On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:09:43 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:10:54 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 05:45:03 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 14 May 2024 01:02:56 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 May 2024 00:42:29 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 14 May 2024 00:11:11 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clearly you have never used the stuff.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, actually, you are depending crucially on it right now, without
>>>>>>>> realizing it. Without Open Source, there would be no Internet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We both know that's not true. Without open-source, there would have
>>>>>>> been an alternative based on UNIX or Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those alternatives existed, way back when. Before the Internet,
>>>>>> there were “online services” such as Compuserve, AOL, Prodigy and
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>> Before the World-Wide Web came to dominate, and in competition with
>>>>>> it,
>>>>>> there was Microsoft’s “Project Blackbird”, Quark’s “Immedia” and no
>>>>>> doubt something from Adobe as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Are these names unfamiliar to you? Go look them up in the usual
>>>>>> places.
>>>>>> There will be a test--if you want to continue this thread.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am aware of them (I'm 45 years-old). In fact, Delphi Internet was
>>>>> my first venture onto the Internet.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux is chosen because it's good enough and free, not because it
>>>>>>> is necessarily better.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Source was better than all of those put together. That’s why it
>>>>>> wiped them out. Those proprietary products had the backing
>>>>>> (financial, marketing, technical) of some of the world’s biggest
>>>>>> megacorporations of the time, but they could not compete with Open
>>>>>> Source and open standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not on price, that's for sure. If I recall correctly, those
>>>>> proprietary services also wanted to make sure that you remained
>>>>> exclusive to that service. There was no benefit for them to allow you
>>>>> to venture outside of their walled garden, since that would cause you
>>>>> to eventually look for a cheaper service which still gave you access
>>>>> to things like Usenet, IRC and the World Wide Web without needing to
>>>>> pass through their graphical interface. That might be why their
>>>>> systems were primitive compared to the Linux ones, based on UNIX,
>>>>> which resisted a user having any sort of middleman.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft could use their own server software for free on their Cloud.
>>>> They don't. They use Linux for their servers. That's all you really
>>>> need to know about the superiority of Linux for servers. I think Apple
>>>> mostly gave up on the server market a few years back.
>>>>
>>>> If you're using the Internet, you're using Linux.
>>>
>>> Apple probably gave up because the hardware they were selling when they
>>> were pushing servers was wholly inappropriate, as was the software
>>> running atop it. As impressive as the PowerPC was, combining it with
>>> Mac OS at the time wasn't a great solution for running a server.
>>> Whether today or back then, the mere fact that you can run a server
>>> with Linux without even needing a GUI ensures that performance will be
>>> good, and better than the alternative software on the same hardware.
>>> Either way, I am glad that Linux runs servers well and especially that
>>> a license from Microsoft, Apple or IBM isn't required to create our own
>>> web server. I'm just pointing out that without Linux, one of those
>>> would likely be behind most of the servers.
>>
>> I think Apple is very good at selling fancy goo-gaws in the retail
>> market, and the server market really wasn't their thing. They've been
>> using UNIX for years now and, if they really wanted to get into the
>> server market, they probably could. But that's not their strength.
>> Besides, it's hard to compete against free OS for servers.
>
> I think Apple misjudged the customer who would want to buy a server in the
> first place. These people don't want anything fancy; they want whatever
> hardware they buy to perform as it should. Whether the interface is pretty
> or not means nothing to them because they have experts who are just as
> comfortable in the command line as they are in a GUI. Given that, there
> was truly no reason to pay an Apple premium for a thin server that
> performs poorly when you could buy two ugly servers which performed a lot
> better at the same price. The only drawback is that these servers would be
> running Linux, which is not a drawback at all to whoever is maintaining
> them.

I have no doubt that Apple would still be making servers if they were making
money on them.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them money,
>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point, after
>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”? That’s
>>>>>> how Free Software works.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>> support. Gotcha.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by the
>>>> droves to useless, crap software... But you may have something, people
>>>> keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though their "customers" are
>>>> really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>
>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how Windows
>>> can run on just about any hardware and support every third-party
>>> peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to seek out an
>>> alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also has the largest
>>> library of software, and tons of experts can be found on the web to
>>> help them with any technical problem they have, free of charge. Those
>>> are real benefits, no matter how much one hates Windows.
>>
>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do for
>> Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix Windows...
>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old computer
>> BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about 20 "solutions,"
>> none of which worked.
>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a Linux
>> Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer from scratch. I
>> could be a great Windows support expert... I've already memorized the
>> three Rs,
>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>
>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has had a
>> lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset her network
>> something or other when it slows to crawl on the Internet (what is that
>> crap?). And I still think Windows is the most convoluted crap OS ever
>> made.
>
> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an IP
> mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this issue), 2)
> terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by MediaTek, 3) too much
> distance and interference between her computer and the router. If you have
> a cheap TP-Link router, get rid of that thing. Their more expensive models
> are fine, but the one selling for around $30 causes a lot of chaos.

I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers, except for
one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link routers can't handle
a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the Gigabyte Ethernet ports seem
to be rock solid. There's computers in nine locations in this house.
Fortunately, when they ran the phone cables they used CAT 5, so I just
re-terminated the cables to CAT 5 jacks, added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte
switches) and ran some CAT 5 cable at the base of the wall for some of the
locations not near a jack — and everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now
that you mention it, I don't think my wife's computer has had to have the
network reset since I ran the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I never
had problems with the Linux computers when using the same WiFi connections.

>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software isn't as
>>> impressive and the software's general quality isn't there either. It
>>> works on anything, that's true, but not anyone is comfortable with the
>>> process of installing it, no matter how easy it is.
>>
>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer every
>> time the old one slows down because that's all they want to know.
>> "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>
> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession which
> should prompt most people to save as much money as they can by keeping
> their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going to be everyone's
> best friend soon.

You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:12:43 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:17:16 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 May 2024 08:30:08 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
>>>>>> royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 14 May 2024 00:11:11 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>>>> support.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Uh, projects with a reputation for breakage will stop being used at
>>>>>> all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Clearly you have never used the stuff.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, actually, you are depending crucially on it right now, without
>>>>>>> realizing it. Without Open Source, there would be no Internet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One thing people don't seem to understand is that most programmers,
>>>>>> especially "open-source" programmers, have pride! They don't want
>>>>>> to be ridiculed for writing garbage. They want to please their uses
>>>>>> and respond quickly to issue reports. Many of them are even OCD
>>>>>> about their code.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only until they realize that they've made no money from it
>>>>> whatsoever.
>>>>> Whether you want to admit it or not, those programmers who were most
>>>>> insistent about supporting open-source eventually move on to greener
>>>>> pastures, and produce quality code in proprietary form.
>>>>
>>>> I call BS on that claim. Clément Lefèbvre (for one) has been putting
>>>> out Linux Mint for over 18 years now. It keeps getting better and
>>>> Clément shows no sign of "moving on."
>>>
>>> You can get a great idea of how much money the man makes from releasing
>>> Linux Mint. He gets paid for his work. It's all in donation form, but
>>> he makes a comfortable income providing us with a simple Linux
>>> distribution.
>>> If nobody gave him any money, I doubt that he would still be around.
>>
>> But he does put out a good product, that's why he gets the donations.
>> It's called free enterprise, completely different than monopoly
>> capitalism.
>>
>> Which reminds me. I need to send a donation to Linux Mint.
>
> You should. Over the years, he's gotten two Ethereums from me and a number
> of $10 or $20 donations. I have no regrets, mostly because I imagine that
> people who couldn't afford high-end computers benefited tremendously from
> being able to install Linux, and do as much as their friends were doing on
> their more expensive computers.

