https://www.yahoo.com/tech/first-copilot-pc-tested-destroys-135658453.html

I find this very pertinent, because it shows that there really is a
potential to, quickly, supplant IntelAMD CPUs. Not that the two
architectures won't coexist for a while, of course, but new hardware
could overwhelmingly go ARM, before long. Then again, Intel and/or
AMD could have something up their sleeve, for all I know, but it's
nevertheless clear that Microsoft knows they can't compete on certain
things with Apple's chips, without adopting the new architecture
themselves, and the OEMs could follow the example.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 23 May 2024 21:30:43 -0400, Joel wrote:

> I find this very pertinent, because it shows that there really is a
> potential to, quickly, supplant IntelAMD CPUs. Not that the two
> architectures won't coexist for a while, of course, but new hardware
> could overwhelmingly go ARM, before long. Then again, Intel and/or AMD
> could have something up their sleeve, for all I know, but it's
> nevertheless clear that Microsoft knows they can't compete on certain
> things with Apple's chips, without adopting the new architecture
> themselves, and the OEMs could follow the example.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/one-difference-with-this-wave-of-
arm-pcs-all-the-big-pc-makers-are-actually-on-board/

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-arm-team-up-
power-startups.html

https://siliconangle.com/2023/10/23/nvidia-amd-reportedly-developing-arm-
based-pc-processors/

Intel and AMD haven't been snoozing. AMD's Opteron series from about 8
years ago was ARM based but it never went anywhere. Build the software and
they will come. It didn't work for RT but with both Windows ARM and Linux
ARM versions they smell blood.

It will also get a bit confusing. Arm.com, the company, currently has
Cortex-A, Cortex-M, Cortex-R, and Cortex-X. A is general purpose, with X
following A although they are vague. R is realtime and is very
specialized. M is the microcontroller line that I'm playing with on the
Pico W. Apple was free to call their processors anything they want but an
Apple M4 is definitely not a Cortex-M4.

The x86 family started as an interim band-aid on an 8080 but IBM yada-yada
and the rest is history. It's been hard at work for over 40 years; maybe
it's time for retirement.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> I find this very pertinent, because it shows that there really is a
>> potential to, quickly, supplant IntelAMD CPUs. Not that the two
>> architectures won't coexist for a while, of course, but new hardware
>> could overwhelmingly go ARM, before long. Then again, Intel and/or AMD
>> could have something up their sleeve, for all I know, but it's
>> nevertheless clear that Microsoft knows they can't compete on certain
>> things with Apple's chips, without adopting the new architecture
>> themselves, and the OEMs could follow the example.
>
>https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/one-difference-with-this-wave-of-
>arm-pcs-all-the-big-pc-makers-are-actually-on-board/
>
>https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-arm-team-up-
>power-startups.html
>
>https://siliconangle.com/2023/10/23/nvidia-amd-reportedly-developing-arm-
>based-pc-processors/
>
>Intel and AMD haven't been snoozing. AMD's Opteron series from about 8
>years ago was ARM based but it never went anywhere. Build the software and
>they will come. It didn't work for RT but with both Windows ARM and Linux
>ARM versions they smell blood.
>
>It will also get a bit confusing. Arm.com, the company, currently has
>Cortex-A, Cortex-M, Cortex-R, and Cortex-X. A is general purpose, with X
>following A although they are vague. R is realtime and is very
>specialized. M is the microcontroller line that I'm playing with on the
>Pico W. Apple was free to call their processors anything they want but an
>Apple M4 is definitely not a Cortex-M4.
>
>The x86 family started as an interim band-aid on an 8080 but IBM yada-yada
>and the rest is history. It's been hard at work for over 40 years; maybe
>it's time for retirement.

