-hh wrote:
> On 9/30/24 11:51 PM, T wrote:
>> On 9/30/24 15:23, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>> On 9/30/2024 2:38 PM,Fuckwit  -hh wrote:
>>>>> On 9/30/24 1:08 PM, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>>>> [Default]  Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:vddo52$1u779$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/29/24 22:58, me too wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And when the populace is asked what percentage that "fair
>>>>>>>> share" is, it is usually under what they are already
>>>>>>>> paying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it's not - not when a teacher, or nurse pays a greater
>>>>>>> percentage of
>>>>>>> their income than a billionaire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They STILL pay less in taxes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> True, but that's being a tad dishonest in avoiding the stated point.
>>>>>
>>>>> That point was "fair share".  Its metric was "percentage of income",
>>>>> which is very consistent with how this topic is discussed.
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> A steak is $15.00 at the grocery store. It's "fair" if a poor person
>>> buys it or a rich person buys it. It costs either one of them $15
>>>
>>> That's fair
>>
>>
>> Do you seriously think both are on the same budget???
>
>
> Klaus has a point, but it isn't the one that you're thinking of.

Nor is it the one you're about to shamelessly reconstruct to fit your
own petty argumentative needs:

> The reason is that Klaus's analogy relies on an underlying assumption in
> his steak analogy, namely that a government service has an equal benefit
> to a poor person and a rich person.

And with the definitive you just set ("a government service") it
certainly may.

>  For example, a public road:

For example, your cherry picking "a government service" for him.

> the poor person may not have a car with which to use that service benefit,

Use it _directly_ perhaps not...but indirectly every good or service
they consume relies upon our transportation network.

Doesn't matter if one is buying hamburger or Wagyu steak - it all
travels by road.

> whereas the rich person not only uses the roads, but his customers do
> too.  As such, the rich person benefits _more_ from that service.

And the man with large lungs benefits more from clean air than the man
with small lungs, etc., etc. etc...

You can't even argue respectably Huntzy, you're just an order-taking
lifer who never learned how to think for himself.

You putz.

--
⛨ 🥐🥖🗼🤪

On 10/1/24 3:13 PM, Mittens Romney wrote:
> -hh wrote:
>> On 9/30/24 11:51 PM, T wrote:
>>> On 9/30/24 15:23, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2024 2:38 PM,Fuckwit  -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/30/24 1:08 PM, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>>>>> [Default]  Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:vddo52$1u779$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/29/24 22:58, me too wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And when the populace is asked what percentage that "fair
>>>>>>>>> share" is, it is usually under what they are already
>>>>>>>>> paying.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it's not - not when a teacher, or nurse pays a greater
>>>>>>>> percentage of
>>>>>>>> their income than a billionaire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They STILL pay less in taxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, but that's being a tad dishonest in avoiding the stated point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That point was "fair share".  Its metric was "percentage of income",
>>>>>> which is very consistent with how this topic is discussed.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>> A steak is $15.00 at the grocery store. It's "fair" if a poor person
>>>> buys it or a rich person buys it. It costs either one of them $15
>>>>
>>>> That's fair
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you seriously think both are on the same budget???
>>
>>
>> Klaus has a point, but it isn't the one that you're thinking of.
>
> Nor is it the one you're about to shamelessly reconstruct to fit your
> own petty argumentative needs:
>
>> The reason is that Klaus's analogy relies on an underlying assumption
>> in his steak analogy, namely that a government service has an equal
>> benefit to a poor person and a rich person.
>
> And with the definitive you just set ("a government service") it
> certainly may.
>
>>   For example, a public road:
>
> For example, your cherry picking "a government service" for him.

I don't see the government selling groceries.

But what they do commonly do is to provide services:
roads/infrastructure, police/fire/education, national security, etc.
If you don't like my example, pick something else that's reasonably
representative of 'government' as a whole, or identify a portfolio and
go through and assess them all.

