On 10/1/2024 10:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On 1 Oct 2024 18:31:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 08:26:51 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> Why is something other than the hardware clock determining the system
>>> time, on either OS?
>>
>> Because hardware clocks are seldom accurate?
>
> Linux has its own system clock which is run off timer interrupts. This is
> initialized from the hardware clock at boot time, and its value is saved
> back to the hardware clock at shutdown. The rest of the time, the kernel
> doesn’t care about the hardware clock.
>
> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/hwclock.8.en.html>

"It can ... set the Hardware Clock from the System Clock; set the System
Clock from the Hardware Clock..."

So reassuring...

MS is doomed.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 00:07:23 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<vdigth$33m1a$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 10/1/2024 10:59 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On 1 Oct 2024 18:31:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 08:26:51 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why is something other than the hardware clock determining the system
>>>> time, on either OS?
>>>
>>> Because hardware clocks are seldom accurate?
>>
>> Linux has its own system clock which is run off timer interrupts. This
>> is initialized from the hardware clock at boot time, and its value is
>> saved back to the hardware clock at shutdown. The rest of the time, the
>> kernel doesn’t care about the hardware clock.
>>
>> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/hwclock.8.en.html>
>
>
> "It can ... set the Hardware Clock from the System Clock; set the System
> Clock from the Hardware Clock..."
>
> So reassuring...

And the System Clock is set by...

https://manpages.debian.org/bookworm/openntpd/ntpd.8.en.html

>
>
> MS is doomed.

MS uses ntpd time servers to sync Windows clocks, last I looked.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"If at first you don't succeed, call it v1.0!"

On 2024-10-01, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-01 1:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-09-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-09-30 2:34 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I've never had any issues with Linux keeping time, my Linux computers
>>>> automatically change on cue with my cell phones. But I just do the standard
>>>> install, I don't screw around with it. And it handles daylight savings time
>>>> changes on its own. Maybe DuFuS's choice of NTP servers suck. He seems to
>>>> have a lot of trouble with Linux that no one else ever has.
>>>
>>> Not true, I have it too. I am reminded of how often Linux Mint and
>>> Ubuntu froze during the last year on this machine to discourage me from
>>> trying it again. At the same time, when I conveniently destroyed my
>>> laptop's motherboard one day before the warranty ended and had it
>>> replaced, there is a possibility that I might have replaced what was
>>> causing the issue.
>>
>> Yeah, but you're trying to play Windows video games in Wine, which adds a
>> whole new layer of complications. I, personally, don't recommend Linux for
>> people who play Windows video games. It seems to create a constant stream of
>> frustration for them.
>
> Games were only a serious issue in 2013. At this point, they run rather
> well and I can live with a few FPS less. What I can't live with is the
> computer suddenly freezing when I'm doing the most mundane of things. At
> home, it's a mild nuisance; at work, freezes cause laughter from the
> kids and being forced to find my way back to where I was because the
> people developing Linux can't get their act together and prioritize
> stability over gender theory becomes a serious problem. Since this
> machine is both my home and work computer, I am not willing to take too
> many chances.
>
> >> You have to work>>> pretty hard on Linux to get it to NOT work. It
> looks like DuFuS puts in that
>>>> needed time.
>>>
>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were going
>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in 2013
>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only machine I
>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell). Problems
>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of getting
>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>
>> Problems are almost impossible for me to find in Linux. But I'm using
>> standard Dell business machines, running Intel GPUs and not poisoning my
>> Linux install with Windows Wine crap. So that may be why I have no trouble.
>>
>> The only real trouble I've had with Linux, on any machine in the last couple
>> years, was trying to install Linux on an HP EliteBook 8640p with a
>> semi-locked BIOS (you can get to some of the features). My nephew found it
>> in a dumpster at work and sent it to me because... (I have no clue). Linux
>> Mint and Ubuntu install, but they won't boot. Strangely enough KDE Neon
>> installs and works without issue. So, if someone can explain that one to me,
>> I would be interested to hear why. If I could get into all the BIOS settings
>> I'm sure I could get it working on Linux Mint. So, in this case, I had to
>> work pretty hard to find a (crippled) laptop where Linux Mint wouldn't
>> install and work on.
>>
>> And, BTW, the computer goes to sleep and wakes fine when opening and
>> closing, even in KDE Neon.
>
> I have yet to own a machine other than the Dell I bought in 2006 that
> didn't have suspend issues in Linux. I'm sure that I will eventually own
> one, but it's becoming something of a needle in a haystack situation.

Unfortunately a lot of the newest Dell laptops (at least the thin, higher
end ones) have gone the MacBook route, soldered on RAM and SSDs. So, most
likely, I'll be using older computers for the rest of my life. I don't like
not being able to upgrade.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-01 4:40 p.m., DFS wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 2:51 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 08:58:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in
>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only
>>>>>> machine I
>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell).
>>>>>> Problems
>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of
>>>>>> getting
>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Fuck you, imbecile!
>>>
>>> Millions use GNU/Linux and the only ones who have problems are the
>>> brain-dead, retarded asshole like you.
>>
>>
>> "I have serious problems with GNU/Linux from time to time and it's
>> always a bit of a struggle trying to get things back on track."
>>
>> Feeb, March 2018
>
> I never expect Linux advocates to tell the truth. In Feeb's case, I
> don't expect anything at all since all of his nyms are filtered. Wasting
> even five seconds reading his garbage is too much.

