Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
carts?

'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'

<https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>

'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
petrol-powered vehicles.

Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.

By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
year earlier.

The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.

The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
available.

It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.

The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.

Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
engines.

The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
cars and e-scooters.

The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
growing scepticism towards electric cars.

A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
2022.

Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.

Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.

It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
intend to buy an EV.

The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
replying they did not expect to do so at all.

High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
charge.

The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.

Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
comes to switching to EVs.'

On 9/28/2024 6:08 AM, John Smyth wrote:
> Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
> carts?

Why would anybody risk being in one in traffic?!? One smack and bodies
will fly right out.

> 'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'
>
> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>
>
> 'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
> years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
> petrol-powered vehicles.
>
> Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
> drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.
>
> By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
> motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
> year earlier.
>
> The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
> petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.
>
> The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
> since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
> available.
>
> It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
> summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.
>
> The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
> their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.
>
> Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
> older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
> engines.
>
> The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
> their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
> cars and e-scooters.
>
> The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
> growing scepticism towards electric cars.
>
> A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
> recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
> Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
> 2022.
>
> Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
> motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
> twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.

Not to mention the time it takes to sit there waiting for a charge.
They are also targets for criminals sitting there hooked up.

> Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
> cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.
>
> It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
> intend to buy an EV.
>
> The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
> participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
> replying they did not expect to do so at all.
>
> High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
> of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
> charge.

The cars have no range in the cold. Worthless for ski bunnies.

> The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
> plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
> cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
> fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.
>
> Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
> ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
> comes to switching to EVs.'

Dave Wainwright <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 9/28/2024 6:08 AM, John Smyth wrote:
>> Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
>> carts?
>
> Why would anybody risk being in one in traffic?!? One smack and bodies
> will fly right out.
>
>> 'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'
>>
>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>
>>
>> 'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
>> years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
>> petrol-powered vehicles.
>>
>> Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
>> drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.
>>
>> By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
>> motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
>> year earlier.
>>
>> The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
>> petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.
>>
>> The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
>> since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
>> available.
>>
>> It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
>> summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.
>>
>> The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
>> their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.
>>
>> Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
>> older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
>> engines.
>>
>> The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
>> their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
>> cars and e-scooters.
>>
>> The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
>> growing scepticism towards electric cars.
>>
>> A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
>> recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
>> Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
>> 2022.
>>
>> Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
>> motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
>> twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.
>
> Not to mention the time it takes to sit there waiting for a charge.

Go grab a coffee or some lunch.

> They are also targets for criminals sitting there hooked up.

This is the UK, not the wild west.

>> Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
>> cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.
>>
>> It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
>> intend to buy an EV.
>>
>> The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
>> participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
>> replying they did not expect to do so at all.
>>
>> High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
>> of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
>> charge.
>
> The cars have no range in the cold. Worthless for ski bunnies.
>
>> The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
>> plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
>> cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
>> fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.
>>
>> Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
>> ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
>> comes to switching to EVs.'
>

This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market for
EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.

>Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
>carts?

Trump says Americans don't know how and never will know to make electric
vehicles and that they all come from China.

It makes you wonder why he owns over 265 of them and they're all that's
also used by the RNC and Fox News. EV's are the offical vehicles of the
NRA and Gateway Pundit.

What do you think about Trump being locked up and repeatedly raped and
beaten behind bars?

You�re Wrong About EV Fires

Gas- and diesel-powered vehicles catch fire way more often than EVs, but
you wouldn�t know that from the headlines.

Scott EvansWriterRyan LugoIllustratorJul 17, 2023

There's a car fire roughly every five minutes in America. The vast majority
of them never make the news. But if a Tesla or a Chevy Bolt catches fire?
It's probably on the front page nationwide and going viral online. If the
sensational headlines and social media videos are to be believed, EVs are
flaming deathtraps that could spontaneously combust at any minute.

EVs are new and different, and their fires pose some different challenges
for first responders, so some coverage makes sense; we ourselves cover
unusual or noteworthy instances. But if electric vehicles are no more
likely to catch fire than any other car on the road, the headline frequency
can be misleading. In fact, the data says they account for a tiny fraction
of all car fires.
Far More Non-EVs Catch Fire

According to National Fire Incident Reporting System data collected by the
U.S. Fire Administration and analyzed by the National Fire Protection
Association (NFPA) , an average of 117,370 passenger vehicles caught fire
every year between 2013 and 2017 (the most recent data available). That
works out to 321 car fires per day, or a car fire every five minutes. How
many of those car fires are EVs?

