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On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-10-23 2:56 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> If you mean “large cities”, those are in fact the backbone of your
>> economy. The US isn’t an agrarian society any more.
>>
>> Why should the value of someone’s vote depend on where they live?
>
> If the people in those "large cities" do not receive food, what will
> happen to them?
They won’t be able to make the machines that the farmers use to farm their
crops. There would be no electricity generation or fuel supply, no
manufacturing of farmhouses, no laying of roads for the trucks to supply
feed and fertilizer and seed and take away produce. Nobody to pay the
farmers. Nobody to educate them on how to grow their crops.
The whole system collapses.
On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 03:36:31 -0400, Joel wrote:
> Yeah, if we assume that the 2020 popular vote would've been about the
> same in a true national election, Biden won by a good amount, and yet it
> was still remarkably close in the state-by-state race.
I have heard it said that, if the US President was elected by popular
vote, it’s likely a Republican would never occupy the White House again.
But then, that’s their own fault. Each time they lose an election, instead
of trying to fix it by coming up with policies that appeal to a broader
range of voters, currently their strategy seems to be to swing even
further to the extreme right.
On 2024-10-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-23 2:37 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 11:33:58 -0700 (Seattle), Relf wrote:
>>>
>>>> You(rBowman)Replied(to Crump):
>>>>>> "We" who don't vote for the collapse of civilization, if I have to
>>>>>> spell it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have already voted. Let the collapse begin.
>>>>
>>>> Did you vote for trump ?
>>>> I thought people here skipped that box.
>>>
>>> Doesn't really matter. They'll be having hockey playoffs in hell before
>>> Montana goes to Harris. The interesting stuff was down ticket,
>>> particularly the Senate race.
>>
>> Same with Idaho — I think most of the Califorians who are moving here are
>> coming here to get away from California.
>
> Unfortunately, most of them have learned nothing and will vote for the
> people who will implement the same kind of idiocy in their next location.
So far it hasn't been working out that way.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
On 2024-10-24 1:35 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-10-23 2:56 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> If you mean “large cities”, those are in fact the backbone of your
>>> economy. The US isn’t an agrarian society any more.
>>>
>>> Why should the value of someone’s vote depend on where they live?
>>
>> If the people in those "large cities" do not receive food, what will
>> happen to them?
>
> They won’t be able to make the machines that the farmers use to farm their
> crops. There would be no electricity generation or fuel supply, no
> manufacturing of farmhouses, no laying of roads for the trucks to supply
> feed and fertilizer and seed and take away produce. Nobody to pay the
> farmers. Nobody to educate them on how to grow their crops.
>
> The whole system collapses.
This is pure idiocy, just like your IVF strawman to try to discredit
anyone who is against infanticide. City people don't have a monopoly on
he production of machines. In fact, most of those city people can barely
figure out how to insert a plug into its socket. You're suggesting that
all city people are engineers much in the same that your stupid allies
suggest that the rapists entering the West illegally are all engineers
and doctors. I always thought that the left had _some_ intelligence but
it is becoming increasingly clear that it is composed of nothing other
than stupid people. I'm now remembering why I put your name into my filter.
--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.
On 2024-10-24 2:15 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-10-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2024-10-23 2:37 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 11:33:58 -0700 (Seattle), Relf wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You(rBowman)Replied(to Crump):
>>>>>>> "We" who don't vote for the collapse of civilization, if I have to
>>>>>>> spell it out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have already voted. Let the collapse begin.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you vote for trump ?
>>>>> I thought people here skipped that box.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't really matter. They'll be having hockey playoffs in hell before
>>>> Montana goes to Harris. The interesting stuff was down ticket,
>>>> particularly the Senate race.
>>>
>>> Same with Idaho — I think most of the Califorians who are moving here are
>>> coming here to get away from California.
>>
>> Unfortunately, most of them have learned nothing and will vote for the
>> people who will implement the same kind of idiocy in their next location.
>
> So far it hasn't been working out that way.
>
Let's hope it remains that way. I've been told that Texas would be a
utopia for me (by someone who used to live there). I wouldn't want it to
change if that is indeed the case.
--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 05:35:00 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> On 2024-10-23 2:56 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> If you mean “large cities”, those are in fact the backbone of your
>>> economy. The US isn’t an agrarian society any more.
>>>
>>> Why should the value of someone’s vote depend on where they live?
>>
>> If the people in those "large cities" do not receive food, what will
>> happen to them?