I've donated a couple times (I think two times) to Linux Mint but the last
time was about 5 years ago, I believe.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 5/17/2024 12:14 AM, vallor wrote:
> On Wed, 15 May 2024 10:14:26 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <6644c341$0$2363136$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>
>> On 5/15/2024 10:04 AM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 09:47:02 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>> <6644bcd4$1$2363139$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 5/15/2024 1:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 10:08:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But HWiNFO is a serious hardware info app, with extreme detail about
>>>>>> every component, including the BIOS.
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/biosdecode.en.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> $ sudo biosdecode -d /dev/mem # biosdecode 3.3 ACPI 2.0 present.
>>>> OEM Identifier: VRTUAL RSD Table 32-bit Address: 0x00100000 XSD
>>>> Table 64-bit Address: 0x0000000000100000
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is on Ubuntu WSL.
>>>
>>> Now, I know you're not that stupid.
>>>
>>> Who do you think you're fooling?
>>
>>
>> OPTIONS
>> -d, --dev-mem FILE
>> Read memory from device FILE (default: /dev/mem)
>>
>>
>> What 'not that stupid' results do you get?
>
> I don't know "biosdecode" from Adam.
>
> But I do know dmidecode -- let us examine the "well-formatted"
> output!
>
> [...]
> Handle 0x0010, DMI type 4, 48 bytes
> Processor Information
> Socket Designation: SP3r2
> Type: Central Processor
> Family: Zen
> Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
> ID: 10 0F 83 00 FF FB 8B 17
> Signature: Family 23, Model 49, Stepping 0
> Flags:
> FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
> VME (Virtual mode extension)
> DE (Debugging extension)
> PSE (Page size extension)
> TSC (Time stamp counter)
> MSR (Model specific registers)
> PAE (Physical address extension)
> MCE (Machine check exception)
> CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
> APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported)
> SEP (Fast system call)
> MTRR (Memory type range registers)
> PGE (Page global enable)
> MCA (Machine check architecture)
> CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported)
> PAT (Page attribute table)
> PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
> CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported)
> MMX (MMX technology supported)
> FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported)
> SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
> SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2)
> HTT (Multi-threading)
> Version: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor
> Voltage: 1.1 V
> External Clock: 100 MHz
> Max Speed: 4550 MHz
> Current Speed: 3700 MHz
> Status: Populated, Enabled
> Upgrade: Socket SP3r2
> L1 Cache Handle: 0x000D
> L2 Cache Handle: 0x000E
> L3 Cache Handle: 0x000F
> Serial Number: Unknown
> Asset Tag: Unknown
> Part Number: Unknown
> Core Count: 32
> Core Enabled: 32
> Thread Count: 64
> Characteristics:
> 64-bit capable
> Multi-Core
> Hardware Thread
> Execute Protection
> Enhanced Virtualization
> Power/Performance Control
> [...]

weak. Get HWiNFO or AIDA64 for real hardware listings.

> And as I said, they ported it to Windows -- so run
> dmidecode in an admin shell (not WSL -- command.com)
> and let's see what that looks like, hmm?

https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/dmidecode.htm
https://www.nongnu.org/dmidecode/

I downloaded the Win binaries from the first link and extracted them:

Directory of C:\Users\DFS\Desktop

12/03/2008 03:30 PM 19,968 biosdecode.exe
05/17/2024 07:51 AM 368,567 dmidecode-2.10-src-setup.exe
12/03/2008 03:30 PM 80,896 dmidecode.exe
12/03/2008 03:30 PM 16,384 ownership.exe
12/03/2008 03:30 PM 18,944 vpddecode.exe
5 File(s) 504,759 bytes
0 Dir(s) 153,200,242,688 bytes free

C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>biosdecode
# biosdecode 2.10

C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>ownership

C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>vpddecode
# vpddecode 2.10

So 3 of the 4 did nothing.

$ dmidecode just printed BIOS info

> Note that the bare-bones output from Linux itself for
> the processor features can be found by just catting
> /proc/cpuinfo:
>
> _[/root]_(root@lm)⭕_
> # cat /proc/cpuinfo | head -28
> processor : 0
> vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
> cpu family : 23
> model : 49
> model name : AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor
> stepping : 0
> microcode : 0x8301039
> cpu MHz : 2200.000
> cache size : 512 KB
> physical id : 0
> siblings : 64
> core id : 0
> cpu cores : 32
> apicid : 0
> initial apicid : 0
> fpu : yes
> fpu_exception : yes
> cpuid level : 16
> wp : yes
> flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid extd_apicid aperfmperf rapl pni pclmulqdq monitor ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs skinit wdt tce topoext perfctr_core perfctr_nb bpext perfctr_llc mwaitx cpb cat_l3 cdp_l3 hw_pstate ssbd mba ibpb stibp vmmcall fsgsbase bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 cqm rdt_a rdseed adx smap clflushopt clwb sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 cqm_llc cqm_occup_llc cqm_mbm_total cqm_mbm_local clzero irperf xsaveerptr rdpru wbnoinvd arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale vmcb_clean flushbyasid decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold avic v_vmsave_vmload vgif v_spec_ctrl umip rdpid overflow_recov succor smca sev sev_es
> bugs : sysret_ss_attrs spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass retbleed smt_rsb srso
> bogomips : 7400.42
> TLB size : 3072 4K pages
> clflush size : 64
> cache_alignment : 64
> address sizes : 43 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
> power management: ts ttp tm hwpstate cpb eff_freq_ro [13] [14]
> [... repeat 63 more times]
>
> You can't expect the kernel itself to be too flashy with its output.

Printing meaningful descriptions in sorted order isn't 'flashy', and
should be expected. But the powers that be decided not to:

https://docs.kernel.org/arch/x86/cpuinfo.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The list of feature flags in /proc/cpuinfo is not complete and
represents an ill-fated attempt from long time ago to put feature flags
in an easy to find place for userspace.
....
Regarding implementation, flags appearing in /proc/cpuinfo have an
X86_FEATURE definition in arch/x86/include/asm/cpufeatures.h."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you look at cpufeatures.h (and at the shell script that extracts the
flags - arch/x86/kernel/cpu/mkcapflags.sh), you see it's a minor code
change to extract the flag description along with the flag, and sort and
output the data correctly.

But doing it right would also require someone to maintain the entries in
cpufeatures.h. Sounds like a job for YOU, who made big money with
Linux. Time to give back.

On Fri, 17 May 2024 13:41:10 +0000, RonB wrote:

> On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them money,
>>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point,
>>>>>>> after all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”? That’s
>>>>>>> how Free Software works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>> support. Gotcha.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by the
>>>>> droves to useless, crap software... But you may have something,
>>>>> people keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though their
>>>>> "customers" are really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>>
>>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how Windows
>>>> can run on just about any hardware and support every third-party
>>>> peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to seek out an
>>>> alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also has the largest
>>>> library of software, and tons of experts can be found on the web to
>>>> help them with any technical problem they have, free of charge. Those
>>>> are real benefits, no matter how much one hates Windows.
>>>
>>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do for
>>> Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix
>>> Windows...
>>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old computer
>>> BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about 20
>>> "solutions,"
>>> none of which worked.
>>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a Linux
>>> Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer from scratch.
>>> I could be a great Windows support expert... I've already memorized
>>> the three Rs,
>>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>>
>>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has had a
>>> lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset her
>>> network something or other when it slows to crawl on the Internet
>>> (what is that crap?). And I still think Windows is the most convoluted
>>> crap OS ever made.
>>
>> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an IP
>> mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this issue), 2)
>> terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by MediaTek, 3) too much
>> distance and interference between her computer and the router. If you
>> have a cheap TP-Link router, get rid of that thing. Their more
>> expensive models are fine, but the one selling for around $30 causes a
>> lot of chaos.
>
> I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers, except
> for one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link routers
> can't handle a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the Gigabyte
> Ethernet ports seem to be rock solid. There's computers in nine
> locations in this house. Fortunately, when they ran the phone cables
> they used CAT 5, so I just re-terminated the cables to CAT 5 jacks,
> added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte switches) and ran some CAT 5 cable at the
> base of the wall for some of the locations not near a jack — and
> everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now that you mention it, I don't
> think my wife's computer has had to have the network reset since I ran
> the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I never had problems with the
> Linux computers when using the same WiFi connections.

With the aforementioned TP-Link router a technician from my ISP gave me, I
had no problems in Linux either. However, the moment I got back into
Windows, it wouldn't give me any kind of Internet after connecting to the
router. I only eventually figured out that the router in question was
using an already used IP address despite being configured not to. Why that
would only be a problem for Windows is beyond me.
>>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software isn't as
>>>> impressive and the software's general quality isn't there either. It
>>>> works on anything, that's true, but not anyone is comfortable with
>>>> the process of installing it, no matter how easy it is.
>>>
>>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer every
>>> time the old one slows down because that's all they want to know.
>>> "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>>
>> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession
>> which should prompt most people to save as much money as they can by
>> keeping their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going to be
>> everyone's best friend soon.
>
> You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.