I never expect anti-Linux FUDsters to ever tell the truth about Linux. Their
"goto tactic" is to call Linux advocates liars. I don't lie, but I guess
they anti-Linux FUDsters are projecting.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-02 8:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-01 4:40 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2024 2:51 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 08:58:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were
>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in
>>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only
>>>>>>> machine I
>>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell).
>>>>>>> Problems
>>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of
>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fuck you, imbecile!
>>>>
>>>> Millions use GNU/Linux and the only ones who have problems are the
>>>> brain-dead, retarded asshole like you.
>>>
>>>
>>> "I have serious problems with GNU/Linux from time to time and it's
>>> always a bit of a struggle trying to get things back on track."
>>>
>>> Feeb, March 2018
>>
>> I never expect Linux advocates to tell the truth. In Feeb's case, I
>> don't expect anything at all since all of his nyms are filtered. Wasting
>> even five seconds reading his garbage is too much.
>
> I never expect anti-Linux FUDsters to ever tell the truth about Linux. Their
> "goto tactic" is to call Linux advocates liars. I don't lie, but I guess
> they anti-Linux FUDsters are projecting.

You're probably the only one here who doesn't exaggerate how great Linux
is. You might not face the same problems that I do, but at least you
concede that it is possible that they would happen. That's already a lot
more than most Linux advocates. Most will deny that a problem exists and
insult you for having experienced it.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-10-02 8:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-01, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-01 1:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-09-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-09-30 2:34 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I've never had any issues with Linux keeping time, my Linux computers
>>>>> automatically change on cue with my cell phones. But I just do the standard
>>>>> install, I don't screw around with it. And it handles daylight savings time
>>>>> changes on its own. Maybe DuFuS's choice of NTP servers suck. He seems to
>>>>> have a lot of trouble with Linux that no one else ever has.
>>>>
>>>> Not true, I have it too. I am reminded of how often Linux Mint and
>>>> Ubuntu froze during the last year on this machine to discourage me from
>>>> trying it again. At the same time, when I conveniently destroyed my
>>>> laptop's motherboard one day before the warranty ended and had it
>>>> replaced, there is a possibility that I might have replaced what was
>>>> causing the issue.
>>>
>>> Yeah, but you're trying to play Windows video games in Wine, which adds a
>>> whole new layer of complications. I, personally, don't recommend Linux for
>>> people who play Windows video games. It seems to create a constant stream of
>>> frustration for them.
>>
>> Games were only a serious issue in 2013. At this point, they run rather
>> well and I can live with a few FPS less. What I can't live with is the
>> computer suddenly freezing when I'm doing the most mundane of things. At
>> home, it's a mild nuisance; at work, freezes cause laughter from the
>> kids and being forced to find my way back to where I was because the
>> people developing Linux can't get their act together and prioritize
>> stability over gender theory becomes a serious problem. Since this
>> machine is both my home and work computer, I am not willing to take too
>> many chances.
>>
>>>> You have to work>>> pretty hard on Linux to get it to NOT work. It
>> looks like DuFuS puts in that
>>>>> needed time.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were going
>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in 2013
>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only machine I
>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell). Problems
>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of getting
>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>
>>> Problems are almost impossible for me to find in Linux. But I'm using
>>> standard Dell business machines, running Intel GPUs and not poisoning my
>>> Linux install with Windows Wine crap. So that may be why I have no trouble.
>>>
>>> The only real trouble I've had with Linux, on any machine in the last couple
>>> years, was trying to install Linux on an HP EliteBook 8640p with a
>>> semi-locked BIOS (you can get to some of the features). My nephew found it
>>> in a dumpster at work and sent it to me because... (I have no clue). Linux
>>> Mint and Ubuntu install, but they won't boot. Strangely enough KDE Neon
>>> installs and works without issue. So, if someone can explain that one to me,
>>> I would be interested to hear why. If I could get into all the BIOS settings
>>> I'm sure I could get it working on Linux Mint. So, in this case, I had to
>>> work pretty hard to find a (crippled) laptop where Linux Mint wouldn't
>>> install and work on.
>>>
>>> And, BTW, the computer goes to sleep and wakes fine when opening and
>>> closing, even in KDE Neon.
>>
>> I have yet to own a machine other than the Dell I bought in 2006 that
>> didn't have suspend issues in Linux. I'm sure that I will eventually own
>> one, but it's becoming something of a needle in a haystack situation.
>
> Unfortunately a lot of the newest Dell laptops (at least the thin, higher
> end ones) have gone the MacBook route, soldered on RAM and SSDs. So, most
> likely, I'll be using older computers for the rest of my life. I don't like
> not being able to upgrade.

