https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2024/08/17/microsoft-warns-1-billion-windows-10-users-new-windows-11-free-upgrade-decision/

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 8/20/2024 3:15 PM, Joel wrote:

> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2024/08/17/microsoft-warns-1-billion-windows-10-users-new-windows-11-free-upgrade-decision/

You'll recall they made a more blatant 'advocacy' statement a few years ago:

"MS hearts Linux"

They're a tech company that used to sell a Unix version (Xenix). They
make operating systems and compilers, and I'm quite sure many MS
employees have used Linux for years at home.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2024/08/17/microsoft-warns-1-billion-windows-10-users-new-windows-11-free-upgrade-decision/
>
>You'll recall they made a more blatant 'advocacy' statement a few years ago:
>
>"MS hearts Linux"
>
>
>They're a tech company that used to sell a Unix version (Xenix). They
>make operating systems and compilers, and I'm quite sure many MS
>employees have used Linux for years at home.

Sure, you promote their embracing of Linux now, but that was after
they considered it a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare
these "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal
computing? Give me a fuckin' break, DFS, I like you as a person,
don't get me wrong, I was pleased to give you my Winblows product key,
as someone who could actually use it for something worthwhile, when I
had zilch use for it anymore, but Microsoft is not our friend. GNU/
Linux is our friend.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:55:17 -0400, DFS wrote:

> They're a tech company that used to sell a Unix version (Xenix). They
> make operating systems and compilers, and I'm quite sure many MS
> employees have used Linux for years at home.

https://www.os2museum.com/wp/os2-history/os2-1-2-and-1-3/msc6_pwb/

Another blast from the past. That's 6.0 but Microsoft's first attempt a C
was a rebranded Lattice C.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_C

Most of Microsoft's early work was derivative, including Gates' beloved
Altair BASIC. In an era when geeks passed around software Gates showed
them the future (according to Gates)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists

The TinyBASIC project was a 'Fuck you, BIll.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC

Somehow that all happened without Stallman.

On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 23:16:28 -0400, Joel wrote:

> Sure, you promote their embracing of Linux now, but that was after they
> considered it a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare these
> "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal computing?

To be fair a lot of that was Ballmer. It took a while for his bad
decisions to catch up to him.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/ballmer-i-may-have-called-linux-a-cancer-
but-now-i-love-it/

He amy have taken up yoga and become a kinder, gentler asshole.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 23:16:28 -0400, Joel wrote:
>
>> Sure, you promote their embracing of Linux now, but that was after they
>> considered it a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare these
>> "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal computing?
>
> To be fair a lot of that was Ballmer. It took a while for his bad
> decisions to catch up to him.
>
> https://www.zdnet.com/article/ballmer-i-may-have-called-linux-a-cancer-but-now-i-love-it/
>
> He amy have taken up yoga and become a kinder, gentler asshole.

I clicked on the local news box on my google tv the other day, and saw an aging
but still loud Steve Ballmer yammering about H-1B visas.

I thought it was part of the local news, but as it went on I realized it was
not and traversed to the local new channel by another route.

Anyway, the old bastard is still alive and kickin'.

--
You will forget that you ever knew me.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Tue, 20 Aug 2024 22:55:17 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> They're a tech company that used to sell a Unix version (Xenix). They
>> make operating systems and compilers, and I'm quite sure many MS
>> employees have used Linux for years at home.
>
> https://www.os2museum.com/wp/os2-history/os2-1-2-and-1-3/msc6_pwb/
>
> Another blast from the past. That's 6.0 but Microsoft's first attempt a C
> was a rebranded Lattice C.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lattice_C
>
> Most of Microsoft's early work was derivative, including Gates' beloved
> Altair BASIC. In an era when geeks passed around software Gates showed
> them the future (according to Gates)
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists
>
> The TinyBASIC project was a 'Fuck you, BIll.'
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_BASIC
>
> Somehow that all happened without Stallman.

A great number of Microsoft products were either bought or copped.

