On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:

> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>
> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.

You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>
> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
> through the Senate. Very enlightening.

Would love to see a list of such bills.

Doing some quick research I find:

* For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
* George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
* Equality Act - 2021
* Build Back Better Act - 2021
* Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021

Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
(though would need to do more research).

And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:

* Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
* Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015

Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
* Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
* NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019

Might have been better if those had passed.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
><fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>
>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>
>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>
>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>
>> Because he has me killfiled.
>
>But he saw my post.

But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.

--
#nevertrump

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 9 days.

61) Trump tried to terminate DACA, which protects
immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
Luckily, this was struck down by the courts.

62) Trump called climate change a "HOAX."

On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:29 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:13:04?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
><dp4rhjh4ko44an7utefiii53h1b934q5qb@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> The issues are dealt with in the House which *is* population proportionate.
>>>> Each
>>>> State gets two Senators and the People get a rep for about every 700k. What's
>>>> the point of two Houses if both are constructed the same way? Even the Brits
>>>> have Commons and Lords.
>>>
>>> Not in contention. But I think the Senate and the Electoral College end up
>>> causing harm, for the reasons I have stated. I back more equal representation,
>>> not just in the House but in general. I do know the system will not change to
>>> have these things I think would be better.
>>
>> An all popular vote legislature would be too volatile and too closely follow
>> the
>> current populist political fashions.
>
>How would it make it more volatile?

Because House control switches back and forth continually. Also because the
Senate has rules and traditions that slow change.

A House majority is usually dozens of seats providing no block to the
opposition. A Senate majority is usually only a few seats, not enough to
completely block the minority.

Compare Johnson's difficulty getting legislation voted on to Pelosi's.

>> The rules governing the Senate and
>> Executive branches slow change enough to make sure it is deliberate, not just
>> running with the current flow.
>
>You can have safeguards... needing 60% or something of that nature. Right now
>we can have the whim of, say, cult like group such as Trump supporters thwart
>the will of the people as a whole.

That's just not true.

The '60%' is in regards to the filibuster in the Senate.

There is no such safeguard on the House side - for either party.

That said, legislation must pass BOTH Houses. Fashionable House whims usually
die or become heavily modified in the Senate.

The Senate is the safeguard you seek.

--
#nevertrump

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 9 days.

61) Trump tried to terminate DACA, which protects
immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
Luckily, this was struck down by the courts.

62) Trump called climate change a "HOAX."

On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
><6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>
>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>
>You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>
>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>
>Would love to see a list of such bills.
>
>Doing some quick research I find:
>
>* For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>* George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>* Equality Act - 2021
>* Build Back Better Act - 2021
>* Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>
>Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>(though would need to do more research).
>
>And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>
>* Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>* Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>
>Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>* Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>* NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>
>Might have been better if those had passed.

So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
lawmaking process.

Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)

--
#nevertrump

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 9 days.

61) Trump tried to terminate DACA, which protects
immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
Luckily, this was struck down by the courts.

62) Trump called climate change a "HOAX."

On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:

> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>
>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>
>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>
>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>
>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>
>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>
>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>> * Equality Act - 2021
>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>
>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>> (though would need to do more research).
>>
>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>
>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>
>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>
>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>
> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
> lawmaking process.

What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>
> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)

I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
of the country.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:58:00 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<ftsthjhavncokr96df3po087c4425vdto5@4ax.com>:

> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:29 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:13:04?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <dp4rhjh4ko44an7utefiii53h1b934q5qb@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The issues are dealt with in the House which *is* population proportionate.
>>>>> Each
>>>>> State gets two Senators and the People get a rep for about every 700k. What's
>>>>> the point of two Houses if both are constructed the same way? Even the Brits
>>>>> have Commons and Lords.
>>>>
>>>> Not in contention. But I think the Senate and the Electoral College end up
>>>> causing harm, for the reasons I have stated. I back more equal representation,
>>>> not just in the House but in general. I do know the system will not change to
>>>> have these things I think would be better.
>>>
>>> An all popular vote legislature would be too volatile and too closely follow
>>> the
>>> current populist political fashions.
>>
>> How would it make it more volatile?
>
> Because House control switches back and forth continually. Also because the
> Senate has rules and traditions that slow change.