>> the poor person may not have a car with which to use that service
>> benefit,
>
> Use it _directly_ perhaps not...but indirectly every good or service
> they consume relies upon our transportation network.

And the same is true for the rich too...and since they often consume
more of such goods, that means that their use of roads is proportionally
higher too.

> Doesn't matter if one is buying hamburger or Wagyu steak - it  all
> travels by road.

Yup, and those are *public* roads, so its infrastructure that the
government paid for from their tax revenues as an investment in the
economy and society.

>> whereas the rich person not only uses the roads, but his customers do
>> too.  As such, the rich person benefits _more_ from that service.
>
> And the man with large lungs benefits more from clean air than the man
> with small lungs, etc., etc. etc...

And the rich man with the big mansion, he pays taxes for police & fire
services....but since he's got a bigger house for them to protect, why
shouldn't he pay more? Its just like the private landscapers he hires:
they charge more when there's more acres to mow/trim/etc.

-hh

On 9/30/24 7:24 PM, Ed P wrote:
> On 9/30/2024 6:11 PM, Allen wrote:
>
>>
>> That's political word salad and laughably correct since many
>> billionaires don't get a paycheck like the working class.  They, like
>> all business owners, take draws which are not taxed because it's
>> considered removal of profits and not personal income.  Ever think that
>> through?
>
> It is still income
>
>>
>> Obviously you've never owned a business.  Business owners pay higher
>> interest rates, higher phone rates, higher internet rates, higher
>> electrical, higher everything.  Why?  Because they are a business.  A
>> smart business owner takes advantage of the deductions granted them by
>> state governments and Congress.  That is why they pay less taxes in some
>> cases.
>
> Obviously you have no idea what I've done.  Both my wife and I had
> businesses.  Not everything is a higher rate.

Was thinking the same thing.

>> Something else you may not have considered.  Businesses collect taxes
>> and pay them back to the government in quarterly payments.  Do they
>> get paid for that?  No.  The more they collect due to success the more
>> they must pay.
>
> Cost of doing business.  Hey, its deductible too!

Yes, the latitude for business deductions is quite broad. Wait until
they hear about tickets to sporting events written off as client
entertainment expenses, etc.

Even small business can go there easily, such as by buying a laptop as a
deductible business expense, and once its been depreciated (sometimes in
only 1 year), they can give it to their kid to use for school/etc and
then go buy another laptop as a business expense & deduct that too.

-hh

On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>
>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>
>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>> first.
>>>
>>
>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will all
>> our
>> money trickle down from?
>
> Giverment, duh.
>
> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>
>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>
> Red herring.

Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.

Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.

Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.

We know who's really not paying their fair share.

Yak wrote:
> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>
>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>
>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>> first.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will
>>> all our
>>> money trickle down from?
>>
>> Giverment, duh.
>>
>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>
>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>
>> Red herring.
>
> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>
> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>
> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>
> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>
>

Well this is all true and all ignored by the left!

--
⛨ 🥐🥖🗼🤪

On 10/1/2024 2:02 PM, Yak wrote:
> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>
>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>
>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>> first.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will
>>> all our
>>> money trickle down from?
>>
>> Giverment, duh.
>>
>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>
>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>
>> Red herring.
>
> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>
> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>
> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>
> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>
>

Interesting numbers but they don't tell the whole story.

Should a widow living on $800 a month SS pay more so the top 1% can pay
less?

Should the top 1% give more of their corporate profits to workers in
higher wages so they can pay more taxes?

Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, earns around $7.99 million per hour.
This is based on his net worth increasing by $70 billion in 2023, from
$107 billion to $177 billion. Bezos's wealth growth is largely due to
the value of Amazon stock, which he owns around 9% of.