The fact is, no one knows for sure. No American government agency we're
aware of breaks out car fires by drivetrain, nor do they granularly break
out car fires by vehicle age. There is no database that tells you how many
EVs catch fire each year or what percentage of EVs catch fire. Similarly,
no database tells you how many cars running on gas or diesel catch on fire.
The NFPA analysis even goes out of its way to mention the lack of data on
EVs and makes no claims about the frequency or likelihood of EV fires.

The Swedish authorities, however, are keeping track. The Myndigheten f�r
Samh�llsskydd och Beredskap (MSB, or Authority for Social Protection and
Preparedness) recently released the first report of its kind specifically
tracking EV fires in Sweden and comparing them to combustion-powered
vehicle fires and the results are clear: EVs are much less likely to catch
fire.

Per the MSB, just 29 EVs and 52 hybrids caught fire in Sweden between 2018
and 2022. On average, 16 vehicles powered by batteries (EVs and hybrids
combined) catch fire there each year. On average, 3,400 passenger vehicles
catch fire each year in Sweden, meaning EVs account for 0.4 percent of all
passenger vehicle fires there annually. Hybrids account for 1.5 percent,
for a combined total of 1.9 percent of all passenger vehicle fires.

Put another way, gas- and diesel-powered cars account for 98.1 percent of
all passenger vehicle fires in Sweden each year on average.
Find a car near you
Combustion-Powered Vehicles Are 29 Times More Likely To Catch Fire

According to MSB data, there are nearly 611,000 EVs and hybrids in Sweden
as of 2022. With an average of 16 EV and hybrid fires per year, there's a 1
in 38,000 chance of fire. There are a total of roughly 4.4 million gas- and
diesel-powered passenger vehicles in Sweden, with an average of 3,384 fires
per year, for a 1 in 1,300 chance of fire. That means gas- and diesel-
powered passenger vehicles are 29 times more likely to catch fire than EVs
and hybrids.
The Problem Isn�t Getting Worse

With more and more EVs, hybrids, and plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) being sold
every year, it's reasonable to wonder whether that rate of fires in those
cars will increase. The MSB study found that after a rise in fires from
2019 to 2020, the rate is basically unchanged over the past 3 years with 20
EV and hybrid fires in 2020, 24 fires in 2021, and 23 fires in 2022. In
that same time period, the MSB reports the number of EVs in Sweden has more
than doubled to nearly 611,000. Prior to 2020, fewer EVs and hybrids caught
fire with 8 in 2018 and 6 in 2019.
Not All EVs Are Made The Same

Note these numbers include all hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and EVs and not
just ones using lithium-ion batteries. Up until 2021, the vast majority of
hybrids used nickel-metal hydride batteries, which don't burn the same way
lithium-ion batteries do.

The MSB also notes that not all of the fires included in its numbers
involved the battery pack. In some cases, other parts of the vehicle burned
but the fire was put out before it reached the batteries.

We should also point out there are some EVs and hybrids sold in Sweden that
are not sold in the U.S. and some that are sold here that aren't sold in
Sweden, so the fire risk may differ slightly in our two countries.
Electrical Problems Aren�t the Leading Cause of Car Fires

Not having an engine and its accompanying mechanical systems might actually
reduce the risk of a vehicle fire. According to the NFPA, the leading cause
of vehicle fires is mechanical failure or malfunction, accounting for 45
percent of all such fires. Electrical problems are a distant second,
accounting for 23 percent of the total. Not having gasoline, hot exhaust,
and controlled explosions on board significantly reduces the possible ways
for a fire to start.
Age Matters More

In fact, the analysis shows older cars are far and away the most likely to
catch fire and the risk of fire increases the older a car gets. A total of
77 percent of all car fires that occurred in 2017 involved vehicles made in
2007 or earlier, so those at least 10 years old or older. The original
Tesla Roadster didn't come out until 2008, and only 2,500 of those were
built. The first mass-market EV, the Nissan Leaf, wasn't released until
2010. Only the earliest modern EVs, of which very few were sold, are 10
years old today. The NFPA report cites worn-out parts and deferred
maintenance as the likely cause of increased fire danger for older cars.
EV Fires Are Harder To Put Out

It's true that car fires involving vehicles with lithium-ion batteries must
be handled differently than other car fires both because of the risk of
high-voltage electrical shock and the way lithium-ion batteries burn. When
extremely overheated, lithium-ion batteries experience what's called
thermal runaway, a chemical process that isn't as easily extinguished as a
gasoline fire in part because it doesn't require oxygen. They also carry a
higher likelihood of reigniting after the fire is believed to be
extinguished.

