RonB wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On 2024-05-07, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>> I have to admit that there are certain things that are a lot easier to
>> do in the command line. I've very much appreciated the "libreoffice
>> --headless convert-to ODT *.docx" line.

Our project actually used that to convert (automatically) all documents
in various directories for display (in an air-traffic control tower).
This was on Windows.

> Sometimes I need to convert .pngs into .mp3s — so I just type...
>
> convert filename.png filename.mp3.

ImageMagick is cool. I use "convert" to create a PDF document to send
filled-in forms. Scan each page and save as a JPEG, numbered to ensure page
ordering, then:

$ convert *.jpeg my-insurance-forms.pdf

> Couldn't be easier. You can do wildcards as well.
>
> Or pdfunite to join PDF documents... tons of stuff like this available form
> the Linux CLI.

I do use a GUI, skanlite, to scan forms from our Canon LIDE flatbed scanner.
It's a bit simpler than xsane.

Both apps look pretty good, by they way.

But...

--
You will soon forget this.

On 2024-05-08 9:43 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On 2024-05-07 10:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this masterful
>>>>>>>> Windows application.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999. ONE
>>>>>>>> competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the entire universe
>>>>>>>> of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to do what this guy does.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of info, but
>>>>>>>> it's basically unreadable. The output is made for... I don't know who
>>>>>>>> the intended audience is, but it's not regular users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows exists, there's
>>>>>>>> no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>>> < snip >
>>>>
>>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++, clang/clang++,
>>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in a terminal
>>>> window.
>>>>
>>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side by side.
>>>> Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking. Libreoffice for short
>>>> how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers mostly. And of course the sddm
>>>> display manager and the fluxbox window manager.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing like
>>>> a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a computer.
>>>
>>> I'm using slrn to respond to this post. It's efficient and quick. What does
>>> DuFuS "think" I'm supposedly losing by using this CLI app instead of a GUI
>>> application?
>>
>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI tools
>> is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
>> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
>> same amount of time.
>
> Dated? Old ones, yeah. Gvim, yeah. GIMP? Naw, it seems pretty clean and
> "modern" to me.

I watched a video a few days ago where a guy demonstrated just how dated
GIMP is. It turns out that you can use the PhotoPea web app if you can't
afford Photoshop, and it's more or less a clone of the commercial
software. Most importantly, it is more modern and performs better than
GIMP does. I'm sure GIMP is still fine for most, but there are much
better free alternatives.

< snip >

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Wed, 8 May 2024 09:51:03 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> ImageMagick is cool. I use "convert" to create a PDF document to send
> filled-in forms. Scan each page and save as a JPEG, numbered to ensure page
> ordering, then:
>

If you're scanning text documents, JPEG is a poor format. You should
use PNG or, the best, JBIG2.

Also, ImageMagick is poor for creating PDF files. USE img2pdf or jbig2enc:

https://github.com/agl/jbig2enc

https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf

On 5/6/2024 5:40 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 6 May 2024 08:55:28 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> ... free for personal use.
>
> Ah, that old con.
>
> What counts as “personal” use? Am I allowed to advertise the work I’ve
> done with it to get a job? Am I allowed to do tutorials with it and post
> them on a commercial site like YouTube? Am I allowed to make money from
> those tutorials?

The website currently states:

"HWiNFO tools are available in various versions for different systems
and use cases.
All versions are free to use in personal and non-commercial environments.
Using HWiNFO64 in a commercial environment requires the HWiNFO64 Pro
license.
HWiNFO64 Pro also offers additional features."

https://www.hwinfo.com/licenses/

Promoting your skills and making and selling tutorials is a commercial
environment in my book.

Pay up. $193.50 for a lifetime Corporate license, 1 computer, unlimited
users

https://www.hwinfo.com/files/license.pdf

Or you can try AIDA Extreme, another Linux-crushing sysinfo tool, for
$219.90.