The question is how would it make it more volatile than a hypothetical
situation... one with checks and balances and systems to slow things down but
also tied more closely to what the American people as a whole want?

> A House majority is usually dozens of seats providing no block to the
> opposition. A Senate majority is usually only a few seats, not enough to
> completely block the minority.
>
> Compare Johnson's difficulty getting legislation voted on to Pelosi's.

Sounds like you are comparing the House to the Senate... not comparing what we
have with a hypothetical. Heck, the hypothetical has not even been described.
A friend of mine proposes redrawing state lines ever few years so that states
have closer to equal populations. I think that is a bit silly, but maybe have
the Senate set up so it is not by state but by some other cross-state district
which allows for something similar. Again, I get it is not going to happen...
I am talking what would lead to better representation and having the will of
the people more closely followed. That would not be the only change needed --
a big one would also be getting money out of the process as much as we can.
>
>>> The rules governing the Senate and
>>> Executive branches slow change enough to make sure it is deliberate, not just
>>> running with the current flow.
>>
>> You can have safeguards... needing 60% or something of that nature. Right now
>> we can have the whim of, say, cult like group such as Trump supporters thwart
>> the will of the people as a whole.
>
> That's just not true.
>
> The '60%' is in regards to the filibuster in the Senate.

Not in my hypothetical. LOL! You seem to be jumping around.
>
> There is no such safeguard on the House side - for either party.
>
> That said, legislation must pass BOTH Houses. Fashionable House whims usually
> die or become heavily modified in the Senate.
>
> The Senate is the safeguard you seek.

No, it is not. It is a body that serves the rich.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

I want a safeguard for the people, not for the top 1/10th of 1%.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:

> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>
>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>
>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>
>> But he saw my post.
>
> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.

He has worked hard to lose.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
><9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>
>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>
>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>
>>> But he saw my post.
>>
>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>
>He has worked hard to lose.

You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.

--
#nevertrump

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 7 days.

63) Trump pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement.

64) Trump rolled back more than 100 environmental protections.

On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:24:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<oid2ij907fb1ukhq9c6ia2l6fuu3acr1iu@4ax.com>:

> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>>
>>>> But he saw my post.
>>>
>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>>
>> He has worked hard to lose.
>
> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.

It clearly does.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 28 Oct 2024 03:46:30 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:58:00?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
><ftsthjhavncokr96df3po087c4425vdto5@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:29 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:13:04?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <dp4rhjh4ko44an7utefiii53h1b934q5qb@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The issues are dealt with in the House which *is* population proportionate.
>>>>>> Each
>>>>>> State gets two Senators and the People get a rep for about every 700k. What's
>>>>>> the point of two Houses if both are constructed the same way? Even the Brits
>>>>>> have Commons and Lords.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not in contention. But I think the Senate and the Electoral College end up
>>>>> causing harm, for the reasons I have stated. I back more equal representation,
>>>>> not just in the House but in general. I do know the system will not change to
>>>>> have these things I think would be better.
>>>>
>>>> An all popular vote legislature would be too volatile and too closely follow
>>>> the
>>>> current populist political fashions.
>>>
>>> How would it make it more volatile?
>>
>> Because House control switches back and forth continually. Also because the
>> Senate has rules and traditions that slow change.
>
>The question is how would it make it more volatile than a hypothetical
>situation... one with checks and balances and systems to slow things down but
>also tied more closely to what the American people as a whole want?

The House is volatile because they only serve two year terms. It's in their
interest to respond to the political fashions of the moment. When they don't
the can be quickly voted out of office. I repeat, House control switches back
and forth continually.

>> A House majority is usually dozens of seats providing no block to the
>> opposition. A Senate majority is usually only a few seats, not enough to
>> completely block the minority.
>>
>> Compare Johnson's difficulty getting legislation voted on to Pelosi's.
>
>Sounds like you are comparing the House to the Senate... not comparing what we
>have with a hypothetical.