Because of this, it can take far more water to put out a fire with a
lithium-ion battery than a typical car fire. Automakers who have supplied
guidelines to the NFPA generally suggest 3,000 gallons of water or more to
put out an EV fire.

In the meantime, many fire departments are issuing much simpler guidance:
If an EV battery is on fire and there's minimal risk of the fire spreading
to other vehicles, structures, or the environment, just let it burn itself
out. The International Association of Fire Chiefs recommends "consideration
and tactics [that] may be categorized in offensive or defensive mode. This
may be based on exposures and the extent of fire which may include actions
to let the vehicle burn." The city of Phoenix, Arizona, suggests in its
official handbook "once life safety has been addressed, fire companies
should determine if they should suppress the fire or simply allow the
vehicle to burn � once the batteries have gone into thermal runaway, we
understand that the vehicle is most likely a total loss. Control efforts
must consider life safety, property conservation, exposure protection,
environmental protection, and firefighter safety."

Numerous organizations, including various levels of government and
nonprofits, are working to train fire departments on best practices for
extinguishing EV fires, and research is being done into better techniques
and improved fire-suppressing chemicals. Most departments are already
familiar with procedures for avoiding electrical shocks, as hybrids have
been on the road for more than 20 years now. Manufacturers continue to
denote high-voltage componentry and wiring with orange coloring and
prominent labeling.

The firefighting procedures also extend to how burned EVs are handled once
the fire is out. Because thermal runaway is a chemical chain reaction,
damaged lithium-ion batteries remain at risk of reigniting for far longer
than gasoline or diesel. Once an EV fire is put out, the remains will need
to be transported to a holding yard prepared to handle a reignition. These
yards typically follow additional procedures, such as keeping burned EVs
farther away from other flammable objects and monitoring the remains for
reignition.
Do the Math

Chris wrote:

>Go grab a coffee or some lunch.

Idiot.

On 9/29/24 5:19 AM, Chris wrote:
> Dave Wainwright <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 9/28/2024 6:08 AM, John Smyth wrote:
>>> Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
>>> carts?
>>
>> Why would anybody risk being in one in traffic?!? One smack and bodies
>> will fly right out.

Fun fact: seatbelts aren't unique to only petrol vehicles.

>>> 'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'
>>>
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>
>>>
>>> 'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
>>> years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
>>> petrol-powered vehicles.
>>>
>>> Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
>>> drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.
>>>
>>> By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
>>> motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
>>> year earlier.
>>>
>>> The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
>>> petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.
>>>
>>> The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
>>> since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
>>> available.
>>>
>>> It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
>>> summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.
>>>
>>> The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
>>> their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.
>>>
>>> Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
>>> older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
>>> engines.
>>>
>>> The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
>>> their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
>>> cars and e-scooters.
>>>
>>> The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
>>> growing scepticism towards electric cars.

There's also how Tesla's toxic CEO turning off more progressively-minded
consumers, as they don't want to be associated with Elon Musk's politics
in any way. As such, those wallets are going elsewhere.

>>>
>>> A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
>>> recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
>>> Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
>>> 2022.
>>>
>>> Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
>>> motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
>>> twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.

I've heard that UK public chargers have gotten ridiculously expensive.
As such, EVs are becoming less financially competitive.

>>
>> Not to mention the time it takes to sit there waiting for a charge.
>
> Go grab a coffee or some lunch.

If one has to actively wait or not depends on use case; the early
adopters in the US were generally more affluent suburban homeowners, who
could afford to have a Level I or II charger in their garage, and thus
charge at residential electrical rates (including off-peak) by plugging
in at night (car recharges while one sleeps).

>> They are also targets for criminals sitting there hooked up.
>
> This is the UK, not the wild west.

Depends on what level of criminality we're referring to. For example,
the act to unplug an unattended EV could be just juvenile delinquent
mischief, which comes down to the neighborhood & residents thereof.

But it can also be a political statement (especially against Musk),
which is just starting to become reported in some regions in the US.
Most of it so far as been to key (scratch) the vehicle, but there's also
been some unplugs of unattended EVs reported too. Question as I see it
is if it will subside after this fall's election in the US.

>>> Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
>>> cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.
>>>
>>> It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
>>> intend to buy an EV.
>>>
>>> The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
>>> participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
>>> replying they did not expect to do so at all.

Of course, demographics play a part here too: if you're age 70+ and
have just bought a vehicle, what are the odds of needing to buy another
new vehicle within one's remaining lifespan? Similarly, there's a
"status quo" inertia to resist change to a new & significantly different
technology, even if all of the EV infrastructure challenges were solved.