AIDA64 Engineer edition: For businesses. A corporate engineer or IT
technician can install it on unlimited company computers and offer
services to clients as a freelancer.

https://www.aida64.com/licensing

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 14:02 this Wednesday (GMT):
> On 2024-05-08 9:43 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-07 10:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this masterful
>>>>>>>>> Windows application.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999. ONE
>>>>>>>>> competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the entire universe
>>>>>>>>> of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to do what this guy does.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of info, but
>>>>>>>>> it's basically unreadable. The output is made for... I don't know who
>>>>>>>>> the intended audience is, but it's not regular users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows exists, there's
>>>>>>>>> no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>>>> < snip >
>>>>>
>>>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++, clang/clang++,
>>>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in a terminal
>>>>> window.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side by side.
>>>>> Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking. Libreoffice for short
>>>>> how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers mostly. And of course the sddm
>>>>> display manager and the fluxbox window manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing like
>>>>> a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a computer.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using slrn to respond to this post. It's efficient and quick. What does
>>>> DuFuS "think" I'm supposedly losing by using this CLI app instead of a GUI
>>>> application?
>>>
>>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI tools
>>> is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
>>> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
>>> same amount of time.
>>
>> Dated? Old ones, yeah. Gvim, yeah. GIMP? Naw, it seems pretty clean and
>> "modern" to me.
>
> I watched a video a few days ago where a guy demonstrated just how dated
> GIMP is. It turns out that you can use the PhotoPea web app if you can't
> afford Photoshop, and it's more or less a clone of the commercial
> software. Most importantly, it is more modern and performs better than
> GIMP does. I'm sure GIMP is still fine for most, but there are much
> better free alternatives.
>
>< snip >

Webapps don't really work as well though..
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI tools
> is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
> same amount of time.

We heard that a lot from a VP who thought the Motif based producted looked
'dated'. When asked what it should look like or what GUI changes would
make it easier to use, crickets. At one point he passed around screen
shots of a competitor's product and I had to look very closely to tell it
wasn't ours but it was 'better'.

A long time ago I did an inventory control system. I learned that the
people doing data entry hardly looked at the screen. I think I could have
put up a dialog saying 'Your pantyhose are on fire!' and the wouldn't
notice. What they did notice was anything that broke the pattern as they
tabbed between boxes and entered the data.

On 2024-05-08, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-07 10:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this masterful
>>>>>>> Windows application.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999. ONE
>>>>>>> competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the entire universe
>>>>>>> of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to do what this guy does.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of info, but
>>>>>>> it's basically unreadable. The output is made for... I don't know who
>>>>>>> the intended audience is, but it's not regular users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows exists, there's
>>>>>>> no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>
>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>> < snip >
>>>
>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++, clang/clang++,
>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in a terminal
>>> window.
>>>
>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side by side.
>>> Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking. Libreoffice for short
>>> how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers mostly. And of course the sddm
>>> display manager and the fluxbox window manager.
>>>
>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing like
>>> a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a computer.
>>
>> I'm using slrn to respond to this post. It's efficient and quick. What does
>> DuFuS "think" I'm supposedly losing by using this CLI app instead of a GUI
>> application?
>
> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI tools
> is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
> same amount of time.

"Looks dated," seems like a superficial way to judge an application. But to
each their own. I know slrn gets the job more quickly and efficiently than a
GUI app would.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-08, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-07 10:12 p.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-07, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-07 12:20 p.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this masterful
>>>>>>>> Windows application.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999. ONE
>>>>>>>> competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the entire universe
>>>>>>>> of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to do what this guy does.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of info, but
>>>>>>>> it's basically unreadable. The output is made for... I don't know who
>>>>>>>> the intended audience is, but it's not regular users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows exists, there's
>>>>>>>> no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>>> < snip >
>>>>
>>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++, clang/clang++,
>>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in a terminal
>>>> window.
>>>>
>>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side by side.
>>>> Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking. Libreoffice for short
>>>> how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers mostly. And of course the sddm
>>>> display manager and the fluxbox window manager.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing like
>>>> a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a computer.
>>>
>>> I have to admit that there are certain things that are a lot easier to
>>> do in the command line. I've very much appreciated the "libreoffice
>>> --headless convert-to ODT *.docx" line.
>>
>> Sometimes I need to convert .pngs into .mp3s — so I just type...
>>
>> convert filename.png filename.mp3.
>>
>> Couldn't be easier. You can do wildcards as well.
>>
>> Or pdfunite to join PDF documents... tons of stuff like this available form
>> the Linux CLI.
>
> As imperfect as the system itself can be, there is no denying that the
> tools available in the free software world are more than enough to get
> the job done. They will never satisfy DFS, but that's fine; I doubt the
> developers of open-source are interested in having him as a client anyway.

