'Kamala’s $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'

<https://www.libertynation.com/kamalas-5-trillion-tax-hikes-mean-5-trillion-more-to-spend/>

'Vice President Kamala Harris has proposed approximately $5 trillion in
tax hikes over the next ten years, targeting wealthy Americans and rich
corporations. For a federal government forecast to register $2 trillion
in budget deficits during the same span, could this be the revenue boost
needed to fix America’s deteriorating fiscal health? The projections
show her policies are not even close to plugging the federal budget’s
gaping hole.

Kamala’s Tax Hikes – A Primer
The public has heard the same song-and-dance routine for the last 20
years: Washington must make the affluent pay their fair share by
imposing sizable tax hikes. Interestingly enough, the income tax shares
before and after the Trump-era tax cuts are quite a sight for
progressives. In 2021, the top 1% paid 45.8% of the nation’s income
taxes, up from 37.3% in 2016. Conversely, the bottom 50% paid just 2.3%
of the country’s income taxes after Trump’s landmark legislation, down
from 3% before Trump.

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Subscribe!
Still, the Democratic nominee says more needs to be done. The meat and
potatoes of her New Way Forward agenda consist of raising the corporate
income tax rate from 21% to 28%, increasing the corporate alternative
minimum tax (CAMT) rate from 15% to 21%, quadrupling the stock buyback
tax to 4%, boosting the top individual income tax rate to 39.6%, and
taxing long-term capital gains at 28% for incomes above $1 million. At
the same time, she is borrowing a few ideas from her opponents, such as
exempting tips from federal income taxes and expanding the child tax
credit.
Like former President Donald Trump’s policy proposals, many of the vice
president’s ideas must pass Congress. A Republican-led lower and upper
chamber decreases the odds that Harris’ initiatives will be approved and
make it to her desk to be signed. But let’s say Kamalanomics looks like
Monica Bellucci, and lawmakers on both sides fall in love with the
economic doctrine. How much revenue would these tax hikes generate?

Crunching the Dollars and Cents
Estimates vary by group. The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget,
for example, says the revenue effect from the Harris plan would bring in
about $900 billion from fiscal years 2026 to 2035. The rosiest
projections come from the Tax Foundation. The organization projects that
Harris’ revenue generators would raise as much as $4.143 trillion over
ten years, with much of the burden on corporations.

Here is a breakdown of the central Harris tax hikes, courtesy of the
research think tank:

28% Corporate Tax Hike: $882.8 billion
21% CAMT: $346.4 billion
4% Stock Buyback Tax: $79 billion
25% Unrealized Capital Gains Tax: $516.9 billion
6% Top Individual Income Tax Rate: $170.5 billion
28% Unrealized Capital Gains Tax at Death: $171.8 billion
When her other policy blueprints are inserted into the equation, such as
instituting housing tax credits, reinstating the American Rescue Plan’s
child tax credit, and exempting tips from federal income tax, net
revenues would be about $1.7 trillion.

Of course, like many other fiscal prognostications, the Trump and Harris
outlooks are based on expectations that the United States will not slip
into a recession, enter a major military conflict, or suffer another
health pandemic. If so, goodbye revenues and hello new spending.

Let’s say Harris does fill government coffers with more than $4
trillion, the middle-class tax cuts lead to hefty gains (hi, Laffer
Curve!), and the economic landscape and financial markets stay the same.
Everything is going well for the world’s largest economy. Based on
projections by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Watchdog (CBO),
these numbers would cover only some of the federal government’s interest
payments.

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Bored? Check This Out!
In June, the budget watchdog updated its ten-year budget and economic
outlook. The cumulative net interest charges will total roughly $13
trillion, according to the CBO. So, all the collections from the Harris
tax hikes would help service the national debt – predicted to top $50
trillion by 2034 – rather than balance the books. Consider this: In the
first 11 months of the current fiscal year, nearly half of all
individual income tax collections have been dedicated to interest
charges.

Even if interest payments were not included in the budget, tax hikes
from a potential Harris-Walz administration would still fail to address
the enormous imbalance. Over the next decade, cumulative outlays and
revenues are projected to be $72 trillion (not including interest costs)
and $63 trillion, respectively. This leaves a $9 trillion hole.

A Fiscal Mess
The deteriorating fiscal health is so severe that even $5 trillion in
tax hikes would be insufficient to pay America’s bills. It would be
absurd to think that federal spending would be reined in with an
injection of exorbitant receipts, meaning Uncle Sam’s financial
situation would only worsen. Eminent economist Milton Friedman had it
right when he wrote, “Government will spend whatever the tax system
raises, plus as much more as they can get away with.” Indeed, a $5
trillion tax increase means $5 trillion more to spend for Democrats on
the welfare state and Republicans on the military-industrial complex

If you have a medical emergency, stop reading, log off, and dial 911!

>'Kamala’s $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'

The average American would likely disagree; however, it terms of the
services we expect from our government, The US has the lowest tax rate
in the world. Since roughly 1974, the US budget has consistently
exceeded tax revenues... currently about 30% of government spending is
financed by selling treasury bonds, aka: debt. This year, we are 1.7
trillion in deficit, and it has been thus for about a decade; thus, 5
trillion over 10 years, at our current rate of spending, wouldn't even
come close to a balanced budget.

This isn't a partisan thing... *every* administration since Carter has
gladly embraced taking on more debt: "READ MY LIPS! NO NEW TAXES!"
And the voters seem to love it; however, they didn't want any across
the board spending cuts. (Everybody is in favor of cutting the other
guy's spending, but even the T-baggers, in all their abstemious glory,
wouldn't accept any spending cuts to *their* programs.)