That doesn't make sense. Yes, I'm comparing the House to the Senate because
that is the balance you've been seeking throughout this thread. The House is
the proportionate representation you want. The Senate provides a check against
abuse by being structured for more deliberate function. Terms are longer, rules
are in place to prevent majority tyranny; all the thinks you hate about the
House are checked by the Senate and vice versa.

>Heck, the hypothetical has not even been described.
>A friend of mine proposes redrawing state lines ever few years so that states
>have closer to equal populations.

I SHARPLY disagree with that. Talk about taking power away from the People!

>I think that is a bit silly, but maybe have
>the Senate set up so it is not by state but by some other cross-state district
>which allows for something similar.

I disagree. The current structure works well enough for the US to become the
richest, most powerful and most culturally influential civilization that's ever
existed in the whole of humanity.

>Again, I get it is not going to happen...
>I am talking what would lead to better representation and having the will of
>the people more closely followed. That would not be the only change needed --
>a big one would also be getting money out of the process as much as we can.

There's a difference between critiquing government structure and being pissed
off because the opposition sometimes has control of it. Whatever adjustments
you might make, shifting state lines, Senate redesigning, new House rules, we
would still have one of either party in control of sections of government at all
times.
>>>> The rules governing the Senate and
>>>> Executive branches slow change enough to make sure it is deliberate, not just
>>>> running with the current flow.
>>>
>>> You can have safeguards... needing 60% or something of that nature. Right now
>>> we can have the whim of, say, cult like group such as Trump supporters thwart
>>> the will of the people as a whole.
>>
>> That's just not true.
>>
>> The '60%' is in regards to the filibuster in the Senate.
>
>Not in my hypothetical. LOL! You seem to be jumping around.

Then what is your hypothetical? I ask because 60% just happens to be how many
Senators it takes to get controversial legislation passed. Senate rule:
filibuster, imo, the filibuster rule should require actually performing the
filibuster, not simply threatening it.
>> There is no such safeguard on the House side - for either party.
>>
>> That said, legislation must pass BOTH Houses. Fashionable House whims usually
>> die or become heavily modified in the Senate.
>>
>> The Senate is the safeguard you seek.
>
>No, it is not. It is a body that serves the rich.

The House is NOT??

>http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
>
>I want a safeguard for the people, not for the top 1/10th of 1%.

Then start a grass roots movement for the People to donate most of the campaign
money. Get Citizens United reversed while you're at it.

--
#nevertrump

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 7 days.

63) Trump pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement.

64) Trump rolled back more than 100 environmental protections.

On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
><9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>
>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>
>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>
>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>
>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>
>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>
>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>
>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>
>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>
>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>
>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>
>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>
>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>> lawmaking process.
>
>What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>and things that benefit the rich over the general public.

I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."

The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
success!
>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>
>I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>of the country.

Run for office and represent them.

--
#nevertrump

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 7 days.

63) Trump pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement.

64) Trump rolled back more than 100 environmental protections.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:24:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
> <oid2ij907fb1ukhq9c6ia2l6fuu3acr1iu@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>>>
>>>>> But he saw my post.
>>>>
>>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>>>
>>> He has worked hard to lose.
>>
>> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.
>
> It clearly does.
>
skeeter is going to see this

On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:

> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>
>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>
>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>
>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>
>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>
>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>
>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>
>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>
>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>
>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>
>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>
>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>> lawmaking process.
>>
>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>
> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>
> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
> success!

We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>
>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>
>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>> of the country.
>
> Run for office and represent them.