Choice is good. If DFS wants to use less efficient GUI applications, that's
his choice. More power to him.

I use GUI apps also, so it's not like it has to be one or the other.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Wed, 8 May 2024 10:33:30 -0400, DFS wrote:

> Promoting your skills and making and selling tutorials is a commercial
> environment in my book.

Maybe not in theirs.

What if the tutorials are being offered for free, on a commercial site
like YouTube?

On Wed, 08 May 2024 22:45:47 +0000, RonB wrote:

> On 2024-05-08, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-07 10:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this
>>>>>>>> masterful Windows application.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999.
>>>>>>>> ONE competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the
>>>>>>>> entire universe of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to do
>>>>>>>> what this guy does.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of
>>>>>>>> info, but it's basically unreadable. The output is made for... I
>>>>>>>> don't know who the intended audience is, but it's not regular
>>>>>>>> users.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows exists,
>>>>>>>> there's no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>>> < snip >
>>>>
>>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++,
>>>> clang/clang++,
>>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in a
>>>> terminal window.
>>>>
>>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side by
>>>> side. Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking. Libreoffice
>>>> for short how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers mostly. And of
>>>> course the sddm display manager and the fluxbox window manager.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing
>>>> like a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a
>>>> computer.
>>>
>>> I'm using slrn to respond to this post. It's efficient and quick. What
>>> does DuFuS "think" I'm supposedly losing by using this CLI app instead
>>> of a GUI application?
>>
>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>> tools is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
>> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
>> same amount of time.
>
> "Looks dated," seems like a superficial way to judge an application. But
> to each their own. I know slrn gets the job more quickly and efficiently
> than a GUI app would.

For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird for
Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is responsible for
the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good old Pan works fine with
Blocknews, but everything else seems to have trouble negotiating a
connection. I've decided to just use a web app for my e-mail (which gives
me a more direct access to how the server will handle my e-mail anyway),
and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle both services in one app.

On 09 May 2024 01:17:53 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird for
> Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is responsible
> for the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good old Pan works
> fine with Blocknews, but everything else seems to have trouble
> negotiating a connection. I've decided to just use a web app for my
> e-mail (which gives me a more direct access to how the server will
> handle my e-mail anyway), and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle both
> services in one app.

I use Thunderbird for email and it does a good job but it had problems
with Usenet so I switched to Pan. I use individual.net for news so
Thunderbird struggled with more than Blocknews.

On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI tools
> is that they look dated.

Are they taking Microsoft, of all people, as arbiters of good taste?

On 8 May 2024 15:13:19 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> We heard that a lot from a VP who thought the Motif based producted
> looked 'dated'.

Motif was the one that pioneered multiple desktops. It became common very
quickly on *nix GUIs (including e.g. KDE on Linux).

The proprietary vendors like Microsoft and Apple took somewhat longer to
get the idea.

On Thu, 09 May 2024 04:26:28 +0000, rbowman wrote:

> On 09 May 2024 01:17:53 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird for
>> Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is responsible
>> for the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good old Pan works
>> fine with Blocknews, but everything else seems to have trouble
>> negotiating a connection. I've decided to just use a web app for my
>> e-mail (which gives me a more direct access to how the server will
>> handle my e-mail anyway), and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle both
>> services in one app.
>
> I use Thunderbird for email and it does a good job but it had problems
> with Usenet so I switched to Pan. I use individual.net for news so
> Thunderbird struggled with more than Blocknews.

As sad as this will sound, I'm glad to know that someone else has faced
Usenet issues with Thunderbird. It's starting to confirm where the problem
lies. Blocknews is working as it should with Pan, even from work.

On Thu, 09 May 2024 06:47:55 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>> tools is that they look dated.
>
> Are they taking Microsoft, of all people, as arbiters of good taste?

There are definitely more people out there who are fans of the Microsoft
aesthetics than there are people who appreciate the dated interfaces of
open-source software. All of them will admit that the "ugly" software
still does the job, but it appears that the way a program looks is as
important as whether it completes the task.