We have inflation because everybody wants a bigger bowl of the already
watered-down soup.

--

I learned a long time ago that you can't just accept a tax increase...
once you say: "OK, we'll take one for the team," so to speak, you're
going to get the whole shit sandwich handed to you. At the end of the
day, the books must all balance, and an economic melt-down is coming.
And, like 1929, the margin call will cross international borders.
Until then, we'll keep sputtering along making America great again.

Whatever...

On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 08:52:06 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>Not sure about the 'wealth Americans' but "rich" corporations will simply
>pass the tax along to the consumer and will declare record profits.
>
>See here is how it works. based on industry a company will have a certain
>percentage they want to hit as net profit.
>
>So the government imposes this tax, which comes out of gross profits which
>then reduces net profits. So the company increases prices to cover the tax,
>but now that means gross profits are up.. but net profits are down.. so they
>increase the prices a bit more which adds a bit in taxes but not as much as
>it increases net profits until they get back to percentage of net profits
>they seek to maintain.
>
>So next year the corporations will pay the tax and at the same time announce
>record profit earnings because with more money coming in that means more
>money in the percentage that are net profits.
>
>In the end.. the American public takes the hit and corporations profit by
>being the middlemen.
>
>As far as the rich, the more you increase the tax rates the more they can
>afford to lose to avoid paying the tax. Because those losses are less than
>they would lose to the taxation.
>
>In the end.. it means inflation for the general public and a net reduction
>in effective wealth.
>
>After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now worth
>$2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the money
>did.
>
>That's why it takes $200 to buy what $20 use to pay.. has the average pay
>increase by 10x?
>
>I don't think so.
>
>Yet every time the government plays this shell game, you're willing to put
>your money down on the rigged game without even realizing you're only taxing
>yourself.. indirectly
>

That is an *excellent* primer on what's wrong with tariffs!

Still paying for Chernobyl.
"Forest Fires Deposit Decades-Old Radioactive Dust in Norway, Finland
Forest fires raging in northern Ukraine are blamed for the increased radiation
levels detected in the Arctic. Meanwhile Kyiv suffers the worst air quality in
the world on Friday."
<https://www.kyivpost.com/post/39284>

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 43 days.

09) Trump's White House interfered with the FBI investigation
into Kavanaugh's sexual assaults.
10) Trump is a felon, convicted on 34 counts of business fraud.

On 24 Sep 2024 14:59:33 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sep 24, 2024 at 6:52:06?AM MST, ""Scout"" wrote
><vcuiiv$380pa$7@dont-email.me>:
>
>>
>>
>> "John Smyth" <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:kn30fjp001spfs9tguk0nutksk1f84paec@4ax.com...
>>> 'Kamala's $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'
>>>
>>> <https://www.libertynation.com/kamalas-5-trillion-tax-hikes-mean-5-trillion-more-to-spend/>
>>>
>>> 'Vice President Kamala Harris has proposed approximately $5 trillion in
>>> tax hikes over the next ten years, targeting wealthy Americans and rich
>>> corporations. For a federal government forecast to register $2 trillion
>>> in budget deficits during the same span, could this be the revenue boost
>>> needed to fix America's deteriorating fiscal health? The projections
>>> show her policies are not even close to plugging the federal budget's
>>> gaping hole.
>>
>>
>> Not sure about the 'wealth Americans' but "rich" corporations will simply
>> pass the tax along to the consumer and will declare record profits.
>
>Economists do not agree that this will be a net-negative for consumers.

That's the right's reasoning for eliminating taxes on corporations. Consumers
wind up paying the tax anyway so why not tax them directly in the first place?

>Right wingers are so weird. Americans are not paid enough. That is horrible.
>Unions and Democrats want to raise wages. That will destroy America! So
>bizarre.

"Spell 'hypocrisy'".

"r-e-p-u-b-l-i-c-a-n"

"Russian Cities Cancel Pro-War Singer Shaman’s Shows Amid Low Ticket Sales –
Agentstvo"
<https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/20/russian-cities-cancel-pro-war-singer-shamans-shows-amid-low-ticket-sales-agentstvo-a86424>

"EU Plans to Loan Ukraine 35 bn Euros Backed by Russian Assets"
The EU will loan the money to Ukraine but it will be paid back out of interest
earned on frozen Russian assets in the west.
<https://www.kyivpost.com/post/39302>

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 43 days.

09) Trump's White House interfered with the FBI investigation
into Kavanaugh's sexual assaults.
10) Trump is a felon, convicted on 34 counts of business fraud.

Governor Swill wrote:
> That is an*excellent* primer on what's wrong

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party and a few dozen other socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path:
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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400

Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <j_carlson@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
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> No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
> is an important step to getting there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.

https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Governor Swill wrote:
> "Spell 'hypocrisy'".

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party and a few dozen other socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
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Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400

Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <j_carlson@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
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References: <v54h6j$39cuk$1@dont-email.me> <v54hrs$38mfs$18@dont-email.me>
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alt.politics.nationalism.white:10913 talk.politics.misc:1295918
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:3024985

> No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
> is an important step to getting there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.

https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> …
>
> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now worth
> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the money
> did.

Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of supply &
demand.

> That's why it takes $200 to buy what $20 use to pay.. has the average pay
> increase by 10x?

First, over how many years are you claiming that this “10x” inflation has
happened over?

Because I just plugged $20 into the Inflation Calculator to find out.