>>> High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
>>> of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
>>> charge.
>>
>> The cars have no range in the cold. Worthless for ski bunnies.

Depends on how cold. Traditional ICE's do have an advantage of 'free'
waste heat for winter use, but in very cold climates, they also have
logistical complexities to keep operating, such as block heaters.

>>> The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
>>> plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
>>> cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
>>> fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.
>>>
>>> Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
>>> ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
>>> comes to switching to EVs.'
>>
>
> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market for
> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.

There's also a philosophical policy question of if it ever really merits
trying to push for 100%: why not 95%, etc? Ultimately, one wants to
have a policy which aligns well with economic & logistical drivers, such
that its a demand "pull" by consumers, instead of an imposed "push".

-hh

"Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
> Dave Wainwright <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 9/28/2024 6:08 AM, John Smyth wrote:
>>> Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
>>> carts?
>>
>> Why would anybody risk being in one in traffic?!? One smack and bodies
>> will fly right out.
>>
>>> 'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'
>>>
>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>
>>>
>>> 'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
>>> years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
>>> petrol-powered vehicles.
>>>
>>> Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
>>> drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.
>>>
>>> By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
>>> motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
>>> year earlier.
>>>
>>> The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
>>> petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.
>>>
>>> The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
>>> since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
>>> available.
>>>
>>> It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
>>> summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.
>>>
>>> The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
>>> their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.
>>>
>>> Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
>>> older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
>>> engines.
>>>
>>> The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
>>> their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
>>> cars and e-scooters.
>>>
>>> The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
>>> growing scepticism towards electric cars.
>>>
>>> A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
>>> recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
>>> Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
>>> 2022.
>>>
>>> Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
>>> motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
>>> twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.
>>
>> Not to mention the time it takes to sit there waiting for a charge.
>
> Go grab a coffee or some lunch.
>
>> They are also targets for criminals sitting there hooked up.
>
> This is the UK, not the wild west.
>
>>> Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
>>> cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.
>>>
>>> It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
>>> intend to buy an EV.
>>>
>>> The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
>>> participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
>>> replying they did not expect to do so at all.
>>>
>>> High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
>>> of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
>>> charge.
>>
>> The cars have no range in the cold. Worthless for ski bunnies.
>>
>>> The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
>>> plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
>>> cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
>>> fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.
>>>
>>> Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
>>> ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
>>> comes to switching to EVs.'
>>
>
> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market
> for
> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.

Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to ICEs.
Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV. Then let's not forget
you're going to pay about 20% more to insure that EV given how easily they
are totaled compared to an ICE.

On 2024-09-30, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>> Dave Wainwright <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 9/28/2024 6:08 AM, John Smyth wrote:
>>>> Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
>>>> carts?
>>>
>>> Why would anybody risk being in one in traffic?!? One smack and bodies
>>> will fly right out.
>>>
>>>> 'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>
>>>>
>>>> 'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
>>>> years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
>>>> petrol-powered vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
>>>> drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
>>>> motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
>>>> year earlier.
>>>>
>>>> The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
>>>> petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.
>>>>
>>>> The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
>>>> since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
>>>> summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.
>>>>
>>>> The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
>>>> their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.
>>>>
>>>> Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
>>>> older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
>>>> engines.
>>>>
>>>> The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
>>>> their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
>>>> cars and e-scooters.
>>>>
>>>> The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
>>>> growing scepticism towards electric cars.
>>>>
>>>> A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
>>>> recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
>>>> Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
>>>> 2022.
>>>>
>>>> Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
>>>> motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
>>>> twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.
>>>
>>> Not to mention the time it takes to sit there waiting for a charge.
>>
>> Go grab a coffee or some lunch.
>>
>>> They are also targets for criminals sitting there hooked up.
>>
>> This is the UK, not the wild west.
>>
>>>> Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
>>>> cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.
>>>>
>>>> It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
>>>> intend to buy an EV.
>>>>
>>>> The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
>>>> participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
>>>> replying they did not expect to do so at all.
>>>>
>>>> High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
>>>> of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
>>>> charge.
>>>
>>> The cars have no range in the cold. Worthless for ski bunnies.
>>>
>>>> The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
>>>> plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
>>>> cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
>>>> fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.
>>>>
>>>> Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
>>>> ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
>>>> comes to switching to EVs.'
>>>
>>
>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market
>> for
>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>
> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to ICEs.
> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV. Then let's not forget
> you're going to pay about 20% more to insure that EV given how easily they
> are totaled compared to an ICE.
>

In NYS it's difficult to get insurance on a Tesla CyberTruck. I've seen a
couple of them, with NY tags so I guess it is possible though.