Visio, Powerpoint, Word, Skype, Yammer, LinkedIn, GitHub, ....

Windows NT was created by acquiring Dave Cutler from DEC.

--
His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred
to drop the Maha- and the -atman, however, and called himself Sam. He never
claimed to be a god. But then, he never claimed not to be a god.
-- Roger Zelazny, "Lord of Light"

rbowman wrote:

> Joel wrote:
>>
>> Sure, you promote their embracing of Linux now, but that was after they
>> considered it a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare these
>> "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal computing?
>
>To be fair a lot of that was Ballmer. It took a while for his bad
>decisions to catch up to him.
>
>https://www.zdnet.com/article/ballmer-i-may-have-called-linux-a-cancer-but-now-i-love-it/

Yeah, *now* he admits that Free softare advocates were right, all
along.

>He amy have taken up yoga and become a kinder, gentler asshole.

Just another greedy, selfish prick. He got his, at least.

--
"Smith's words [https://tinyurl.com/Dumb-FSck] are meaningless unless
MS open sources most of their products" - DumFSck, lying shamelessly

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> Sure, you promote their embracing of Linux now, but that was after they
>> considered it a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare these
>> "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal computing?
>
>To be fair a lot of that was Ballmer. It took a while for his bad
>decisions to catch up to him.
>
>https://www.zdnet.com/article/ballmer-i-may-have-called-linux-a-cancer-
>but-now-i-love-it/
>
>He amy have taken up yoga and become a kinder, gentler asshole.

Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate M$ supporting Linux, today,
they've done a reasonably fair job with that, seeming to genuinely
embrace open source as a concept. I try to not live in the past. But
nevertheless, to call Linux "cancer" was rather extreme.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 8/20/2024 11:16 PM, Joel wrote:
> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>>> https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2024/08/17/microsoft-warns-1-billion-windows-10-users-new-windows-11-free-upgrade-decision/
>>
>> You'll recall they made a more blatant 'advocacy' statement a few years ago:
>>
>> "MS hearts Linux"
>>
>>
>> They're a tech company that used to sell a Unix version (Xenix). They
>> make operating systems and compilers, and I'm quite sure many MS
>> employees have used Linux for years at home.
>
>
> Sure, you promote their embracing of Linux now,

I'm not promoting anything. I'm just stating that Microsoft previously
made very clear their like for Linux.

> but that was after
> they considered it a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare
> these "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal
> computing?

They're an intensely competitive company. Treating Linux as a threat is
what they should do. It took them a while to figure out you can't kill
Linux (or cockroaches). So they decided it was better to join - or
enhance interoperability - than fight.

Also, recall Microsoft has had a *nix component available continuously
for Windows for 25 years, going back to NT. WSL is the latest tool for
consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.

> Give me a fuckin' break, DFS, I like you as a person,
> don't get me wrong, I was pleased to give you my Winblows product key,
> as someone who could actually use it for something worthwhile, when I
> had zilch use for it anymore,

I do 'preciate that.

> but Microsoft is not our friend.

Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. Forcing you to login to an
acct on their servers just to use their software - and there are more
and more such companies every day - doesn't seem like the action of a
'friend' company.

But I'm 100% sure MS does it to help users enjoy their vision of a
Windows ecosystem. The big problem is MS does way too much to force it
on you - sometimes it's a pain to opt out, and sometimes you can't.

A recent Win11 update added a cool new file compression utility to the
right-click menu:

https://imgur.com/a/jbURYsx

And don't forget: MS was friendly enough to make you fall in love with
Windows.

> GNU/Linux is our friend.

The friend that calls you from jail wanting you to bail them out.

DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

>> they considered it [Linux] a threat, the Kamala Harris to M$'s Trump, how dare
>> these "open source" psychos impede our ownership of personal
>> computing?
>
>They're an intensely competitive company. Treating Linux as a threat is
>what they should do. It took them a while to figure out you can't kill
>Linux (or cockroaches). So they decided it was better to join - or
>enhance interoperability - than fight.
>
>Also, recall Microsoft has had a *nix component available continuously
>for Windows for 25 years, going back to NT. WSL is the latest tool for
>consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.