How Much Does Elon Musk Make an Hour. The quick answer—Elon Musk makes
around $1.6 million per hour. This is based on his net worth that rose
by $143.9 billion in the past decade until early 2023. That's 220,690
times the federal minimum wage

Yak wrote this post; take it under advisement:

> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>
>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>
>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>> first.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will all
>>> our
>>> money trickle down from?
>>
>> Giverment, duh.
>>
>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>
>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>
>> Red herring.
>
> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>
> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>
> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.

Show us a link to a legimate source.

> We know who's really not paying their fair share.

:-D

Pull my finger dude.

--
Where will it all end? Probably somewhere near where it all began.

On 10/1/24 03:27, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
> [Default] T <T@invalid.invalid> typed:
>
>> On 9/30/24 15:23, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>> On 9/30/2024 2:38 PM,Fuckwit -hh wrote:
>>>>> On 9/30/24 1:08 PM, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>>>> [Default]  Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:vddo52$1u779$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/29/24 22:58, me too wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And when the populace is asked what percentage that "fair
>>>>>>>> share" is, it is usually under what they are already
>>>>>>>> paying.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it's not - not when a teacher, or nurse pays a greater percentage of
>>>>>>> their income than a billionaire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They STILL pay less in taxes
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> True, but that's being a tad dishonest in avoiding the stated point.
>>>>>
>>>>> That point was "fair share".  Its metric was "percentage of income",
>>>>> which is very consistent with how this topic is discussed.
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> A steak is $15.00 at the grocery store. It's "fair" if a poor person
>>> buys it or a rich person buys it. It costs either one of them $15
>>>
>>> That's fair
>>>
>>
>>
>> Do you seriously think both are on the same budget???
>
> What's budget got to do with it, dumb ass?
>
> It's FAIR that BOTH pay the same price for the steak

You misread me. I was criticizing the "equality of outcome" crowd.

Yak <yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:vdhdg2$2r3or$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>
>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>
>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after
us
>>> first.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will
all
>>> our
>>> money trickle down from?
>>
>> Giverment, duh.
>>
>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>
>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>
>> Red herring.
>
> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>
> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>
> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>
> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>
>

Let's look at a 50% flat tax:
- the poor might not even have enough to eat, much less a roof over
their head
- the middle class would have at best an austere lifestyle, eat and
house, nothing else
- the well-off would be inconvenienced but have a normal life
- the billionaires would not even notice except on spreadsheet numbers.

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:vdhuh5$2tick$1@dont-email.me:

> On 10/1/24 03:27, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>> [Default] T <T@invalid.invalid> typed:
>>
>>> On 9/30/24 15:23, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>> On 9/30/2024 2:38 PM,Fuckwit -hh wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/30/24 1:08 PM, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>>>>> [Default]  Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:vddo52$1u779$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 9/29/24 22:58, me too wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And when the populace is asked what percentage that "fair
>>>>>>>>> share" is, it is usually under what they are already
>>>>>>>>> paying.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it's not - not when a teacher, or nurse pays a greater
>>>>>>>> percentage of their income than a billionaire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They STILL pay less in taxes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, but that's being a tad dishonest in avoiding the stated
>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That point was "fair share".  Its metric was "percentage of
>>>>>> income", which is very consistent with how this topic is
>>>>>> discussed.
>>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>>
>>>> A steak is $15.00 at the grocery store. It's "fair" if a poor
>>>> person buys it or a rich person buys it. It costs either one of
>>>> them $15
>>>>
>>>> That's fair
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you seriously think both are on the same budget???
>>
>> What's budget got to do with it, dumb ass?
>>
>> It's FAIR that BOTH pay the same price for the steak
>
>
> You misread me. I was criticizing the "equality of outcome" crowd.
>

If you think a Flat Tax is fair, then we should price EVERYTHING on
percentage of income too - that would only be fair.