I'm not a fan of the soldered crap either. Apparently, even the latest
edition of this laptop line went that route. This one is particular in
that it originally had 8GB of RAM soldered and another 8GB. You could
upgrade as much as you wanted, but that first 8GB needed to remain. When
they switched the motherboard for me, they gave me one with 16GB
soldered on it, so I suppose that they got rid of the 8/8 combination in
favour of a 16/0 one. Either way, at least there was an option to
upgrade. I think the new Zephyrus G14s don't even have that extra slot
anymore.

Unfortunately, most people don't realize what kind of pit they'll be in
if their beloved MacBooks get to the limit of writes on their storage or
if the RAM suddenly becomes defective. On a traditional laptop, you
replace what's broken and you're good to go, but with the MacBook
formula, you have no choice but to sell it for parts if your warranty is
finished unless you want to pay as much in repairs as you would on a new
machine. Even selling for parts is useless now since the Mac won't work
right if one of the pieces is different than what the machine had
originally. Apparently, it screws up if it doesn't have the right serial
number. A few guys on YouTube replaced the screens on two identical
MacBooks with the other and it immediately caused problems, so they
clearly don't care about allowing you to repair your device.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-02 8:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-01, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-01 1:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-09-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-09-30 2:34 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've never had any issues with Linux keeping time, my Linux computers
>>>>>> automatically change on cue with my cell phones. But I just do the standard
>>>>>> install, I don't screw around with it. And it handles daylight savings time
>>>>>> changes on its own. Maybe DuFuS's choice of NTP servers suck. He seems to
>>>>>> have a lot of trouble with Linux that no one else ever has.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not true, I have it too. I am reminded of how often Linux Mint and
>>>>> Ubuntu froze during the last year on this machine to discourage me from
>>>>> trying it again. At the same time, when I conveniently destroyed my
>>>>> laptop's motherboard one day before the warranty ended and had it
>>>>> replaced, there is a possibility that I might have replaced what was
>>>>> causing the issue.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but you're trying to play Windows video games in Wine, which adds a
>>>> whole new layer of complications. I, personally, don't recommend Linux for
>>>> people who play Windows video games. It seems to create a constant stream of
>>>> frustration for them.
>>>
>>> Games were only a serious issue in 2013. At this point, they run rather
>>> well and I can live with a few FPS less. What I can't live with is the
>>> computer suddenly freezing when I'm doing the most mundane of things. At
>>> home, it's a mild nuisance; at work, freezes cause laughter from the
>>> kids and being forced to find my way back to where I was because the
>>> people developing Linux can't get their act together and prioritize
>>> stability over gender theory becomes a serious problem. Since this
>>> machine is both my home and work computer, I am not willing to take too
>>> many chances.
>>>
>>>>> You have to work>>> pretty hard on Linux to get it to NOT work. It
>>> looks like DuFuS puts in that
>>>>>> needed time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were going
>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in 2013
>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only machine I
>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell). Problems
>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of getting
>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>
>>>> Problems are almost impossible for me to find in Linux. But I'm using
>>>> standard Dell business machines, running Intel GPUs and not poisoning my
>>>> Linux install with Windows Wine crap. So that may be why I have no trouble.
>>>>
>>>> The only real trouble I've had with Linux, on any machine in the last couple
>>>> years, was trying to install Linux on an HP EliteBook 8640p with a
>>>> semi-locked BIOS (you can get to some of the features). My nephew found it
>>>> in a dumpster at work and sent it to me because... (I have no clue). Linux
>>>> Mint and Ubuntu install, but they won't boot. Strangely enough KDE Neon
>>>> installs and works without issue. So, if someone can explain that one to me,
>>>> I would be interested to hear why. If I could get into all the BIOS settings
>>>> I'm sure I could get it working on Linux Mint. So, in this case, I had to
>>>> work pretty hard to find a (crippled) laptop where Linux Mint wouldn't
>>>> install and work on.
>>>>
>>>> And, BTW, the computer goes to sleep and wakes fine when opening and
>>>> closing, even in KDE Neon.
>>>
>>> I have yet to own a machine other than the Dell I bought in 2006 that
>>> didn't have suspend issues in Linux. I'm sure that I will eventually own
>>> one, but it's becoming something of a needle in a haystack situation.
>>
>> Unfortunately a lot of the newest Dell laptops (at least the thin, higher
>> end ones) have gone the MacBook route, soldered on RAM and SSDs. So, most
>> likely, I'll be using older computers for the rest of my life. I don't like
>> not being able to upgrade.
>
> I'm not a fan of the soldered crap either. Apparently, even the latest
> edition of this laptop line went that route. This one is particular in
> that it originally had 8GB of RAM soldered and another 8GB. You could
> upgrade as much as you wanted, but that first 8GB needed to remain. When
> they switched the motherboard for me, they gave me one with 16GB
> soldered on it, so I suppose that they got rid of the 8/8 combination in
> favour of a 16/0 one. Either way, at least there was an option to
> upgrade. I think the new Zephyrus G14s don't even have that extra slot
> anymore.
>
> Unfortunately, most people don't realize what kind of pit they'll be in
> if their beloved MacBooks get to the limit of writes on their storage or
> if the RAM suddenly becomes defective. On a traditional laptop, you
> replace what's broken and you're good to go, but with the MacBook
> formula, you have no choice but to sell it for parts if your warranty is
> finished unless you want to pay as much in repairs as you would on a new
> machine. Even selling for parts is useless now since the Mac won't work
> right if one of the pieces is different than what the machine had
> originally. Apparently, it screws up if it doesn't have the right serial
> number. A few guys on YouTube replaced the screens on two identical
> MacBooks with the other and it immediately caused problems, so they
> clearly don't care about allowing you to repair your device.