And I don't blame them for rejecting Windows or anything else American,
considering what the CIA did to topple their democratically elected
governments in the past to make them puppet states of the USA. How many
Latin leaders need to die in a plane crash before the world realizes that
the American government, not the people, is indeed The Great Satan?

On 5/17/2024 11:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 13:41:10 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them money,
>>>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point,
>>>>>>>> after all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”? That’s
>>>>>>>> how Free Software works.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>>> support. Gotcha.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by the
>>>>>> droves to useless, crap software... But you may have something,
>>>>>> people keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though their
>>>>>> "customers" are really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>>>
>>>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how Windows
>>>>> can run on just about any hardware and support every third-party
>>>>> peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to seek out an
>>>>> alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also has the largest
>>>>> library of software, and tons of experts can be found on the web to
>>>>> help them with any technical problem they have, free of charge. Those
>>>>> are real benefits, no matter how much one hates Windows.
>>>>
>>>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do for
>>>> Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix
>>>> Windows...
>>>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old computer
>>>> BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about 20
>>>> "solutions,"
>>>> none of which worked.
>>>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a Linux
>>>> Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer from scratch.
>>>> I could be a great Windows support expert... I've already memorized
>>>> the three Rs,
>>>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>>>
>>>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has had a
>>>> lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset her
>>>> network something or other when it slows to crawl on the Internet
>>>> (what is that crap?). And I still think Windows is the most convoluted
>>>> crap OS ever made.
>>>
>>> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an IP
>>> mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this issue), 2)
>>> terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by MediaTek, 3) too much
>>> distance and interference between her computer and the router. If you
>>> have a cheap TP-Link router, get rid of that thing. Their more
>>> expensive models are fine, but the one selling for around $30 causes a
>>> lot of chaos.
>>
>> I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers, except
>> for one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link routers
>> can't handle a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the Gigabyte
>> Ethernet ports seem to be rock solid. There's computers in nine
>> locations in this house. Fortunately, when they ran the phone cables
>> they used CAT 5, so I just re-terminated the cables to CAT 5 jacks,
>> added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte switches) and ran some CAT 5 cable at the
>> base of the wall for some of the locations not near a jack — and
>> everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now that you mention it, I don't
>> think my wife's computer has had to have the network reset since I ran
>> the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I never had problems with the
>> Linux computers when using the same WiFi connections.
>
> With the aforementioned TP-Link router a technician from my ISP gave me, I
> had no problems in Linux either. However, the moment I got back into
> Windows, it wouldn't give me any kind of Internet after connecting to the
> router. I only eventually figured out that the router in question was
> using an already used IP address despite being configured not to. Why that
> would only be a problem for Windows is beyond me.
>
>>>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software isn't as
>>>>> impressive and the software's general quality isn't there either. It
>>>>> works on anything, that's true, but not anyone is comfortable with
>>>>> the process of installing it, no matter how easy it is.
>>>>
>>>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer every
>>>> time the old one slows down because that's all they want to know.
>>>> "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession
>>> which should prompt most people to save as much money as they can by
>>> keeping their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going to be
>>> everyone's best friend soon.
>>
>> You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.
>
> And I don't blame them for rejecting Windows or anything else American,
> considering what the CIA did to topple their democratically elected
> governments in the past to make them puppet states of the USA. How many
> Latin leaders need to die in a plane crash before the world realizes that
> the American government, not the people, is indeed The Great Satan?

kooks

On Fri, 17 May 2024 12:06:49 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/17/2024 11:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 13:41:10 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them money,
>>>>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point,
>>>>>>>>> after all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”?
>>>>>>>>> That’s how Free Software works.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>>>> support. Gotcha.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by
>>>>>>> the droves to useless, crap software... But you may have
>>>>>>> something, people keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though
>>>>>>> their "customers" are really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>>>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how
>>>>>> Windows can run on just about any hardware and support every
>>>>>> third-party peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to
>>>>>> seek out an alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also
>>>>>> has the largest library of software, and tons of experts can be
>>>>>> found on the web to help them with any technical problem they have,
>>>>>> free of charge. Those are real benefits, no matter how much one
>>>>>> hates Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do for
>>>>> Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix
>>>>> Windows...
>>>>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old computer
>>>>> BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about 20
>>>>> "solutions,"
>>>>> none of which worked.
>>>>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a
>>>>> Linux Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer from
>>>>> scratch. I could be a great Windows support expert... I've already
>>>>> memorized the three Rs,
>>>>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>>>>
>>>>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has had
>>>>> a lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset her
>>>>> network something or other when it slows to crawl on the Internet
>>>>> (what is that crap?). And I still think Windows is the most
>>>>> convoluted crap OS ever made.
>>>>
>>>> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an IP
>>>> mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this issue), 2)
>>>> terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by MediaTek, 3) too
>>>> much distance and interference between her computer and the router.
>>>> If you have a cheap TP-Link router, get rid of that thing. Their more
>>>> expensive models are fine, but the one selling for around $30 causes
>>>> a lot of chaos.
>>>
>>> I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers,
>>> except for one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link
>>> routers can't handle a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the
>>> Gigabyte Ethernet ports seem to be rock solid. There's computers in
>>> nine locations in this house. Fortunately, when they ran the phone
>>> cables they used CAT 5, so I just re-terminated the cables to CAT 5
>>> jacks, added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte switches) and ran some CAT 5
>>> cable at the base of the wall for some of the locations not near a
>>> jack — and everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now that you mention
>>> it, I don't think my wife's computer has had to have the network reset
>>> since I ran the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I never had
>>> problems with the Linux computers when using the same WiFi
>>> connections.
>>
>> With the aforementioned TP-Link router a technician from my ISP gave
>> me, I had no problems in Linux either. However, the moment I got back
>> into Windows, it wouldn't give me any kind of Internet after connecting
>> to the router. I only eventually figured out that the router in
>> question was using an already used IP address despite being configured
>> not to. Why that would only be a problem for Windows is beyond me.
>>
>>>>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software isn't
>>>>>> as impressive and the software's general quality isn't there
>>>>>> either. It works on anything, that's true, but not anyone is
>>>>>> comfortable with the process of installing it, no matter how easy
>>>>>> it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer every
>>>>> time the old one slows down because that's all they want to know.
>>>>> "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession
>>>> which should prompt most people to save as much money as they can by
>>>> keeping their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going to be
>>>> everyone's best friend soon.
>>>
>>> You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.
>>
>> And I don't blame them for rejecting Windows or anything else American,
>> considering what the CIA did to topple their democratically elected
>> governments in the past to make them puppet states of the USA. How many
>> Latin leaders need to die in a plane crash before the world realizes
>> that the American government, not the people, is indeed The Great
>> Satan?
>
> kooks

Which part are you denying?