>
> They won’t be able to make the machines that the farmers use to farm
> their crops. There would be no electricity generation or fuel supply, no
> manufacturing of farmhouses, no laying of roads for the trucks to supply
> feed and fertilizer and seed and take away produce. Nobody to pay the
> farmers. Nobody to educate them on how to grow their crops.
>
> The whole system collapses.
You are so fucking ignorant it's pathetic. Do you really think they
manufacture tractors in New York City, Baltimore, or LA? Harvest the
lumber needed to build houses? Drill wells for oil and gas? Mine coal?
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 09:04:47 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> Let's hope it remains that way. I've been told that Texas would be a
> utopia for me (by someone who used to live there). I wouldn't want it to
> change if that is indeed the case.
Back in the '80s I had an urge to move to Texas. I interviewed with MosTek
which was a going concern back then. On the final approach to the Dallas -
Fort Worth airport I looked around at the treeless plains and figured it
wasn't going to work.
Texas is like Oklahoma with a better PR team. The other problem I have is
damn near every square inch is private property. Even back east the
Adirondack Park was managed as a wilderness by the state and the Greens
and Whites were National Forests.
Texas has 4 national forests but they're all in east Texas and are pretty
flat. It's like hiking in the Ocala NF in Florida.
On 2024-10-24 3:19 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 05:35:00 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-10-23 2:56 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you mean “large cities”, those are in fact the backbone of your
>>>> economy. The US isn’t an agrarian society any more.
>>>>
>>>> Why should the value of someone’s vote depend on where they live?
>>>
>>> If the people in those "large cities" do not receive food, what will
>>> happen to them?
>>
>> They won’t be able to make the machines that the farmers use to farm
>> their crops. There would be no electricity generation or fuel supply, no
>> manufacturing of farmhouses, no laying of roads for the trucks to supply
>> feed and fertilizer and seed and take away produce. Nobody to pay the
>> farmers. Nobody to educate them on how to grow their crops.
>>
>> The whole system collapses.
>
> You are so fucking ignorant it's pathetic.
Agreed with that assessment.
--
CrudeSausage
Paleoconservative, Catholic, Christ is king.
rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
> Back in the '80s I had an urge to move to Texas. I interviewed with MosTek
> which was a going concern back then.
I did too! I remember the guy showing me around bragging about the grindset
hustle boy thing, where you work your ass off for long hours.
My father's comment was "That's where they killed Kennedy."
I decided to stay in grad school, but changed fields (physics to hearing
science).
--
If you have received a letter inviting you to speak at the dedication of a
new cat hospital, and you hate cats, your reply, declining the invitation,
does not necessarily have to cover the full range of your emotions. You must
make it clear that you will not attend, but you do not have to let fly at cats.
The writer of the letter asked a civil question; attack cats, then, only if
you can do so with good humor, good taste, and in such a way that your answer
will be courteous as well as responsive. Since you are out of sympathy with
cats, you may quite properly give this as a reason for not appearing at the
dedication ceremonies of a cat hospital. But bear in mind that your opinion
of cats was not sought, only your services as a speaker. Try to keep things
straight.
-- Strunk and White, "The Elements of Style"
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 09:03:42 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2024-10-24 1:35 a.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> If the people in those "large cities" do not receive food, what will
>>> happen to them?
>>
>> They won’t be able to make the machines that the farmers use to farm
>> their crops. There would be no electricity generation or fuel supply,
>> no manufacturing of farmhouses, no laying of roads for the trucks to
>> supply feed and fertilizer and seed and take away produce. Nobody to
>> pay the farmers. Nobody to educate them on how to grow their crops.
>>
>> The whole system collapses.
>
> City people don't have a monopoly on he production of machines.
Machines, including farming machines, are complicated things. Most of the
modern ones need to be built with the help of other machines. There need
to be support machines for transport (of raw materials, workers, finished
products), fuelling, communications etc. And for keeping track of orders
and shipments and payments and all that. This is why you don’t see big
factories out in the middle of corn fields.
Anyway, getting back to the point: why should the value of your vote
depend on where you live? If you believe that all your citizens are
“created equal”, then shouldn’t their votes count equally, too?
On 24 Oct 2024 19:19:03 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 05:35:00 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 12:53:13 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> If the people in those "large cities" do not receive food, what will
>>> happen to them?
>>
>> They won’t be able to make the machines that the farmers use to farm
>> their crops. There would be no electricity generation or fuel supply,
>> no manufacturing of farmhouses, no laying of roads for the trucks to
>> supply feed and fertilizer and seed and take away produce. Nobody to
>> pay the farmers. Nobody to educate them on how to grow their crops.
>>
>> The whole system collapses.
>
> Do you really think they manufacture tractors in New York City,
> Baltimore, or LA?