On 2024-05-09, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 May 2024 22:45:47 +0000, RonB wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-08, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-07 10:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this
>>>>>>>>> masterful Windows application.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999.
>>>>>>>>> ONE competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the
>>>>>>>>> entire universe of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to do
>>>>>>>>> what this guy does.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of
>>>>>>>>> info, but it's basically unreadable. The output is made for... I
>>>>>>>>> don't know who the intended audience is, but it's not regular
>>>>>>>>> users.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows exists,
>>>>>>>>> there's no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>>>> < snip >
>>>>>
>>>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++,
>>>>> clang/clang++,
>>>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in a
>>>>> terminal window.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side by
>>>>> side. Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking. Libreoffice
>>>>> for short how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers mostly. And of
>>>>> course the sddm display manager and the fluxbox window manager.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing
>>>>> like a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a
>>>>> computer.
>>>>
>>>> I'm using slrn to respond to this post. It's efficient and quick. What
>>>> does DuFuS "think" I'm supposedly losing by using this CLI app instead
>>>> of a GUI application?
>>>
>>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>>> tools is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
>>> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
>>> same amount of time.
>>
>> "Looks dated," seems like a superficial way to judge an application. But
>> to each their own. I know slrn gets the job more quickly and efficiently
>> than a GUI app would.
>
> For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird for
> Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is responsible for
> the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good old Pan works fine with
> Blocknews, but everything else seems to have trouble negotiating a
> connection. I've decided to just use a web app for my e-mail (which gives
> me a more direct access to how the server will handle my e-mail anyway),
> and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle both services in one app.

I think I quit using Thunderbird for newsgroups shortly after I started
using Linux. I didn't particularly like the interface, but (more importantly)
I once posted an email to my brother (accidentally) on a newsgroup. That's
when I went to Pan. slrn came a few years later.

I used to use websites for my email, but decided I didn't like that.
Thunderbird (or another email client) is more convenient for me.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On Thu, 09 May 2024 12:07:27 +0000, RonB wrote:

> On 2024-05-09, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 May 2024 22:45:47 +0000, RonB wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-08, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-05-07 10:07 p.m., RonB wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-05-07, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote:
>>>>>> Andrzej Matuch wrote this copyrighted missive and expects
>>>>>> royalties:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2024-05-07 8:08 a.m., Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>>>>>>> vallor wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 5 May 2024 22:54:19 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> <6638465a$0$8092$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://imgur.com/a/R0ARmN0
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ALL the Linux "equivalents" are pure junk compared to this
>>>>>>>>>> masterful Windows application.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's proprietary but free of cost for personal use.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Along with other apps, the creator has worked on it since 1999.
>>>>>>>>>> ONE competent, dedicated Windows developer puts to shame the
>>>>>>>>>> entire universe of FOSS crapware developers that have tried to
>>>>>>>>>> do what this guy does.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Linux has a command (with the same name) that outputs TONS of
>>>>>>>>>> info, but it's basically unreadable. The output is made for...
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know who the intended audience is, but it's not regular
>>>>>>>>>> users.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This app is yet more PROOF that in a world where Windows
>>>>>>>>>> exists, there's no reason to run Linux on your desktop.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It doesn't prove squat, GUI-boi.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You're mocking him for enjoying a GUI? What decade are you in?
>>>>>>> < snip >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 2020's, where I can use vim, gnu autotools, meson, gcc/g++,
>>>>>> clang/clang++,
>>>>>> slrn, mutt, mpd + ncmpcpp, alsamixer, git, latex, ssh, and more in
>>>>>> a terminal window.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do use gvim when I want edit two or more source-code files side
>>>>>> by side. Use zathura to read PDFs. GIMP for photo-tweaking.
>>>>>> Libreoffice for short how-tos. Conky for system info. GUI browsers
>>>>>> mostly. And of course the sddm display manager and the fluxbox
>>>>>> window manager.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not mocking him for enjoying a GUI, I'm mocking him for crowing
>>>>>> like a fool about it, as if there's only one true way to us a
>>>>>> computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm using slrn to respond to this post. It's efficient and quick.
>>>>> What does DuFuS "think" I'm supposedly losing by using this CLI app
>>>>> instead of a GUI application?
>>>>
>>>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>>>> tools is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a
>>>> problem,
>>>> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
>>>> same amount of time.
>>>
>>> "Looks dated," seems like a superficial way to judge an application.
>>> But to each their own. I know slrn gets the job more quickly and
>>> efficiently than a GUI app would.
>>
>> For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird for
>> Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is responsible
>> for the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good old Pan works
>> fine with Blocknews, but everything else seems to have trouble
>> negotiating a connection. I've decided to just use a web app for my
>> e-mail (which gives me a more direct access to how the server will
>> handle my e-mail anyway), and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle both
>> services in one app.
>
> I think I quit using Thunderbird for newsgroups shortly after I started
> using Linux. I didn't particularly like the interface, but (more
> importantly)
> I once posted an email to my brother (accidentally) on a newsgroup.
> That's when I went to Pan. slrn came a few years later.
>
> I used to use websites for my email, but decided I didn't like that.
> Thunderbird (or another email client) is more convenient for me.