On Fri, 17 May 2024 12:06:49 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/17/2024 11:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 13:41:10 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them money,
>>>>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point,
>>>>>>>>> after all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”?
>>>>>>>>> That’s how Free Software works.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>>>> support. Gotcha.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by
>>>>>>> the droves to useless, crap software... But you may have
>>>>>>> something, people keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though
>>>>>>> their "customers" are really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>>>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how
>>>>>> Windows can run on just about any hardware and support every
>>>>>> third-party peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to
>>>>>> seek out an alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also
>>>>>> has the largest library of software, and tons of experts can be
>>>>>> found on the web to help them with any technical problem they have,
>>>>>> free of charge. Those are real benefits, no matter how much one
>>>>>> hates Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do for
>>>>> Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix
>>>>> Windows...
>>>>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old computer
>>>>> BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about 20
>>>>> "solutions,"
>>>>> none of which worked.
>>>>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a
>>>>> Linux Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer from
>>>>> scratch. I could be a great Windows support expert... I've already
>>>>> memorized the three Rs,
>>>>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>>>>
>>>>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has had
>>>>> a lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset her
>>>>> network something or other when it slows to crawl on the Internet
>>>>> (what is that crap?). And I still think Windows is the most
>>>>> convoluted crap OS ever made.
>>>>
>>>> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an IP
>>>> mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this issue), 2)
>>>> terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by MediaTek, 3) too
>>>> much distance and interference between her computer and the router.
>>>> If you have a cheap TP-Link router, get rid of that thing. Their more
>>>> expensive models are fine, but the one selling for around $30 causes
>>>> a lot of chaos.
>>>
>>> I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers,
>>> except for one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link
>>> routers can't handle a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the
>>> Gigabyte Ethernet ports seem to be rock solid. There's computers in
>>> nine locations in this house. Fortunately, when they ran the phone
>>> cables they used CAT 5, so I just re-terminated the cables to CAT 5
>>> jacks, added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte switches) and ran some CAT 5
>>> cable at the base of the wall for some of the locations not near a
>>> jack — and everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now that you mention
>>> it, I don't think my wife's computer has had to have the network reset
>>> since I ran the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I never had
>>> problems with the Linux computers when using the same WiFi
>>> connections.
>>
>> With the aforementioned TP-Link router a technician from my ISP gave
>> me, I had no problems in Linux either. However, the moment I got back
>> into Windows, it wouldn't give me any kind of Internet after connecting
>> to the router. I only eventually figured out that the router in
>> question was using an already used IP address despite being configured
>> not to. Why that would only be a problem for Windows is beyond me.
>>
>>>>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software isn't
>>>>>> as impressive and the software's general quality isn't there
>>>>>> either. It works on anything, that's true, but not anyone is
>>>>>> comfortable with the process of installing it, no matter how easy
>>>>>> it is.
>>>>>
>>>>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer every
>>>>> time the old one slows down because that's all they want to know.
>>>>> "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession
>>>> which should prompt most people to save as much money as they can by
>>>> keeping their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going to be
>>>> everyone's best friend soon.
>>>
>>> You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.
>>
>> And I don't blame them for rejecting Windows or anything else American,
>> considering what the CIA did to topple their democratically elected
>> governments in the past to make them puppet states of the USA. How many
>> Latin leaders need to die in a plane crash before the world realizes
>> that the American government, not the people, is indeed The Great
>> Satan?
>
> kooks

For your perusal: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America>

Hint: The CIA is an awful organization, and your country is not in any way
wholesome.

On Fri, 17 May 2024 09:43:28 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<66475efb$0$7180$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On 5/17/2024 12:14 AM, vallor wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 10:14:26 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>> <6644c341$0$2363136$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>
>>> On 5/15/2024 10:04 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 09:47:02 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>> <6644bcd4$1$2363139$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/15/2024 1:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 10:08:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But HWiNFO is a serious hardware info app, with extreme detail about
>>>>>>> every component, including the BIOS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/biosdecode.en.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> $ sudo biosdecode -d /dev/mem # biosdecode 3.3 ACPI 2.0 present.
>>>>> OEM Identifier: VRTUAL RSD Table 32-bit Address: 0x00100000 XSD
>>>>> Table 64-bit Address: 0x0000000000100000
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is on Ubuntu WSL.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I know you're not that stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Who do you think you're fooling?
>>>
>>>
>>> OPTIONS
>>> -d, --dev-mem FILE
>>> Read memory from device FILE (default: /dev/mem)
>>>
>>>
>>> What 'not that stupid' results do you get?
>>
>> I don't know "biosdecode" from Adam.
>>
>> But I do know dmidecode -- let us examine the "well-formatted"
>> output!
>>
>> [...]
>> Handle 0x0010, DMI type 4, 48 bytes
>> Processor Information
>> Socket Designation: SP3r2
>> Type: Central Processor
>> Family: Zen
>> Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
>> ID: 10 0F 83 00 FF FB 8B 17
>> Signature: Family 23, Model 49, Stepping 0
>> Flags:
>> FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
>> VME (Virtual mode extension)
>> DE (Debugging extension)
>> PSE (Page size extension)
>> TSC (Time stamp counter)
>> MSR (Model specific registers)
>> PAE (Physical address extension)
>> MCE (Machine check exception)
>> CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
>> APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported)
>> SEP (Fast system call)
>> MTRR (Memory type range registers)
>> PGE (Page global enable)
>> MCA (Machine check architecture)
>> CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported)
>> PAT (Page attribute table)
>> PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
>> CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported)
>> MMX (MMX technology supported)
>> FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported)
>> SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
>> SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2)
>> HTT (Multi-threading)
>> Version: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor
>> Voltage: 1.1 V
>> External Clock: 100 MHz
>> Max Speed: 4550 MHz
>> Current Speed: 3700 MHz
>> Status: Populated, Enabled
>> Upgrade: Socket SP3r2
>> L1 Cache Handle: 0x000D
>> L2 Cache Handle: 0x000E
>> L3 Cache Handle: 0x000F
>> Serial Number: Unknown
>> Asset Tag: Unknown
>> Part Number: Unknown
>> Core Count: 32
>> Core Enabled: 32
>> Thread Count: 64
>> Characteristics:
>> 64-bit capable
>> Multi-Core
>> Hardware Thread
>> Execute Protection
>> Enhanced Virtualization
>> Power/Performance Control
>> [...]
>
> weak.

Nice self-nuke there.

--
-v

On 5/17/2024 12:46 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 12:06:49 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 11:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 13:41:10 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them money,
>>>>>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point,
>>>>>>>>>> after all.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”?
>>>>>>>>>> That’s how Free Software works.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make sure
>>>>>>>>> that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to sell the
>>>>>>>>> support. Gotcha.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by
>>>>>>>> the droves to useless, crap software... But you may have
>>>>>>>> something, people keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though
>>>>>>>> their "customers" are really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>>>>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how
>>>>>>> Windows can run on just about any hardware and support every
>>>>>>> third-party peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to
>>>>>>> seek out an alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also
>>>>>>> has the largest library of software, and tons of experts can be
>>>>>>> found on the web to help them with any technical problem they have,
>>>>>>> free of charge. Those are real benefits, no matter how much one
>>>>>>> hates Windows.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do for
>>>>>> Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix
>>>>>> Windows...
>>>>>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old computer
>>>>>> BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about 20
>>>>>> "solutions,"
>>>>>> none of which worked.
>>>>>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a
>>>>>> Linux Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer from
>>>>>> scratch. I could be a great Windows support expert... I've already
>>>>>> memorized the three Rs,
>>>>>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has had
>>>>>> a lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset her
>>>>>> network something or other when it slows to crawl on the Internet
>>>>>> (what is that crap?). And I still think Windows is the most
>>>>>> convoluted crap OS ever made.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an IP
>>>>> mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this issue), 2)
>>>>> terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by MediaTek, 3) too
>>>>> much distance and interference between her computer and the router.
>>>>> If you have a cheap TP-Link router, get rid of that thing. Their more
>>>>> expensive models are fine, but the one selling for around $30 causes
>>>>> a lot of chaos.
>>>>
>>>> I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers,
>>>> except for one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link
>>>> routers can't handle a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the
>>>> Gigabyte Ethernet ports seem to be rock solid. There's computers in
>>>> nine locations in this house. Fortunately, when they ran the phone
>>>> cables they used CAT 5, so I just re-terminated the cables to CAT 5
>>>> jacks, added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte switches) and ran some CAT 5
>>>> cable at the base of the wall for some of the locations not near a
>>>> jack — and everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now that you mention
>>>> it, I don't think my wife's computer has had to have the network reset
>>>> since I ran the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I never had
>>>> problems with the Linux computers when using the same WiFi
>>>> connections.
>>>
>>> With the aforementioned TP-Link router a technician from my ISP gave
>>> me, I had no problems in Linux either. However, the moment I got back
>>> into Windows, it wouldn't give me any kind of Internet after connecting
>>> to the router. I only eventually figured out that the router in
>>> question was using an already used IP address despite being configured
>>> not to. Why that would only be a problem for Windows is beyond me.
>>>
>>>>>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software isn't
>>>>>>> as impressive and the software's general quality isn't there
>>>>>>> either. It works on anything, that's true, but not anyone is
>>>>>>> comfortable with the process of installing it, no matter how easy
>>>>>>> it is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer every
>>>>>> time the old one slows down because that's all they want to know.
>>>>>> "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession
>>>>> which should prompt most people to save as much money as they can by
>>>>> keeping their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going to be
>>>>> everyone's best friend soon.
>>>>
>>>> You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.
>>>
>>> And I don't blame them for rejecting Windows or anything else American,
>>> considering what the CIA did to topple their democratically elected
>>> governments in the past to make them puppet states of the USA. How many
>>> Latin leaders need to die in a plane crash before the world realizes
>>> that the American government, not the people, is indeed The Great
>>> Satan?
>>
>> kooks
>
> Which part are you denying?