They could have coexisted all along.

>> Give me a fuckin' break, DFS, I like you as a person,
>> don't get me wrong, I was pleased to give you my Winblows product key,
>> as someone who could actually use it for something worthwhile, when I
>> had zilch use for it anymore,
>
>I do 'preciate that.

To be honest, I had gotten the $200 worth out of it already. It ran
me with Win10/11 for a couple years, till my box was ready for Linux.
So to give you the key is just a way to make it useful, to someone
else.

>> but Microsoft is not our friend.
>
>Sometimes they are, sometimes they're not. Forcing you to login to an
>acct on their servers just to use their software - and there are more
>and more such companies every day - doesn't seem like the action of a
>'friend' company.

There are real advantages to having a Microsoft account with Windows,
though.

>But I'm 100% sure MS does it to help users enjoy their vision of a
>Windows ecosystem. The big problem is MS does way too much to force it
>on you - sometimes it's a pain to opt out, and sometimes you can't.
>
>A recent Win11 update added a cool new file compression utility to the
>right-click menu:
>
>https://imgur.com/a/jbURYsx
>
>And don't forget: MS was friendly enough to make you fall in love with
>Windows.

Oh I did at first, yeah. Seeing Win10 20H2 on this machine,
initially, was amazing, as was Win11. But it got played out.

>> GNU/Linux is our friend.
>
>The friend that calls you from jail wanting you to bail them out.

I would more call it the opposite, actually, that they bailed me out
of using Winblows.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 07:13:12 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I clicked on the local news box on my google tv the other day, and saw
> an aging but still loud Steve Ballmer yammering about H-1B visas.
>
> I thought it was part of the local news, but as it went on I realized it
> was not and traversed to the local new channel by another route.
>
> Anyway, the old bastard is still alive and kickin'.

I'm sure he loves them. Back in the '70s and '80s when newspaper
employment ads were still alive the Sunday edition of the Boston Globe
would have ads listing all sorts of qualification with a janitor's salary.
"We tried but we couldn't hire a US citizen so we need that H-1B
exemption.'

My favorite was one that called for three years of Ada experience before
their was a working Ada compiler.

Irwin Feerst ran for IEEE president in an attempt to curtail the abuses
and lost. The IEEE stated they were a professional organization that
wasn't interested in protecting professionals. That's when I quit.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:18 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Also, recall Microsoft has had a *nix component available continuously
> for Windows for 25 years, going back to NT. WSL is the latest tool for
> consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.

The POSIX subsystem was not very useful other than for meeting the FIPS
requirements at the time. Windows Services for UNIX was useless too. Our
legacy software uses the MKS NutCracker runtime. It's proprietary but
avoids the hoops of Cygwin or Mwin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKS_Toolkit

If MS had a working subsystem it would have been used.

On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:18 -0400, DFS wrote:

> WSL is the latest tool for consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.

Face it: WSL is a bit crap. WSL1 didn’t work right, which is why they gave
up and brought in a (nearly) pukka Linux kernel in WSL2. That still
hiccups in some situations, because all the file access has to go through
the Windows kernel with its mandatory file locking. Even without the
hiccups, that still slows things down.

What’s the bet that some future version of Windows will give up and
delegate all file handling to the Linux kernel?

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:18 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> WSL is the latest tool for consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.
>
>Face it: WSL is a bit crap. WSL1 didn’t work right, which is why they gave
>up and brought in a (nearly) pukka Linux kernel in WSL2. That still
>hiccups in some situations, because all the file access has to go through
>the Windows kernel with its mandatory file locking. Even without the
>hiccups, that still slows things down.
>
>What’s the bet that some future version of Windows will give up and
>delegate all file handling to the Linux kernel?