<https://www.usinflationcalculator.com>

Going back to find when a 10x claim becomes true, the calculation says it
was either in 1964 ($203.09) or 1965 ($199.87)…basically 60 years ago.

When were you born, Scout? Before 1965?

And just as appropriate, when did you become financially independent from
your parents? Was that also before 1965?

Because a typical lifetime working career is ~40 years, so 1984 is the
realistic benchmark. For that, $20 inflates to $60.60…that’s 3x. Nowhere
close to an alleged “10x.”

Now I don’t know about how you’ve done in your career, but when I compare
my salary from 40 years ago to my career field’s pay levels at that same
employer & level of experience, they have “kept up”.

-hh

On Sep 24, 2024 at 2:49:27 PM MST, "Governor Swill" wrote
<4rc6fjpfps91j8mtdbi78ukq362f4mvurg@4ax.com>:

> On 24 Sep 2024 14:59:33 GMT, Snit <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sep 24, 2024 at 6:52:06?AM MST, ""Scout"" wrote
>> <vcuiiv$380pa$7@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "John Smyth" <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kn30fjp001spfs9tguk0nutksk1f84paec@4ax.com...
>>>> 'Kamala's $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.libertynation.com/kamalas-5-trillion-tax-hikes-mean-5-trillion-more-to-spend/>
>>>>
>>>> 'Vice President Kamala Harris has proposed approximately $5 trillion in
>>>> tax hikes over the next ten years, targeting wealthy Americans and rich
>>>> corporations. For a federal government forecast to register $2 trillion
>>>> in budget deficits during the same span, could this be the revenue boost
>>>> needed to fix America's deteriorating fiscal health? The projections
>>>> show her policies are not even close to plugging the federal budget's
>>>> gaping hole.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure about the 'wealth Americans' but "rich" corporations will simply
>>> pass the tax along to the consumer and will declare record profits.
>>
>> Economists do not agree that this will be a net-negative for consumers.
>
> That's the right's reasoning for eliminating taxes on corporations. Consumers
> wind up paying the tax anyway so why not tax them directly in the first place?

If you tax consumers they have less money to spend on stuff... this hurt
corporations. So I guess no taxes?
>
>> Right wingers are so weird. Americans are not paid enough. That is horrible.
>> Unions and Democrats want to raise wages. That will destroy America! So
>> bizarre.
>
> "Spell 'hypocrisy'".
>
> "r-e-p-u-b-l-i-c-a-n"

Pretty much.
>
> "Russian Cities Cancel Pro-War Singer Shaman’s Shows Amid Low Ticket Sales –
> Agentstvo"
> <https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/09/20/russian-cities-cancel-pro-war-singer-shamans-shows-amid-low-ticket-sales-agentstvo-a86424>
>
> "EU Plans to Loan Ukraine 35 bn Euros Backed by Russian Assets"
> The EU will loan the money to Ukraine but it will be paid back out of interest
> earned on frozen Russian assets in the west.
> <https://www.kyivpost.com/post/39302>

--
Personal attacks from those who troll show their own insecurity. They cannot use reason to show the message to be wrong so they try to feel somehow superior by attacking the messenger.

They cling to their attacks and ignore the message time and time again.

"Snit" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:66f2d3d5$1$3828$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com...
> On Sep 24, 2024 at 6:52:06 AM MST, ""Scout"" wrote
> <vcuiiv$380pa$7@dont-email.me>:
>
>>
>>
>> "John Smyth" <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:kn30fjp001spfs9tguk0nutksk1f84paec@4ax.com...
>>> 'Kamala's $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'
>>>
>>> <https://www.libertynation.com/kamalas-5-trillion-tax-hikes-mean-5-trillion-more-to-spend/>
>>>
>>> 'Vice President Kamala Harris has proposed approximately $5 trillion in
>>> tax hikes over the next ten years, targeting wealthy Americans and rich
>>> corporations. For a federal government forecast to register $2 trillion
>>> in budget deficits during the same span, could this be the revenue boost
>>> needed to fix America's deteriorating fiscal health? The projections
>>> show her policies are not even close to plugging the federal budget's
>>> gaping hole.
>>
>>
>> Not sure about the 'wealth Americans' but "rich" corporations will simply
>> pass the tax along to the consumer and will declare record profits.
>
> Economists do not agree that this will be a net-negative for consumers.

Of course not, they support the views of whoever is paying them.

Meanwhile, the reality of economic is that corporations don't pay taxes,
they merely collect them and pass them along.

Dress it up however you like but the bottom line is they WILL maintain a
particular percentage of gross profit as their net profit.. Which is why
corporations always announce record profits after a tax hike on
corporations.

See.. to tax their profits, means that directly reduces net profits as that
is what you would pay such taxes with assuming everything else remained
constant.

However, it doesn't remain constant because when a corporation sees their
net profit decline, they increase revenue in the form of a price increase
for the product which can be a direct increase in the price, or a reduction
in the amount of the product for that price, or some combination.

Now consumers pay more than they did before. This increases gross profits
and thereby gross profits. However, it's NOT just the tax that drives the
price increase, because if it were just the tax then the net profit would
still be a lower percentage of gross profit (because you are now having to
spend more of the gross profit) so prices increase a bit more to push net
profit back up to where it should be for that industry. Which money goes
directly from the public to the company coffers,

In short companies become an arm of the IRS in collecting tax, and of
course, being paid to do so.

Bottom Line when taxing a 'rich' corporation all you are really doing is
taxing the customers (ie the people) using the corporation to do the
collection and further enriching the corporation.