Much of the political crap you and wRonG type is nonsense, and your
hatred of the USA is ridiculous ("Removing American products from my
diet has allowed me to lose weight and keep it down.").

Maybe both of you kooks could quit polluting tech threads with political
statements?

On 5/17/2024 1:42 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 09:43:28 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <66475efb$0$7180$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 12:14 AM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 10:14:26 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>> <6644c341$0$2363136$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 5/15/2024 10:04 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 09:47:02 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>> <6644bcd4$1$2363139$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/15/2024 1:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 10:08:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But HWiNFO is a serious hardware info app, with extreme detail about
>>>>>>>> every component, including the BIOS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/biosdecode.en.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $ sudo biosdecode -d /dev/mem # biosdecode 3.3 ACPI 2.0 present.
>>>>>> OEM Identifier: VRTUAL RSD Table 32-bit Address: 0x00100000 XSD
>>>>>> Table 64-bit Address: 0x0000000000100000
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is on Ubuntu WSL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I know you're not that stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who do you think you're fooling?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OPTIONS
>>>> -d, --dev-mem FILE
>>>> Read memory from device FILE (default: /dev/mem)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What 'not that stupid' results do you get?
>>>
>>> I don't know "biosdecode" from Adam.
>>>
>>> But I do know dmidecode -- let us examine the "well-formatted"
>>> output!
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> Handle 0x0010, DMI type 4, 48 bytes
>>> Processor Information
>>> Socket Designation: SP3r2
>>> Type: Central Processor
>>> Family: Zen
>>> Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
>>> ID: 10 0F 83 00 FF FB 8B 17
>>> Signature: Family 23, Model 49, Stepping 0
>>> Flags:
>>> FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
>>> VME (Virtual mode extension)
>>> DE (Debugging extension)
>>> PSE (Page size extension)
>>> TSC (Time stamp counter)
>>> MSR (Model specific registers)
>>> PAE (Physical address extension)
>>> MCE (Machine check exception)
>>> CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
>>> APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported)
>>> SEP (Fast system call)
>>> MTRR (Memory type range registers)
>>> PGE (Page global enable)
>>> MCA (Machine check architecture)
>>> CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported)
>>> PAT (Page attribute table)
>>> PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
>>> CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported)
>>> MMX (MMX technology supported)
>>> FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported)
>>> SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
>>> SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2)
>>> HTT (Multi-threading)
>>> Version: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor
>>> Voltage: 1.1 V
>>> External Clock: 100 MHz
>>> Max Speed: 4550 MHz
>>> Current Speed: 3700 MHz
>>> Status: Populated, Enabled
>>> Upgrade: Socket SP3r2
>>> L1 Cache Handle: 0x000D
>>> L2 Cache Handle: 0x000E
>>> L3 Cache Handle: 0x000F
>>> Serial Number: Unknown
>>> Asset Tag: Unknown
>>> Part Number: Unknown
>>> Core Count: 32
>>> Core Enabled: 32
>>> Thread Count: 64
>>> Characteristics:
>>> 64-bit capable
>>> Multi-Core
>>> Hardware Thread
>>> Execute Protection
>>> Enhanced Virtualization
>>> Power/Performance Control
>>> [...]
>>
>> weak.
>
> Nice self-nuke there.

eh? That Linux dmidecode output says your AMD Threadripper only
supports 23 CPU features/flags. /proc/cpuinfo showed your chip
supported 130 features. And HWiNFO says my measly AMD 5600G supports
83. Thus 'weak'. But yes, it's well-formatted.

Best is:
Version : AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor
Voltage : 1.1 V
External Clock : 100 MHz
Max Speed : 4550 MHz
Current Speed : 3700 MHz
Status : Populated, Enabled
Upgrade : Socket SP3r2
L1 Cache Handle: 0x000D
L2 Cache Handle: 0x000E
L3 Cache Handle: 0x000F
Serial Number : Unknown
Asset Tag : Unknown
Part Number : Unknown
Core Count : 32
Core Enabled : 32
Thread Count : 64

I won't rest until it looks like I want it to!

FWIW, I would sort by the CPU feature description, and put the mnemonic
in parens.

What does HWiNFO say about your chip?

Yesterday I submitted a request to HWiNFO to dedupe and sort their CPU
feature output.

Also, why did you snip and run from the rest of the post? Don't you
want your name up in lights as the author of a new program to enhance
the output of 'hwinfo'?

On Fri, 17 May 2024 09:43:28 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<66475efb$0$7180$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On 5/17/2024 12:14 AM, vallor wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 10:14:26 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>> <6644c341$0$2363136$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>
>>> On 5/15/2024 10:04 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 09:47:02 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>> <6644bcd4$1$2363139$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/15/2024 1:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 10:08:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But HWiNFO is a serious hardware info app, with extreme detail
>>>>>>> about every component, including the BIOS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/biosdecode.en.html>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> $ sudo biosdecode -d /dev/mem # biosdecode 3.3 ACPI 2.0 present.
>>>>> OEM Identifier: VRTUAL RSD Table 32-bit Address:
>>>>> 0x00100000 XSD Table 64-bit Address: 0x0000000000100000
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is on Ubuntu WSL.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I know you're not that stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Who do you think you're fooling?
>>>
>>>
>>> OPTIONS -d, --dev-mem FILE Read memory from device FILE (default:
>>> /dev/mem)
>>>
>>>
>>> What 'not that stupid' results do you get?
>>
>> I don't know "biosdecode" from Adam.
>>
>> But I do know dmidecode -- let us examine the "well-formatted"
>> output!
>>
>> [...]
>> Handle 0x0010, DMI type 4, 48 bytes Processor Information
>> Socket Designation: SP3r2 Type: Central Processor Family: Zen
>> Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
>> ID: 10 0F 83 00 FF FB 8B 17 Signature: Family 23, Model 49,
Stepping 0
>> Flags:
>> FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
>> VME (Virtual mode extension)
>> DE (Debugging extension)
>> PSE (Page size extension)
>> TSC (Time stamp counter)
>> MSR (Model specific registers)
>> PAE (Physical address extension)
>> MCE (Machine check exception)
>> CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
>> APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported)
>> SEP (Fast system call)
>> MTRR (Memory type range registers)
>> PGE (Page global enable)
>> MCA (Machine check architecture)
>> CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page
attribute
>> table)
>> PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
>> CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported)
>> MMX (MMX technology supported)
>> FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported)
>> SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
>> SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2)
>> HTT (Multi-threading)
>> Version: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor Voltage:
1.1 V
>> External Clock: 100 MHz Max Speed: 4550 MHz Current Speed: 3700
MHz
>> Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: Socket SP3r2 L1 Cache Handle:
>> 0x000D L2 Cache Handle: 0x000E L3 Cache Handle: 0x000F Serial
Number:
>> Unknown Asset Tag: Unknown Part Number: Unknown Core Count: 32
Core
>> Enabled: 32 Thread Count: 64 Characteristics:
>> 64-bit capable Multi-Core Hardware Thread Execute
Protection Enhanced
>> Virtualization Power/Performance Control
>> [...]
>
> weak. Get HWiNFO or AIDA64 for real hardware listings.
>
>
>> And as I said, they ported it to Windows -- so run dmidecode in an
>> admin shell (not WSL -- command.com)
>> and let's see what that looks like, hmm?
>
> https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/dmidecode.htm
> https://www.nongnu.org/dmidecode/
>
> I downloaded the Win binaries from the first link and extracted them:
>
> Directory of C:\Users\DFS\Desktop
>
> 12/03/2008 03:30 PM 19,968 biosdecode.exe 05/17/2024 07:51
> AM 368,567 dmidecode-2.10-src-setup.exe 12/03/2008 03:30 PM
> 80,896 dmidecode.exe 12/03/2008 03:30 PM 16,384
> ownership.exe 12/03/2008 03:30 PM 18,944 vpddecode.exe
> 5 File(s) 504,759 bytes 0 Dir(s) 153,200,242,688
> bytes free
>
> C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>biosdecode # biosdecode 2.10
>
> C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>ownership
>
> C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>vpddecode # vpddecode 2.10
>
> So 3 of the 4 did nothing.