Personally if people want to buy an EV let them.
I really don't care one way or the other.
My objections are the government getting involved and effectively attempting to
limit my choice of buying an ICE vehicle.

Why not let the market decide?

--
pothead
Kamala Harris Word Salad Special Of The Day
Served Complete With Venn Diagram Dressing

Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>
>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market
>> for
>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>
> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to ICEs.

Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand prices.
Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels

> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.

High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car for
your money.

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>
> In NYS it's difficult to get insurance on a Tesla CyberTruck. I've seen a
> couple of them, with NY tags so I guess it is possible though.

Saw my first one in the flesh a couple of weeks. Jesus they're ugly.

> Personally if people want to buy an EV let them.
> I really don't care one way or the other.
> My objections are the government getting involved and effectively attempting to
> limit my choice of buying an ICE vehicle.
>
> Why not let the market decide?

Because it's not a market decision.

"Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdejoo$2a9gl$1@dont-email.me...
> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market
>>> for
>>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>>
>> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to ICEs.
>
> Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand prices.
> Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels

....and those realistic levels represent a massive depreciation in value.

Not something you really want in a car, particularly given it's probably the
2nd largest purchase most people would make after their homes.

>> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
>> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.
>
> High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car for
> your money.

No, if you were getting a lot of car then the value wouldn't depreciate that
much. It drops so much because far fewer people want them.

"Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdejop$2a9gl$2@dont-email.me...
> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>
>> In NYS it's difficult to get insurance on a Tesla CyberTruck. I've seen a
>> couple of them, with NY tags so I guess it is possible though.
>
> Saw my first one in the flesh a couple of weeks. Jesus they're ugly.
>
>> Personally if people want to buy an EV let them.
>> I really don't care one way or the other.
>> My objections are the government getting involved and effectively
>> attempting to
>> limit my choice of buying an ICE vehicle.
>>
>> Why not let the market decide?
>
> Because it's not a market decision.

And that's exactly the problem.

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote in
news:vdeho2$29rul$1@dont-email.me:

>
>
> Why not let the market decide?

Where was that "market" when
Trump was throwing BILLIONS at farmers
after he ruined their export market?

Trump Tariff Aid To Farmers Cost More
Than U.S. Nuclear Forces
Jan 21 2929

The Trump administration gave more
taxpayer dollars to farmers harmed
by the administration�s trade policies
than the federal government spends each
year building ships for the Navy or
maintaining America�s nuclear arsenal,
according to a new report. A National
Foundation for American Policy analysis
concluded the spending on farmers was
also higher than the annual budgets of
several government agencies.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/01/21/trump-tariff-aid-to-
farmers-cost-more-than-us-nuclear-forces/

Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vdejoo$2a9gl$1@dont-email.me...
>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>
>>>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market
>>>> for
>>>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>>>
>>> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to ICEs.
>>
>> Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand prices.
>> Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels
>
> ...and those realistic levels represent a massive depreciation in value.
>
> Not something you really want in a car, particularly given it's probably the
> 2nd largest purchase most people would make after their homes.
>
>
>>> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
>>> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.
>>
>> High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car for
>> your money.
>
> No, if you were getting a lot of car then the value wouldn't depreciate that
> much. It drops so much because far fewer people want them.

It's supply and demand where the demand hasn't changed, but supply has.
Lots of new EVs were bought post covid and now filtering into the market.

Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vdejop$2a9gl$2@dont-email.me...
>> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In NYS it's difficult to get insurance on a Tesla CyberTruck. I've seen a
>>> couple of them, with NY tags so I guess it is possible though.
>>
>> Saw my first one in the flesh a couple of weeks. Jesus they're ugly.
>>
>>> Personally if people want to buy an EV let them.
>>> I really don't care one way or the other.
>>> My objections are the government getting involved and effectively
>>> attempting to
>>> limit my choice of buying an ICE vehicle.
>>>
>>> Why not let the market decide?
>>
>> Because it's not a market decision.
>
> And that's exactly the problem.

It's the solution. The market is the problem.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 22:29:28 +0200 (CEST), hrc <hrc@jail.soon> wrote:

>That's what government does. The role of business is to legally
>circumvent or take advantage of what the government does. Democrat
>facist run governments such as the Biden/Harris gang tend to strangle
>businesses and therefore revenue.

Then why is the Biden economy so strong? Why does the economy historically do
better under Democrats than Republicans?