I'm not fan of Apple's control freakness either. And I don't like that Dell
(and the others, I believe) are following in their footsteps. I think the
object is an attempt to force a new computer on you every four years, or so.
Built in obsolescence.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-02 8:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-01 4:40 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>> On 10/1/2024 2:51 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 08:58:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were
>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in
>>>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only
>>>>>>>> machine I
>>>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell).
>>>>>>>> Problems
>>>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of
>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fuck you, imbecile!
>>>>>
>>>>> Millions use GNU/Linux and the only ones who have problems are the
>>>>> brain-dead, retarded asshole like you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "I have serious problems with GNU/Linux from time to time and it's
>>>> always a bit of a struggle trying to get things back on track."
>>>>
>>>> Feeb, March 2018
>>>
>>> I never expect Linux advocates to tell the truth. In Feeb's case, I
>>> don't expect anything at all since all of his nyms are filtered. Wasting
>>> even five seconds reading his garbage is too much.
>>
>> I never expect anti-Linux FUDsters to ever tell the truth about Linux. Their
>> "goto tactic" is to call Linux advocates liars. I don't lie, but I guess
>> they anti-Linux FUDsters are projecting.
>
> You're probably the only one here who doesn't exaggerate how great Linux
> is. You might not face the same problems that I do, but at least you
> concede that it is possible that they would happen. That's already a lot
> more than most Linux advocates. Most will deny that a problem exists and
> insult you for having experienced it.

I've seen that with some Linux "advocates" as well. I don't get it. There is
no "one size fits all." I don't even try to convince my wife or kids to use
Linux because what they want or need isn't really available (or as readily
available) in Linux (Windows games for my kids and Microsoft Office and
(now) AI crap for my wife).

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-02 9:12 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-02 8:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-01 4:40 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>> On 10/1/2024 2:51 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 08:58:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were
>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in
>>>>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only
>>>>>>>>> machine I
>>>>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell).
>>>>>>>>> Problems
>>>>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of
>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fuck you, imbecile!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Millions use GNU/Linux and the only ones who have problems are the
>>>>>> brain-dead, retarded asshole like you.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "I have serious problems with GNU/Linux from time to time and it's
>>>>> always a bit of a struggle trying to get things back on track."
>>>>>
>>>>> Feeb, March 2018
>>>>
>>>> I never expect Linux advocates to tell the truth. In Feeb's case, I
>>>> don't expect anything at all since all of his nyms are filtered. Wasting
>>>> even five seconds reading his garbage is too much.
>>>
>>> I never expect anti-Linux FUDsters to ever tell the truth about Linux. Their
>>> "goto tactic" is to call Linux advocates liars. I don't lie, but I guess
>>> they anti-Linux FUDsters are projecting.
>>
>> You're probably the only one here who doesn't exaggerate how great Linux
>> is. You might not face the same problems that I do, but at least you
>> concede that it is possible that they would happen. That's already a lot
>> more than most Linux advocates. Most will deny that a problem exists and
>> insult you for having experienced it.
>
> I've seen that with some Linux "advocates" as well. I don't get it. There is
> no "one size fits all." I don't even try to convince my wife or kids to use
> Linux because what they want or need isn't really available (or as readily
> available) in Linux (Windows games for my kids and Microsoft Office and
> (now) AI crap for my wife).