That would not fix the system.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
> <8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:
>
>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>>
>>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>>
>>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>>
>>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>>
>>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>>
>>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>>
>>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>>
>>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>>
>>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>>> lawmaking process.
>>>
>>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>>
>> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
>> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>>
>> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
>> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
>> success!
>
> We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
> increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
> issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
> decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
> connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
> growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
> whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>>
>>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>>
>>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>>> of the country.
>>
>> Run for office and represent them.
>
> That would not fix the system.
>
>
then fire everyone and have no government

On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:37:12 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<kkd2ijhgv30l8rr7c4ba30fpdjnfr6elmj@4ax.com>:

> On 28 Oct 2024 03:46:30 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:58:00?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <ftsthjhavncokr96df3po087c4425vdto5@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:29 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:13:04?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <dp4rhjh4ko44an7utefiii53h1b934q5qb@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The issues are dealt with in the House which *is* population proportionate.
>>>>>>> Each
>>>>>>> State gets two Senators and the People get a rep for about every 700k. What's
>>>>>>> the point of two Houses if both are constructed the same way? Even the Brits
>>>>>>> have Commons and Lords.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not in contention. But I think the Senate and the Electoral College end up
>>>>>> causing harm, for the reasons I have stated. I back more equal representation,
>>>>>> not just in the House but in general. I do know the system will not change to
>>>>>> have these things I think would be better.
>>>>>
>>>>> An all popular vote legislature would be too volatile and too closely follow
>>>>> the
>>>>> current populist political fashions.
>>>>
>>>> How would it make it more volatile?
>>>
>>> Because House control switches back and forth continually. Also because the
>>> Senate has rules and traditions that slow change.
>>
>> The question is how would it make it more volatile than a hypothetical
>> situation... one with checks and balances and systems to slow things down but
>> also tied more closely to what the American people as a whole want?
>
> The House is volatile because they only serve two year terms. It's in their
> interest to respond to the political fashions of the moment. When they don't
> the can be quickly voted out of office. I repeat, House control switches back
> and forth continually.

As opposed to? Not sure what this is in response to.
>
>>> A House majority is usually dozens of seats providing no block to the
>>> opposition. A Senate majority is usually only a few seats, not enough to
>>> completely block the minority.
>>>
>>> Compare Johnson's difficulty getting legislation voted on to Pelosi's.
>>
>> Sounds like you are comparing the House to the Senate... not comparing what we
>> have with a hypothetical.
>
> That doesn't make sense. Yes, I'm comparing the House to the Senate because
> that is the balance you've been seeking throughout this thread. The House is
> the proportionate representation you want. The Senate provides a check against
> abuse by being structured for more deliberate function. Terms are longer,
> rules
> are in place to prevent majority tyranny; all the thinks you hate about the
> House are checked by the Senate and vice versa.

Not sure you are understanding what I am saying.
>
>> Heck, the hypothetical has not even been described.
>> A friend of mine proposes redrawing state lines ever few years so that states
>> have closer to equal populations.
>
> I SHARPLY disagree with that. Talk about taking power away from the People!

As I note I think it is silly.
>
>> I think that is a bit silly, but maybe have
>> the Senate set up so it is not by state but by some other cross-state district
>> which allows for something similar.
>
> I disagree. The current structure works well enough for the US to become the
> richest, most powerful and most culturally influential civilization that's ever
> existed in the whole of humanity.

I get you like the system as it is and I want something closer to equal
representation and where those who get the least representation tend to pay
the most to the rest of the country. We have some disagreements. I am OK with
that.
>
>> Again, I get it is not going to happen...
>> I am talking what would lead to better representation and having the will of
>> the people more closely followed. That would not be the only change needed --
>> a big one would also be getting money out of the process as much as we can.
>
> There's a difference between critiquing government structure and being pissed
> off because the opposition sometimes has control of it. Whatever adjustments
> you might make, shifting state lines, Senate redesigning, new House rules, we
> would still have one of either party in control of sections of government at
> all
> times.

It is not about the opposition having control. It is about a lack of equal
representation and federal funding being somewhat opposite of representation.
>
>>>>> The rules governing the Senate and
>>>>> Executive branches slow change enough to make sure it is deliberate, not just
>>>>> running with the current flow.
>>>>
>>>> You can have safeguards... needing 60% or something of that nature. Right now
>>>> we can have the whim of, say, cult like group such as Trump supporters thwart
>>>> the will of the people as a whole.
>>>
>>> That's just not true.
>>>
>>> The '60%' is in regards to the filibuster in the Senate.
>>
>> Not in my hypothetical. LOL! You seem to be jumping around.
>
> Then what is your hypothetical? I ask because 60% just happens to be how many
> Senators it takes to get controversial legislation passed. Senate rule:
> filibuster, imo, the filibuster rule should require actually performing the
> filibuster, not simply threatening it.