The last three Republican Presidents left office during a recession.
The net job gain under Republicans since Bush I was sworn in has been 1 million
jobs.
The net job gain under Democrats for the same period is 50 million.
Even if you go all the way back to Reagan, the score is 4 million Republicans,
50 million Democrats.

On the economy, Republicans haven't a leg to stand on.

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 36 days.

21) Trump separated more than 5000 children from their
parents at the border with no plan to ever reunite them.
Putting babies in cages without their families.

22) The Muslim Ban.

On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 10:55:02 -0400, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>On 9/29/24 5:19 AM, Chris wrote:
>> Dave Wainwright <nospam@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On 9/28/2024 6:08 AM, John Smyth wrote:
>>>> Why would anybody waste their money on one of these overpriced golf
>>>> carts?
>>>
>>> Why would anybody risk being in one in traffic?!? One smack and bodies
>>> will fly right out.
>
>Fun fact: seatbelts aren't unique to only petrol vehicles.
>
>
>>>> 'Electric car demand slumps to four-year low'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/electric-car-demand-slumps-to-four-year-low/ar-AA1rmG1p?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=fd94a49420ac4d07b11aec9d4fd04a77&ei=121>
>>>>
>>>> 'Interest in electric cars has slumped to its lowest level for four
>>>> years as an increasing number of drivers say they will stick with
>>>> petrol-powered vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> Figures from the Department for Transport show that just 13pc of all
>>>> drivers plan to buy a fully electric car as their next vehicle.
>>>>
>>>> By contrast, interest in combustion-engine cars has risen, with 37pc of
>>>> motorists saying they will buy a petrol-powered vehicle, up from 31pc a
>>>> year earlier.
>>>>
>>>> The figures represent a new setback to Labour’s plans to ban the sale of
>>>> petrol and diesel cars by the end of the decade.
>>>>
>>>> The 13pc of people planning to buy an electric vehicle is the lowest
>>>> since the summer of 2020, when the vehicles were much less widely
>>>> available.
>>>>
>>>> It is down from 16pc this time last year and a peak of 19pc in the
>>>> summer of 2022. Interest in hybrids has also dipped.
>>>>
>>>> The latest figures show that around 30pc are now seeking to buy them as
>>>> their next car, down from 35pc in 2022.
>>>>
>>>> Among potential hybrid buyers, motorists are increasingly opting for
>>>> older non-plug-in variations that largely rely on internal combustion
>>>> engines.
>>>>
>>>> The DfT’s Future of Transport programme regularly surveys the public on
>>>> their attitude towards technologies such as electric cars, driverless
>>>> cars and e-scooters.
>>>>
>>>> The latest wave of research, carried out at the end of last year, shows
>>>> growing scepticism towards electric cars.
>
>There's also how Tesla's toxic CEO turning off more progressively-minded
>consumers, as they don't want to be associated with Elon Musk's politics
>in any way. As such, those wallets are going elsewhere.
>
>
>>>>
>>>> A growing number cited the vehicles’ up-front cost, but the study also
>>>> recorded a surge in motorists concerned about ongoing running costs.
>>>> Some 30pc of motorists cited this as a downside, compared to 18pc in
>>>> 2022.
>>>>
>>>> Rising electricity rates and falling fuel prices have meant that
>>>> motorists who rely exclusively on public charging networks now pay up to
>>>> twice as much per mile as those in petrol cars.
>
>I've heard that UK public chargers have gotten ridiculously expensive.
>As such, EVs are becoming less financially competitive.
>
>
>>>
>>> Not to mention the time it takes to sit there waiting for a charge.
>>
>> Go grab a coffee or some lunch.
>
>If one has to actively wait or not depends on use case; the early
>adopters in the US were generally more affluent suburban homeowners, who
>could afford to have a Level I or II charger in their garage, and thus
>charge at residential electrical rates (including off-peak) by plugging
>in at night (car recharges while one sleeps).
>
>
>>> They are also targets for criminals sitting there hooked up.
>>
>> This is the UK, not the wild west.
>
>Depends on what level of criminality we're referring to. For example,
>the act to unplug an unattended EV could be just juvenile delinquent
>mischief, which comes down to the neighborhood & residents thereof.
>
>But it can also be a political statement (especially against Musk),
>which is just starting to become reported in some regions in the US.
>Most of it so far as been to key (scratch) the vehicle, but there's also
>been some unplugs of unattended EVs reported too. Question as I see it
>is if it will subside after this fall's election in the US.
>
>
>>>> Labour has promised to reinstate a 2030 ban on sale of petrol-powered
>>>> cars, but sales of EVs are already well behind government targets.
>>>>
>>>> It comes as a new poll finds that half of Britons say they do not ever
>>>> intend to buy an EV.
>>>>
>>>> The research, carried out by YouGov for rental marketplace Turo, asked
>>>> participants when, if ever, they expected to make the switch, with 49pc
>>>> replying they did not expect to do so at all.
>
>Of course, demographics play a part here too: if you're age 70+ and
>have just bought a vehicle, what are the odds of needing to buy another
>new vehicle within one's remaining lifespan? Similarly, there's a
>"status quo" inertia to resist change to a new & significantly different
>technology, even if all of the EV infrastructure challenges were solved.
>
>
>>>> High costs were the biggest reason, the survey said, followed by a lack
>>>> of charging infrastructure, range concerns and the time it takes to
>>>> charge.
>>>
>>> The cars have no range in the cold. Worthless for ski bunnies.
>
>Depends on how cold. Traditional ICE's do have an advantage of 'free'
>waste heat for winter use, but in very cold climates, they also have
>logistical complexities to keep operating, such as block heaters.