WSL 2 is just something for developers to play with, not a serious
Linux environment within Winblows, I honestly don't like the VM
concept in general, every time I've created one it just seems useless.
Wine is what lets me use this NNTP client (Forte Agent), and a couple
other key apps from Windows, but Linux is a full OS itself, I don't
have a purpose for a VM.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

Joel wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>
>>Also, recall Microsoft has had a *nix component available continuously
>>for Windows for 25 years, going back to NT.

:-D The POSIX subsystem was a joke.

"Windows C Runtime Library and Windows Sockets API implement commonly used
POSIX API functions for file, time, environment, and socket access, although
the support remains largely incomplete and not fully interoperable with
POSIX-compliant implementations."

> <snip>
>
>>> GNU/Linux is our friend.
>>
>>The friend that calls you from jail wanting you to bail them out.
>
> I would more call it the opposite, actually, that they bailed me out
> of using Winblows.

They used to claim that Linux was free, as in "free puppy".

--
Having nothing, nothing can he lose.
-- William Shakespeare, "Henry VI"

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:18 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> Also, recall Microsoft has had a *nix component available continuously
>> for Windows for 25 years, going back to NT. WSL is the latest tool for
>> consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.
>
> The POSIX subsystem was not very useful other than for meeting the FIPS
> requirements at the time. Windows Services for UNIX was useless too. Our
> legacy software uses the MKS NutCracker runtime. It's proprietary but
> avoids the hoops of Cygwin or Mwin.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKS_Toolkit
>
> If MS had a working subsystem it would have been used.

I bought and used, personally, MKS Toolkit, quit some time ago.

A funny: the book about MKS Source Integrity (derived from rcs) had
a page showing a directory layout, and one of the directories was
named "shit".

--
It is a wise father that knows his own child.
-- William Shakespeare, "The Merchant of Venice"

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 08:45:49 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us>
wrote in <va7btt$e5c1$7@dont-email.me>:

> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:18 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> Also, recall Microsoft has had a *nix component available continuously
>>> for Windows for 25 years, going back to NT. WSL is the latest tool
>>> for consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.
>>
>> The POSIX subsystem was not very useful other than for meeting the FIPS
>> requirements at the time. Windows Services for UNIX was useless too.
>> Our legacy software uses the MKS NutCracker runtime. It's proprietary
>> but avoids the hoops of Cygwin or Mwin.
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKS_Toolkit
>>
>> If MS had a working subsystem it would have been used.
>
> I bought and used, personally, MKS Toolkit, quit some time ago.
>
> A funny: the book about MKS Source Integrity (derived from rcs) had a
> page showing a directory layout, and one of the directories was named
> "shit".

In the 90's, I once showed off a perl program that did some text
processing on output from the mainframe. I didn't even think
about it, but one of the variables was named "hit", and it was
a scalar, so it was named "$hit". Didn't even think about it until
one of the COBOL programmers started laughing.

BTW, about rcs...I still use it to keep track of small file
edits. It's just so quick and convenient when you don't
want all the overhead of git.

--
-v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti
OS: Linux 6.11.0-rc4 Release: Mint 21.3 Mem: 258G
"Foolproof operation: All parameters are hard coded."

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 04:42 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 14:23:18 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> WSL is the latest tool for consumers to use Linux alongside Windows.
>
> Face it: WSL is a bit crap. WSL1 didn’t work right, which is why they gave
> up and brought in a (nearly) pukka Linux kernel in WSL2. That still
> hiccups in some situations, because all the file access has to go through
> the Windows kernel with its mandatory file locking. Even without the
> hiccups, that still slows things down.
>
> What’s the bet that some future version of Windows will give up and
> delegate all file handling to the Linux kernel?

I'd guess they would keep using Windows file handling forever to "keep
backwards compatibility"
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 08:45:49 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I bought and used, personally, MKS Toolkit, quit some time ago.