That is basic ECON101 stuff and any economist who says otherwise is lying.
Oh, but they don't actually lie, most of the time they simply don't tell you
the part about how corporate taxes also drive up net profits for the
corporation making them even richer by taking yet more from the public.

Take a company... any company they generate an income of $100 Million per
year, of which $10 Million is the gross profit, after paying workers,
insurance and such they are left with $300,000 in net profit.

Now I'm going to tax the corporation 2% of that $10 Million or $200,000 or
2/3 of their net profits. Well now instead of having 3% of gross profits as
net profits they only have 1%.

So I ramp up prices producing $100.2 Million per year of which $10.2 million
is the gross profit of which I pay the $200,000 in taxes (where did the
extra $200,000 come from? The customers.

So now I did $100.2 Million in sales and have $10.2 million in gross profits
but at 3% I should be getting $306,000 in net profit.. so I jack the price
up a little bit more and produce enough in sales to get my net profit back
to 3%

The government gets their tax, I announce record profits, and the customers
paid for it all.. the tax and my getting more profit.

Then the government points out that we're making more money than ever and
want to increase corporate taxes more.. and the people sign on because I
clearly have too much money.

Soon people are paying the same price they use to pay for 16 ounces for 12
ounces in the same size package... or I keep the amount the same and raise
the prices... and people complain how corporations are profiting off their
misery.

When in reality the people are merely doing it to themselves.

That is the reality.

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>> …
>>
>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now worth
>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the money
>> did.
>
> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of supply
> &
> demand.

True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty consistent
over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand as more gold
is mined each year.

In article <vd17u1$3nhap$3@dont-email.me>,
me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net says...
>
> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
> news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
> > Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
> >> ?
> >>
> >> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now worth
> >> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the money
> >> did.
> >
> > Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of supply
> > &
> > demand.
>
> True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty consistent
> over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand as more gold
> is mined each year.
>
>

I remember panning and sluicing gold in Colorado when it was $300 an
ounce.

On 9/25/24 10:39 AM, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
> news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-
> huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>> …
>>>
>>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now
>>> worth
>>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the
>>> money
>>> did.
>>
>> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of
>> supply &
>> demand.
>
> True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty
> consistent over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand
> as more gold is mined each year.

A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.

Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half:
the break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good
chunk of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.

-hh

-hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.
>
> Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
> fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half:
> the break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good
> chunk of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
> breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.

Sometimes you make too much sense, hh. :-)

--
"Were there no women, men might live like gods."
-- Thomas Dekker

On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:33:31 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Snit" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:66f2d3d5$1$3828$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com...
>> On Sep 24, 2024 at 6:52:06?AM MST, ""Scout"" wrote
>> <vcuiiv$380pa$7@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "John Smyth" <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kn30fjp001spfs9tguk0nutksk1f84paec@4ax.com...
>>>> 'Kamala's $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.libertynation.com/kamalas-5-trillion-tax-hikes-mean-5-trillion-more-to-spend/>
>>>>
>>>> 'Vice President Kamala Harris has proposed approximately $5 trillion in
>>>> tax hikes over the next ten years, targeting wealthy Americans and rich
>>>> corporations. For a federal government forecast to register $2 trillion
>>>> in budget deficits during the same span, could this be the revenue boost
>>>> needed to fix America's deteriorating fiscal health? The projections
>>>> show her policies are not even close to plugging the federal budget's
>>>> gaping hole.
>>>
>>>
>>> Not sure about the 'wealth Americans' but "rich" corporations will simply
>>> pass the tax along to the consumer and will declare record profits.
>>
>> Economists do not agree that this will be a net-negative for consumers.
>
>Of course not, they support the views of whoever is paying them.
>
>Meanwhile, the reality of economic is that corporations don't pay taxes,
>they merely collect them and pass them along.

So we shouldn't tax businesses at all? Should we only tax consumers directly?

>Dress it up however you like but the bottom line is they WILL maintain a
>particular percentage of gross profit as their net profit.. Which is why
>corporations always announce record profits after a tax hike on
>corporations.

But Trump's tariffs are ok because the corporations will pay them out of their
profits.

>See.. to tax their profits, means that directly reduces net profits as that
>is what you would pay such taxes with assuming everything else remained
>constant.
>
>However, it doesn't remain constant because when a corporation sees their
>net profit decline, they increase revenue in the form of a price increase
>for the product which can be a direct increase in the price, or a reduction
>in the amount of the product for that price, or some combination.
>
>Now consumers pay more than they did before. This increases gross profits
>and thereby gross profits. However, it's NOT just the tax that drives the
>price increase, because if it were just the tax then the net profit would
>still be a lower percentage of gross profit (because you are now having to
>spend more of the gross profit) so prices increase a bit more to push net
>profit back up to where it should be for that industry. Which money goes
>directly from the public to the company coffers,
>
>In short companies become an arm of the IRS in collecting tax, and of
>course, being paid to do so.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

<laughs and points>

Such a tool! ROTFLMAO!