They've used Microsoft Office as an excuse to stick to Windows for so
long that it's become boring. Other than DFS, I don't think anyone
realistically needs what the suite offers. Sure, it's better for some
and you won't fall into compatibility issues when your friends or
colleagues send you their documents, but that's about as good as it
realistically gets. Office's web interface used through Linux or
LibreOffice will do its job quite well, especially when you factor in
that it cost you nothing to try.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-10-02 9:09 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-02 8:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-01, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-01 1:19 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-09-30, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-09-30 2:34 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've never had any issues with Linux keeping time, my Linux computers
>>>>>>> automatically change on cue with my cell phones. But I just do the standard
>>>>>>> install, I don't screw around with it. And it handles daylight savings time
>>>>>>> changes on its own. Maybe DuFuS's choice of NTP servers suck. He seems to
>>>>>>> have a lot of trouble with Linux that no one else ever has.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not true, I have it too. I am reminded of how often Linux Mint and
>>>>>> Ubuntu froze during the last year on this machine to discourage me from
>>>>>> trying it again. At the same time, when I conveniently destroyed my
>>>>>> laptop's motherboard one day before the warranty ended and had it
>>>>>> replaced, there is a possibility that I might have replaced what was
>>>>>> causing the issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, but you're trying to play Windows video games in Wine, which adds a
>>>>> whole new layer of complications. I, personally, don't recommend Linux for
>>>>> people who play Windows video games. It seems to create a constant stream of
>>>>> frustration for them.
>>>>
>>>> Games were only a serious issue in 2013. At this point, they run rather
>>>> well and I can live with a few FPS less. What I can't live with is the
>>>> computer suddenly freezing when I'm doing the most mundane of things. At
>>>> home, it's a mild nuisance; at work, freezes cause laughter from the
>>>> kids and being forced to find my way back to where I was because the
>>>> people developing Linux can't get their act together and prioritize
>>>> stability over gender theory becomes a serious problem. Since this
>>>> machine is both my home and work computer, I am not willing to take too
>>>> many chances.
>>>>
>>>>>> You have to work>>> pretty hard on Linux to get it to NOT work. It
>>>> looks like DuFuS puts in that
>>>>>>> needed time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were going
>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in 2013
>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only machine I
>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell). Problems
>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of getting
>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Problems are almost impossible for me to find in Linux. But I'm using
>>>>> standard Dell business machines, running Intel GPUs and not poisoning my
>>>>> Linux install with Windows Wine crap. So that may be why I have no trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only real trouble I've had with Linux, on any machine in the last couple
>>>>> years, was trying to install Linux on an HP EliteBook 8640p with a
>>>>> semi-locked BIOS (you can get to some of the features). My nephew found it
>>>>> in a dumpster at work and sent it to me because... (I have no clue). Linux
>>>>> Mint and Ubuntu install, but they won't boot. Strangely enough KDE Neon
>>>>> installs and works without issue. So, if someone can explain that one to me,
>>>>> I would be interested to hear why. If I could get into all the BIOS settings
>>>>> I'm sure I could get it working on Linux Mint. So, in this case, I had to
>>>>> work pretty hard to find a (crippled) laptop where Linux Mint wouldn't
>>>>> install and work on.
>>>>>
>>>>> And, BTW, the computer goes to sleep and wakes fine when opening and
>>>>> closing, even in KDE Neon.
>>>>
>>>> I have yet to own a machine other than the Dell I bought in 2006 that
>>>> didn't have suspend issues in Linux. I'm sure that I will eventually own
>>>> one, but it's becoming something of a needle in a haystack situation.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately a lot of the newest Dell laptops (at least the thin, higher
>>> end ones) have gone the MacBook route, soldered on RAM and SSDs. So, most
>>> likely, I'll be using older computers for the rest of my life. I don't like
>>> not being able to upgrade.
>>
>> I'm not a fan of the soldered crap either. Apparently, even the latest
>> edition of this laptop line went that route. This one is particular in
>> that it originally had 8GB of RAM soldered and another 8GB. You could
>> upgrade as much as you wanted, but that first 8GB needed to remain. When
>> they switched the motherboard for me, they gave me one with 16GB
>> soldered on it, so I suppose that they got rid of the 8/8 combination in
>> favour of a 16/0 one. Either way, at least there was an option to
>> upgrade. I think the new Zephyrus G14s don't even have that extra slot
>> anymore.
>>
>> Unfortunately, most people don't realize what kind of pit they'll be in
>> if their beloved MacBooks get to the limit of writes on their storage or
>> if the RAM suddenly becomes defective. On a traditional laptop, you
>> replace what's broken and you're good to go, but with the MacBook
>> formula, you have no choice but to sell it for parts if your warranty is
>> finished unless you want to pay as much in repairs as you would on a new
>> machine. Even selling for parts is useless now since the Mac won't work
>> right if one of the pieces is different than what the machine had
>> originally. Apparently, it screws up if it doesn't have the right serial
>> number. A few guys on YouTube replaced the screens on two identical
>> MacBooks with the other and it immediately caused problems, so they
>> clearly don't care about allowing you to repair your device.
>
> I'm not fan of Apple's control freakness either. And I don't like that Dell
> (and the others, I believe) are following in their footsteps. I think the
> object is an attempt to force a new computer on you every four years, or so.
> Built in obsolescence.

Even though I can afford to buy one every four years, I don't want to. I
only let go of my computers when it is absolutely necessary to do so. In
fact, I know I would have made good use of the MSI I've had since 2015
had I not just given it away.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 10/1/2024 8:07 AM, chrisv wrote:
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>
>>> I NEVER trust Linux to keep time. I've encountered several occurrences
>>> of it dropping 5-7 minutes over a 1-hour period.
>>>
>>> * user error
>>> * RTFM newb
>>> * you're lying
>>
>> I'll go with those three in DFS's case :-D
>
> Don't forget "attention starved loser making a jackass of himself for
> our amusement".

Why are you whiny, pathetic pissants talking about me from behind your
killfiles? stfu.

On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 12:19:20 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> Unfortunately a lot of the newest Dell laptops (at least the thin,
> higher end ones) have gone the MacBook route, soldered on RAM and SSDs.
> So, most likely, I'll be using older computers for the rest of my life.
> I don't like not being able to upgrade.