As of September 2024, electric cars make up 34.8% of all cars in Norway, while
gas-powered cars make up 26.2%. This means that electric cars now outnumber
gas-powered cars in Norway, a first for the world.
Here are some other details about electric vehicles in Norway:
Market share
In 2023, about 90% of all cars sold in Norway were electric, which is a big
increase from 2019 when only 53.4% of cars sold were electric.

<https://www.google.com/search?q=what+percentage+of+vehicles+in+norway+are+electric&oq=what+percentage+of+vehicles+in+norway&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyBggBEEUYOTIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjINCAUQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAYQABiGAxiABBiKBTIKCAcQABiABBiiBDIKCAgQABiABBiiBNIBCDgxODFqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>

>>>> The survey of 2,000 people also found that 47pc opposed the Government’s
>>>> plan to reinstate the 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel
>>>> cars. Instead, the majority of respondents said they wanted ministers to
>>>> fix potholes and bring down fuel prices.
>>>>
>>>> Rory Brimmer, head of UK business development at Turo, said: “As our car
>>>> ownership index shows, there are still some doubts among drivers when it
>>>> comes to switching to EVs.'
>>>
>>
>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market for
>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>
>There's also a philosophical policy question of if it ever really merits
>trying to push for 100%: why not 95%, etc? Ultimately, one wants to
>have a policy which aligns well with economic & logistical drivers, such
>that its a demand "pull" by consumers, instead of an imposed "push".
>
>
>-hh
--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 36 days.

21) Trump separated more than 5000 children from their
parents at the border with no plan to ever reunite them.
Putting babies in cages without their families.

22) The Muslim Ban.

"Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdg4po$2klos$1@dont-email.me...
> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:vdejoo$2a9gl$1@dont-email.me...
>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand
>>>>> market
>>>>> for
>>>>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>>>>
>>>> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to
>>>> ICEs.
>>>
>>> Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand prices.
>>> Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels
>>
>> ...and those realistic levels represent a massive depreciation in value.
>>
>> Not something you really want in a car, particularly given it's probably
>> the
>> 2nd largest purchase most people would make after their homes.
>>
>>
>>>> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
>>>> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.
>>>
>>> High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car
>>> for
>>> your money.
>>
>> No, if you were getting a lot of car then the value wouldn't depreciate
>> that
>> much. It drops so much because far fewer people want them.
>
> It's supply and demand where the demand hasn't changed, but supply has.
> Lots of new EVs were bought post covid and now filtering into the market.

yep, and seems like there isn't very much demand for the supply of used EVs
or the price would be higher than it is.

On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 06:28:09 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:vdejoo$2a9gl$1@dont-email.me...
>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>
>>>>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand market
>>>>> for
>>>>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>>>>
>>>> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to ICEs.
>>>
>>> Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand prices.
>>> Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels
>>
>> ...and those realistic levels represent a massive depreciation in value.
>>
>> Not something you really want in a car, particularly given it's probably the
>> 2nd largest purchase most people would make after their homes.
>>
>>
>>>> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
>>>> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.
>>>
>>> High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car for
>>> your money.
>>
>> No, if you were getting a lot of car then the value wouldn't depreciate that
>> much. It drops so much because far fewer people want them.
>
>It's supply and demand where the demand hasn't changed, but supply has.
>Lots of new EVs were bought post covid and now filtering into the market.

Bingo! There were just a few EV manufacturers so demand on them was high.
Overnight the number of EV makers expanded exponentially until supply exceeded
demand so sales *appeared* to have fallen greatly.

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 36 days.

