'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
Could Take Over the World.'

<https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>

'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
safety or they could endanger humanity.
“I think we’re at a kind of bifurcation point in history where, in the
next few years, we need to figure out if there’s a way to deal with that
threat,” Hinton said in an interview Tuesday with a Nobel Prize official
that mixed pride in his life’s work with warnings about the growing
danger it poses.
The 76-year-old Hinton resigned from Google last year in part so he
could talk more about the possibility that AI systems could escape human
control and influence elections or power dangerous robots. Along with
other experienced AI researchers, he has called on such companies as
OpenAI, Meta Platforms and Alphabet-owned Google to devote more
resources to the safety of the advanced systems that they are competing
against each other to develop as quickly as possible.
Hinton’s Nobel win has provided a new platform for his doomsday warnings
at the same time it celebrates his critical role in advancing the
technologies fueling them. Hinton has argued that advanced AI systems
are capable of understanding their outputs, a controversial view in
research circles.
“Hopefully, it will make me more credible when I say these things really
do understand what they’re saying,” he said of the prize.
Hinton’s views have pitted him against factions of the AI community that
believe dwelling on doomsday scenarios needlessly slows technological
progress or distracts from more immediate harms, such as discrimination
against minority groups.

The Stockholm announcement of John Hopfield and Geoffrey Hinton as this
year’s Nobel Prize winners in physics.
“I think that he’s a smart guy, but I think a lot of people have way
overhyped the risk of these things, and that’s really convinced a lot of
the general public that this is what we should be focusing on, not the
more immediate harms of AI,” said Melanie Mitchell, a professor at the
Santa Fe Institute, during a panel last year.
Hinton visited Google’s Silicon Valley headquarters Tuesday for an
informal celebration, and some of the company’s top AI executives
congratulated him on social media.
On Wednesday, other prominent Googlers specializing in AI were also
awarded a Nobel Prize. Demis Hassabis, chief executive of Google
DeepMind, and John M. Jumper, director at the AI lab, were part of a
group of three scientists who won the chemistry prize for their work on
predicting the shape of proteins.
Thinking like people
Hinton is sharing the Nobel Prize in physics with John Hopfield of
Princeton University for their work since the 1980s on neural networks
that process information in ways inspired by the human brain. That work
is the basis for many of the AI technologies in use today, from
ChatGPT’s humanlike conversations to Google Photos’ ability to recognize
who is in every picture you take.
“Their contributions to connect fundamental concepts in physics with
concepts in biology, not just AI—these concepts are still with us
today,” said Yoshua Bengio, an AI researcher at the University of
Montreal.

John Hopfield of Princeton University is sharing in the Nobel Prize for
physics.
In 2012, Hinton worked with two of his University of Toronto graduate
students, Alex Krizhevsky and Ilya Sutskever, on a neural network called
AlexNet programmed to recognize images in photos. Until that point,
computer algorithms had often been unable to tell that a picture of a
dog was really a dog and not a cat or a car.
AlexNet’s blowout victory at a 2012 contest for image-recognition
technology was a pivotal moment in the development of the modern AI
boom, as it proved the power of neural nets over other approaches.
That same year, Hinton started a company with Krizhevsky and Sutskever
that turned out to be short-lived. Google acquired it in 2013 in an
auction against competitors including Baidu and Microsoft, paying $44
million essentially to hire the three men, according to the book “Genius
Makers.” Hinton began splitting time between the University of Toronto
and Google, where he continued research on neural networks.
Hinton is widely revered as a mentor for the current generation of top
AI researchers including Sutskever, who co-founded OpenAI before leaving
this spring to start a company called Safe Superintelligence.
Hinton received the 2018 Turing Award, a computer-science prize, for his
work on neural networks alongside Bengio and a fellow AI researcher,
Yann LeCun. The three are often referred to as the modern “godfathers of
AI.”
Warnings of disaster
By 2023, Hinton had become alarmed about the consequences of building
more powerful artificial intelligence. He began talking about the
possibility that AI systems could escape the control of their creators
and cause catastrophic harm to humanity. In doing so, he aligned himself
with a vocal movement of people concerned about the existential risks of
the technology.
“We’re in a situation that most people can’t even conceive of, which is
that these digital intelligences are going to be a lot smarter than us,
and if they want to get stuff done, they’re going to want to take
control,” Hinton said in an interview last year.
Hinton announced he was leaving Google in spring 2023, saying he wanted
to be able to freely discuss the dangers of AI without worrying about
consequences for the company. Google had acted “very responsibly,” he
said in an X post.
In the subsequent months, Hinton has spent much of his time speaking to
policymakers and tech executives, including Elon Musk, about AI risks.
Hinton cosigned a paper last year saying companies doing AI work should
allocate at least one-third of their research and development resources
to ensuring the safety and ethical use of their systems.