[Default] Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:

>T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in news:vdhuh5$2tick$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/1/24 03:27, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>> [Default] T <T@invalid.invalid> typed:
>>>
>>>> On 9/30/24 15:23, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>>> On 9/30/2024 2:38 PM,Fuckwit -hh wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/30/24 1:08 PM, Klaus Schadenfreude wrote:
>>>>>>>> [Default]  Baxter <bax02_spamblock@baxcode.com> typed:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:vddo52$1u779$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/29/24 22:58, me too wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And when the populace is asked what percentage that "fair
>>>>>>>>>> share" is, it is usually under what they are already
>>>>>>>>>> paying.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, it's not - not when a teacher, or nurse pays a greater
>>>>>>>>> percentage of their income than a billionaire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They STILL pay less in taxes
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> True, but that's being a tad dishonest in avoiding the stated
>>>>>>> point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That point was "fair share".  Its metric was "percentage of
>>>>>>> income", which is very consistent with how this topic is
>>>>>>> discussed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> A steak is $15.00 at the grocery store. It's "fair" if a poor
>>>>> person buys it or a rich person buys it. It costs either one of
>>>>> them $15
>>>>>
>>>>> That's fair
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you seriously think both are on the same budget???
>>>
>>> What's budget got to do with it, dumb ass?
>>>
>>> It's FAIR that BOTH pay the same price for the steak
>>
>>
>> You misread me. I was criticizing the "equality of outcome" crowd.
>>
>
>If you think a Flat Tax is fair, then we should price EVERYTHING on
>percentage of income too - that would only be fair.

No, you don't know what "fair" means.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRy2C_DSVzdPHCWdlpiS3UeildnFlq-IDSbqg&s
Demetrius Wynne

Prosecutors say Demetrius Wynne broke into Susan Spiller's home and stabbed her to death when he was 14-years-old.

MINNEAPOLIS — A judge sentenced a Minneapolis man to 27 years in prison for the murder of his neighbor.

On Thursday afternoon, Demetrius Wynne, 21, was given a sentence of 324 months with 1,044 days of credit for time served.

In July 2015, police officers found the body of Susan Spiller inside her Minneapolis home while doing a welfare check. The 68-year-old artist and community activist died of "complex homicidal violence," according to the Hennepin County Medical Examiner, but the person responsible for Spiller's death remained a mystery.

For four years, the case went unsolved until Wynne's fingerprints made their way into the police database.

Prosecutors say Wynne broke into Spiller's home and stabbed her to death. Wynne was 14-years-old at the time and he was Spiller's neighbor.

Last month, a jury found Wynne guilty of second-degree murder in the death of Spiller.

Spiller is remembered by friends and the community as a beloved artist who was known for her colorful work with fused glass.

"She was the kindest, most generous soul," Spiller's friend Daune Atter told KARE 11 after Wynne was charged in 2019.

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/604ba665d1f85a206a639c14/930dab60-3b04-4b91-bb7e-dd6f857c8c0d/Ruth+Ann+Miller.png?format=1500w
Photo via Olmsted County Jail

Formal criminal charges have been filed against Ruth Ann Miller, 25, following the death of a man in Rochester's Mayo Park West on June 15, 2024.
Miller is charged with second-degree murder, theft, and interference with a dead body, according to a criminal complaint filed in Olmsted County District Court.

Rochester police say they responded to Mayo Park West at approximately 6:57 a.m. on June 15 after a bystander found a man unresponsive in the grass. Officers discovered the man with foam and blood around his mouth and nose. He was pronounced dead at the scene. Authorities noted that his pockets were emptied, and no personal belongings were found nearby.

Security footage revealed that the victim had not been in the area the previous night, and witnesses reported seeing him alive at about 9:45 p.m. near Mayo Civic Center. Another bystander reported seeing him motionless in the park at 5:40 a.m.

Miller came forward to police on June 26, stating that she had strangled the victim with a cloth belt at his request, claiming he had asked her to kill him. According to Miller, she placed her foot on the victim’s face and pulled the belt tight until he stopped breathing. After confirming his death, Miller said she took the victim’s wallet, phone, and vape, disposing of the belt and the items at various locations around the city.