It's interesting in that my Intel CPU computer would suddenly be aged
prematurely, but I feel sure the OSes will continue supporting it long
enough. I'd love to have an ARM system, but even at three years old,
this box still seems pretty new to me. Little reason to contemplate a
big change, even if I could afford it.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-23 10:57 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 23 May 2024 21:30:43 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> I find this very pertinent, because it shows that there really is a
>> potential to, quickly, supplant IntelAMD CPUs. Not that the two
>> architectures won't coexist for a while, of course, but new hardware
>> could overwhelmingly go ARM, before long. Then again, Intel and/or AMD
>> could have something up their sleeve, for all I know, but it's
>> nevertheless clear that Microsoft knows they can't compete on certain
>> things with Apple's chips, without adopting the new architecture
>> themselves, and the OEMs could follow the example.
>
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/one-difference-with-this-wave-of-
> arm-pcs-all-the-big-pc-makers-are-actually-on-board/
>
> https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/intel-arm-team-up-
> power-startups.html
>
> https://siliconangle.com/2023/10/23/nvidia-amd-reportedly-developing-arm-
> based-pc-processors/
>
> Intel and AMD haven't been snoozing. AMD's Opteron series from about 8
> years ago was ARM based but it never went anywhere. Build the software and
> they will come. It didn't work for RT but with both Windows ARM and Linux
> ARM versions they smell blood.
>
> It will also get a bit confusing. Arm.com, the company, currently has
> Cortex-A, Cortex-M, Cortex-R, and Cortex-X. A is general purpose, with X
> following A although they are vague. R is realtime and is very
> specialized. M is the microcontroller line that I'm playing with on the
> Pico W. Apple was free to call their processors anything they want but an
> Apple M4 is definitely not a Cortex-M4.
>
> The x86 family started as an interim band-aid on an 8080 but IBM yada-yada
> and the rest is history. It's been hard at work for over 40 years; maybe
> it's time for retirement.

As an end-user, it should be the same to me. However, even I think that
x86-64 needs to go. Considering how far they are able to go with ARM in
terms of extending battery life, cutting power consumption and removing
the need for cooling, it only makes sense. It should especially be of
interest to hippies if they are truly concerned about society's general
energy usage.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On May 23, 2024 at 9:30:43 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/first-copilot-pc-tested-destroys-135658453.html

Oh look. Yet ANOTHER invalid comparison.

The MacBook Air they used for this very contrived test has an 8 core M3. The
actual low-end version. Of COURSE the Qualcomm X elite is faster, it has a 12
core CPU.

Why don't they test against a 12 core M3 MacBook Pro? Or a 14 core model? Or a
16 core model?

Not to mention that the M3 is last year's chip from Apple. The M4 Macbooks
will be available soon.

Apple has nothing to worry about, and Microsoft just appears to be very
desperate by publishing these meaningless stories. "The report was compiled by
Ryan Shrout, an ex-Intel employee who’s now a part of Signal65, and it was
commissioned by Microsoft."

On 2024-05-24 9:02 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
> On May 23, 2024 at 9:30:43 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/first-copilot-pc-tested-destroys-135658453.html
>
> Oh look. Yet ANOTHER invalid comparison.
>
> The MacBook Air they used for this very contrived test has an 8 core M3. The
> actual low-end version. Of COURSE the Qualcomm X elite is faster, it has a 12
> core CPU.
>
> Why don't they test against a 12 core M3 MacBook Pro? Or a 14 core model? Or a
> 16 core model?
>
> Not to mention that the M3 is last year's chip from Apple. The M4 Macbooks
> will be available soon.
>
> Apple has nothing to worry about, and Microsoft just appears to be very
> desperate by publishing these meaningless stories. "The report was compiled by
> Ryan Shrout, an ex-Intel employee who’s now a part of Signal65, and it was
> commissioned by Microsoft."

I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
same price from the competition.

I notice they're not looking at battery consumption yet. That's what
will be the most interesting to me.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>> https://www.yahoo.com/tech/first-copilot-pc-tested-destroys-135658453.html
>
>Oh look. Yet ANOTHER invalid comparison.
>
>The MacBook Air they used for this very contrived test has an 8 core M3. The
>actual low-end version. Of COURSE the Qualcomm X elite is faster, it has a 12
>core CPU.
>
>Why don't they test against a 12 core M3 MacBook Pro? Or a 14 core model? Or a
>16 core model?
>
>Not to mention that the M3 is last year's chip from Apple. The M4 Macbooks
>will be available soon.
>
>Apple has nothing to worry about, and Microsoft just appears to be very
>desperate by publishing these meaningless stories. "The report was compiled by
>Ryan Shrout, an ex-Intel employee who’s now a part of Signal65, and it was
>commissioned by Microsoft."

I will concede you likely know this better than I would have,
nevertheless, it shows where this is heading. M$ is nothing if not
open to change.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On May 24, 2024 at 12:17:14 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> I will concede you likely know this better than I would have,
> nevertheless, it shows where this is heading. M$ is nothing if not
> open to change.

And open to outright lying. "Destroys the MacBook" is actually "Destroys last
year's low-end MacBook Air".

Whoopee.

On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31 AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
> of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
> price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
> same price from the competition.