Whether it’s tractors, parts to make the tractors, parts to make the
factories that make the tractors, schools to train the designers and
makers of the tractor parts, schools to train the farmers, schools to
train the designers and builders of the factories, schools to train the
trainers ... you don’t see these operating in the middle of some corn
field, do you?
> Harvest the lumber needed to build houses?
Harvesting the raw lumber is the only part that happens in the forest. All
the rest of what they call the “value-add” happens in an urban factory
somewhere. Typically multiple stages, in multiple factories.
> Drill wells for oil and gas? Mine coal?
Same thing. Once the raw material is obtained in situ, all the rest
requires the full complexity of urban infrastructure to deal with.
On 23 Oct 2024 19:46:30 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> Do you know how the Electoral College is formed?
I know about the “Three-Fifths Compromise”. That allowed the
slave-owning states to get more say in the election of the President
augmented to some extent by their slave population, without those
slaves getting any actual votes. Clever, don’t you think?
> Washington DC gets 3 votes despite not being a state.
I wonder why there is so much opposition to it becoming a state ...
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment>
On 24 Oct 2024 19:48:27 GMT, rbowman wrote:
> The other problem I have is damn near every square inch is private
> property.
You think the Government would do a better job owning some of that land?
On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 10:13:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
> You can't reason with progressives.
Still waiting for an answer to my question about why, if you believe all
your citizens are “created equal”, you don’t want their votes to count
equally?
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>On 23 Oct 2024 19:46:30 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> Do you know how the Electoral College is formed?
>
>I know about the “Three-Fifths Compromise”. That allowed the
>slave-owning states to get more say in the election of the President
>augmented to some extent by their slave population, without those
>slaves getting any actual votes. Clever, don’t you think?
It was fucked up, and then they had the audacity to secede because it
was threatened. Fuck crackers.
>> Washington DC gets 3 votes despite not being a state.
>
>I wonder why there is so much opposition to it becoming a state ...
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment>
It would be a black-plurality, highly safely Democratic state, so the
redneck states will never agree to it.
--
Joel W. Crump
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.
Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 22:48:35 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Same thing. Once the raw material is obtained in situ, all the rest
> requires the full complexity of urban infrastructure to deal with.
Either you don't have a clue or you're defining urban as any place with
more than 10 people.
On 10/24/2024 6:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 10:13:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> You can't reason with progressives.
>
> Still waiting for an answer to my question about why, if you believe all
> your citizens are “created equal”, you don’t want their votes to count
> equally?
Slimer is Canadian.
"all mean are created equal" is from the US Declaration of Independence.
It's hogwash of course.
Only White property owners should be able to vote in the US.
On 10/24/2024 7:09 PM, Joel wrote:
> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On 23 Oct 2024 19:46:30 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> Do you know how the Electoral College is formed?
>>
>> I know about the “Three-Fifths Compromise”. That allowed the
>> slave-owning states to get more say in the election of the President
>> augmented to some extent by their slave population, without those
>> slaves getting any actual votes. Clever, don’t you think?
>
>
> It was fucked up, and then they had the audacity to secede because it
> was threatened. Fuck crackers.
>
>
>>> Washington DC gets 3 votes despite not being a state.
>>
>> I wonder why there is so much opposition to it becoming a state ...
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment>
>
>
> It would be a black-plurality, highly safely Democratic state, so the
> redneck states will never agree to it.
No wonder you identify with jigaboos; you're an irresponsible
welfare-sucker that's high all the time, just like them.
DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 10/24/2024 6:57 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 10:13:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>> You can't reason with progressives.
>>
>> Still waiting for an answer to my question about why, if you believe all
>> your citizens are “created equal”, you don’t want their votes to count
>> equally?
>
>Slimer is Canadian.
>
>"all mean are created equal" is from the US Declaration of Independence.
>
>It's hogwash of course.
>
>Only White property owners should be able to vote in the US.
So even I am excluded, as a renter?
--
Joel W. Crump
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.
Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 10/24/2024 7:09 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 23 Oct 2024 19:46:30 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Washington DC gets 3 votes despite not being a state.
>>>
>>> I wonder why there is so much opposition to it becoming a state ...
>>>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_Voting_Rights_Amendment>
>>
>> It would be a black-plurality, highly safely Democratic state, so the
>> redneck states will never agree to it.
>
>No wonder you identify with jigaboos; you're an irresponsible
>welfare-sucker that's high all the time, just like them.
I work very hard, sir, maybe not for money, but that's not my role,
and it's not for you to judge.