Did you run them with administrator permissions?

>
> $ dmidecode just printed BIOS info

Did you run them with admin perms?

>
>
>> Note that the bare-bones output from Linux itself for the processor
>> features can be found by just catting /proc/cpuinfo:
>>
>> _[/root]_(root@lm)⭕_
>> # cat /proc/cpuinfo | head -28 processor : 0 vendor_id :
AuthenticAMD
>> cpu family : 23 model : 49 model name : AMD Ryzen
Threadripper 3970X
>> 32-Core Processor stepping : 0 microcode : 0x8301039 cpu
MHz :
>> 2200.000 cache size : 512 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 64 core
id : 0
>> cpu cores : 32 apicid : 0 initial apicid : 0
fpu : yes fpu_exception
>> : yes cpuid level : 16 wp : yes flags : fpu vme
de pse tsc msr pae
>> mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2
>> ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc rep_good
>> nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid extd_apicid aperfmperf rapl pni
>> pclmulqdq monitor ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt aes xsave
>> avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a
>> misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs skinit wdt tce topoext perfctr_core
>> perfctr_nb bpext perfctr_llc mwaitx cpb cat_l3 cdp_l3 hw_pstate ssbd
>> mba ibpb stibp vmmcall fsgsbase bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 cqm rdt_a rdseed
>> adx smap clflushopt clwb sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 cqm_llc
>> cqm_occup_llc cqm_mbm_total cqm_mbm_local clzero irperf xsaveerptr
>> rdpru wbnoinvd arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale vmcb_clean
>> flushbyasid decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold avic v_vmsave_vmload
>> vgif v_spec_ctrl umip rdpid overflow_recov succor smca sev sev_es bugs
>> : sysret_ss_attrs spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass retbleed
>> smt_rsb srso bogomips : 7400.42 TLB size : 3072 4K pages
clflush size :
>> 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 43 bits physical, 48
bits
>> virtual power management: ts ttp tm hwpstate cpb eff_freq_ro [13] [14]
>> [... repeat 63 more times]
>>
>> You can't expect the kernel itself to be too flashy with its output.
>
>
> Printing meaningful descriptions in sorted order isn't 'flashy', and
> should be expected. But the powers that be decided not to:
>
> https://docs.kernel.org/arch/x86/cpuinfo.html
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "The list of feature flags in /proc/cpuinfo is not complete and
> represents an ill-fated attempt from long time ago to put feature flags
> in an easy to find place for userspace.
> ...
> Regarding implementation, flags appearing in /proc/cpuinfo have an
> X86_FEATURE definition in arch/x86/include/asm/cpufeatures.h."
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is as far as I read in your original message. I see now
that you added more:

>
> If you look at cpufeatures.h (and at the shell script that extracts the
> flags - arch/x86/kernel/cpu/mkcapflags.sh), you see it's a minor code
> change to extract the flag description along with the flag, and sort and
> output the data correctly.
>
> But doing it right would also require someone to maintain the entries in
> cpufeatures.h. Sounds like a job for YOU, who made big money with
> Linux. Time to give back.

I'm already testing Linux with the Nvidia open drivers, and just helped
pan(1) out by submitting a ticket for gmime regarding the Newsgroups:
header -- which was acted on.

I don't need to be goaded into another project with the
purpose of satisfying some wintroll's aesthetics
regarding CPU feature output.

(But I've tucked it into the back of my mind as something to look
at, perhaps as a separate perl tool to show others[*] how its done.)

[*] Like rando wintrolls

--
-v

On Wed, 15 May 2024 23:50:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

> And aren't updated as often.

A key point of Open Source is the desire to encourage a “remix culture”.
It’s difficult to do that if the parts you are trying to remix are under
different, incompatible licences.

This is why the recommendation is not to proliferate Open Source licences,
but to choose from the existing, long-established ones that are available.

On Fri, 17 May 2024 14:06:25 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/17/2024 12:46 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 12:06:49 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/17/2024 11:14 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 13:41:10 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-17, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 03:04:45 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-05-15, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 14:04:34 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 2024-05-14, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 13 May 2024 22:54:36 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 13 May 2024 12:14:27 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ... explain how it is the _software_ that is making them
>>>>>>>>>>>> money,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and not the _support_ for that software.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It is the support that is making the money. That is the point,
>>>>>>>>>>> after all.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ever heard of “give away the razor, sell the razorblades”?
>>>>>>>>>>> That’s how Free Software works.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, it would be beneficial to open-source developers to make
>>>>>>>>>> sure that their software breaks easily and crashes, so as to
>>>>>>>>>> sell the support. Gotcha.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that would be brilliant, because customers would flock by
>>>>>>>>> the droves to useless, crap software... But you may have
>>>>>>>>> something, people keep using crap Microsoft Windows even though
>>>>>>>>> their "customers" are really Microsoft's unpaid beta testers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They use Windows because it's what they got on the computer they
>>>>>>>> purchased which cost less than a similar Mac. Considering how
>>>>>>>> Windows can run on just about any hardware and support every
>>>>>>>> third-party peripheral they plug into it, they are not likely to
>>>>>>>> seek out an alternative, even if it crashes a few times. It also
>>>>>>>> has the largest library of software, and tons of experts can be
>>>>>>>> found on the web to help them with any technical problem they
>>>>>>>> have,
>>>>>>>> free of charge. Those are real benefits, no matter how much one
>>>>>>>> hates Windows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find a lot better support for Linux on the Internet than I do
>>>>>>> for Windows. There are a LOT of people who'll tell you how to fix
>>>>>>> Windows...
>>>>>>> only problem is, none of it EVER works. When my wife's old
>>>>>>> computer BSOD'd (twice during upgrades) I found (and tried) about
>>>>>>> 20 "solutions,"
>>>>>>> none of which worked.
>>>>>>> The second time I went to what actually worked sooner — using a
>>>>>>> Linux Live[B USB to download her data and rebuild the computer
>>>>>>> from scratch. I could be a great Windows support expert... I've
>>>>>>> already memorized the three Rs,
>>>>>>> "Reboot. Reboot. Rebuild."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (Again this is from a years back and I will admit that wife has
>>>>>>> had a lot less trouble since then. Although I still have to reset
>>>>>>> her network something or other when it slows to crawl on the
>>>>>>> Internet (what is that crap?). And I still think Windows is the
>>>>>>> most convoluted crap OS ever made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are three issues I can imagine for the slow Internet: 1) an
>>>>>> IP mismatch caused by a crappy TP-Link router (I've had this
>>>>>> issue), 2) terrible Wi-Fi hardware such as the chips made by
>>>>>> MediaTek, 3) too much distance and interference between her
>>>>>> computer and the router. If you have a cheap TP-Link router, get
>>>>>> rid of that thing. Their more expensive models are fine, but the
>>>>>> one selling for around $30 causes a lot of chaos.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a TP-Link router and it works well because the computers,
>>>>> except for one room, are connected via LAN cables. I think TP-Link
>>>>> routers can't handle a lot of WiFi traffic — they overheat. But the
>>>>> Gigabyte Ethernet ports seem to be rock solid. There's computers in
>>>>> nine locations in this house. Fortunately, when they ran the phone
>>>>> cables they used CAT 5, so I just re-terminated the cables to CAT 5
>>>>> jacks, added five, cheap ($7 Gigabyte switches) and ran some CAT 5
>>>>> cable at the base of the wall for some of the locations not near a
>>>>> jack — and everyone has fast, reliable Internet. Now that you
>>>>> mention it, I don't think my wife's computer has had to have the
>>>>> network reset since I ran the Ethernet cable to her computer. But I
>>>>> never had problems with the Linux computers when using the same WiFi
>>>>> connections.
>>>>
>>>> With the aforementioned TP-Link router a technician from my ISP gave
>>>> me, I had no problems in Linux either. However, the moment I got back
>>>> into Windows, it wouldn't give me any kind of Internet after
>>>> connecting to the router. I only eventually figured out that the
>>>> router in question was using an already used IP address despite being
>>>> configured not to. Why that would only be a problem for Windows is
>>>> beyond me.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linux has much of the above too, but its library of software
>>>>>>>> isn't as impressive and the software's general quality isn't
>>>>>>>> there either. It works on anything, that's true, but not anyone
>>>>>>>> is comfortable with the process of installing it, no matter how
>>>>>>>> easy it is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I understand. I've known people who buy a new Windows computer
>>>>>>> every time the old one slows down because that's all they want to
>>>>>>> know. "Doesn't work right any more, but a new one."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, we're dealing with high inflation and a likely recession
>>>>>> which should prompt most people to save as much money as they can
>>>>>> by keeping their hardware for as long as possible. Linux is going
>>>>>> to be everyone's best friend soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're probably right. It's already happening in South America.
>>>>
>>>> And I don't blame them for rejecting Windows or anything else
>>>> American,
>>>> considering what the CIA did to topple their democratically elected
>>>> governments in the past to make them puppet states of the USA. How
>>>> many Latin leaders need to die in a plane crash before the world
>>>> realizes that the American government, not the people, is indeed The
>>>> Great Satan?
>>>
>>> kooks
>>
>> Which part are you denying?
>
>
> Much of the political crap you and wRonG type is nonsense, and your
> hatred of the USA is ridiculous ("Removing American products from my
> diet has allowed me to lose weight and keep it down.").
>
> Maybe both of you kooks could quit polluting tech threads with political
> statements?