If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about. Macs
have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now 20% of the
market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was 4% Macs and 95%
Windows.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31?AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
>> of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
>> price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
>> same price from the competition.
>
>If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about. Macs
>have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now 20% of the
>market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was 4% Macs and 95%
>Windows.

I think the gains Apple has made in the desktop/laptop market are what
we've always wanted to see Linux do, but it can't because normal
people barely know what it is. macOS, though, is commercial, and
sleeker than Winbloat, so it offers an alternative people are aware
of. I would never again buy a Mac, but I like that they offer
something to drive M$ toward a better paradigm, competition works.
Linux remains my style, as a computer nerd, but macOS offers a
similarly functional OS for more mainstream people.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-24 12:33 p.m., Tyrone wrote:
> On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31 AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
>> of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
>> price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
>> same price from the competition.
>
> If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about. Macs
> have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now 20% of the
> market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was 4% Macs and 95%
> Windows.

Having had a recent Mac for a while, I will be the first to admit that
the experience using their laptop is stellar, and even better if you own
other Apple hardware. It has power, battery life, excellent transitions
from iPhone to Mac and back depending on what it detects you are doing,
and so on. MacOS also doesn't bother you, is relatively stable, it's
quiet, and seems to respect your privacy a lot more than Microsoft does.
If I didn't already have so much invested in the Windows environment, I
would happily transition to the Mac.

You can't upgrade your hardware in any way and it is unnecessarily
difficult to repair, but if you don't mind that, it's excellent.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On May 24, 2024 at 12:47:14 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>> On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31?AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
>>> of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
>>> price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
>>> same price from the competition.
>>
>> If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about. Macs
>> have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now 20% of the
>> market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was 4% Macs and 95%
>> Windows.
>
>
> I think the gains Apple has made in the desktop/laptop market are what
> we've always wanted to see Linux do, but it can't because normal
> people barely know what it is. macOS, though, is commercial, and
> sleeker than Winbloat, so it offers an alternative people are aware
> of. I would never again buy a Mac, but I like that they offer
> something to drive M$ toward a better paradigm, competition works.
> Linux remains my style, as a computer nerd, but macOS offers a
> similarly functional OS for more mainstream people.

Normal people don't even know what an "Operating System" is. Nor do they
want/need to know. All they know is Apple laptops look different from
Dell/Lenovo/HP/whoever laptops.

The only thing that prevents Linux from becoming useful for mainstream users
is that the people writing it are not really interested in doing that. Linux
is written by computer geeks for computer geeks. Thus it appeals to a small
subset of computer users. Nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.

It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use with
lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on computers.

Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same idea.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>On May 24, 2024 at 12:47:14?PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>> On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31?AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
>>>> of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
>>>> price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
>>>> same price from the competition.
>>>
>>> If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about. Macs
>>> have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now 20% of the
>>> market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was 4% Macs and 95%
>>> Windows.
>>
>> I think the gains Apple has made in the desktop/laptop market are what
>> we've always wanted to see Linux do, but it can't because normal
>> people barely know what it is. macOS, though, is commercial, and
>> sleeker than Winbloat, so it offers an alternative people are aware
>> of. I would never again buy a Mac, but I like that they offer
>> something to drive M$ toward a better paradigm, competition works.
>> Linux remains my style, as a computer nerd, but macOS offers a
>> similarly functional OS for more mainstream people.
>
>Normal people don't even know what an "Operating System" is. Nor do they
>want/need to know. All they know is Apple laptops look different from
>Dell/Lenovo/HP/whoever laptops.
>
>The only thing that prevents Linux from becoming useful for mainstream users
>is that the people writing it are not really interested in doing that. Linux
>is written by computer geeks for computer geeks. Thus it appeals to a small
>subset of computer users. Nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.
>
>It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use with
>lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on computers.
>
>Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same idea.

I pretty much agree. Apple offers one a commercial Unix-based
platform, Microsoft simply doesn't have the sleekness of that. WSL 2
isn't the answer, either. For a typical person, wanting a device to
perform, in an environment that is functional like Linux, but "easy to
use", macOS is a fairly strong competitor.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Thu, 23 May 2024 23:32:49 -0400, Joel wrote:

> It's interesting in that my Intel CPU computer would suddenly be aged
> prematurely, but I feel sure the OSes will continue supporting it long
> enough. I'd love to have an ARM system, but even at three years old,
> this box still seems pretty new to me. Little reason to contemplate a
> big change, even if I could afford it.