>Bottom Line when taxing a 'rich' corporation all you are really doing is
>taxing the customers (ie the people) using the corporation to do the
>collection and further enriching the corporation.
>
>That is basic ECON101 stuff and any economist who says otherwise is lying.
>Oh, but they don't actually lie, most of the time they simply don't tell you
>the part about how corporate taxes also drive up net profits for the
>corporation making them even richer by taking yet more from the public.
>
>Take a company... any company they generate an income of $100 Million per
>year, of which $10 Million is the gross profit, after paying workers,
>insurance and such they are left with $300,000 in net profit.
>
>Now I'm going to tax the corporation 2% of that $10 Million or $200,000 or
>2/3 of their net profits. Well now instead of having 3% of gross profits as
>net profits they only have 1%.
>
>So I ramp up prices producing $100.2 Million per year of which $10.2 million
>is the gross profit of which I pay the $200,000 in taxes (where did the
>extra $200,000 come from? The customers.
>
>So now I did $100.2 Million in sales and have $10.2 million in gross profits
>but at 3% I should be getting $306,000 in net profit.. so I jack the price
>up a little bit more and produce enough in sales to get my net profit back
>to 3%
>
>The government gets their tax, I announce record profits, and the customers
>paid for it all.. the tax and my getting more profit.
>
>Then the government points out that we're making more money than ever and
>want to increase corporate taxes more.. and the people sign on because I
>clearly have too much money.
>
>Soon people are paying the same price they use to pay for 16 ounces for 12
>ounces in the same size package... or I keep the amount the same and raise
>the prices... and people complain how corporations are profiting off their
>misery.
>
>When in reality the people are merely doing it to themselves.
>
>That is the reality.

The reality is that if business doesn't pay taxes, the entire burden gets
shifted to consumers who now have less to spend at businesses. And that means
less sales and less profits for business as well as shrunken packages for
consumers as business struggles to keep their numbers up.

Bet you hadn't thought of that, had you?

Contempt of court
<https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cXulOs6UMMY>

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 43 days.

11) Trump's failed pandemic response caused the needless
deaths of hundreds of thousands. By the time he left office,
three thousand were dying every day.

12) Trump's White House scrapped the emergency pandemic
playbook that had been assembled by the Obama administration.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:39:29 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>> …
>>>
>>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now worth
>>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the money
>>> did.
>>
>> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of supply
>> &
>> demand.
>
>True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty consistent
>over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand as more gold
>is mined each year.
>
>

Good luck paying for a loaf of bread with gold. I think you're a couple of
thousand years behind the times, Scout. Try to keep up.

Slowing the flow of illegals to America
<https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zLDIP4Bzh_4>

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 43 days.

11) Trump's failed pandemic response caused the needless
deaths of hundreds of thousands. By the time he left office,
three thousand were dying every day.

12) Trump's White House scrapped the emergency pandemic
playbook that had been assembled by the Obama administration.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 16:59:07 -0400, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>On 9/25/24 10:39 AM, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>> news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-
>> huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> …
>>>>
>>>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now
>>>> worth
>>>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the
>>>> money
>>>> did.
>>>
>>> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of
>>> supply &
>>> demand.
>>
>> True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty
>> consistent over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand
>> as more gold is mined each year.
>
>
>A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.
>
>Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
>fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half:
>the break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good
>chunk of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
>breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.

Even though Russia still has plenty of gushers and new enough resources not to
have to frack, they're still losing money on every barrel they sell. And what
they're selling it for is still more than Trump promises we'll be paying.

If there was ever an example of 'some folks will believe anything', it would be
the typical Trump voter.

Not in violation
<https://www.youtube.com/shorts/95gfgdEOLNY>

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 43 days.

11) Trump's failed pandemic response caused the needless
deaths of hundreds of thousands. By the time he left office,
three thousand were dying every day.

12) Trump's White House scrapped the emergency pandemic
playbook that had been assembled by the Obama administration.

On 9/25/24 6:45 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> -hh wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.
>>
>> Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
>> fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half:
>> the break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good
>> chunk of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
>> breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.
>
> Sometimes you make too much sense, hh. :-)
>

Thanks.

I do find it pretty incredible how the GOP is telling huge whoppers and
there's still some people who are stupid enough to believe them.

The other one from this week was the promise to lower groceries costs,
by getting rid of cheap labor and bans/tariffs on food imports.

(higher production costs + less supply + same demand) = prices go down?
Nope.

Plus folks forget that there's foods we don't grow domestically.
Two favorites are coffee & chocolate. The only regions where coffee &
cacao can be (& is) grown domestically is in Hawaii & Puerto Rico.

Genuine 100% Kona coffee costs ~$50/lb. If you find it cheaper, its
because its probably a fake, cut with cheap counterfeit (foreign) beans.

-hh

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:vd1tis$3lhbk$4@dont-email.me...
> On 9/25/24 10:39 AM, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>> news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-
>> huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> …
>>>>
>>>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now
>>>> worth
>>>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the
>>>> money
>>>> did.
>>>
>>> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of
>>> supply &
>>> demand.
>>
>> True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty consistent
>> over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand as more
>> gold is mined each year.
>
>
> A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.
>
> Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
> fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half: the
> break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good chunk
> of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
> breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.

And yet I know of no case were a gold mine was shut down because the price
of gold was too low.....