I don't often do upgrades but I was happy I could stick a hotter i5, more
RAM, and a SSD into the old Dell even if I had to go SATA with the SSD.

On 2024-10-02 10:29 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 10/1/2024 8:07 AM, chrisv wrote:
>> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> some dumb fsck wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I NEVER trust Linux to keep time.  I've encountered several occurrences
>>>> of it dropping 5-7 minutes over a 1-hour period.
>>>>
>>>> * user error
>>>> * RTFM newb
>>>> * you're lying
>>>
>>> I'll go with those three in DFS's case :-D
>>
>> Don't forget "attention starved loser making a jackass of himself for
>> our amusement".
>
>
> Why are you whiny, pathetic pissants talking about me from behind your
> killfiles?  stfu.

They are always the first to publicly announce that they have decided to
filter you because you're a variety of _ist, you disagree with them
politically or you speak the truth about your experience with Linux. I
notice they don't filter out faggots who are so flaming that they're in
danger of spontaneously combusting though.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote at 13:20 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On 2024-10-02 9:09 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
[snip]
>> I'm not fan of Apple's control freakness either. And I don't like that Dell
>> (and the others, I believe) are following in their footsteps. I think the
>> object is an attempt to force a new computer on you every four years, or so.
>> Built in obsolescence.
>
> Even though I can afford to buy one every four years, I don't want to. I
> only let go of my computers when it is absolutely necessary to do so. In
> fact, I know I would have made good use of the MSI I've had since 2015
> had I not just given it away.

I'm pretty attached to my computers too, I've only owned about 4 in my
life:
MacAir 2010 (family computer)
Thinkpad T410
Thinkpad T430
Thinkpad T580 (my current laptop)
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On 28 Sep 2024 23:21:43 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> $ ls -l /etc/localtime
>> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 39 Jul 16 07:50 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Los_Angeles
>
> This is a ?system default? timezone, which is not something that
> really makes sense on Linux.

Actually having that link makes sense on Linux and the BSDs.
It is used to default time display for users.
Like times from 'ls -l', 'date' ...

You can set TZ equal to whatever timezone in /usr/share/zoneinfo
you want.
For example:

% setenv TZ America/Denver
% date
Wed Oct 2 15:09:45 MDT 2024
% l x.txt
-rw------- 1 jmccue jmccue 116 Sep 22 14:48 x.txt
% setenv TZ America/New_York
% date
Wed Oct 2 17:10:32 EDT 2024
neutron % l x.txt
-rw------- 1 jmccue jmccue 116 Sep 22 16:48 x.txt

If TZ is not set, the default is from /etc/localtime

Setting TZ is standard on many UN*X systems, though the zone
database may be a bit different.

But, a lot of Desktop Environments (KDE, GNOME) tend to
ignore this setting and force people to use their own
internal date set. I blame that on Linux people having
no clue on how the TZ database really works.

<snip>

--
[t]csh(1) - "An elegant shell, for a more... civilized age."
- Paraphrasing Star Wars

On 2024-10-02 4:30 p.m., candycanearter07 wrote:
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote at 13:20 this Wednesday (GMT):
>> On 2024-10-02 9:09 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> [snip]
>>> I'm not fan of Apple's control freakness either. And I don't like that Dell
>>> (and the others, I believe) are following in their footsteps. I think the
>>> object is an attempt to force a new computer on you every four years, or so.
>>> Built in obsolescence.
>>
>> Even though I can afford to buy one every four years, I don't want to. I
>> only let go of my computers when it is absolutely necessary to do so. In
>> fact, I know I would have made good use of the MSI I've had since 2015
>> had I not just given it away.
>
>
> I'm pretty attached to my computers too, I've only owned about 4 in my
> life:
> MacAir 2010 (family computer)
> Thinkpad T410
> Thinkpad T430
> Thinkpad T580 (my current laptop)

I imagine that the Thinkpads run great in Linux.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

CrudeSausage wrote:

>They are always the first to publicly announce that they have decided to
>filter you because you're a variety of _ist, you disagree with them
>politically or you speak the truth about your experience with Linux.

I can't recall ever KF'ing anyone for those reasons. Of course, I've
KF'ed plenty for being worthless, lying assholes...

--
"That's what you said:" - DumFSck, lying shamelessly, after which he
quoted what I really said. Nice of him, to document his own snittish
*lie*.

On 2024-10-02 7:06 p.m., chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> They are always the first to publicly announce that they have decided to
>> filter you because you're a variety of _ist, you disagree with them
>> politically or you speak the truth about your experience with Linux.
>
> I can't recall ever KF'ing anyone for those reasons. Of course, I've
> KF'ed plenty for being worthless, lying assholes...

To be fair, there have been a lot of advocates here who have disappeared
over the years. Peter the Klöwn, for one, looks like he's lost his fight
against heated dirt.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 00:07:23 -0400, DFS wrote:

> MS is doomed.

Remember the last time the US and NZ extended their daylight-saving time,
within a relatively short while of each other? And all the trouble those
Microsoft and Apple users had? First of all, having to wait for a software
update just to change their timezone database, and secondly having the
update play havoc with their automatic system time adjustment -- some
people had the adjustment applied twice, while others missed it
altogether?