My two newest systems are AMD Ryzen 7s, one Windows 11 and the other
Ubuntu. I don't see upgrades in my future for GP purposes. However if I
get involved with another project the Raspberry Pi 5 with the quad core
Cortex A76 is interesting. There are quite a few kit options for around
$160 USD with a case, active cooling, cables, microSD card and a wallwart
power supply.

According to the reviews it's a lot faster than the 4 but isn't quite up
to replacing a desktop system. I wonder if I can chain KVMs?

On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
> On May 24, 2024 at 12:47:14 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>> On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31?AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same number
>>>> of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is that at the
>>>> price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is available at the
>>>> same price from the competition.
>>>
>>> If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about. Macs
>>> have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now 20% of the
>>> market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was 4% Macs and 95%
>>> Windows.
>>
>>
>> I think the gains Apple has made in the desktop/laptop market are what
>> we've always wanted to see Linux do, but it can't because normal
>> people barely know what it is. macOS, though, is commercial, and
>> sleeker than Winbloat, so it offers an alternative people are aware
>> of. I would never again buy a Mac, but I like that they offer
>> something to drive M$ toward a better paradigm, competition works.
>> Linux remains my style, as a computer nerd, but macOS offers a
>> similarly functional OS for more mainstream people.
>
> Normal people don't even know what an "Operating System" is. Nor do they
> want/need to know. All they know is Apple laptops look different from
> Dell/Lenovo/HP/whoever laptops.
>
> The only thing that prevents Linux from becoming useful for mainstream users
> is that the people writing it are not really interested in doing that. Linux
> is written by computer geeks for computer geeks. Thus it appeals to a small
> subset of computer users. Nothing wrong with that. It is what it is.
>
> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use with
> lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on computers.
>
> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same idea.
Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.

--
Simon

RLU: 222126

On 2024-05-24, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
<snip>
>
> As an end-user, it should be the same to me. However, even I think that
> x86-64 needs to go. Considering how far they are able to go with ARM in
> terms of extending battery life, cutting power consumption and removing
> the need for cooling, it only makes sense. It should especially be of
> interest to hippies if they are truly concerned about society's general
> energy usage.

Why not have both? I like choice.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-24, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
> Having had a recent Mac for a while, I will be the first to admit that
> the experience using their laptop is stellar, and even better if you own
> other Apple hardware. It has power, battery life, excellent transitions
> from iPhone to Mac and back depending on what it detects you are doing,
> and so on. MacOS also doesn't bother you, is relatively stable, it's
> quiet, and seems to respect your privacy a lot more than Microsoft does.
> If I didn't already have so much invested in the Windows environment, I
> would happily transition to the Mac.

So you've gotten rid of the Mac now? That was quick.

The integration between smartphones and computers is apparently important to
a lot of people. I use my smartphone so rarely that it doesn't really matter
to me. I mostly use phones for talking and my flip phone does a great job
for that.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:

> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
>> On May 24, 2024 at 12:47:14 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>> On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31?AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch"
>>>> <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same
>>>>> number of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is
>>>>> that at the price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is
>>>>> available at the same price from the competition.
>>>>
>>>> If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about.
>>>> Macs have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now
>>>> 20% of the market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was
>>>> 4% Macs and 95% Windows.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the gains Apple has made in the desktop/laptop market are what
>>> we've always wanted to see Linux do, but it can't because normal
>>> people barely know what it is. macOS, though, is commercial, and
>>> sleeker than Winbloat, so it offers an alternative people are aware
>>> of. I would never again buy a Mac, but I like that they offer
>>> something to drive M$ toward a better paradigm, competition works.
>>> Linux remains my style, as a computer nerd, but macOS offers a
>>> similarly functional OS for more mainstream people.
>>
>> Normal people don't even know what an "Operating System" is. Nor do
>> they want/need to know. All they know is Apple laptops look different
>> from Dell/Lenovo/HP/whoever laptops.
>>
>> The only thing that prevents Linux from becoming useful for mainstream
>> users is that the people writing it are not really interested in doing
>> that. Linux is written by computer geeks for computer geeks. Thus it
>> appeals to a small subset of computer users. Nothing wrong with that.
>> It is what it is.
>>
>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>> computers.
>>
>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>> idea.
> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.

So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".

