"‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years

MS is doomed.

DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:

>"‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>
> From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>
>
>MS is doomed.

Familiarity breeds conformity. If they are used to Excel, other stuff
doesn't enter their minds, just like Winblows as an OS, just like
anything we become content with, we don't adapt without putting our
minds to doing so. I have embraced change, and the things I've
discovered are mind-blowing, e.g. LO Calc.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>
> From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>
>
> MS is doomed.

Others will grow up with Calc...

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 10/28/2024 11:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>>
>>  From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>
>>
>> MS is doomed.
>
> Others will grow up with Calc...

I pity the fools...

On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 10/28/2024 11:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>>>
>>>  From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>>> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>
>>>
>>> MS is doomed.
>>
>> Others will grow up with Calc...
>
>
> I pity the fools...

People only think Excel is better if they're aware of its existence. My
students' lack of awareness seems to represent the greater society: they
don't know what they're using, they just know that it does spreadsheets.
If manufacturers were to bundle LibreOffice rather than Microsoft
Office, only a few would even notice that it's not the same thing.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 10/28/24 1:08 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>> On 10/28/2024 11:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>>>>
>>>>  From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>>>> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-
>>>> spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> MS is doomed.
>>>
>>> Others will grow up with Calc...
>>
>>
>> I pity the fools...
>
> People only think Excel is better if they're aware of its existence. My
> students' lack of awareness seems to represent the greater society: they
> don't know what they're using, they just know that it does spreadsheets.
> If manufacturers were to bundle LibreOffice rather than Microsoft
> Office, only a few would even notice that it's not the same thing.

That statement presumes that all product alternatives work well, and not
too particularly buggy. In reading your comment I was reminded of a
quite bad experience I had with Open Office (OO) a decade ago.

Here's the GG archive link:

<https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/XKYAl0HHMkQ/m/6C7lLDde8mEJ>

What I said back in November 2012:

[quote]
> >>> I have a contractor who is using OO. With a multi-million dollar
> >>> contract for but a dozen employees, one would think that they would
> >>> spring for at least one $500 license for the secretary to do their
> >>> presentations& reports, but the simple fact is that they didn't.
>
> >>> Their reports are utter disasters: data charts' scales changing
> >>> between what's on the screen vs. what's on the overhead projector, a
> >>> third (and horrific) print format, etc. I'll see if I can adequately
> >>> recuse a few pages to provide an example to post.
>
> >>> Their poor performance in their reporting in particular means that
> >>> they're not going to get their contract renewed. Congratulations
Open
> >>> Office!
>
> >> Pretty much proves the case : If you want a professional looking job
> >> you have to use professional tools.
>
> > It utterly proves the case for as far as I'm concerned. I've been
> > relatively indifferent in regards to the Office-vs-OO question until I
> > saw the nightmare that I'm having to deal with from this vendor.
>
> > And having two PhD's hasn't helped them.
>
> Which OO app are they using for reports?

No idea, as I haven't tried to look. It only became evident when I
noticed on their main project presentation that the scales on the
chart were off ... showing NEGATIVE gain on an amplifier was the
obvious clue.

Aborted the presentation and that's where I noticed that it wasn't an M
$ product ... they pulled up the spreadsheet and we confirmed that the
data had actually been correctly entered; created a new graph of the
data and found that the error was repeatable.

Perhaps the reason why they're overdue with getting the corrections
done is because they're continuing to bang their head against the wall
to try to make OO work, instead of just simply buying a damn copy of
MS-Office. Hell, it is a tax-deductible business expense too.

-hh

[/quote]

TL;DR ... their contract was later terminated on performance.

After doing a bit of sleuthing, it seems they're probably still mostly
in business. Not too much info, but they do appear to be offering a
product that's mostly what we were paying for them to develop, although
its power output is vastly lower. I also noticed mention of another
product that I can recall being shown 12 years ago, which suggests a
pretty slow R&D product development turnover rate.

-hh

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:

> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years

I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?

Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>
>I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
>media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>
>Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?

What is with you? Do you really think The Guardian is in the business
of giving two flying fucks, about the commercial vs. open source wars?
It's just an article they published for the fuck of it, it's hardly
their core work.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 10/28/2024 8:07 PM, Larry Duh Lacks Comprehension:

> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>
> I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
> media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>
> Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?

"readers"

You get more and more lame every week.

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 20:51:58 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>
>> I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal media
>> like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>>
>>Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?
>
> It's just an article they published for the fuck of it, it's hardly
> their core work.