During the investigation, Miller led officers to the Rochester Public Library, where police recovered several of the victim’s belongings. The autopsy confirmed that the victim had died by asphyxiation, with no other medical factors contributing to his death.

Miller faces a maximum sentence of 40 years for second-degree murder. She remains in custody on $1 million bail. Her next court appearance is scheduled for later this month.

https://www.mncrime.com/latest/rochester-woman-charged-in-strangulation-death-theft

https://patch.com/img/cdn/users/331449/2011/09/raw/46930694200a4d8c35eceaf5be33c1ce.jpg?width=1200
Willie B. Porter Jr. faces a felony charge of domestic assault by strangulation.

A Minneapolis man has been charged with domestic assault by strangulation after authorities say he pinned an Apple Valley woman against a doorway last week by the throat.

Willie B. Porter Jr., 20, faces a felony charge of domestic assault by strangulation, which carries a maximum penalty of three years in prison and a $5,000 fine.

Porter remained in the Dakota County Jail on Tuesday on a $25,000 bond. An omnibus hearing in his case is scheduled for Oct. 17 in Dakota County District Court in Hastings.

According to the criminal complaint, Apple Valley police were called to a report of a domestic assault Sept. 22 and met with the woman, who said she had an “altercation” with Porter, whom she described as her on-again, off-again boyfriend.

The woman said she and Porter were packing her belongings because she was in the process of moving out, and while they were working, Porter shattered the glass on a living-room table.

She told police that she became upset and began arguing with Porter, who began breaking other things. When she tried to leave the bedroom, Porter allegedly poked her in the head with his fingers, she said.

She went to the garage, where she said Porter tried to keep her from leaving by standing in her way, according to the complaint. He allegedly tried to grab her purse and coat, but after a short struggle she was able to get away, she said.

The woman went to a neighbor’s home, but as she was ringing the doorbell, Porter ran up behind her, pinned her in the corner of the doorway and choked her, according to the complaint. The neighbor came outside, saw Porter choking the victim and tried to help pull him off her, the complaint says.

https://patch.com/minnesota/applevalley-rosemount/man-charged-with-strangling-apple-valley-woman-during-argument

On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 14:02:42 -0400, Yak <yak@inbox.com> wrote:

>On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>
>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>
>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>> first.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will all
>>> our
>>> money trickle down from?
>>
>> Giverment, duh.
>>
>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>
>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>
>> Red herring.
>
>Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>
>Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>
>Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>
>We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>

And we should take your word for it ... why?

Now, answer this: What is the final effective tax rate of the top 1%?

--

Two more reasons to not vote for Trump in 35 days.

23) Trump sparked international outrage by moving the
American Embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv while
closing the U.S.' Palestine office.

24) Trump tasked his son-in-law, Jared Kushner,
with drafting a potential Middle East peace plan
with zero Palestinian input.

Governor Swill wrote:
> Now, answer this: What is the final effective tax rate of the top 1%?

The biggest problem we have is the Democrats giving away free stuff in
exchange for a vote. Should be illegal, not that the Democrats follow
the law.

On 10/1/2024 7:12 PM, Baxter wrote:
> Yak <yak@inbox.com> wrote in news:vdhdg2$2r3or$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>
>>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after
> us
>>>> first.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will
> all
>>>> our
>>>> money trickle down from?
>>>
>>> Giverment, duh.
>>>
>>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>>
>>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>>
>>> Red herring.
>>
>> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>>
>> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>>
>>
>
> Let's look at a 50% flat tax:

Let's not.

