On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:47:14 +0000, RonB wrote:

> On 2024-05-18, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 19:41:27 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> Farley Flud wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> Unless you are a totally subjugated distro lackey, you likely already
>>>> use the great FOSS image viewer Geeqie:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.geeqie.org/
>>>>
>>>> But I am so terribly sorry. The fantastic and unparalleled Geeqie is
>>>> NOT available for that piece-of-shit OS known as Microslop Winblows.
>>>>
>>>> Like ALL great software, Geeqie is Unix/Linux/BSD only.
>>>
>>> At that site, it says it can be run on Windows 11.
>>>
>>>> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>>>
>>> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>>>
>>> The Arch Linux link don't work. Pacman doesn't see geegle or
>>> extra/geegle.
>>> Too lazy to look further right now.
>>
>> Funny enough, I notice that Pan, of all things, is not included in the
>> Fedora repositories. What the heck is that all about?
>
> It looks like it's been "retired." Apparently whoever was maintaining it
> for Fedora gave up on it. But you can still download the version for
> Fedora 38. I'm guessing it would work in Fedora 40. Can't say for sure,
> I don't know that much about Fedora.

Unfortunately, this is a common problem for decent open-source programs.
Granted, Pan is not likely to be as popular as something like Handbrake,
but some of us are just incompatible with censored forums and prefer
Usenet.

On Sun, 19 May 2024 02:07:41 +0000, RonB wrote:

> On 2024-05-18, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-18, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 19:41:27 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Farley Flud wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> Unless you are a totally subjugated distro lackey, you likely
>>>>> already use the great FOSS image viewer Geeqie:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.geeqie.org/
>>>>>
>>>>> But I am so terribly sorry. The fantastic and unparalleled Geeqie
>>>>> is NOT available for that piece-of-shit OS known as Microslop
>>>>> Winblows.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like ALL great software, Geeqie is Unix/Linux/BSD only.
>>>>
>>>> At that site, it says it can be run on Windows 11.
>>>>
>>>>> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>>>>
>>>> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!
>>>>
>>>> The Arch Linux link don't work. Pacman doesn't see geegle or
>>>> extra/geegle.
>>>> Too lazy to look further right now.
>>>
>>> Funny enough, I notice that Pan, of all things, is not included in the
>>> Fedora repositories. What the heck is that all about?
>>
>> It looks like it's been "retired." Apparently whoever was maintaining
>> it for Fedora gave up on it. But you can still download the version for
>> Fedora 38. I'm guessing it would work in Fedora 40. Can't say for sure,
>> I don't know that much about Fedora.
>
> Well, scratch that. I tried Pan on Fedora 39 and it failed to install. I
> guess that's one issue with a "cutting edge" distribution that's not as
> accute when using a long term (stable) distribution.

The only reason I care about Fedora is because the people maintaining the
asusctl project are exclusive to Fedora and SUSE. They used to provide
instructions on how to install their software on Ubuntu and Mint, but
they've given up on it entirely. I don't like Fedora, and I don't think I
ever will no matter how much people tell me it's great. I much prefer
Ubuntu-based, but I don't want this laptop's battery to be charged to 100%
considering how damaging it is. Thus, asusctl is a necessity.

On 19 May 2024 02:53:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:47:14 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>
>> It looks like it's been "retired." Apparently whoever was maintaining it
>> for Fedora gave up on it. But you can still download the version for
>> Fedora 38. I'm guessing it would work in Fedora 40. Can't say for sure,
>> I don't know that much about Fedora.
>
>On Fedora 40 'sudo dnf install pan' pleads ignorance about pan. I think
>you can install SABnzbd but the NZB stuff is of no interest to me. It's
>not the machine I do usenet on but I do have slrn set up as a backup.
>
>I liked KNode but that's history also.

Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Sun, 19 May 2024 08:14:49 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian
<sebastian@here.com.invalid> wrote:

>Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 09:01:53 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>> Funny enough, I notice that Pan, of all things, is not included in the
>>>> Fedora repositories. What the heck is that all about?
>>>
>>> Fedora panned it! (pun intended!)
>>
>> They basically went out of their way to retire it. Do they also consider
>> Usenet to be dead?
>
>Red Hat is the main company in the Linux community insisting that everything
>has to change in order to make Linux "modern." Systemd was from them, and
>they also have a hand in Wayland, and usrmerge was their idea. They also have
>radical ideas that haven't been forced on the entire Linux community (yet),
>such as read-only rootfs, and image-based updates.
>
>They always export their radical ideas to all other distros, and if this
>extends to small details like the availability of newsreaders, I'd expect
>to see them vanish from Debian and other distros before too long.