You are responding to a percent and not a concept. OK.
>
>>> There is no such safeguard on the House side - for either party.
>>>
>>> That said, legislation must pass BOTH Houses. Fashionable House whims usually
>>> die or become heavily modified in the Senate.
>>>
>>> The Senate is the safeguard you seek.
>>
>> No, it is not. It is a body that serves the rich.
>
> The House is NOT??

Both parties are paid for and beholden to the very rich.
>
>> http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
>>
>> I want a safeguard for the people, not for the top 1/10th of 1%.
>
> Then start a grass roots movement for the People to donate most of the campaign
> money. Get Citizens United reversed while you're at it.

Are you willing to join?

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:49:29 PM MST, "%" wrote
<joicnTetJ_HUobz6nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>>>
>>>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>>>> lawmaking process.
>>>>
>>>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>>>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>>>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>>>
>>> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
>>> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>>>
>>> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
>>> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
>>> success!
>>
>> We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
>> increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
>> issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
>> decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
>> connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
>> growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
>> whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>>>
>>>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>>>
>>>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>>>> of the country.
>>>
>>> Run for office and represent them.
>>
>> That would not fix the system.
>>
>>
> then fire everyone and have no government

My stuffed bear is going to take over.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:40:36 PM MST, "%" wrote
<joicnTitJ_Gop7z6nZ2dnZfqn_oAAAAA@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:24:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <oid2ij907fb1ukhq9c6ia2l6fuu3acr1iu@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But he saw my post.
>>>>>
>>>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>>>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>>>>
>>>> He has worked hard to lose.
>>>
>>> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.
>>
>> It clearly does.
>>
> skeeter is going to see this

But not understand.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:49:29 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <joicnTetJ_HUobz6nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>>>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>>>>> lawmaking process.
>>>>>
>>>>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>>>>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>>>>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
>>>> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>>>>
>>>> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
>>>> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
>>>> success!
>>>
>>> We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
>>> increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
>>> issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
>>> decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
>>> connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
>>> growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
>>> whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>>>>
>>>>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>>>>> of the country.
>>>>
>>>> Run for office and represent them.
>>>
>>> That would not fix the system.
>>>
>>>
>> then fire everyone and have no government
>
> My stuffed bear is going to take over.
>
if you do that someone will run against him

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:40:36 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <joicnTitJ_Gop7z6nZ2dnZfqn_oAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:24:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>> <oid2ij907fb1ukhq9c6ia2l6fuu3acr1iu@4ax.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But he saw my post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>>>>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>>>>>
>>>>> He has worked hard to lose.
>>>>
>>>> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.
>>>
>>> It clearly does.
>>>
>> skeeter is going to see this
>
> But not understand.
>
i think he'll know some of it

On Oct 29, 2024 at 1:13:01 PM MST, "%" wrote
<UKKcnQVms-tT3Lz6nZ2dnZfqnPoAAAAA@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:40:36 PM MST, "%" wrote
>> <joicnTitJ_Gop7z6nZ2dnZfqn_oAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:24:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <oid2ij907fb1ukhq9c6ia2l6fuu3acr1iu@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But he saw my post.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>>>>>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He has worked hard to lose.
>>>>>
>>>>> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.
>>>>
>>>> It clearly does.
>>>>
>>> skeeter is going to see this
>>
>> But not understand.
>>
> i think he'll know some of it