> - the poor might not even have enough to eat, much less a roof over
> their head
> - the middle class would have at best an austere lifestyle, eat and
> house, nothing else
> - the well-off would be inconvenienced but have a normal life
> - the billionaires would not even notice except on spreadsheet numbers.
>

On 10/1/2024 5:32 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Yak wrote this post; take it under advisement:
>
>> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>
>>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>>> first.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will all
>>>> our
>>>> money trickle down from?
>>>
>>> Giverment, duh.
>>>
>>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>>
>>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>>
>>> Red herring.
>>
>> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>
> Show us a link to a legimate source.

https://tinyurl.com/mr277pad

>> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>
> :-D
>
> Pull my finger dude.

Pull your own finger.

On 10/1/2024 4:18 PM, Ed P wrote:
> On 10/1/2024 2:02 PM, Yak wrote:
>> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>
>>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>>> first.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will
>>>> all our
>>>> money trickle down from?
>>>
>>> Giverment, duh.
>>>
>>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>>
>>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>>
>>> Red herring.
>>
>> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>>
>> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>>
>>
>
>
> Interesting numbers but they don't tell the whole story.

They tell the story that needs to be told.

> Should a widow living on $800 a month SS pay more so the top 1% can pay
> less?

False premise.

> Should the top 1% give more of their corporate profits to workers in
> higher wages so they can pay more taxes?

Maybe, maybe not. Wages should be a voluntary agreement between
employers and employees.

> Jeff Bezos, the founder of Amazon, earns around $7.99 million per hour.
> This is based on his net worth increasing by $70 billion in 2023, from
> $107 billion to $177 billion. Bezos's wealth growth is largely due to
> the value of Amazon stock, which he owns around 9% of.

Irrelevant. They're called *income taxes* not wealth taxes. Start a new
thread if you care to discuss that.

> How Much Does Elon Musk Make an Hour. The quick answer—Elon Musk makes
> around $1.6 million per hour. This is based on his net worth that rose
> by $143.9 billion in the past decade until early 2023. That's 220,690
> times the federal minimum wage

See above.

>

On 10/2/2024 3:18 AM, Governor Swill wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2024 14:02:42 -0400, Yak <yak@inbox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/1/2024 1:37 PM, citizen winston smith wrote:
>>> On 10/1/2024 11:32 AM, Jimmy wrote:
>>>>> "Make them pay their fair share!"
>>>>>
>>>>> She's either a stone cold liar or she's stupid and believes you are.
>>>>>
>>>>> All business owners pay taxes.  We have to or the IRS comes after us
>>>> first.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's time to stand up for the billionaires because where else will all
>>>> our
>>>> money trickle down from?
>>>
>>> Giverment, duh.
>>>
>>> That's what you totalitarian fascists want, isn't it it?
>>>
>>>> Billionaires need protection, they're too weak to protect themselves.
>>>
>>> Red herring.
>>
>> Bottom 50% earned 10.4% of income, paid 2.3% of fed income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% earned 26.3% of income, paid 45.8% of fed. income taxes.
>>
>> Top 1% of income tax payers paid more than the bottom 90% combined.
>>
>> We know who's really not paying their fair share.
>>
>
> And we should take your word for it ... why?

Wait, you don't believe the numbers from your lords and masters at the IRS?

> Now, answer this: What is the final effective tax rate of the top 1%?

26%. (3.3% for the bottom 50%).

On 10/2/24 6:29 AM, Kimberly Cheatle Roofing wrote:
> Governor Swill wrote:
>> Now, answer this:  What is the final effective tax rate of the top 1%?
>
> The biggest problem we have is the Democrats giving away free stuff in
> exchange for a vote. Should be illegal, not that the Democrats follow
> the law.

Whereas the GOP are selling tax breaks to their richest constituents,
who then buy advertising to keep the GOP in office.

Where's the difference?

-hh

On 10/2/2024 6:29 AM, Kimberly Cheatle Roofing wrote:
> Governor Swill wrote:
>> Now, answer this:  What is the final effective tax rate of the top 1%?
>
> The biggest problem we have is the Democrats giving away free stuff in
> exchange for a vote. Should be illegal, not that the Democrats follow
> the law.