Hinton has spent much of his recent time speaking of AI risks.
“One thing governments can do is force the big companies to spend a lot
more of their resources on safety research, so that for example
companies like OpenAI can’t just put safety research on the back
burner,” Hinton said in the Nobel interview.
An OpenAI spokeswoman said the company is proud of its safety work.
With Bengio and other researchers, Hinton supported an
artificial-intelligence safety bill passed by the California Legislature
this summer that would have required developers of large AI systems to
take a number of steps to ensure they can’t cause catastrophic damage.
Gov. Gavin Newsom recently vetoed the bill, which was opposed by most
big tech companies including Google.
Hinton’s increased activism has put him in opposition to other respected
researchers who believe his warnings are fantastical because AI is far
from having the capability to cause serious harm.

“Their complete lack of understanding of the physical world and lack of
planning abilities put them way below cat-level intelligence, never mind
human-level,” LeCun wrote in a response to Hinton on X last year.

> A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel.

Why did a person who made zero contributions to physics win
the Nobel Prize for physics?

John Smyth wrote:
> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
> Could Take Over the World.'
>
> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>
>
> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
> safety or they could endanger humanity.

i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.

both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.

spamnono wrote:
>> A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel.
>
> Why did a person who made zero contributions to physics win
> the Nobel Prize for physics?
>

i have to read more on that, there must be some reason? i was
also surprised by demmis wining chemistry and not medicine. a lot
of compsci people have won, which shows its relevance far beyond
the backend room.

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
On 2024-10-12, kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
> John Smyth wrote:
>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>
>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>
>>
>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>
>
> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>
> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.

I don't think AI will take over, as it is not really capable of
out-of-band thinking. AI cannot solve a problem which hasn't been
defined. For example, you can get AI to perhaps streamline a process or
design, make it more efficient, but it won't come to the realisation
that the thing you are trying to do, may not be necessary after all. So
AI would have to do something it is not capable of at the moment, coming
to new realisations and acting on that information.

The threat from AI I think is more how we act. I see a danger where we
trust AI, and treat it like it is a superintelligence, and we use it as
a crutch to make desicions, which turn out to be poor, suboptimal
decisions.

On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
<547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:

> John Smyth wrote:
>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>
>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>
>>
>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>
>
> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>
> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.

I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
things.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Borax Man wrote:
> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
> On 2024-10-12, kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
>> John Smyth wrote:
>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>
>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>
>>
>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>
>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>
> I don't think AI will take over, as it is not really capable of
> out-of-band thinking. AI cannot solve a problem which hasn't been
> defined. For example, you can get AI to perhaps streamline a process or
> design, make it more efficient, but it won't come to the realisation
> that the thing you are trying to do, may not be necessary after all. So
> AI would have to do something it is not capable of at the moment, coming
> to new realisations and acting on that information.
>
> The threat from AI I think is more how we act. I see a danger where we
> trust AI, and treat it like it is a superintelligence, and we use it as
> a crutch to make desicions, which turn out to be poor, suboptimal
> decisions.
>

current models may not be able to, but there is an exponential
curve we are riding.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>
>> John Smyth wrote:
>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>
>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>
>>
>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>
>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>
> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>
> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>
> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>
> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
> things.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>

i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
care.

there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.

On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
<efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>
>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>
>>>
>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>
>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>
>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>
>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>
>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>
>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>> things.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
> care.
>
> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.

True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
fear new tech more than younger folks.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>
>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>
>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>
>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>
>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>
>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>
>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>> things.
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>> care.
>>
>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>
> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>
kids don't care if they break it ,
old folks are sure they will

On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
<0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>
>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>
>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>
>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>> things.
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>> care.
>>>
>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>
>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>
> kids don't care if they break it ,
> old folks are sure they will

But then they don't.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
> John Smyth wrote:
>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>
>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>
>>
>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>
>
> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>
> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>

The biggest issue with "AI" is that the term is meaningless. It covers
simple artificial neural networks (ANNs) which is what the nobel prize has
recognised, but also deep learning, generative learning and fully conscious
agents.