The advantage of using a web app for my e-mail provider (Posteo), is that
I can create filters directly on the account rather than within a program.
This way, I don't have to start from scratch every time I reinstall my
operating system or whatever. Additionally, it allows me to buy credit for
the service, enable/disable encryption of my inbox/calendar/contacts, set
up MIME encryption and anything else directly. Web apps are also a lot
less taxing on the laptop's battery than an application like Thunderbird/
Betterbird.

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 11:55 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 09 May 2024 04:26:28 +0000, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On 09 May 2024 01:17:53 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird for
>>> Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is responsible
>>> for the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good old Pan works
>>> fine with Blocknews, but everything else seems to have trouble
>>> negotiating a connection. I've decided to just use a web app for my
>>> e-mail (which gives me a more direct access to how the server will
>>> handle my e-mail anyway), and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle both
>>> services in one app.
>>
>> I use Thunderbird for email and it does a good job but it had problems
>> with Usenet so I switched to Pan. I use individual.net for news so
>> Thunderbird struggled with more than Blocknews.
>
> As sad as this will sound, I'm glad to know that someone else has faced
> Usenet issues with Thunderbird. It's starting to confirm where the problem
> lies. Blocknews is working as it should with Pan, even from work.

I had a ton of issues with TB.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 12:01 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 09 May 2024 06:47:55 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>>> tools is that they look dated.
>>
>> Are they taking Microsoft, of all people, as arbiters of good taste?
>
> There are definitely more people out there who are fans of the Microsoft
> aesthetics than there are people who appreciate the dated interfaces of
> open-source software. All of them will admit that the "ugly" software
> still does the job, but it appears that the way a program looks is as
> important as whether it completes the task.

I'll admit I did like WinAero.
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

On Thu, 09 May 2024 15:10:10 +0000, candycanearter07 wrote:

> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 11:55 this Thursday (GMT):
>> On Thu, 09 May 2024 04:26:28 +0000, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On 09 May 2024 01:17:53 GMT, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, I've just abandoned Betterbird and Thunderbird
>>>> for Usenet since I am convinced that a bug in the software is
>>>> responsible for the Usenet problems I've been having of late. Good
>>>> old Pan works fine with Blocknews, but everything else seems to have
>>>> trouble negotiating a connection. I've decided to just use a web app
>>>> for my e-mail (which gives me a more direct access to how the server
>>>> will handle my e-mail anyway), and Pan for Usenet rather than bundle
>>>> both services in one app.
>>>
>>> I use Thunderbird for email and it does a good job but it had problems
>>> with Usenet so I switched to Pan. I use individual.net for news so
>>> Thunderbird struggled with more than Blocknews.
>>
>> As sad as this will sound, I'm glad to know that someone else has faced
>> Usenet issues with Thunderbird. It's starting to confirm where the
>> problem lies. Blocknews is working as it should with Pan, even from
>> work.
>
>
> I had a ton of issues with TB.

I'm just annoyed that it took me as long as it did to figure out that
Betterbird/Thunderbird was the problem, not the server. Either way, I had
already gotten accustomed to Pan in the past and dig the interface.

On Thu, 09 May 2024 15:10:11 +0000, candycanearter07 wrote:

> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 12:01 this Thursday (GMT):
>> On Thu, 09 May 2024 06:47:55 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>>>> tools is that they look dated.
>>>
>>> Are they taking Microsoft, of all people, as arbiters of good taste?
>>
>> There are definitely more people out there who are fans of the
>> Microsoft aesthetics than there are people who appreciate the dated
>> interfaces of open-source software. All of them will admit that the
>> "ugly" software still does the job, but it appears that the way a
>> program looks is as important as whether it completes the task.
>
>
> I'll admit I did like WinAero.