Yes, like Trump made an offer to the oil execs for votes and tax relief
for the wealthy for votes. It should be illegal!

Yak wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 10/1/2024 5:32 PM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>> Pull my finger dude.
>
> Pull your own finger.

Nah, you're doing a fine job of pulling off Trump.

--
Why are these athletic shoe salesmen following me??

Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Nah, you're doing a fine job

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party/Alan Bond/kami and a few dozen
other socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path:
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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
Message-ID: <emo79jh20rlasuask9094vtlepuu5ui0av@4ax.com>
References: <1oKdnTc9CYmJlg77nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com>
<XnsB1AED5FEA65AA629555@185.151.15.160>
<ONIkO.102541$dFU1.83026@fx11.ams4> <XnsB1AF52A9CDF3B629555@185.151.15.190>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
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otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400

Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <j_carlson@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <v5f66o$1mps9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v54h6j$39cuk$1@dont-email.me> <v54hrs$38mfs$18@dont-email.me>
<moKcnZP3dbqUm-r7nZ2dnZfqnPcAAAAA@giganews.com>
<v58c4f$6squ$8@dont-email.me>
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Xref: news.eternal-september.org alt.politics.immigration:383549
alt.politics.nationalism.white:10913 talk.politics.misc:1295918
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:3024985

> No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
> is an important step to getting there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.

https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Governor Swill wrote:
> Now, answer this:

Governor Swill /Rudy Canoza/Lou Bricano/J Carlson/Michael A
Terrell/Chris Ahlstrom/Intelligent Party/Alan Bond and a few dozen other
socks wrote:

Multiple death threats against Trump:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Path:
eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!border-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!border-2.nntp.ord.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-out.netnews.com!netnews.com!s1-4.netnews.com!peer01.iad!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx10.iad.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
Message-ID: <emo79jh20rlasuask9094vtlepuu5ui0av@4ax.com>
References: <1oKdnTc9CYmJlg77nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com>
<XnsB1AED5FEA65AA629555@185.151.15.160>
<ONIkO.102541$dFU1.83026@fx11.ams4> <XnsB1AF52A9CDF3B629555@185.151.15.190>
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Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:38:43 -0400

Oh poor me I got shot at ...

Swill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com>
Newsgroups:
talk.politics.misc,alt.politics,alt.politics.usa,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,alt.elections
Subject: Re: Triumphant Trump Photo After Assassination Attempt
Message-ID: <4ln79j914cpespbrssonesbciii33ess3m@4ax.com>
References: <1oKdnTc9CYmJlg77nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@earthlink.com>
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otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly.
Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 10:37:51 -0400

Cheer up, maybe someone else will try.

Swill

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J Carlson <j_carlson@gmx.com>
Newsgroups:
alt.politics.immigration,alt.politics.nationalism.white,talk.politics.misc,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: AP Lies by Ommission About Identity of Invaders Charged with
Rape, Murder of 12-Year-Old
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 12:35:52 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <v5f66o$1mps9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <v54h6j$39cuk$1@dont-email.me> <v54hrs$38mfs$18@dont-email.me>
<moKcnZP3dbqUm-r7nZ2dnZfqnPcAAAAA@giganews.com>
<v58c4f$6squ$8@dont-email.me>
<v5df1n$1caue$1@dont-email.me> <v5edju$1hv3p$3@dont-email.me>
<tgrl7j14lbg6f9csput4jca09qqujgd9d5@4ax.com>
<v5erpf$1jkrf$20@dont-email.me>
<O9acnRiefIZol-b7nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 21:35:53 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me;
posting-host="f3de9d0c1e618b255237332494133eec";
logging-data="1795977";
mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";
posting-account="U2FsdGVkX195k8uMNmZfnyDG9tQmsu21WqljX3bfQxM="
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:PNoPW9d+9gKJj0fX+YCk+YFslQg=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <O9acnRiefIZol-b7nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com>
Xref: news.eternal-september.org alt.politics.immigration:383549
alt.politics.nationalism.white:10913 talk.politics.misc:1295918
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh:3024985