Of course. So naturally they will take more effort to ensure it is
factual than their “core” work?

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:

> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history

I sure as hell didn't grow up with it...

On 10/28/2024 10:39 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history
>
> I sure as hell didn't grow up with it...

You're ancient.

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:53:17 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:07:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>
>> I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
>> media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>>
>> Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?
>
> "readers"

Believable, sober, credible readers? Not credulous dupes of Liberal
media? Assuming this publication isn’t lying about what its readers
say in the first place?

Is that really what you believe?

On 10/28/2024 10:48 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:53:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:07:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>
>>> I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
>>> media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>>>
>>> Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?
>>
>> "readers"
>
> Believable, sober, credible readers? Not credulous dupes of Liberal
> media? Assuming this publication isn’t lying about what its readers
> say in the first place?
>
> Is that really what you believe?

You're rapidly becoming insufferable.

No woman? No money?

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 22:44:39 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 10/28/2024 10:39 PM, rbowman wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft
>>> Excel
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history
>>
>> I sure as hell didn't grow up with it...
>
>
> You're ancient.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/205430687-star-scrapper

I've been reading the series. The AI is 200 years old and keeps making
cultural references that go right over spears' head. The AI recommends old
movies to catch him up.

I don't know the exact age demographics but I don't think you need to be
200 to confuse Gen X, Y, and Z.

On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 23:11:20 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 10/28/2024 10:48 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:53:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:07:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>>
>>>> I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
>>>> media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>>>>
>>>> Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?
>>>
>>> "readers"
>>
>> Believable, sober, credible readers? Not credulous dupes of Liberal
>> media? Assuming this publication isn’t lying about what its readers say
>> in the first place?
>>
>> Is that really what you believe?

Do your MAGA friends know you’re quoting The Guardian as a reputable
information source?

If they did, they would never let you live it down!

On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>>
>> From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>
>>
>> MS is doomed.
>
> Others will grow up with Calc...

The would have better off using dBASE.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>> On 10/28/2024 11:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>>>>
>>>>  From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>>>> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>>>>
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> MS is doomed.
>>>
>>> Others will grow up with Calc...
>>
>>
>> I pity the fools...
>
> People only think Excel is better if they're aware of its existence. My
> students' lack of awareness seems to represent the greater society: they
> don't know what they're using, they just know that it does spreadsheets.
> If manufacturers were to bundle LibreOffice rather than Microsoft
> Office, only a few would even notice that it's not the same thing.

In the mid-2000s a regional print shop I worked for moved from Microsoft
Office to OpenOffice (LibreOffice wasn't around yet). My main use for Excel
was taking crappy (poorly designed and updated) address spreadsheets and
converting them to usable dBASE databases for our address correction
software and our address labeling machine.

There was almost no difference between using Excel vs Calc even back then.
But why anyone would use a spreadsheet for a job better suited to a database
is still a mystery to me.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-29, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history
>
> I sure as hell didn't grow up with it...

Me either. What little I did in spreadsheets at home was done in Quatro Pro.
(Only used Excel when I was forced to at work.)

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

-hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> <snip>
>
> That statement presumes that all product alternatives work well, and not
> too particularly buggy. In reading your comment I was reminded of a
> quite bad experience I had with Open Office (OO) a decade ago.
>
> Here's the GG archive link:
>
> <https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.linux.advocacy/c/XKYAl0HHMkQ/m/6C7lLDde8mEJ>

A lotta people jumped ship from OpenOffice once Oracle got ahold of it.

Now:

In 2011, Oracle Corporation, the then-owner of Sun, announced that it would
no longer offer a commercial version of the suite and donated the project
to the Apache Foundation. Apache renamed the software Apache OpenOffice.

The same with Hudson:

Eventually Oracle donated the remaining Hudson project assets to the
Eclipse Foundation at the end of 2012. Having been replaced by Jenkins,
Hudson is no longer maintained and was announced as obsolete in February
2017.

--
No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of
absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream.
Hill House, not sane, stood by itself against its hills, holding darkness
within; it had stood so for eighty years and might stand for eighty more.
Within, walls continued upright, bricks met neatly, floors were firm, and
doors were sensibly shut; silence lay steadily against the wood and stone
of Hill House, and whatever walked there, walked alone.
-- Shirley Jackson, "The Haunting of Hill House"

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history
>
> I sure as hell didn't grow up with it...