It's like saying flying a rocket to the moon is the same as cycling to
work.

Some "AI" has issues, but most doesn't.

kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>
>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>
>>>
>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>
>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>
>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>
>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>
>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>
>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>> things.
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
> care.

Doubtful. Older people don't like tech. They trust people.

> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>
>
>

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>>
>>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>>> things.
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>>> care.
>>>>
>>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>>
>>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>>
>> kids don't care if they break it ,
>> old folks are sure they will
>
> But then they don't.
>
usually not

On Oct 12, 2024 at 3:24:11 PM MST, "%" wrote
<a6-cnVxdH7uQapf6nZ2dnZfqnPUAAAAA@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
>> <0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>
>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>>>> care.
>>>>>
>>>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>>>
>>>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>>>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>>>
>>> kids don't care if they break it ,
>>> old folks are sure they will
>>
>> But then they don't.
>>
> usually not

There are exceptions.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2024 at 3:24:11 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <a6-cnVxdH7uQapf6nZ2dnZfqnPUAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>> <0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>>>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>>>>> care.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>>>>
>>>>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>>>>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>>>>
>>>> kids don't care if they break it ,
>>>> old folks are sure they will
>>>
>>> But then they don't.
>>>
>> usually not
>
> There are exceptions.
>
there are drugged seniors

On Oct 12, 2024 at 6:49:32 PM MST, "%" wrote
<X9ydnfdAWoOyupb6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 3:24:11 PM MST, "%" wrote
>> <a6-cnVxdH7uQapf6nZ2dnZfqnPUAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>>> <0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>>>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>>>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>>>>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>>>>>> care.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>>>>>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>>>>>
>>>>> kids don't care if they break it ,
>>>>> old folks are sure they will
>>>>
>>>> But then they don't.
>>>>
>>> usually not
>>
>> There are exceptions.
>>
> there are drugged seniors

One would hope!

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

Snit wrote:
> On Oct 12, 2024 at 6:49:32 PM MST, "%" wrote
> <X9ydnfdAWoOyupb6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 3:24:11 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>> <a6-cnVxdH7uQapf6nZ2dnZfqnPUAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>>
>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>>>> <0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>>>>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>>>>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>>>>>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>>>>>>> care.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>>>>>>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> kids don't care if they break it ,
>>>>>> old folks are sure they will
>>>>>
>>>>> But then they don't.
>>>>>
>>>> usually not
>>>
>>> There are exceptions.
>>>
>> there are drugged seniors
>
> One would hope!
>
its true , i know a bunch of them

On Oct 12, 2024 at 7:26:47 PM MST, "%" wrote
<GySdnXYqeaR6spb6nZ2dnZfqn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com>:

> Snit wrote:
>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 6:49:32 PM MST, "%" wrote
>> <X9ydnfdAWoOyupb6nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@giganews.com>:
>>
>>> Snit wrote:
>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 3:24:11 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>>> <a6-cnVxdH7uQapf6nZ2dnZfqnPUAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 2:21:53 PM MST, "%" wrote
>>>>>> <0-icnZb77pbudZf6nZ2dnZfqnPEAAAAA@giganews.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 2024 at 1:51:30 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>>>> <efcc0d95-ad82-ac47-3449-949f9e0c7081@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Snit wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>>>>>>>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>>>>>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>>>>>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>>>>>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>>>>>>>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>>>>>>>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>>>>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>>>>>>>>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>>>>>>>>> care.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> True. And of course the "rules" are simplified... but in general older folks
>>>>>>>> fear new tech more than younger folks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kids don't care if they break it ,
>>>>>>> old folks are sure they will
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But then they don't.
>>>>>>
>>>>> usually not
>>>>
>>>> There are exceptions.
>>>>
>>> there are drugged seniors
>>
>> One would hope!
>>
> its true , i know a bunch of them

I know a bunch of bananas.