I have no idea why people have embraced the high censorship and wokism
of other online forums. As prone to spam as Usenet is, the almost
complete lack of censorship is what makes this place interesting.
Sure, you have to constantly update your filters to make sure that
every one of Larry Pietraskiewicz's personalities is removed and that
crossposts are automatically deleted, but that's trivial.

On 19 May 2024 11:22:50 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr>
wrote:

>Le 19-05-2024, Sebastian <sebastian@here.com.invalid> a écrit :
>>
>> Red Hat is the main company in the Linux community insisting that everything
>> has to change in order to make Linux "modern."
>
>They should start by providing up to date distros instead of obsolete by
>design distros. Then I could start considering this claim seriously.
>
>> Systemd was from them, and
>> they also have a hand in Wayland, and usrmerge was their idea. They also have
>> radical ideas that haven't been forced on the entire Linux community (yet),
>> such as read-only rootfs, and image-based updates.
>
>Their radical ideas haven't been forced on the entire Linux community.
>
>For a start, when Poettering came with the idea of systemd, Red Hat, his
>employer at the time told him it was bad. And so Poettering did it on
>his own time and came back to his employer with the working product. And
>only at this time did Red Hat decided to use it. And the other distros
>decided to use it because it was good. Ubuntu tried to remove SysVInit
>with upstart and were happy to switch to systemd when it was possible.
>
>For the archlinux community, the reasons are listed there:
><https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/4lzxs3/comment/d3rhxlc/?context=3>
>It was not imposed by Read Hat it was a welcome change.
>
>So stop believing the crap displayed by FR/DG/NV/LP/whatever and learn
>what you are talking. Systemd wasn't a Red Hat idea and systemd wasn't
>forced on any distro, it was happily embraced by the distros.

Thank you for this history lesson.

>> They always export their radical ideas to all other distros,
>
>Nonsense. They never imposed anything. Other embraced their ideas or not
>but there is no imposition.
>
>> and if this extends to small details like the availability of
>> newsreaders, I'd expect to see them vanish from Debian and other
>> distros before too long.
>
>Nonsense. Once again. There is no relation between a radical idea and
>the availability of a newsreader in the list of packages. If there is no
>more use for a package, nobody will want to take care of it and it will
>be removed. It's just that simple. And as usenet is a dying media, there
>will be less and less use for a newsreader. There is no such thing as
>Red Hat telling other distros which packages they must manage and which
>one they shouldn't.

Usenet readers are likely of little interest to people nowadays who
have not only become accustomed to censorship, but embraced it and the
values stemming from it. I can't stand these people. Usenet 4 life.

On 2024-05-19, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 19 May 2024 02:53:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:47:14 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>
>>> It looks like it's been "retired." Apparently whoever was maintaining it
>>> for Fedora gave up on it. But you can still download the version for
>>> Fedora 38. I'm guessing it would work in Fedora 40. Can't say for sure,
>>> I don't know that much about Fedora.
>>
>>On Fedora 40 'sudo dnf install pan' pleads ignorance about pan. I think
>>you can install SABnzbd but the NZB stuff is of no interest to me. It's
>>not the machine I do usenet on but I do have slrn set up as a backup.
>>
>>I liked KNode but that's history also.
>
> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.

It looks like Claws-Mail is still available for Fedora. I don't know how
good it is, but it does have GUI a interface.

https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/claws-mail

https://www.claws-mail.org/

I installed v4.2.0 on Fedora 39 with "sudo dnf install claws-mail"

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> Le 18-05-2024, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
>> On Sat, 18 May 2024 10:55:40 -0400, Joel wrote:
>>
>>> Xviewer is the default with Mint, it works fine for basic opening of an
>>> image, I dunno what all Larry was insinuating would be done with his
>>> brokenware.
>>
>> Omage Viewer appears to be the Ubuntu default, Gwenview of the Fedora KDE
>> spin. They work.
>
> If the purpose is only to look at an image, feh is great. It's really
> fast. When I need to use Gimp, I can see how Gimp is very slow to launch
> compared with feh.

Also useful to set wallpaper on all monitors at once:

feh --bg-scale --randomize --recursive ~/.local/wallpapers/ &

I also map it to the Super-Z key-sequence to change quickly.

--
Don't get stuck in a closet -- wear yourself out.