--
-v

On May 24, 2024 at 9:07:34 PM EDT, "vallor" <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 24 May 2024 18:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Simon <SimonJ@eu.invalid> wrote
> in <slrnv51oq3.ckoc.SimonJ@silex.localdomain>:
>
>> On 2024-05-24, Tyrone wrote:
>>> On May 24, 2024 at 12:47:14 PM EDT, "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
>>>>> On May 24, 2024 at 10:03:31?AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch"
>>>>> <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that they should have compared processors with the same
>>>>>> number of cores. However, the point these reviewers want to make is
>>>>>> that at the price it will cost, the Snapdragon will beat what is
>>>>>> available at the same price from the competition.
>>>>>
>>>>> If that's all they have then again, Apple has nothing to worry about.
>>>>> Macs have always been "overpriced and underpowered", yet Macs are now
>>>>> 20% of the market and Windows is down to 70%. I remember when it was
>>>>> 4% Macs and 95% Windows.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think the gains Apple has made in the desktop/laptop market are what
>>>> we've always wanted to see Linux do, but it can't because normal
>>>> people barely know what it is. macOS, though, is commercial, and
>>>> sleeker than Winbloat, so it offers an alternative people are aware
>>>> of. I would never again buy a Mac, but I like that they offer
>>>> something to drive M$ toward a better paradigm, competition works.
>>>> Linux remains my style, as a computer nerd, but macOS offers a
>>>> similarly functional OS for more mainstream people.
>>>
>>> Normal people don't even know what an "Operating System" is. Nor do
>>> they want/need to know. All they know is Apple laptops look different
>>> from Dell/Lenovo/HP/whoever laptops.
>>>
>>> The only thing that prevents Linux from becoming useful for mainstream
>>> users is that the people writing it are not really interested in doing
>>> that. Linux is written by computer geeks for computer geeks. Thus it
>>> appeals to a small subset of computer users. Nothing wrong with that.
>>> It is what it is.
>>>
>>> It would take a company to take Linux, make it pretty AND easy to use
>>> with lots of standard apps AND well supported AND pre-installed on
>>> computers.
>>>
>>> Nevermind, Apple already did that. But they used Unix instead. Same
>>> idea.
>> Valve and the Steamdeck are doing it too.
>
> So did Google. It's called "ChromeOS".

Yes. But Apple did it first.

On May 24, 2024 at 1:04:08 PM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:

> Having had a recent Mac for a while, I will be the first to admit that
> the experience using their laptop is stellar, and even better if you own
> other Apple hardware. It has power, battery life, excellent transitions
> from iPhone to Mac and back depending on what it detects you are doing,
> and so on. MacOS also doesn't bother you, is relatively stable, it's
> quiet, and seems to respect your privacy a lot more than Microsoft does.
> If I didn't already have so much invested in the Windows environment, I
> would happily transition to the Mac.

I had 33 years of investment in Windows. I started with 3.0 in 1990.

10 was the first version of Windows that did not interest me. 11 was what
drove me to a Mac full time. But I have had a Mac Mini for many years, just to
"keep up" with Macs. It still works fine, even though it is an ancient 2014
model with an Intel I5 and 8 GB RAM. But it does have a 512GB SSD, which
really makes it useable today.

The integration between Macs, iPhones and iPads is fantastic. In large part
due to the fact that they all run the same OS and apps. Having Win 11 Pro in a
VM on a MacBook Pro means I have 2 laptops in one. It also means that the MS
"AI" junk in Win 11 isn't going to bother me.

Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:

>I had 33 years of investment in Windows. I started with 3.0 in 1990.
>
>10 was the first version of Windows that did not interest me. 11 was what
>drove me to a Mac full time. But I have had a Mac Mini for many years, just to
>"keep up" with Macs. It still works fine, even though it is an ancient 2014
>model with an Intel I5 and 8 GB RAM. But it does have a 512GB SSD, which
>really makes it useable today.
>
>The integration between Macs, iPhones and iPads is fantastic. In large part
>due to the fact that they all run the same OS and apps. Having Win 11 Pro in a
>VM on a MacBook Pro means I have 2 laptops in one. It also means that the MS
>"AI" junk in Win 11 isn't going to bother me.

I can understand the appeal of that, for sure, having all of that on a
MacBook Pro, it's something I thought of in the abstract (I don't
really want a laptop). As a desktop enthusiast, Linux is really the
king, because Wine gives me enough compatibility with Winblows stuff
(e.g. what I'm using to write this, Forte Agent). But everyone's got
their own priorities and needs.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-24 8:00 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-24, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> As an end-user, it should be the same to me. However, even I think that
>> x86-64 needs to go. Considering how far they are able to go with ARM in
>> terms of extending battery life, cutting power consumption and removing
>> the need for cooling, it only makes sense. It should especially be of
>> interest to hippies if they are truly concerned about society's general
>> energy usage.
>
> Why not have both? I like choice.