"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cic9fjd48df0l3pbrive83o3mt9nmrhqf4@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:33:31 -0500, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Snit" <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>news:66f2d3d5$1$3828$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com...
>>> On Sep 24, 2024 at 6:52:06?AM MST, ""Scout"" wrote
>>> <vcuiiv$380pa$7@dont-email.me>:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "John Smyth" <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:kn30fjp001spfs9tguk0nutksk1f84paec@4ax.com...
>>>>> 'Kamala's $5 Trillion Tax Hikes Mean $5 Trillion More to Spend'
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.libertynation.com/kamalas-5-trillion-tax-hikes-mean-5-trillion-more-to-spend/>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Vice President Kamala Harris has proposed approximately $5 trillion
>>>>> in
>>>>> tax hikes over the next ten years, targeting wealthy Americans and
>>>>> rich
>>>>> corporations. For a federal government forecast to register $2
>>>>> trillion
>>>>> in budget deficits during the same span, could this be the revenue
>>>>> boost
>>>>> needed to fix America's deteriorating fiscal health? The projections
>>>>> show her policies are not even close to plugging the federal budget's
>>>>> gaping hole.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not sure about the 'wealth Americans' but "rich" corporations will
>>>> simply
>>>> pass the tax along to the consumer and will declare record profits.
>>>
>>> Economists do not agree that this will be a net-negative for consumers.
>>
>>Of course not, they support the views of whoever is paying them.
>>
>>Meanwhile, the reality of economic is that corporations don't pay taxes,
>>they merely collect them and pass them along.
>
> So we shouldn't tax businesses at all? Should we only tax consumers
> directly?

Well, what benefit do you see from corporate taxes?

>>Dress it up however you like but the bottom line is they WILL maintain a
>>particular percentage of gross profit as their net profit.. Which is why
>>corporations always announce record profits after a tax hike on
>>corporations.
>
> But Trump's tariffs are ok because the corporations will pay them out of
> their
> profits.

Yes, but not for the reason you're imply. The actual tariff will still end
up being paid by the consumers that chose to pay the higher price, but
that's their choice to do so, or not do so.

What it does is increase or decrease the cost of import/exports thus helping
to govern international trade. If foreign products are taxed on import they
become less competitive and the jobs and wealth tend to stay in the US. Thus
by using tariffs we can encourage businesses to give more attention to the
US market than the international Market.

Right now we have net $1 Trillion dollars a year flowing out of our economy
into the economies of other countries. That is the current trade imbalance
we have. The wealth of the nation is flowing out of this country due to this
trade imbalance. Imagine what a Trillion dollars of jobs would look like....
then add in another Trillion dollars of jobs next year.. and the year after
that...

So do tariffs server a purpose? Absolutely, but make no mistake they are
ultimately paid by the consumer of the tariffed products. Corporations are
just the middlemen.

The reason we impose income tax on Corporations is because most people don't
see themselves as the one paying the tax, but this rich corporation. Then
blame the higher prices and reduced amounts on the 'evil' corporations
working to increase their profits. Which in truth they are.. because they
have to pay the tax somehow and maintain their net profit percentage for
investors.

In the end.. any tax ends up being paid by the people doing the work.

On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 09:47:14 -0500, "Scout" wrote:
>"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote
>> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:33:31 -0500, "Scout" wrote:
<snip>
>>>Meanwhile, the reality of economic is that corporations don't pay taxes,
>>>they merely collect them and pass them along.
>>
>> So we shouldn't tax businesses at all? Should we only tax consumers
>> directly?
>
>Well, what benefit do you see from corporate taxes?

What benefit do you see from personal taxes?

>>>Dress it up however you like but the bottom line is they WILL maintain a
>>>particular percentage of gross profit as their net profit.. Which is why
>>>corporations always announce record profits after a tax hike on
>>>corporations.
>>
>> But Trump's tariffs are ok because the corporations will pay them out of
>> their profits.
>
>Yes, but not for the reason you're imply.

I was being sarcastic. The tariff's are nothing more than a tax increase on
Americans that will affect middle and lower class families disproportionately.

>The actual tariff will still end
>up being paid by the consumers that chose to pay the higher price, but
>that's their choice to do so, or not do so.

Yes, they can choose not to eat, wear clothes or buy tires.

Take your head out of your ass, dude.

>What it does is increase or decrease the cost of import/exports thus helping
>to govern international trade.

What it does is drive inflation and increase the tax burden on working people.

>If foreign products are taxed on import they
>become less competitive and the jobs and wealth tend to stay in the US.

And what about the tariffs other nations charge or our goods thus reducing our
exports and costing us jobs, not to mention gutting American market dominance.

>Thus
>by using tariffs we can encourage businesses to give more attention to the
>US market than the international Market.

No, actually, you can't. Tariffs only encourage them to go out of business if
they try to absorb the tariff themselves.

Again, you keep forgetting that other nations will hit US with tariffs.

Remember that after Trump's first round of Chinese tariffs, they put a tariff on
US soybeans. That tariff reduced soybean exports enough that the administration
had to buy the farmers' surplus to keep them from bankrupting and to salvage
their votes. That tariff situation is a big chunk of why Trump's lead in Iowa
is only 4 points.

>Right now we have net $1 Trillion dollars a year flowing out of our economy
>into the economies of other countries. That is the current trade imbalance
>we have. The wealth of the nation is flowing out of this country due to this
>trade imbalance. Imagine what a Trillion dollars of jobs would look like....
>then add in another Trillion dollars of jobs next year.. and the year after
>that...

This is perfectly in accordance with our role as the sole source of the globe's
most popular trading currency. That position also advantages us since we
control that money supply. Access to American markets is a powerful diplomatic
tool.

>So do tariffs server a purpose? Absolutely, but make no mistake they are
>ultimately paid by the consumer of the tariffed products. Corporations are
>just the middlemen.

Precisely. It's a regressive tax hike on the middle class. Just the thing to
subsidize tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations.

>The reason we impose income tax on Corporations is because most people don't
>see themselves as the one paying the tax, but this rich corporation.

We impose taxes on corporations and companies because they are individual
entities. They get great advantage from that status.

>Then
>blame the higher prices and reduced amounts on the 'evil' corporations
>working to increase their profits. Which in truth they are.. because they
>have to pay the tax somehow and maintain their net profit percentage for
>investors.

