to see what you
could do with Windows on a Pi.

IceBerg(%) wrote: the world plan is to defeat the usa

That's plan A. Plan B is to join 'em.

Relf wrote:
> IceBerg(%) wrote: the world plan is to defeat the usa
>
> That's plan A. Plan B is to join 'em.
>
i'm plan C i don't care about them at all