21) Trump separated more than 5000 children from their
parents at the border with no plan to ever reunite them.
Putting babies in cages without their families.

22) The Muslim Ban.

On 2024-10-01, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:vdg4po$2klos$1@dont-email.me...
>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vdejoo$2a9gl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand
>>>>>> market
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to
>>>>> ICEs.
>>>>
>>>> Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand prices.
>>>> Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels
>>>
>>> ...and those realistic levels represent a massive depreciation in value.
>>>
>>> Not something you really want in a car, particularly given it's probably
>>> the
>>> 2nd largest purchase most people would make after their homes.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
>>>>> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.
>>>>
>>>> High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car
>>>> for
>>>> your money.
>>>
>>> No, if you were getting a lot of car then the value wouldn't depreciate
>>> that
>>> much. It drops so much because far fewer people want them.
>>
>> It's supply and demand where the demand hasn't changed, but supply has.
>> Lots of new EVs were bought post covid and now filtering into the market.
>
> yep, and seems like there isn't very much demand for the supply of used EVs
> or the price would be higher than it is.
>

They have exhausted the supply of overspending greeniacs many of whom regret
their EV purchase and will not be purchasing another one.

<https://www.carscoops.com/2024/06/new-study-finds-46-of-ev-buyers-in-the-us-
want-to-go-back-to-ice/>
--
pothead
Kamala Harris Word Salad Special Of The Day
Served Complete With Venn Diagram Dressing

On 9/30/24 12:31 PM, Chris wrote:
> pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>>
>> In NYS it's difficult to get insurance on a Tesla CyberTruck. I've seen a
>> couple of them, with NY tags so I guess it is possible though.
>
> Saw my first one in the flesh a couple of weeks. Jesus they're ugly.

They're a egocentric 'lookie at me!', just like the civilian Hummer was.

>> Personally if people want to buy an EV let them.
>> I really don't care one way or the other.
>> My objections are the government getting involved and effectively attempting to
>> limit my choice of buying an ICE vehicle.
>>
>> Why not let the market decide?
>
> Because it's not a market decision.

Well, it is and it isn't. An underlying element of the push for EVs is
the high rate of CO2-based climate change which threatens the stability
of the world economic systems. The policy decision on how to address
this has been to reduce CO2 emissions, of which a large segment is from
transportation.

Thus said, the options to shift use from ICE to EV are basically just a few:

1) Get people out of their personal vehicles by expanding mass transit.

2) Motivate people to buy EVs by making them cost-competitive with ICE.

3) Motivate people to buy EVs by making ICE more expensive.

For an example of how to implement #3, a tax on CO2 emissions, which
could be done "at the source" with higher taxes on gasoline.

So then, how does $9/gallon sound? FYI, this revenue could be used like
how Europe spends their fuel taxes: on mass transit infrastructure.

Needless to say, given a choice between $9/gallon for gas that visibly
comes out of your own pocket each week, versus a $7500 purchase credit
that is invisibly from taxes, I'm sure that most readers here when
forced to choose from this list will take option #2 over option #3.

-hh

"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6mbofj551f3td3so0jlcjnbk6cq0opv4go@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 06:28:09 -0000 (UTC), Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:vdejoo$2a9gl$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:vdb63v$1mr59$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was run at the end of last year. Since then the second hand
>>>>>> market
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> EVs is very active with many having price parity with ICEs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which means the value of the EV has declined more when compared to
>>>>> ICEs.
>>>>
>>>> Correct. There used to be shortage of EVs hence high second hand
>>>> prices.
>>>> Now there are many more so prices are dropping to more realistic levels
>>>
>>> ...and those realistic levels represent a massive depreciation in value.
>>>
>>> Not something you really want in a car, particularly given it's probably
>>> the
>>> 2nd largest purchase most people would make after their homes.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Given an EV has a much higher purchase price than ICEs.
>>>>> More depreciation = Less eagerness to buy a used EV.
>>>>
>>>> High depreciation is good for second hand market. You get a lot of car
>>>> for
>>>> your money.
>>>
>>> No, if you were getting a lot of car then the value wouldn't depreciate
>>> that
>>> much. It drops so much because far fewer people want them.
>>
>>It's supply and demand where the demand hasn't changed, but supply has.
>>Lots of new EVs were bought post covid and now filtering into the market.
>
> Bingo! There were just a few EV manufacturers so demand on them was high.
> Overnight the number of EV makers expanded exponentially until supply
> exceeded
> demand so sales *appeared* to have fallen greatly.

And yet a used EV loses much more of it's resale value than an ICE

Apparently the demand isn't there.