Then why saddle them with even more taxes in the form of tariffs?

>In the end.. any tax ends up being paid by the people doing the work.

And ... ?

This is corporate America:
After you help me out, I'm going to kick you in the teeth.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/k9APLWBHBxo

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 40 days.

13) Trump disbanded the National Security Council's
pandemic response team.

14) Trump repeatedly lied about the danger of covid
saying it was no worse than the flue or that it would
go away on its own.

But behind closed doors, Trump admitted it was deadly.

On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 09:29:56 -0500, "Scout"
<me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:

>
>
>"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>news:vd1tis$3lhbk$4@dont-email.me...
>> On 9/25/24 10:39 AM, Scout wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-
>>> huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>> …
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now
>>>>> worth
>>>>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the
>>>>> money
>>>>> did.
>>>>
>>>> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of
>>>> supply &
>>>> demand.
>>>
>>> True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty consistent
>>> over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand as more
>>> gold is mined each year.
>>
>>
>> A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.
>>
>> Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
>> fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half: the
>> break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good chunk
>> of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
>> breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.
>
>And yet I know of no case were a gold mine was shut down because the price
>of gold was too low.....
>
>

Because the price of gold has always been higher than the cost of extraction.

Seriously, if you think Trump is going to magically make oil less than $50 bbl
and gasoline less than $2 gal, you need to stop eating mushrooms on your pizza.
Like so many Magas, your grasp of reality and how things really work is tenuous
at best.

Smoot Hawley proved tariffs are counter productive and now you think oil prices
can drop and drop and drop and the flow will never stop?

'shrooms, man.

Please your boss, not your customer.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/m6vkf0uYLeM

--

Today's two reasons to not vote for Trump in 40 days.

13) Trump disbanded the National Security Council's
pandemic response team.

14) Trump repeatedly lied about the danger of covid
saying it was no worse than the flue or that it would
go away on its own.

But behind closed doors, Trump admitted it was deadly.

Governor Swill wrote:
> Take your head out of your ass, dude.

Stop making public death threats then.

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party and a few dozen other socks wrote:

@Multiple death threats against Trump@
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path:
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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400

Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <j_carlson@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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> No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
> is an important step to getting there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.

https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Governor Swill wrote:
> 'shrooms, man.
>
> Please your boss,

Drug talk from Rudey.

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party and a few dozen other socks wrote:

@Multiple death threats against Trump@
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
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Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
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Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400

Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <j_carlson@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
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References: <v54h6j$39cuk$1@dont-email.me> <v54hrs$38mfs$18@dont-email.me>
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alt.politics.nationalism.white:10913 talk.politics.misc:1295918
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:3024985

> No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
> is an important step to getting there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.

https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rv3bfjt7rejvq2vptjmntt4er08l13njiu@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 09:47:14 -0500, "Scout" wrote:
>>"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote
>>> On Wed, 25 Sep 2024 09:33:31 -0500, "Scout" wrote:
> <snip>
>>>>Meanwhile, the reality of economic is that corporations don't pay taxes,
>>>>they merely collect them and pass them along.
>>>
>>> So we shouldn't tax businesses at all? Should we only tax consumers
>>> directly?
>>
>>Well, what benefit do you see from corporate taxes?

I accept your answer as 'none'

>
> What benefit do you see from personal taxes?

Pays for the necessary functions of government... and sadly a lot of totally
unnecessary functions.

>>>>Dress it up however you like but the bottom line is they WILL maintain a
>>>>particular percentage of gross profit as their net profit.. Which is why
>>>>corporations always announce record profits after a tax hike on
>>>>corporations.
>>>
>>> But Trump's tariffs are ok because the corporations will pay them out of
>>> their profits.
>>
>>Yes, but not for the reason you're imply.
>
> I was being sarcastic. The tariff's are nothing more than a tax increase
> on
> Americans that will affect middle and lower class families
> disproportionately.

Agreed, but as noted it tends, not I said tends, to encourage or discourage
international trade into/out of the country. That can be of economic
benefits depending on the directionality of the net trade and the products
in that trade.

>
>>The actual tariff will still end
>>up being paid by the consumers that chose to pay the higher price, but
>>that's their choice to do so, or not do so.
>
> Yes, they can choose not to eat, wear clothes or buy tires.

Only if they are foreign made, or foreign materials. Then they tends towards
buying domestic which is better for our own economy.

> Take your head out of your ass, dude.

It is, you mistake the way they are currently taxing with the way it should
be done. Today, it's about getting the government more money rather than
what is best for the nation.

Why because they get a say in how that money is used and often end up
padding their own pockets in the process. How else do you think a freshman
Senator becomes a millionaire within an average of their first 2 years in
office?

It certainly isn't from their official pay.

>>What it does is increase or decrease the cost of import/exports thus
>>helping
>>to govern international trade.
>
> What it does is drive inflation and increase the tax burden on working
> people.

It can do that as well. Just as almost anything can be misused to cause
harm. Which is why I think the power to change taxation should be removed
from government.

>>If foreign products are taxed on import they
>>become less competitive and the jobs and wealth tend to stay in the US.
>
> And what about the tariffs other nations charge or our goods thus reducing
> our
> exports and costing us jobs, not to mention gutting American market
> dominance.

Yep, it works in both ways.

>>Thus
>>by using tariffs we can encourage businesses to give more attention to the
>>US market than the international Market.
>
> No, actually, you can't. Tariffs only encourage them to go out of
> business if
> they try to absorb the tariff themselves.