And then there was this other time where one of the Latin American
companies decided to extended its daylight-saving time, giving only about
a month’s notice of the change. The tzdata folks had a patch available
within a few days, which Linux folks like me were immediately able to use.
Because tzdata is just data, updating it doesn’t require any code changes
like a software update does.

But then, all that might have been before your time, depending on whether
you’ve finished primary school yet.

On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-02 4:30 p.m., candycanearter07 wrote:
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote at 13:20 this Wednesday (GMT):
>>> On 2024-10-02 9:09 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>> I'm not fan of Apple's control freakness either. And I don't like that Dell
>>>> (and the others, I believe) are following in their footsteps. I think the
>>>> object is an attempt to force a new computer on you every four years, or so.
>>>> Built in obsolescence.
>>>
>>> Even though I can afford to buy one every four years, I don't want to. I
>>> only let go of my computers when it is absolutely necessary to do so. In
>>> fact, I know I would have made good use of the MSI I've had since 2015
>>> had I not just given it away.
>>
>>
>> I'm pretty attached to my computers too, I've only owned about 4 in my
>> life:
>> MacAir 2010 (family computer)
>> Thinkpad T410
>> Thinkpad T430
>> Thinkpad T580 (my current laptop)
>
> I imagine that the Thinkpads run great in Linux.

I've heard that Thinkpads run Linux well, but I gave away the only one I
owned — I think it was actually an Ideapad (lower end). I didn't like that
the left Control key was in the "wrong" place. Otherwise I think it worked
well with Linux. If I remember right, Thinkpads have a white list
limitation, dictating what hardware will work in them and what won't. Dell
doesn't have those limitations. (I may be wrong, it might be another
brand other than Thinkpad that I'm thinking about.)

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-02 9:12 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-02 8:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-01 4:40 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/1/2024 2:51 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 08:58:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were
>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in
>>>>>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only
>>>>>>>>>> machine I
>>>>>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell).
>>>>>>>>>> Problems
>>>>>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of
>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fuck you, imbecile!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Millions use GNU/Linux and the only ones who have problems are the
>>>>>>> brain-dead, retarded asshole like you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I have serious problems with GNU/Linux from time to time and it's
>>>>>> always a bit of a struggle trying to get things back on track."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feeb, March 2018
>>>>>
>>>>> I never expect Linux advocates to tell the truth. In Feeb's case, I
>>>>> don't expect anything at all since all of his nyms are filtered. Wasting
>>>>> even five seconds reading his garbage is too much.
>>>>
>>>> I never expect anti-Linux FUDsters to ever tell the truth about Linux. Their
>>>> "goto tactic" is to call Linux advocates liars. I don't lie, but I guess
>>>> they anti-Linux FUDsters are projecting.
>>>
>>> You're probably the only one here who doesn't exaggerate how great Linux
>>> is. You might not face the same problems that I do, but at least you
>>> concede that it is possible that they would happen. That's already a lot
>>> more than most Linux advocates. Most will deny that a problem exists and
>>> insult you for having experienced it.
>>
>> I've seen that with some Linux "advocates" as well. I don't get it. There is
>> no "one size fits all." I don't even try to convince my wife or kids to use
>> Linux because what they want or need isn't really available (or as readily
>> available) in Linux (Windows games for my kids and Microsoft Office and
>> (now) AI crap for my wife).
>
> They've used Microsoft Office as an excuse to stick to Windows for so
> long that it's become boring. Other than DFS, I don't think anyone
> realistically needs what the suite offers. Sure, it's better for some
> and you won't fall into compatibility issues when your friends or
> colleagues send you their documents, but that's about as good as it
> realistically gets. Office's web interface used through Linux or
> LibreOffice will do its job quite well, especially when you factor in
> that it cost you nothing to try.

For text editing I was JOE (Jstar variant). For word processing I use
WordStar for DOS in DOSBox-X, convert the file to RTF format and read it
into LibreOffice or TextMaker. It keeps the formatting from WordStar and I
can keep writing in my favorite word processor — which I've been using for
over 30 years. GUI word processors get in the way for me. I can't help
messing around with the format instead of worrying about what I'm writing.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 2024-10-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 12:19:20 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately a lot of the newest Dell laptops (at least the thin,
>> higher end ones) have gone the MacBook route, soldered on RAM and SSDs.
>> So, most likely, I'll be using older computers for the rest of my life.
>> I don't like not being able to upgrade.
>
> I don't often do upgrades but I was happy I could stick a hotter i5, more
> RAM, and a SSD into the old Dell even if I had to go SATA with the SSD.

My newest Dell, a Latitude 5300, actually uses an NVME SSD, has 32 GBs of
RAM and uses an 8th generation i7. Except for the 8th generation CPU, it's
pretty modern. And it uses an Intel GPU which, for my purposes, is a lot less
hassle than a Nividia or AMD GPU. It also has an oversized battery, with up
to 8 hours of battery life, depending on what you're doing. The only thing I
don't like about modern laptops are the keyboards. Seems that, with each
generation of laptops, the keyboards get "twinkier."