You can have both, but the reality is that x86-64's problems are
becoming increasingly difficult to circumvent. Moving to ARM has nothing
but advantages.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-24 8:09 p.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-24, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>> Having had a recent Mac for a while, I will be the first to admit that
>> the experience using their laptop is stellar, and even better if you own
>> other Apple hardware. It has power, battery life, excellent transitions
>> from iPhone to Mac and back depending on what it detects you are doing,
>> and so on. MacOS also doesn't bother you, is relatively stable, it's
>> quiet, and seems to respect your privacy a lot more than Microsoft does.
>> If I didn't already have so much invested in the Windows environment, I
>> would happily transition to the Mac.
>
> So you've gotten rid of the Mac now? That was quick.

I kept it for less than a year, but I got rid of it because I'm not good
at having two of the same thing. I can't have two video game consoles,
two computers or two cars. Whenever I do, I wholly ignore one in favour
of the other. As I told my wife, I could never have two women in my life
either. It's just against my nature.

Its battery life was fantastic as was its resistance to battery wear. It
was fine for going from class to class to take attendance or to display
a page from the workbook or whatever. However, playing videos on it
through a hub often crashed the system (it might have been the fault of
the Anker hub, a cheap one I got for $40 or so, but I didn't care), and
that thing couldn't access my movies on Microsoft Films & TV. For me,
there were nothing but advantages to just use a Windows laptop.

> The integration between smartphones and computers is apparently important to
> a lot of people. I use my smartphone so rarely that it doesn't really matter
> to me. I mostly use phones for talking and my flip phone does a great job
> for that.

Seeing how addicted students in general have become to using cell
phones, I want to use mine as little as possible. Unfortunately, the
WiFi in my school is garbage, so I constantly have to use my phone's
data (which is fine because I get 100GB at full speed and unlimited slow
speeds). I also love to listen to podcasts, and the phone is great for
that. My wife also insists on being able to contact me through Telegram,
so I have no choice but to keep one.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>On 2024-05-24 8:00 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-24, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>> As an end-user, it should be the same to me. However, even I think that
>>> x86-64 needs to go. Considering how far they are able to go with ARM in
>>> terms of extending battery life, cutting power consumption and removing
>>> the need for cooling, it only makes sense. It should especially be of
>>> interest to hippies if they are truly concerned about society's general
>>> energy usage.
>>
>> Why not have both? I like choice.
>
>You can have both, but the reality is that x86-64's problems are
>becoming increasingly difficult to circumvent. Moving to ARM has nothing
>but advantages.

I would definitely want it, if it were building new, but I'm good with
IntelAMD for now, I designed my box to handle anything I'd throw at
it. The future will be different, but there's no urgency to adopt
that, today.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2024-05-25 12:21 a.m., Tyrone wrote:
> On May 24, 2024 at 1:04:08 PM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>
>> Having had a recent Mac for a while, I will be the first to admit that
>> the experience using their laptop is stellar, and even better if you own
>> other Apple hardware. It has power, battery life, excellent transitions
>> from iPhone to Mac and back depending on what it detects you are doing,
>> and so on. MacOS also doesn't bother you, is relatively stable, it's
>> quiet, and seems to respect your privacy a lot more than Microsoft does.
>> If I didn't already have so much invested in the Windows environment, I
>> would happily transition to the Mac.
>
> I had 33 years of investment in Windows. I started with 3.0 in 1990.
>
> 10 was the first version of Windows that did not interest me. 11 was what
> drove me to a Mac full time. But I have had a Mac Mini for many years, just to
> "keep up" with Macs. It still works fine, even though it is an ancient 2014
> model with an Intel I5 and 8 GB RAM. But it does have a 512GB SSD, which
> really makes it useable today.
>
> The integration between Macs, iPhones and iPads is fantastic. In large part
> due to the fact that they all run the same OS and apps. Having Win 11 Pro in a
> VM on a MacBook Pro means I have 2 laptops in one. It also means that the MS
> "AI" junk in Win 11 isn't going to bother me.

I often use some of the content I purchased in Microsoft Films & TV with
my students, so abandoning that would be very difficult and expensive. I
would have to buy all of those movies again on DVD, rip the DVD and then
store them on a hard disk. The benefit would be that I could share the
content with students who were absent, but that's about it. Because of
that, as well as the fact that my games run much better, I hold onto
Windows.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.