On Sun, 19 May 2024 12:18:21 -0000 (UTC), RonB
<ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 2024-05-19, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 19 May 2024 02:53:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 18 May 2024 23:47:14 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> It looks like it's been "retired." Apparently whoever was maintaining it
>>>> for Fedora gave up on it. But you can still download the version for
>>>> Fedora 38. I'm guessing it would work in Fedora 40. Can't say for sure,
>>>> I don't know that much about Fedora.
>>>
>>>On Fedora 40 'sudo dnf install pan' pleads ignorance about pan. I think
>>>you can install SABnzbd but the NZB stuff is of no interest to me. It's
>>>not the machine I do usenet on but I do have slrn set up as a backup.
>>>
>>>I liked KNode but that's history also.
>>
>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>
>It looks like Claws-Mail is still available for Fedora. I don't know how
>good it is, but it does have GUI a interface.
>
>https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/claws-mail
>
>https://www.claws-mail.org/
>
>I installed v4.2.0 on Fedora 39 with "sudo dnf install claws-mail"

I recall trying it out a while back and feeling like I was a
14-year-old discovering Internet for the first time agian. I get the
impression that was the last time it was updated too.

On 5/19/2024 7:57 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Usenet 4 life.

Vile Usenet is dead, long live vile Usenet!

On Sun, 19 May 2024 11:49:49 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/19/2024 7:57 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Usenet 4 life.
>
>
> Vile Usenet is dead, long live vile Usenet!
>

Usenet is your only fucking hope.

Anywhere else, your totally ignorant, tendentious, and useless
posts would be summarily rejected.

Thus, your refrain should be: "Thanks Usenet, for saving my
worthless, bullshit posts from certain annihilation."

On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.

So far Pan is alive and well on Ubuntu.

On 19 May 2024 19:57:40 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>
>So far Pan is alive and well on Ubuntu.

I wonder why Ubuntu would support the package but Fedora wouldn't.

On Sun, 19 May 2024 16:33:54 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 19 May 2024 19:57:40 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>>
>>So far Pan is alive and well on Ubuntu.
>
> I wonder why Ubuntu would support the package but Fedora wouldn't.

Maybe because Red Hat is all about the latest, greatest.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan/-/blob/master/NEWS?ref_type=heads

Pan dropped Gtk2 in 2022 after moving to Gtk3. However Gtk4 is another
breaking change and I don't see anything about going to Gtk4

Fedora 40 uses Gnome 46 which is buit on Gtk4. Ubuntu 22.04 uses Gnome 42
but 24.04 uses Gnome 46. 24.10 will be Gnome 47 so I don't know if Pan
will be available on Ubuntu 24. I'm not planning an upgrade anytime soon
since it's supported until 2027.

Debian 12 uses Gnome 43. My Debian 11 box is Xfce so I assume Pan isn't
available on it either.

On 5/19/2024 2:12 PM, Nux Vomica wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2024 11:49:49 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2024 7:57 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Usenet 4 life.
>>
>>
>> Vile Usenet is dead, long live vile Usenet!
>>
>
> Usenet is your only fucking hope.
>
> Anywhere else, your totally ignorant, tendentious, and useless
> posts would be summarily rejected.
>
> Thus, your refrain should be: "Thanks Usenet, for saving my
> worthless, bullshit posts from certain annihilation."

PKB. As if your deranged lies, bragging, technical idiocy and potty
mouth would be tolerated anywhere but on an unmoderated backwater.

On 19 May 2024 22:50:46 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2024 16:33:54 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 19 May 2024 19:57:40 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>>>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>>>
>>>So far Pan is alive and well on Ubuntu.
>>
>> I wonder why Ubuntu would support the package but Fedora wouldn't.
>
>Maybe because Red Hat is all about the latest, greatest.
>
>https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan/-/blob/master/NEWS?ref_type=heads
>
>Pan dropped Gtk2 in 2022 after moving to Gtk3. However Gtk4 is another
>breaking change and I don't see anything about going to Gtk4
>
>Fedora 40 uses Gnome 46 which is buit on Gtk4. Ubuntu 22.04 uses Gnome 42
>but 24.04 uses Gnome 46. 24.10 will be Gnome 47 so I don't know if Pan
>will be available on Ubuntu 24. I'm not planning an upgrade anytime soon
>since it's supported until 2027.
>
>Debian 12 uses Gnome 43. My Debian 11 box is Xfce so I assume Pan isn't
>available on it either.

It's too bad that the asusctl people are limiting me to Fedora. I
really don't want to use it.