--
Joel W. Crump
Amendment XIV
Section 1.
[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.
Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 16:23:15 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> Back in the '80s I had an urge to move to Texas. I interviewed with
>> MosTek which was a going concern back then.
>
> I did too! I remember the guy showing me around bragging about the
> grindset hustle boy thing, where you work your ass off for long hours.
>
> My father's comment was "That's where they killed Kennedy."
The most impressive thing in the area was Billy Bob's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bob's_Texas
No Show Jones didn't. In later years I got to see more of Texas but it's
not a place I need to go back to.
On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 22:56:02 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On 24 Oct 2024 19:48:27 GMT, rbowman wrote:
>
>> The other problem I have is damn near every square inch is private
>> property.
>
> You think the Government would do a better job owning some of that land?
https://ballotpedia.org/Federal_land_ownership_by_state
For my purposes, yes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_forest_(United_States)
"In the United States, national forest is a classification of protected
and managed federal lands that are largely forest and woodland areas. They
are owned collectively by the American people through the federal
government and managed by the United States Forest Service, a division of
the United States Department of Agriculture. "
That means:
https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/lolo/recreation/recarea/?
recid=10273&actid=93
https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/lolo/recarea/?recid=10277
https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/lolo/recarea/?recid=10275
Those are developed recreation areas that are about a 15 minute drive
away. There are many more thousands of acres managed by the FS where you
can hike, camp, hunt, and fish.
While the forest management has been controversial it has prevented the
clear cutting that happened on privately owned land. In the 19th century
the government gave the railroads sections (640 acres, 1 mile square) of
land supposedly to fill their needs for timber. Those ultimately wound up
in the hands of timber companies who cut everything in sight. They're now
in the real estate business since a forest can take up to 100 years to
regrow in a semi-arid climate and they're not patient.
The other organization is the BLM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Management
They're more about prairies so don't manage too much land in this area.
Again you can hike, camp, and hunt. If you camp you may wake up surrounded
by cows since it's multi-use and the BLM has grazing leases.
By contrast, less than 2% od the land in Texas is held by Federal
agencies. Step off the road to take a walk and you'll be looking at a No
Trespassing sign. If you want to hunt, you can pay a hefty fee to a
provate landowner.
On 10/24/24 18:59, rbowman wrote:
>
> The most impressive thing in the area was Billy Bob's.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Bob's_Texas
>
> No Show Jones didn't. In later years I got to see more of Texas but it's
> not a place I need to go back to.
It would be so for someonw who loves country music.
"Engineers" are simple creatures. They're not simple because they're
"engineers". They're "engineers" because they're simple.
On 2024-10-24, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2024-10-24 2:15 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-10-23, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2024-10-23 2:37 a.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-10-22, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 22 Oct 2024 11:33:58 -0700 (Seattle), Relf wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You(rBowman)Replied(to Crump):
>>>>>>>> "We" who don't vote for the collapse of civilization, if I have to
>>>>>>>> spell it out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have already voted. Let the collapse begin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Did you vote for trump ?
>>>>>> I thought people here skipped that box.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't really matter. They'll be having hockey playoffs in hell before
>>>>> Montana goes to Harris. The interesting stuff was down ticket,
>>>>> particularly the Senate race.
>>>>
>>>> Same with Idaho — I think most of the Califorians who are moving here are
>>>> coming here to get away from California.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, most of them have learned nothing and will vote for the
>>> people who will implement the same kind of idiocy in their next location.
>>
>> So far it hasn't been working out that way.
>>
>
> Let's hope it remains that way. I've been told that Texas would be a
> utopia for me (by someone who used to live there). I wouldn't want it to
> change if that is indeed the case.
If you like heat and humidity you would love Texas. I lived there. I'm not
anxious to ever return.
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
On 2024-10-24, Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 10:13:16 -0400, CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> You can't reason with progressives.
>
> Still waiting for an answer to my question about why, if you believe all
> your citizens are “created equal”, you don’t want their votes to count
> equally?
Because the U.S. is a collection of sovereign states, not a single entity.
When the states entered the Union they did so with certain checks and
balances. Power in the United States is supposed to be bottom up. Local
government is supposed to have the most influence on its citizens, then
county, then the state, then the Federal government. The Federal government
has used extortion and tax money (they shouldn't have gotten) to attain
power that was never granted to them in the Constitution.
So the answer is, each state is its own sovereign entity and the checks and
balances in our country where designed so that no big state could run
roughshod over the smaller states.
Got it now?
--
“Evil is not able to create anything new, it can only distort and destroy
what has been invented or made by the forces of good.” —J.R.R. Tolkien
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