He will pretend to.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On Oct 29, 2024 at 1:12:27 PM MST, "%" wrote
<UKKcnQpms-sx3Lz6nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:49:29 PM MST, "%" wrote
>> <joicnTetJ_HUobz6nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>>>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>>>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>>>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>>>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>>>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>>>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>>>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>>>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>>>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>>>>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>>>>>> lawmaking process.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>>>>>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>>>>>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
>>>>> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>>>>>
>>>>> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
>>>>> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
>>>>> success!
>>>>
>>>> We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
>>>> increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
>>>> issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
>>>> decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
>>>> connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
>>>> growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
>>>> whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>>>>>> of the country.
>>>>>
>>>>> Run for office and represent them.
>>>>
>>>> That would not fix the system.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> then fire everyone and have no government
>>
>> My stuffed bear is going to take over.
>>
> if you do that someone will run against him

His legs are really short.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2024 at 1:12:27 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <UKKcnQpms-sx3Lz6nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:49:29 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>> <joicnTetJ_HUobz6nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>> <8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>>>>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>>>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>>>>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>>>>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>>>>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>>>>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>>>>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>>>>>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>>>>>>> lawmaking process.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>>>>>>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>>>>>>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
>>>>>> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
>>>>>> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
>>>>>> success!
>>>>>
>>>>> We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
>>>>> increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
>>>>> issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
>>>>> decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
>>>>> connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
>>>>> growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
>>>>> whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>>>>>>> of the country.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Run for office and represent them.
>>>>>
>>>>> That would not fix the system.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> then fire everyone and have no government
>>>
>>> My stuffed bear is going to take over.
>>>
>> if you do that someone will run against him
>
> His legs are really short.
>
most of them are like that

On Oct 29, 2024 at 2:11:25 PM MST, "%" wrote
<EpCdnU03iM3j0rz6nZ2dnZfqn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 1:12:27 PM MST, "%" wrote
>> <UKKcnQpms-sx3Lz6nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:49:29 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>>> <joicnTetJ_HUobz6nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:39:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>> <8ce2ijdu29kd2r793eitsauaf5vob75fp1@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:41:14 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 8:00:19?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>> <9fvthjl8mu9djqcakmrvb9ag4e20i7u6t9@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:52:53 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:15:11?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <6v4rhj1m1j521k9or1p5ddkv9f5bgf06pf@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:16:40 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we would be better off with more equal representation of people. We
>>>>>>>>>>>> are not gonna get it. That is really all my point was. I have backed it by
>>>>>>>>>>>> noting how polls show people, as a whole, want things I think would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> beneficial and make America better. Also have noted what I see as the
>>>>>>>>>>>> injustice of having those with the least representation tending to give the
>>>>>>>>>>>> most into the system, and those with far more representation getting the tons
>>>>>>>>>>>> of support from the system. I think it goes against the spirit of "No taxation
>>>>>>>>>>>> without representing". That is pretty much the extent of my views.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Governing by the poll-of-the-moment is guaranteed to screw things up.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can still have things to slow down the system. Having the minority dictate
>>>>>>>>>> to the majority is not an effective / fair way of doing so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Do a bit of reading back on legislation passed by the House that didn't get
>>>>>>>>>>> through the Senate. Very enlightening.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would love to see a list of such bills.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doing some quick research I find:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * For the People Act (H.R. 1) - 2021
>>>>>>>>>> * George Floyd Justice in Policing Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>>> * Equality Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>>> * Build Back Better Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>>> * Protecting the Right to Organize (PRO) Act - 2021
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pretty sure I -- and most of Americans -- would want each of these to pass
>>>>>>>>>> (though would need to do more research).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And ones passed by the Senate but rejected by the House:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act - 2018
>>>>>>>>>> * Keystone XL Pipeline Approval Act - 2015
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Happy those did not pass. But there were also these:
>>>>>>>>>> * Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (S. 744) - 2013
>>>>>>>>>> * NICS Denial Notification Act - 2019
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Might have been better if those had passed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So now you understand. Having two houses with different structures, one
>>>>>>>>> dynamic, the other deliberative, provides input and safety features to the
>>>>>>>>> lawmaking process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What did you think I was not understanding? I get it slows things down... but
>>>>>>>> I think it all too often ends up with results most of America does not want,
>>>>>>>> and things that benefit the rich over the general public.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I disagree. Attributed to Churchill: "The Americans will always do the right
>>>>>>> thing after they've exhausted all other possibilities."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The US is the richest, most powerful and most culturally influential
>>>>>>> civilization that has even existed in the whole of human existence. That's
>>>>>>> success!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We also have a lowering standard of living, a decreasing life expectancy,
>>>>>> increased economic inequality, increased political polarization, continued
>>>>>> issues with basic health care, poorly funded public eduction, infrastructure
>>>>>> decay, increase in mental health issues and substance abuse, reduced
>>>>>> connection between productivity and financial gain, etc. We have a lot of
>>>>>> growing issues and for many of them we can see that the American public as a
>>>>>> whole has decent ideas on how to handle these things.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Btw, you don't get to say what should and should not pass. ;)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I can use the standard of what is best for the country as judged by the people
>>>>>>>> of the country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Run for office and represent them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That would not fix the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> then fire everyone and have no government
>>>>
>>>> My stuffed bear is going to take over.
>>>>
>>> if you do that someone will run against him
>>
>> His legs are really short.
>>
> most of them are like that