I remember Lotus 1-2-3 and VisiCalc. Then the Microsoft copycats came along.

Microsoft originally marketed a spreadsheet program called Multiplan in
1982. Multiplan became very popular on CP/M systems, but on MS-DOS systems
it lost popularity to Lotus 1-2-3. Microsoft released the first version of
Excel for the Macintosh on September 30, 1985, and the first Windows
version was 2.05 (to synchronize with the Macintosh version 2.2) on
November 19, 1987. Lotus was slow to bring 1-2-3 to Windows and
by the early 1990s, Excel had started to outsell 1-2-3 and helped Microsoft
achieve its position as a leading PC software developer. This
accomplishment solidified Microsoft as a valid competitor and showed its
future in developing GUI software. Microsoft maintained its advantage with
regular new releases, every two years or so.

--
No, I'm not interested in developing a powerful brain. All I'm after is
just a mediocre brain, something like the president of American Telephone
and Telegraph Company.
-- Alan Turing on the possibilities of a thinking machine, 1943.

On 2024-10-28 10:39 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Excel#Early_history
>
> I sure as hell didn't grow up with it...

My first experience with a word processor or a spreadsheet program was
with Microsoft Works 2.0 which came with my IBM PS/1 in 1991. I barely
used either but they were nice to have.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 2024-10-28 11:11 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 10/28/2024 10:48 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 21:53:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 00:07:18 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 10:24:46 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>>
>>>> I thought you people believed that the media, particularly Liberal
>>>> media like The Guardian, were a bunch of liars?
>>>>
>>>> Or are they suddenly credible when they say something you believe in?
>>>
>>> "readers"
>>
>> Believable, sober, credible readers? Not credulous dupes of Liberal
>> media? Assuming this publication isn’t lying about what its readers
>> say in the first place?
>>
>> Is that really what you believe?
>
>
> You're rapidly becoming insufferable.
>
> No woman?  No money?

You're looking for intellect in a member of the stupid club.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On 2024-10-29 3:24 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-28, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-28 12:48 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>> On 10/28/2024 11:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-28 10:24 a.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>> "‘I grew up with it’: readers on the enduring appeal of Microsoft Excel
>>>>>
>>>>>  From baby names to wedding planning, fans of the 40-year-old
>>>>> spreadsheet program reveal how it has transformed their lives"
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/oct/28/microsoft-excel-spreadsheet-program-40-years
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> MS is doomed.
>>>>
>>>> Others will grow up with Calc...
>>>
>>>
>>> I pity the fools...
>>
>> People only think Excel is better if they're aware of its existence. My
>> students' lack of awareness seems to represent the greater society: they
>> don't know what they're using, they just know that it does spreadsheets.
>> If manufacturers were to bundle LibreOffice rather than Microsoft
>> Office, only a few would even notice that it's not the same thing.
>
> In the mid-2000s a regional print shop I worked for moved from Microsoft
> Office to OpenOffice (LibreOffice wasn't around yet). My main use for Excel
> was taking crappy (poorly designed and updated) address spreadsheets and
> converting them to usable dBASE databases for our address correction
> software and our address labeling machine.
>
> There was almost no difference between using Excel vs Calc even back then.
> But why anyone would use a spreadsheet for a job better suited to a database
> is still a mystery to me.

Because Microsoft's is prettier, apparently. I don't mind either, but I
don't see the drawbacks of LibreOffice. When my Microsoft Office 2021
license starts feeling old, I'll just move back over to LibreOffice or
use the 365 license my workplace offers me for free.

--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.

On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 09:11:33 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:

> My first experience with a word processor or a spreadsheet program was
> with Microsoft Works 2.0 which came with my IBM PS/1 in 1991. I barely
> used either but they were nice to have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1

The 1981 Osborne 1 came with Wordstar and SuperCalc. Wordstar wasn't the
greatest programming editor but it worked. I never used SuperCalc. It dod
have vi but vi wasn't the greatest editor. Vim was 10 years in the future.
I can't remember if mine had dBase II.

At the time when I went to a client's site they might have anything from a
Commodore PET to a PDP-11 timeshare with a grab bag of editors, compilers,
and assemblers. With the 'portable' Osborne I could bring my environment
with me.

Later I bought a couple of the infamous Osborne Executives that the Boston
Globe was selling as they moved to PCs. They were a business school lesson
in not announcing next generation vaporware that kills your current sales.