Yep, and thus works to make the domestic market or foreign market more
attractive thus influencing international trade.. hopefully in a manner
favorable for your country.

>
> Again, you keep forgetting that other nations will hit US with tariffs.

Yep, and thus we have to consider who, how, much and their reactions.

> Remember that after Trump's first round of Chinese tariffs, they put a
> tariff on
> US soybeans. That tariff reduced soybean exports enough that the
> administration
> had to buy the farmers' surplus to keep them from bankrupting and to
> salvage
> their votes. That tariff situation is a big chunk of why Trump's lead in
> Iowa
> is only 4 points.

Yep, which is why you shouldn't make large and sweeping policy changes like
that until you know what the reaction is going to be.

>
>>Right now we have net $1 Trillion dollars a year flowing out of our
>>economy
>>into the economies of other countries. That is the current trade imbalance
>>we have. The wealth of the nation is flowing out of this country due to
>>this
>>trade imbalance. Imagine what a Trillion dollars of jobs would look
>>like....
>>then add in another Trillion dollars of jobs next year.. and the year
>>after
>>that...
>
> This is perfectly in accordance with our role as the sole source of the
> globe's
> most popular trading currency.

Currently, but our role in that is coming under more and more pressure each
year.
After all, as the government devalues the dollar.. it's not nearly as
attractive as it once was, and as the world sees the handwriting on the
wall, they don't want to be the last person holding it when our economic
ship goes over the falls.

That position also advantages us since we
> control that money supply. Access to American markets is a powerful
> diplomatic
> tool.

Yep, and slowly we have been eroding that faith and once the world starts to
cut loss of that.. it's going to go quick and all the promises in the world
won't matter then.

>>So do tariffs server a purpose? Absolutely, but make no mistake they are
>>ultimately paid by the consumer of the tariffed products. Corporations are
>>just the middlemen.
>
> Precisely. It's a regressive tax hike on the middle class. Just the
> thing to
> subsidize tax cuts on the wealthy and corporations.

Well, since their taxes end up being collected from us anyway.. why not?

Now we could make the wealthy pay if we really wanted to, but the wealthy
pay enough to politicians so they don't really do it. Oh, they say they are,
and they may actually impose it, but they always leave escape routes that
the rich can take advantage of to evade the tax. Many most people could use
if they only knew of them and used them.

>>The reason we impose income tax on Corporations is because most people
>>don't
>>see themselves as the one paying the tax, but this rich corporation.
>
> We impose taxes on corporations and companies because they are individual
> entities. They get great advantage from that status.

Legally they are entities, but in practice they just collect the tax from
their customers, add some from themselves and declare record profits after
each tax hike.

Why? Industries over time have found that if you are in industry X the ideal
net profit ratio is X%

We tax corporations, that comes out of gross profits, which as a added cost
means it reduces net profits by that amount.. reducing the desired net
profit ratio.

So they figure ways to cut costs or increase prices... Which they do. The
company expands gross profits to pay the tax, but just increasing it by the
amount of the tax, isn't enough, because that still won't get you back to X%
of net profit. So you increase revenue some more until Net profits are back
at the ideal percentage for that industry. But since Total profits are now
up.. the company announces Record profits after the tax was imposed.

In effect the companies are paying themselves to collect the tax for the
government. We are the ones paying it through higher prices for what we get.

You see it in higher prices and 'sinkflation' in products as 16oz becomes
14oz then 12oz....

>>Then
>>blame the higher prices and reduced amounts on the 'evil' corporations
>>working to increase their profits. Which in truth they are.. because they
>>have to pay the tax somehow and maintain their net profit percentage for
>>investors.
>
> Then why saddle them with even more taxes in the form of tariffs?

Simple, the tariffs are to influence behavior by artificially increasing
prices on incoming or outgoing classes of good to impact how those products
perform in your local economy.

>
>>In the end.. any tax ends up being paid by the people doing the work.
>
> And ... ?

And people tend towards the less expensive option, which was the purpose of
the tariff. To influence people's purchasing options.

"Governor Swill" <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kr4bfj556hvteue4ueivk47m9p6pk466sv@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 09:29:56 -0500, "Scout"
> <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>>news:vd1tis$3lhbk$4@dont-email.me...
>>> On 9/25/24 10:39 AM, Scout wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1752535673.748907507.964409.recscuba_google-
>>>> huntzinger.com@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>> .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After all, why do you think an ounce of gold I paid $280 for is now
>>>>>> worth
>>>>>> $2,700. It wasn't because the gold changed in value, but rather the
>>>>>> money
>>>>>> did.
>>>>>
>>>>> Part of it, sure, but gold is still a commodity driven by rules of
>>>>> supply &
>>>>> demand.
>>>>
>>>> True, but oddly enough the gold price of things remains pretty
>>>> consistent
>>>> over time because the supply pretty much keeps up with demand as more
>>>> gold is mined each year.
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of that has more to do with the economics of extraction.
>>>
>>> Its also why we're not going to see <$50/barrel oil in a sustainable
>>> fashion, despite some politician's promises to cut the price in half:
>>> the
>>> break even point on the costs of extraction & refinement for a good
>>> chunk
>>> of current oil field supply is ~$55/bbl. So if prices dip below
>>> breakeven, they'll stop pumping instead of actively losing money.
>>
>>And yet I know of no case were a gold mine was shut down because the price
>>of gold was too low.....
>>
>>
>
> Because the price of gold has always been higher than the cost of
> extraction.

Exactly..