> No. I am a patriotic American who wants the country and its people to
thrive. Getting rid of Trump permanently
> is an important step to getting there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That constitutes a DEATH THREAT against a former President, Rudey:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/871
18 U.S. Code § 871 - Threats against President and successors to the
Presidency
U.S. Code
Notes
prev | next
(a)Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits for conveyance in the mail
or for a delivery from any post office or by any letter carrier any
letter, paper, writing, print, missive, or document containing any
threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon
the President of the United States, the President-elect, the Vice
President or other officer next in the order of succession to the office
of President of the United States, or the Vice President-elect, or
knowingly and willfully otherwise makes any such threat against the
President, President-elect, Vice President or other officer next in the
order of succession to the office of President, or Vice President-elect,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years,
or both.
(b)The terms “President-elect” and “Vice President-elect” as used in
this section shall mean such persons as are the apparent successful
candidates for the offices of President and Vice President,
respectively, as ascertained from the results of the general elections
held to determine the electors of President and Vice President in
accordance with title 3, United States Code, sections 1 and 2. The
phrase “other officer next in the order of succession to the office of
President” as used in this section shall mean the person next in the
order of succession to act as President in accordance with title 3,
United States Code, sections 19 and 20.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 740; June 1, 1955, ch. 115, § 1, 69
Stat. 80; Pub. L. 87–829, § 1, Oct. 15, 1962, 76 Stat. 956; Pub. L.
97–297, § 2, Oct. 12, 1982, 96 Stat. 1318; Pub. L. 103–322, title
XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

9-65.200 - Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency; Threats Against Former Presidents; and Certain Other Secret
Service Protectees
The Counterterrorism Section of the National Security Division has
supervisory authority over 18 U.S.C. §§ 871 and 879 cases. As great
caution must be taken in matters relating to the security of the persons
protected by 18 U.S.C. § 871, United States Attorneys are encouraged to
consult with the Counterterrorism Section (CTS) of the National Security
Division when they have doubts on the prosecutive merit of a case. For
the same reason, dismissal of complaints under 18 U.S.C. § 871, when the
defendant is in custody under the Mental Incompetency Statutes (18
U.S.C. §§ 4244, 4246), requires approval from CTS. In other cases,
United States Attorneys must consult prior to dismissing a count
involving, or entering into any sentence commitment or other case
settlement involving a § 871 charge.

https://www.secretservice.gov/newsroom/releases/2024/01/phoenix-man-arrested-making-online-death-threats-against-president-and

PHOENIX –David Michael Hanson, 41, of Phoenix, was arrested on Wednesday
for making online threats against the President and Vice-President.
Hanson was charged by Federal criminal complaint on Tuesday with five
counts of Threats Against the President and Successors to the Presidency
and five counts of Interstate Communication of Threats.

The complaint alleges that in November and December of 2023, while
living in Arizona, Hanson used a social media platform to post threats
to murder the President and Vice President of the United States. On
November 19, 2023, Hanson posted online a series of threatening
statements including one that stated, “#joeAndKamala I’m asking you to
resign on Monday your alternative is death brutally murdered.” After the
U.S. Secret Service spoke to Hanson and warned him that it was a Federal
crime to post such threats, on December 23, 2023, Hanson posted another
series of similar threats aimed at the President and Vice-President.

Each count of Threats Against the President and Successors to the
Presidency carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison, a fine of
up to $250,000, and up to three years of supervised release. Each count
of Interstate Communication of Threats carries a maximum sentence of
five years in prison, a fine of up to $250,000, and up to three years of
supervised release.

A complaint is simply a method by which a person is charged with
criminal activity and raises no inference of guilt. An individual is
presumed innocent until evidence is presented to a jury that establishes
guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.