Bearly able to keep up with others.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 10/29/24 3:24 PM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
>>
>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
>>>>>
>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
>>>>
>>>> But he saw my post.
>>>
>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
>>
>> He has worked hard to lose.
>
> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.
>

Certainly seems that way. It is ironic to see folks complain about high
costs who nevertheless then choose to vote against their own financial
interests by supporting the candidate who's promised to raise their
daily living costs *and* to raise their personal income taxes. Golly,
its almost as if their true motivation has nothing to do with their
personal finances but something else (eg, bigotry).

And for receipts:

Higher daily living costs = due to Tariffs, labor deportation.

FYI, the latter is being projected to at least double the price of milk,
as major shortages are expected because in some dairy states, their
local councils have estimated that 80% of their workforce are illegals.

Higher taxes = average of +$1200/year for incomes < $360K/year, which is
delineated as follows:

Income ---- taxes
$0 to $28.6K: +4.9%
$28.6-$55.1K: +3.6%
$55.1K-$94.1K: +2.5%
$94.1K-$157.5: +2.0%
$157.5-$360K: +0.8%

$360K-$914K: -1.2%
Above $914K: -1.4%

<https://itep.org/kamala-harris-donald-trump-tax-plans/>

-hh

In article <67213eb2$4$3068689$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
>
> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:40:36 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <joicnTitJ_Gop7z6nZ2dnZfqn_oAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>
> > Snit wrote:
> >> On Oct 29, 2024 at 12:24:38 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
> >> <oid2ij907fb1ukhq9c6ia2l6fuu3acr1iu@4ax.com>:
> >>
> >>> On 28 Oct 2024 03:47:02 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Oct 27, 2024 at 7:14:36?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
> >>>> <9rsthj14u46vm4poubr96d3rn5gpk3mknv@4ax.com>:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 27 Oct 2024 01:16:48 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 6:10:02?PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
> >>>>>> <fm4rhj9p7228g1anhf6onfg8fsv9i8puvh@4ax.com>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 26 Oct 2024 14:25:51 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 26, 2024 at 7:14:39?AM MST, "Skeeter" wrote
> >>>>>>>> <671cf94f$6$1895492$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> In article <671cf83a$1$2385542$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>,
> >>>>>>>>> brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com says...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Oct 25, 2024 at 10:23:42 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
> >>>>>>>>>> <06vohj1lg3ub79rsedmdo97cr3bp6h9aln@4ax.com>:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 06:38:57 -0600, Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> #nevertrump
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> People can pick Trump or America. You cannot have both.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You ignored this. Why?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Because he has me killfiled.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But he saw my post.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But it was something in quotes in your post so he wouldn't have responded.
> >>>>> Certainly he's not going to respond to me. He always loses.
> >>>>
> >>>> He has worked hard to lose.
> >>>
> >>> You'd think losing would come naturally to a luzer like Skeeter.
> >>
> >> It clearly does.
> >>
> > skeeter is going to see this
>
> But not understand.

I understand your frustration.