It works. The X server has had a few problems but the current PTC one is
decent. I don't get involved with licensing but I think our developer
license is 5K a year and the runtime license for the clients is $100.

Luckily PTC didn't scrap it. They bought MKS for its lifecycle management
product and the whole cross platform toolkit was 'and by the way'.

I've worked on one interface that's a source of confusion. It started as
Cerulean for mobile display terminals in police cars, fire engines, and so
forth. The name has changed at least five times as companies bought it,
usually for a technology that wasn't the mobile link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_data_terminal

I still refer to MDTs although now they're labtops with a web based
products and I call that particular interface Aether because that's what
it was when I worked with it. Other programmers and ops people call it
something else depending on when they were involved with it. "Oh, you
mean ..."

On 22 Aug 2024 12:58:16 GMT, vallor wrote:

> In the 90's, I once showed off a perl program that did some text
> processing on output from the mainframe. I didn't even think about it,
> but one of the variables was named "hit", and it was a scalar, so it was
> named "$hit". Didn't even think about it until one of the COBOL
> programmers started laughing.

One of the programmers wrote a database interface that he named 'dooby
dooby daemon'. It's still in the source tree as doobydoobyd though that
isn't its public name.

About that time we had a programming meeting about professionalism and
snarky comments that might wind up in log files or if someone ran strings
on the executable.

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 08:42:22 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> "Windows C Runtime Library and Windows Sockets API implement commonly
> used POSIX API functions for file, time, environment, and socket
> access, although the support remains largely incomplete and not fully
> interoperable with POSIX-compliant implementations."

Yeah, we've been burned by WSA functions that don't act as you would
expect or return ambiguous error codes.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 22 Aug 2024 12:58:16 GMT, vallor wrote:
>
>> In the 90's, I once showed off a perl program that did some text
>> processing on output from the mainframe. I didn't even think about it,
>> but one of the variables was named "hit", and it was a scalar, so it was
>> named "$hit". Didn't even think about it until one of the COBOL
>> programmers started laughing.
>
> One of the programmers wrote a database interface that he named 'dooby
> dooby daemon'. It's still in the source tree as doobydoobyd though that
> isn't its public name.
>
> About that time we had a programming meeting about professionalism and
> snarky comments that might wind up in log files or if someone ran strings
> on the executable.

Apparently both Linux and the (years ago) leaked Windows code had some rather
"pithy" comments from developers. I heard about one guy who used scatological
works as for-loop indices (for example).

--
FORTUNE PROVIDES QUESTIONS FOR THE GREAT ANSWERS: #15
A: The Royal Canadian Mounted Police.
Q: What was the greatest achievement in taxidermy?

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 16:46:33 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> Apparently both Linux and the (years ago) leaked Windows code had some
> rather "pithy" comments from developers. I heard about one guy who used
> scatological works as for-loop indices (for example).

I worked with one programmer who used fruit. Until you got used to it,
'Mango? WTF?'

For a real mind-bender try C code that is not in English. Obviously C
doesn't care but when all the variables, functions, and so forth use
German words you realize how much context is implied.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 16:46:33 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> Apparently both Linux and the (years ago) leaked Windows code had some
>> rather "pithy" comments from developers. I heard about one guy who used
>> scatological works as for-loop indices (for example).
>
> I worked with one programmer who used fruit. Until you got used to it,
> 'Mango? WTF?'
>
> For a real mind-bender try C code that is not in English. Obviously C
> doesn't care but when all the variables, functions, and so forth use
> German words you realize how much context is implied.

What, the code wasn't commented? (In German :-))

--
My dear Bagginses and Boffins, and my dear Tooks and Brandybucks,
and Grubbs, and Chubbs, and Burrowses, and Hornblowers, and Bolgers,
Bracegirdles, Goodbodies, Brockhouses and Proudfoots. Also my good
Sackville Bagginses that I welcome back at last to Bag End. Today is my
one hundred and eleventh birthday: I am eleventy-one today!"
-- J. R. R. Tolkien