On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I've lost five pounds since I decided to stop buying anything from the
> United States because of the crap that is added to every product. You can
> deny that too, but it speaks volumes about you.

"the crap that is added to every product"? What products? What 'crap'?

More of your hateful lies and delusions about the United States.

On 5/17/2024 4:23 PM, vallor wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 09:43:28 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
> <66475efb$0$7180$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 12:14 AM, vallor wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 10:14:26 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>> <6644c341$0$2363136$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>
>>>> On 5/15/2024 10:04 AM, vallor wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 15 May 2024 09:47:02 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>> <6644bcd4$1$2363139$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/15/2024 1:48 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 10:08:21 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But HWiNFO is a serious hardware info app, with extreme detail
>>>>>>>> about every component, including the BIOS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://manpages.debian.org/8/biosdecode.en.html>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $ sudo biosdecode -d /dev/mem # biosdecode 3.3 ACPI 2.0 present.
>>>>>> OEM Identifier: VRTUAL RSD Table 32-bit Address:
>>>>>> 0x00100000 XSD Table 64-bit Address: 0x0000000000100000
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is on Ubuntu WSL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, I know you're not that stupid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who do you think you're fooling?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OPTIONS -d, --dev-mem FILE Read memory from device FILE (default:
>>>> /dev/mem)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What 'not that stupid' results do you get?
>>>
>>> I don't know "biosdecode" from Adam.
>>>
>>> But I do know dmidecode -- let us examine the "well-formatted"
>>> output!
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> Handle 0x0010, DMI type 4, 48 bytes Processor Information
>>> Socket Designation: SP3r2 Type: Central Processor Family: Zen
>>> Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
>>> ID: 10 0F 83 00 FF FB 8B 17 Signature: Family 23, Model 49,
> Stepping 0
>>> Flags:
>>> FPU (Floating-point unit on-chip)
>>> VME (Virtual mode extension)
>>> DE (Debugging extension)
>>> PSE (Page size extension)
>>> TSC (Time stamp counter)
>>> MSR (Model specific registers)
>>> PAE (Physical address extension)
>>> MCE (Machine check exception)
>>> CX8 (CMPXCHG8 instruction supported)
>>> APIC (On-chip APIC hardware supported)
>>> SEP (Fast system call)
>>> MTRR (Memory type range registers)
>>> PGE (Page global enable)
>>> MCA (Machine check architecture)
>>> CMOV (Conditional move instruction supported) PAT (Page
> attribute
>>> table)
>>> PSE-36 (36-bit page size extension)
>>> CLFSH (CLFLUSH instruction supported)
>>> MMX (MMX technology supported)
>>> FXSR (FXSAVE and FXSTOR instructions supported)
>>> SSE (Streaming SIMD extensions)
>>> SSE2 (Streaming SIMD extensions 2)
>>> HTT (Multi-threading)
>>> Version: AMD Ryzen Threadripper 3970X 32-Core Processor Voltage:
> 1.1 V
>>> External Clock: 100 MHz Max Speed: 4550 MHz Current Speed: 3700
> MHz
>>> Status: Populated, Enabled Upgrade: Socket SP3r2 L1 Cache Handle:
>>> 0x000D L2 Cache Handle: 0x000E L3 Cache Handle: 0x000F Serial
> Number:
>>> Unknown Asset Tag: Unknown Part Number: Unknown Core Count: 32
> Core
>>> Enabled: 32 Thread Count: 64 Characteristics:
>>> 64-bit capable Multi-Core Hardware Thread Execute
> Protection Enhanced
>>> Virtualization Power/Performance Control
>>> [...]
>>
>> weak. Get HWiNFO or AIDA64 for real hardware listings.
>>
>>
>>> And as I said, they ported it to Windows -- so run dmidecode in an
>>> admin shell (not WSL -- command.com)
>>> and let's see what that looks like, hmm?
>>
>> https://gnuwin32.sourceforge.net/packages/dmidecode.htm
>> https://www.nongnu.org/dmidecode/
>>
>> I downloaded the Win binaries from the first link and extracted them:
>>
>> Directory of C:\Users\DFS\Desktop
>>
>> 12/03/2008 03:30 PM 19,968 biosdecode.exe 05/17/2024 07:51
>> AM 368,567 dmidecode-2.10-src-setup.exe 12/03/2008 03:30 PM
>> 80,896 dmidecode.exe 12/03/2008 03:30 PM 16,384
>> ownership.exe 12/03/2008 03:30 PM 18,944 vpddecode.exe
>> 5 File(s) 504,759 bytes 0 Dir(s) 153,200,242,688
>> bytes free
>>
>> C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>biosdecode # biosdecode 2.10
>>
>> C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>ownership
>>
>> C:\Users\DFS\Desktop>vpddecode # vpddecode 2.10
>>
>> So 3 of the 4 did nothing.
>
> Did you run them with administrator permissions?
>
>>
>> $ dmidecode just printed BIOS info
>
> Did you run them with admin perms?

I just did, and got the same results.

>>> Note that the bare-bones output from Linux itself for the processor
>>> features can be found by just catting /proc/cpuinfo:
>>>
>>> _[/root]_(root@lm)⭕_
>>> # cat /proc/cpuinfo | head -28 processor : 0 vendor_id :
> AuthenticAMD
>>> cpu family : 23 model : 49 model name : AMD Ryzen
> Threadripper 3970X
>>> 32-Core Processor stepping : 0 microcode : 0x8301039 cpu
> MHz :
>>> 2200.000 cache size : 512 KB physical id : 0 siblings : 64 core
> id : 0
>>> cpu cores : 32 apicid : 0 initial apicid : 0
> fpu : yes fpu_exception
>>> : yes cpuid level : 16 wp : yes flags : fpu vme
> de pse tsc msr pae
>>> mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2
>>> ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc rep_good
>>> nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid extd_apicid aperfmperf rapl pni
>>> pclmulqdq monitor ssse3 fma cx16 sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt aes xsave
>>> avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy abm sse4a
>>> misalignsse 3dnowprefetch osvw ibs skinit wdt tce topoext perfctr_core
>>> perfctr_nb bpext perfctr_llc mwaitx cpb cat_l3 cdp_l3 hw_pstate ssbd
>>> mba ibpb stibp vmmcall fsgsbase bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 cqm rdt_a rdseed
>>> adx smap clflushopt clwb sha_ni xsaveopt xsavec xgetbv1 cqm_llc
>>> cqm_occup_llc cqm_mbm_total cqm_mbm_local clzero irperf xsaveerptr
>>> rdpru wbnoinvd arat npt lbrv svm_lock nrip_save tsc_scale vmcb_clean
>>> flushbyasid decodeassists pausefilter pfthreshold avic v_vmsave_vmload
>>> vgif v_spec_ctrl umip rdpid overflow_recov succor smca sev sev_es bugs
>>> : sysret_ss_attrs spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass retbleed
>>> smt_rsb srso bogomips : 7400.42 TLB size : 3072 4K pages
> clflush size :
>>> 64 cache_alignment : 64 address sizes : 43 bits physical, 48
> bits
>>> virtual power management: ts ttp tm hwpstate cpb eff_freq_ro [13] [14]
>>> [... repeat 63 more times]
>>>
>>> You can't expect the kernel itself to be too flashy with its output.
>>
>>
>> Printing meaningful descriptions in sorted order isn't 'flashy', and
>> should be expected. But the powers that be decided not to:
>>
>> https://docs.kernel.org/arch/x86/cpuinfo.html
>>
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> "The list of feature flags in /proc/cpuinfo is not complete and
>> represents an ill-fated attempt from long time ago to put feature flags
>> in an easy to find place for userspace.
>> ...
>> Regarding implementation, flags appearing in /proc/cpuinfo have an
>> X86_FEATURE definition in arch/x86/include/asm/cpufeatures.h."
>>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is as far as I read in your original message. I see now
> that you added more:
>
>>
>> If you look at cpufeatures.h (and at the shell script that extracts the
>> flags - arch/x86/kernel/cpu/mkcapflags.sh), you see it's a minor code
>> change to extract the flag description along with the flag, and sort and
>> output the data correctly.
>>
>> But doing it right would also require someone to maintain the entries in
>> cpufeatures.h. Sounds like a job for YOU, who made big money with
>> Linux. Time to give back.