My micro desktop Dell Optiplexes are basically laptops without built-in
keyboards or screens. All the components are interchangeable with laptops of
the same era — same memory and Sata SSDs (or 2.5" SATA SSDs) or both.

--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien

On 10/2/2024 9:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:

> They've used Microsoft Office as an excuse to stick to Windows for so
> long that it's become boring. Other than DFS, I don't think anyone
> realistically needs what the suite offers.

I'm the only one in the world that needs MS Office? wtf?

Face facts: the whole planet has 30 years of MS Office knowledge and
experience, and many billions of documents in use and in development.

Estimates are 1.5B+ installations of MS Office worldwide.

That's not going to suddenly disappear because a degenerate GuhNoo
sasquatch tells his starry-eyed and gullible goob devotees that
proprietary software is evil.

On 2024-10-03 5:44 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-02 9:12 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-02 8:23 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-10-02, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-10-01 4:40 p.m., DFS wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/1/2024 2:51 PM, Farley Flud wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 08:58:44 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree. I've repeatedly decided to throw myself head first into an
>>>>>>>>>>> experience that was solely Linux only to find out that there were
>>>>>>>>>>> going
>>>>>>>>>>> to be certain issues. I had serious slowdowns and screen tearing in
>>>>>>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>>>>>>> with gaming, I had random freezes in the last year, I've had
>>>>>>>>>>> suspend/wake issues throughout and in the last year (the only
>>>>>>>>>>> machine I
>>>>>>>>>>> owned which never had this problem with Linux is my 2006 Dell).
>>>>>>>>>>> Problems
>>>>>>>>>>> aren't hard to find. One must really be dedicated to the idea of
>>>>>>>>>>> getting
>>>>>>>>>>> rid of Windows to disregard them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fuck you, imbecile!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Millions use GNU/Linux and the only ones who have problems are the
>>>>>>>> brain-dead, retarded asshole like you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I have serious problems with GNU/Linux from time to time and it's
>>>>>>> always a bit of a struggle trying to get things back on track."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Feeb, March 2018
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never expect Linux advocates to tell the truth. In Feeb's case, I
>>>>>> don't expect anything at all since all of his nyms are filtered. Wasting
>>>>>> even five seconds reading his garbage is too much.
>>>>>
>>>>> I never expect anti-Linux FUDsters to ever tell the truth about Linux. Their
>>>>> "goto tactic" is to call Linux advocates liars. I don't lie, but I guess
>>>>> they anti-Linux FUDsters are projecting.
>>>>
>>>> You're probably the only one here who doesn't exaggerate how great Linux
>>>> is. You might not face the same problems that I do, but at least you
>>>> concede that it is possible that they would happen. That's already a lot
>>>> more than most Linux advocates. Most will deny that a problem exists and
>>>> insult you for having experienced it.
>>>
>>> I've seen that with some Linux "advocates" as well. I don't get it. There is
>>> no "one size fits all." I don't even try to convince my wife or kids to use
>>> Linux because what they want or need isn't really available (or as readily
>>> available) in Linux (Windows games for my kids and Microsoft Office and
>>> (now) AI crap for my wife).
>>
>> They've used Microsoft Office as an excuse to stick to Windows for so
>> long that it's become boring. Other than DFS, I don't think anyone
>> realistically needs what the suite offers. Sure, it's better for some
>> and you won't fall into compatibility issues when your friends or
>> colleagues send you their documents, but that's about as good as it
>> realistically gets. Office's web interface used through Linux or
>> LibreOffice will do its job quite well, especially when you factor in
>> that it cost you nothing to try.
>
> For text editing I was JOE (Jstar variant). For word processing I use
> WordStar for DOS in DOSBox-X, convert the file to RTF format and read it
> into LibreOffice or TextMaker. It keeps the formatting from WordStar and I
> can keep writing in my favorite word processor — which I've been using for
> over 30 years. GUI word processors get in the way for me. I can't help
> messing around with the format instead of worrying about what I'm writing

You're not the only one. Products have emerged since the explosion in
popularity of things like WordPerfect and Word which go back to the old
way, where the interface stays out of sight. The priority should be on
the content you produce, not the aesthetics of the software. That's part
of why people shouldn't care, for example, that Word 2024 is prettier
than Word 2021.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king

On 2024-10-03 8:39 a.m., DFS wrote:
> On 10/2/2024 9:19 AM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>
>> They've used Microsoft Office as an excuse to stick to Windows for so
>> long that it's become boring. Other than DFS, I don't think anyone
>> realistically needs what the suite offers.
>
>
> I'm the only one in the world that needs MS Office?  wtf?

I meant the people in this newsgroup. Relax.

> Face facts: the whole planet has 30 years of MS Office knowledge and
> experience, and many billions of documents in use and in development.
>
> Estimates are 1.5B+ installations of MS Office worldwide.
>
> That's not going to suddenly disappear because a degenerate GuhNoo
> sasquatch tells his starry-eyed and gullible goob devotees that
> proprietary software is evil.

Agreed.

--
CrudeSausage
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king