On 19 May 2024 19:57:40 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<lav3tiFjedmU4@mid.individual.net>:

> On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>
> So far Pan is alive and well on Ubuntu.

You can also build the latest from the git repo:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/pan

It is being actively maintained.

--
-v

On 19 May 2024 10:54:06 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> If the purpose is only to look at an image, feh is great. It's really
> fast. When I need to use Gimp, I can see how Gimp is very slow to launch
> compared with feh.

GIMP has some nice analysis tools, though.

On 19 May 2024 11:27:51 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> The only reason I care about Fedora is because the people maintaining
> the asusctl project are exclusive to Fedora and SUSE. They used to
> provide instructions on how to install their software on Ubuntu and
> Mint, but they've given up on it entirely.

Looking at the readme <https://gitlab.com/asus-linux/asusctl>, it’s only
the building instructions that are distro-specific, and that is only the
installation of dependencies.

If you want prebuilt packages, and they are only available in RPM format,
there is a way to install those on Debian and derivatives, using alien.

On Tue, 21 May 2024 02:02:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>On 19 May 2024 11:27:51 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> The only reason I care about Fedora is because the people maintaining
>> the asusctl project are exclusive to Fedora and SUSE. They used to
>> provide instructions on how to install their software on Ubuntu and
>> Mint, but they've given up on it entirely.
>
>Looking at the readme <https://gitlab.com/asus-linux/asusctl>, it’s only
>the building instructions that are distro-specific, and that is only the
>installation of dependencies.
>
>If you want prebuilt packages, and they are only available in RPM format,
>there is a way to install those on Debian and derivatives, using alien.

I'm aware, and I've used alien in the past to convert a .deb of
msi-keyboard to .rpm, to use in openSUSE. Considering how crucial that
utility is, I would rather have it be completely supported than hope
that it will transform and work correctly on a distribution that it
wasn't designed for.

On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.

Claws Mail still has NNTP support.

On Tue, 21 May 2024 22:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v2j5m1$pinq$4@dont-email.me>:

> On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>
> Claws Mail still has NNTP support.

So does Pan, which is still under active development, despite
Fedora's failings.

(Andrzej is prone to making statements that may or may not
align with reality...YMMV, caveat emptor.)

--
-v

On Tue, 21 May 2024 22:23:50 -0000 (UTC), vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
wrote:

>On Tue, 21 May 2024 22:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v2j5m1$pinq$4@dont-email.me>:
>
>> On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>>
>> Claws Mail still has NNTP support.
>
>So does Pan, which is still under active development, despite
>Fedora's failings.
>
>(Andrzej is prone to making statements that may or may not
>align with reality...YMMV, caveat emptor.)

Yet another pointless insult from Scott. Nobody uses Claws Mail, so I
might be forgiven for not being aware that it has NNTP support.

On Tue, 21 May 2024 22:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>
>Claws Mail still has NNTP support.

I'll stick to Forte Agent for now, but I will be the first to admit
that its filtering options aren't too good. I have no idea if it's
even possible to delete the crossposted crap in this program.

On Tue, 21 May 2024 20:34:14 -0400, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote
in <aafq4jlghjlc5ri5arkv9etvek17m243m7@4ax.com>:

> On Tue, 21 May 2024 22:23:50 -0000 (UTC), vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2024 22:02:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
>><ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v2j5m1$pinq$4@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On Sun, 19 May 2024 07:51:25 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Even the free software community considers Usenet to be dead. I guess
>>>> it's Thunderbird or nothing if you want a GUI.
>>>
>>> Claws Mail still has NNTP support.
>>
>>So does Pan, which is still under active development, despite
>>Fedora's failings.
>>
>>(Andrzej is prone to making statements that may or may not
>>align with reality...YMMV, caveat emptor.)
>
> Yet another pointless insult from Scott. Nobody uses Claws Mail, so I
> might be forgiven for not being aware that it has NNTP support.

How is that an insult?

Meanwhile, "Even the free software community considers
Usenet to be dead" is a borderline insult to Usenet
denizens everywhere -- besides being untrue, and fair
game for criticism.

--
-v

On Sun, 19 May 2024 08:14:49 -0000 (UTC), Sebastian wrote:

> Red Hat is the main company in the Linux community ...

Red Hat is only a small part of the Linux community. Consider that most
distros are Debian, not Red Hat, derivatives.

> They always export their radical ideas to all other distros ...

Feel free to explain how exactly the business model for this would work.