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

On 12/10/2024 23:12, Chris wrote:
> kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
>> Snit wrote:
>>> On Oct 11, 2024 at 9:41:56 PM MST, "kazu" wrote
>>> <547d7042-b50e-d5fd-51f6-e6aff7bbac7e@ichigo.kinoko.kuri>:
>>>
>>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>>
>>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>>
>>> I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>>>
>>> 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>>> is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>>>
>>> 2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>>> and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>>>
>>> 3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>>> things.
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>>
>> i think old people will like ai, it will be first deployed in
>> construction, heavy industry and call center sectors and elderly
>> care.
>
> Doubtful. Older people don't like tech. They trust people.

FALSE! 🙂

I just LOVE my 27inch iMac and all the things it can do!

I USED to trust people; now, not so much!

>> there is a huge elder care market growing each day across the world.

There is, without doubt, MUCH need for care services here in the UK.

On 2024-10-12, kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
> Borax Man wrote:
>> ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.os.linux.advocacy.]
>> On 2024-10-12, kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
>>> John Smyth wrote:
>>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>>
>>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>>
>>>
>>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>>
>>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>
>> I don't think AI will take over, as it is not really capable of
>> out-of-band thinking. AI cannot solve a problem which hasn't been
>> defined. For example, you can get AI to perhaps streamline a process or
>> design, make it more efficient, but it won't come to the realisation
>> that the thing you are trying to do, may not be necessary after all. So
>> AI would have to do something it is not capable of at the moment, coming
>> to new realisations and acting on that information.
>>
>> The threat from AI I think is more how we act. I see a danger where we
>> trust AI, and treat it like it is a superintelligence, and we use it as
>> a crutch to make desicions, which turn out to be poor, suboptimal
>> decisions.
>>
>
> current models may not be able to, but there is an exponential
> curve we are riding.

What we have seen is better models because they have more data. But
there is a leap to be made to get them to think out of band. This is a
very different type of program, and now where I think the A.I. path is
leading to at the moment.

Machines can't think, and programs can't think.

Chris wrote:
> kazu <f00@0f0.00f> wrote:
>> John Smyth wrote:
>>> 'A Godfather of AI Just Won a Nobel. He Has Been Warning the Machines
>>> Could Take Over the World.'
>>>
>>> <https://archive.is/VuJ4L#selection-2403.0-2597.172>
>>>
>>>
>>> 'The newly minted Nobel laureate Geoffrey Hinton has a message about the
>>> artificial-intelligence systems he helped create: get more serious about
>>> safety or they could endanger humanity.
>>
>>
>> i am 50-50 on the view that AI will pose a danger to humanity.
>>
>> both sides have decent arguments and i cant make up my mind.
>>
>
> The biggest issue with "AI" is that the term is meaningless. It covers
> simple artificial neural networks (ANNs) which is what the nobel prize has
> recognised, but also deep learning, generative learning and fully conscious
> agents.
>
> It's like saying flying a rocket to the moon is the same as cycling to
> work.
>
> Some "AI" has issues, but most doesn't.
>

one sneak preview of the actual future:

https://x.com/kirawontmiss/status/1845169666248867993

> Chris wrote:
>> recognised, but also deep learning, generative learning and
>> fully conscious
>> agents.

For example?

--
Siri Seal of Disavowal #000-001. Disavowed. Denied. @
'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' /|\
The Church of the Holey Apple .signature 3.2 / \
of Discordian Mysteries. This post insults Islam. Mohamed

On Sat, 12 Oct 2024 09:16:13 +0200 (CEST), Jim D <jimd_x@hotmail.com> wrote:

>IBM and DEC developed AI tools, code and
>hardware decades ago.

I wondered why you were marked filter; read. You're a conspirakook.

--

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 23 days.

44) In a likely obstruction of justice, Trump pressured
then-FBI Director James Comey to stop the FBI's investigation
into Trump's national security adviser, Michael Flynn.
This was documented in the Mueller report.

45) When Comey didn't bend to Trump's will, Trump fired him.

On 12 Oct 2024 14:46:25 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>I like what Douglas Adams says about technology:
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>I’ve come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
>
>1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and
>is just a natural part of the way the world works.
>
>2. Anything that’s invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new
>and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
>
>3. Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of
>things.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

The man is a social genius.

--

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 23 days.

44) In a likely obstruction of justice, Trump pressured
then-FBI Director James Comey to stop the FBI's investigation
into Trump's national security adviser, Michael Flynn.
This was documented in the Mueller report.

45) When Comey didn't bend to Trump's will, Trump fired him.