On Fri, 17 May 2024 18:12:30 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>
>> I've lost five pounds since I decided to stop buying anything from the
>> United States because of the crap that is added to every product. You
>> can deny that too, but it speaks volumes about you.
>
> "the crap that is added to every product"? What products? What
> 'crap'?
>
> More of your hateful lies and delusions about the United States.

MSGs, acesulfame-potassium, aspartame, carageenan, sodium, monocalcium
phosphate, diglycerides of fatty acids, phosphoric acid, potassium
sorbate, disodium diphosphate, etc.. Not only is your government
responsible for some of the worst political garbage in the world, your
producers are poisoning you.

On 5/17/2024 8:03 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 18:12:30 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I've lost five pounds since I decided to stop buying anything from the
>>> United States because of the crap that is added to every product. You
>>> can deny that too, but it speaks volumes about you.
>>
>> "the crap that is added to every product"? What products? What
>> 'crap'?
>>
>> More of your hateful lies and delusions about the United States.
>
> MSGs, acesulfame-potassium, aspartame, carageenan, sodium, monocalcium
> phosphate, diglycerides of fatty acids, phosphoric acid, potassium
> sorbate, disodium diphosphate, etc.. Not only is your government
> responsible for some of the worst political garbage in the world, your
> producers are poisoning you.

Are you saying none of that is in any Canadian food? Are you saying
you're forced to eat it? What ARE you saying?

Don't forget our jigaboos kill White Canadian women.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/09/us/elroy-harrison-cold-case-murder

You know, instead of whining you really should be on your knees sucking
up to every American you see just for the American exceptionalism that
has contributed so much to modern civilization: electricity,
automobiles, airplanes, transistors, computers, telephones, smartphones,
operating systems, programming languages, air conditioning, ball point
pens, Phillip head screws and endless other inventions and discoveries
that make the world what it is today.

On 5/17/2024 8:43 PM, DFS wrote:
> On 5/17/2024 8:03 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> Don't forget our jigaboos kill White Canadian women.
> https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/09/us/elroy-harrison-cold-case-murder

I got that wrong. That jig killed White American women.

On Fri, 17 May 2024 20:43:01 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/17/2024 8:03 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 18:12:30 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've lost five pounds since I decided to stop buying anything from
>>>> the United States because of the crap that is added to every product.
>>>> You can deny that too, but it speaks volumes about you.
>>>
>>> "the crap that is added to every product"? What products? What
>>> 'crap'?
>>>
>>> More of your hateful lies and delusions about the United States.
>>
>> MSGs, acesulfame-potassium, aspartame, carageenan, sodium, monocalcium
>> phosphate, diglycerides of fatty acids, phosphoric acid, potassium
>> sorbate, disodium diphosphate, etc.. Not only is your government
>> responsible for some of the worst political garbage in the world, your
>> producers are poisoning you.
>
>
> Are you saying none of that is in any Canadian food? Are you saying
> you're forced to eat it? What ARE you saying?

There's either less or none of it. Even "organic" food from the United
States can't be trusted because like every other organization there, it is
corrupt. Countless people have died from consuming "organic" products from
the United States which had all sorts of bacteria to a point that they had
to make a Netflix documentary about it.

< snip strawman >

Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Fri, 17 May 2024 18:12:30 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I've lost five pounds since I decided to stop buying anything from the
>>> United States because of the crap that is added to every product. You
>>> can deny that too, but it speaks volumes about you.
>>
>> "the crap that is added to every product"? What products? What
>> 'crap'?
>>
>> More of your hateful lies and delusions about the United States.
>
> MSGs, acesulfame-potassium, aspartame, carageenan, sodium, monocalcium
> phosphate, diglycerides of fatty acids, phosphoric acid, potassium
> sorbate, disodium diphosphate, etc.. Not only is your government
> responsible for some of the worst political garbage in the world, your
> producers are poisoning you.

As a kid, I was drinking a "milkshake" from a carton. I saw the list of
ingredients. I asked my dad, "Dad, what is carrageena?"

He said "It makes hair grow on your prick."

Now you know how I got some of my sense of humor.

--
Q: How many WASPs does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One.

On 5/18/2024 6:36 AM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2024 20:43:01 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 8:03 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 May 2024 18:12:30 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've lost five pounds since I decided to stop buying anything from
>>>>> the United States because of the crap that is added to every product.
>>>>> You can deny that too, but it speaks volumes about you.
>>>>
>>>> "the crap that is added to every product"? What products? What
>>>> 'crap'?
>>>>
>>>> More of your hateful lies and delusions about the United States.
>>>
>>> MSGs, acesulfame-potassium, aspartame, carageenan, sodium, monocalcium
>>> phosphate, diglycerides of fatty acids, phosphoric acid, potassium
>>> sorbate, disodium diphosphate, etc.. Not only is your government
>>> responsible for some of the worst political garbage in the world, your
>>> producers are poisoning you.
>>
>>
>> Are you saying none of that is in any Canadian food? Are you saying
>> you're forced to eat it? What ARE you saying?
>
> There's either less or none of it. Even "organic" food from the United
> States can't be trusted because like every other organization there, it is
> corrupt. Countless people have died from consuming "organic" products from
> the United States which had all sorts of bacteria to a point that they had
> to make a Netflix documentary about it.

Name of the documentary?

On Fri, 17 May 2024 19:18:38 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<6647e5ce$0$6435$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> I tried cpuid -1 (info for only one processor). It output an
> incredible amt of info, 816 lines, but it looks like a bitch to parse.

Thanks for the pointer.

What do you need to parse it for? Is it not "well-formatted" enough?

--
-v

On 18 May 2024 00:03:31 GMT, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote in
<6647f053$0$7070$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On Fri, 17 May 2024 18:12:30 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/17/2024 6:01 PM, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

You are polluting the cpu-x thread with Canadian
right-wing balderdash. (Or maybe Russian; I'm not
willing to try to analyze your forms of weirdness.)

There's a reason you were slated to be kook-of-the-month,
right before the awards went away. Consider that.

I don't always like DFS, but I do agree with his assessment of
your sense of propriety -- or rather, lack thereof.

--
-v

On 5/8/2024 8:36 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Wed, 8 May 2024 11:35:56 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> You give up many of the best applications in the world, and that's FAR
>> from 'next to nothing'.
>
> You would be more credible if you weren't so over the top.

Linux means "I compromised. I wanted to fuck a woman but I jacked off
in a tissue".

> I'm sitting
> next to a Windows 11 laptop and only have to open the lid and push a
> button to access the best applications in the world -- but I don't.

Congrats on your self-control.

> I do bring it up after Patch Tuesday for updates but what exactly are
> those world-beaters that I'm missing out on? I'll get right on it.

MS Office
Notepad++
HWiNFO and AIDA64 and Sandra Lite
Photoshop
AutoCAD and BricsCAD and SolidWorks
SQL Server
ReNamer
irfanview