Yeah, Windows Vista had some nice stuff in there. I recall that it had
animated wallpapers that I liked a lot, and I was a fan of the widgets.
I'm not sure why they retired both. I can still get the former using the
AURA Wallpaper service on my computer, but I don't see why it can't be
standard on Windows 11. As for the widgets, I don't see why they were
removed. They worked, they looked right... I don't see what the problem
was.

Lester Thorpe wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 8 May 2024 09:51:03 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
>> ImageMagick is cool. I use "convert" to create a PDF document to send
>> filled-in forms. Scan each page and save as a JPEG, numbered to ensure page
>> ordering, then:
>
> If you're scanning text documents, JPEG is a poor format. You should
> use PNG or, the best, JBIG2.

The issue is that the PNGs are a lot larger than JPEGs, which makes them
sometimes impossible to email.

> Also, ImageMagick is poor for creating PDF files. USE img2pdf or jbig2enc:

Thanks for the tips. However, the current conversion has garnered no complaints
from the recipients.

> https://github.com/agl/jbig2enc
>
> https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf

--
You are magnetic in your bearing.

rbowman wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:

> On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI tools
>> is that they look dated. I'm not sure why this is such a problem,
>> especially if they still manage to get the job done, for free, in the
>> same amount of time.
>
> We heard that a lot from a VP who thought the Motif based producted looked
> 'dated'. When asked what it should look like or what GUI changes would
> make it easier to use, crickets. At one point he passed around screen
> shots of a competitor's product and I had to look very closely to tell it
> wasn't ours but it was 'better'.
>
> A long time ago I did an inventory control system. I learned that the
> people doing data entry hardly looked at the screen. I think I could have
> put up a dialog saying 'Your pantyhose are on fire!' and the wouldn't
> notice. What they did notice was anything that broke the pattern as they
> tabbed between boxes and entered the data.

Heh. On the classified-ad typesetting project I worked on, one of the
developers shortened a particular key-sequence by one character.

Hoo boy! The complaints were vociferous; the change was undone.

--
You'll be called to a post requiring ability in handling groups of people.

Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> wrote at 16:04 this Thursday (GMT):
> Lester Thorpe wrote this copyrighted missive and expects royalties:
>
>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 09:51:03 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>>> ImageMagick is cool. I use "convert" to create a PDF document to send
>>> filled-in forms. Scan each page and save as a JPEG, numbered to ensure page
>>> ordering, then:
>>
>> If you're scanning text documents, JPEG is a poor format. You should
>> use PNG or, the best, JBIG2.
>
> The issue is that the PNGs are a lot larger than JPEGs, which makes them
> sometimes impossible to email.
>
>> Also, ImageMagick is poor for creating PDF files. USE img2pdf or jbig2enc:
>
> Thanks for the tips. However, the current conversion has garnered no complaints
> from the recipients.
>
>> https://github.com/agl/jbig2enc
>>
>> https://gitlab.mister-muffin.de/josch/img2pdf

How strict is your email's attachment policy?
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom

Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 15:38 this Thursday (GMT):
> On Thu, 09 May 2024 15:10:11 +0000, candycanearter07 wrote:
>
>> Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote at 12:01 this Thursday (GMT):
>>> On Thu, 09 May 2024 06:47:55 +0000, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 8 May 2024 08:27:04 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the most common complaint of people using Linux CLI or GUI
>>>>> tools is that they look dated.
>>>>
>>>> Are they taking Microsoft, of all people, as arbiters of good taste?
>>>
>>> There are definitely more people out there who are fans of the
>>> Microsoft aesthetics than there are people who appreciate the dated
>>> interfaces of open-source software. All of them will admit that the
>>> "ugly" software still does the job, but it appears that the way a
>>> program looks is as important as whether it completes the task.
>>
>>
>> I'll admit I did like WinAero.
>
> Yeah, Windows Vista had some nice stuff in there. I recall that it had
> animated wallpapers that I liked a lot, and I was a fan of the widgets.
> I'm not sure why they retired both. I can still get the former using the
> AURA Wallpaper service on my computer, but I don't see why it can't be
> standard on Windows 11. As for the widgets, I don't see why they were
> removed. They worked, they looked right... I don't see what the problem
> was.

Maybe they just saw it as "outdated"?
Or maybe it was just removed in 8 to make it more "tablet friendly.."
--
user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom