DFS <guhnoo-basher@linux.advocaca> wrote:
>On 12/21/2024 3:43 PM, Lying Larry Piet wrote:
>
>> GNU/Linux, which is the greatest OS in the history of
>> technical man.
>
>That would be Unix. GuhNoo/Linux is just a copycat pretender.

It set a new standard for the Unix platform as a whole - for a
"copycat" that's pretty damn good.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 2025-01-07 22:05, DFS wrote:
> On 12/21/2024 3:43 PM, Lying Larry Piet wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Dec 2024 14:42:38 -0500, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If it were a serious operating system for serious people, businesses and
>>> academic institutions would be willing to run it,
>>>
>>
>> Hey.  Hey, mutherfucker.
>>
>> _I_ am an academic.
>
> How many instances and what subjects have you taught the last 2 years?

Ask him about the curriculum he's created for students. After all, if
he's as accomplished as he claims to be, he would generally be in charge
of a department and the person deciding what the students would have to
learn.

>> I hold a Masters degree with three papers published
>> in peer-reviewed scientific journals.
>
> There's no online record of an academic paper authored or co-authored by
> Larry Andrew Piet or Pietraskiewicz, or any combo of those names.
>
> Which means you're very likely a LIAR.

I'll say this much: Polish people have a tendency to exaggerate their
accomplishments when they reach the age of 40 and haven't done much with
their lives. I've seen it a lot in my community. Those who do well never
speak about what they did but those who didn't will inflate every action
to some grandiose level. Since the parents spend the child's lifetime
telling him that he is worthless unless this or that is done, they end
up being very hard on themselves. However, they cannot tolerate
criticism from anyone but themselves. It is sad to say but I've seen it
a lot.

>> I am also on the adjunct faculty
>> of several community colleges.
>
> Macomb Community College:
> Acceptance rate: 100%.
> Graduation rate:  16% (within 3 years)
>
> Aim for the stars, princess!

Damn, I had no idea they were that bad.

< snip >

>> You are a fucking loser
>
> From what I know about the two of you, Slimer is by far the more well-
> rounded, accomplished person.
>
> He's not a programmer, but neither are you.

When I was a kid, I was top of class and understood the material so
easily that every teacher was convinced that I would do marvelous
things. I understood things so easily that I got a little lazy with my
studies and was distracted by things like girls and an acne problem that
truly killed my self-confidence. People don't understand what it is like
to be the one suffering from that, so they offer little to no sympathy
to those afflicted. Anyways, studies took a backseat. Even though I had
pretty good grades in high school, I should have been top of the class
and ended up becoming an engineer or a doctor. However, even by 17 I
knew that I probably had Seasonal Affective Disorder and that working
summers was going to kill me. Therefore, teaching became the most
obvious solution.

There is no shortage of great intellect in my family. Two of my cousins
are already doctors, their little sister will be a veterinarian, my
cousin was programming in BASIC by the age of 5 and Assembler by 10 or
so, and the generation before ours was packed with engineers (if they
were second-generation Canadians, anyway). Being anything less than a
university graduate was considered disappointing.

< snip >

--
CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

CrudeSausage wrote:

>When I was a kid, I was top of class and understood the material so
>easily that every teacher was convinced that I would do marvelous
>things. I understood things so easily that I got a little lazy with my
>studies and was distracted by things like girls and an acne problem that
>truly killed my self-confidence. People don't understand what it is like
>to be the one suffering from that, so they offer little to no sympathy
>to those afflicted. Anyways, studies took a backseat. Even though I had
>pretty good grades in high school, I should have been top of the class
>and ended up becoming an engineer or a doctor. However, even by 17 I
>knew that I probably had Seasonal Affective Disorder and that working
>summers was going to kill me. Therefore, teaching became the most
>obvious solution.

I was always top of my classes, up until I became a "burnout" in high
school, anyway. I didn't even graduate. Fortunately, I eventually
grew-up and went back to school.

Even during my worst years I was a computer nerd, and I think that I
always knew that I'd eventually get my shit together and work with
computers. I realized that eventually I would need to work for a
living, and I didn't want it to be digging ditches.

>There is no shortage of great intellect in my family. Two of my cousins
>are already doctors, their little sister will be a veterinarian, my
>cousin was programming in BASIC by the age of 5 and Assembler by 10 or
>so, and the generation before ours was packed with engineers (if they
>were second-generation Canadians, anyway). Being anything less than a
>university graduate was considered disappointing.

I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
our niche in life, which is huge.

On 2025-01-09 08:17, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> When I was a kid, I was top of class and understood the material so
>> easily that every teacher was convinced that I would do marvelous
>> things. I understood things so easily that I got a little lazy with my
>> studies and was distracted by things like girls and an acne problem that
>> truly killed my self-confidence. People don't understand what it is like
>> to be the one suffering from that, so they offer little to no sympathy
>> to those afflicted. Anyways, studies took a backseat. Even though I had
>> pretty good grades in high school, I should have been top of the class
>> and ended up becoming an engineer or a doctor. However, even by 17 I
>> knew that I probably had Seasonal Affective Disorder and that working
>> summers was going to kill me. Therefore, teaching became the most
>> obvious solution.
>
> I was always top of my classes, up until I became a "burnout" in high
> school, anyway. I didn't even graduate. Fortunately, I eventually
> grew-up and went back to school.
>
> Even during my worst years I was a computer nerd, and I think that I
> always knew that I'd eventually get my shit together and work with
> computers. I realized that eventually I would need to work for a
> living, and I didn't want it to be digging ditches.

I don't miss working around computers, but I do miss the guys I worked
with. Nothing is more fun than hanging out with fellow nerds. These
muggles bother me immensely with their ignorance and constant
willingness to stab others in the back.

>> There is no shortage of great intellect in my family. Two of my cousins
>> are already doctors, their little sister will be a veterinarian, my
>> cousin was programming in BASIC by the age of 5 and Assembler by 10 or
>> so, and the generation before ours was packed with engineers (if they
>> were second-generation Canadians, anyway). Being anything less than a
>> university graduate was considered disappointing.
>
> I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
> engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
> our niche in life, which is huge.

I'm come to terms with the fact that teaching, while not always ideal,
is probably the most enjoyable job I would have had. If you've enjoyed
what you've been doing so far, there is no reason to question it.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

CrudeSausage wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
>> engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
>> our niche in life, which is huge.
>
>I'm come to terms with the fact that teaching, while not always ideal,
>is probably the most enjoyable job I would have had. If you've enjoyed
>what you've been doing so far, there is no reason to question it.

I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
programming.

But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

--
'[chrisv is] the same dimwit who thinks that determining if software
works or not is accomplished through "compile time warnings" and not
by actually testing the software.' - trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel",
lying shamelessly

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 08:15:13 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
> I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
> profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
> it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
> that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
> programming.
>

Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
if you had been hired. The kinds of shit programming that occurs
in most commercial businesses would make any intelligent person
cringe. It's all bullshit from start to finish, especially in
the web arena.

That's why I quit and I am extremely glad that I did.

For me, the only exception would be HPC, but that usually requires
a PhD in computational physics, and that's something which I did
not have (close but no cigar).

So congratulate yourself on your choice. The commercial programming
environment is pure shit and with the AI bubble it will get even
worse.

--
Gentoo: The Fastest GNU/Linux Hands Down

On 2025-01-11 09:15, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> I have two brothers. One is a doctor, the other a lawyer. As an
>>> engineer, I'm low man on the totem pole, I guess. But we all found
>>> our niche in life, which is huge.
>>
>> I'm come to terms with the fact that teaching, while not always ideal,
>> is probably the most enjoyable job I would have had. If you've enjoyed
>> what you've been doing so far, there is no reason to question it.
>
> I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
> profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
> it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
> that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
> programming.
>
> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

Le 11-01-2025, Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> a écrit :
>
> Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
> if you had been hired.

It's impressive. Your stupidity has no boundary. You are always able to
surpass yourself. There is no reason to look for a job you don't like.
Most people on the planet can't choose their job: they have to do a
difficult job for a bad salary provided them just enough money to eat.
And sometime, the job that destroy their health doesn't even not provide
them enough money to eat. So having the possibility to get a well payed
job you like is a blessing. Only a brain dead first class moron like you
can't understand that.

> The kinds of shit programming that occurs in most commercial
> businesses would make any intelligent person cringe. It's all
> bullshit from start to finish, especially in the web arena.

You don't explain why he shouldn't have fun. You explain what everyone
here already knows: you are a fraud. So nobody can work with you for
more than an hour (the time required to realize their mistake to have
trusted you). So, of course, your only defense is to consider every all
others as helpless when you are the issue.

> That's why I quit and I am extremely glad that I did.

You have been fired and you pretend to have quit before having fired.
But I'm not fooled.

> For me, the only exception would be HPC, but that usually requires
> a PhD in computational physics, and that's something which I did
> not have (close but no cigar).

OK, I'll have to fall back on a French website, I don't like it but I
don't know any similar website in English. Sorry for the non-French
speakers, I can't translate, it's too difficult but I'll explain.

So, for the answer, what you have is that:
<https://www.la-rache.com/certificat.html>
And now, I have to explain why what you took for a prize was a joke.
It's very easy to get your certificate, it should have ring a bell.

For the explanation of the website. You probably all have heard about
the waterfall and agile methods. In companies, a lot of things are done
at the last minute, not fully finished but with no more time left. Some
shortcuts have to be done for that. So, it's done but nobody is proud
about it. In French we say: « Ça a été fait à l'arrache. » in English,
we could say: "It has been done at the last minute." but the meaning is
not exactly the same. In French « à l'arrache » is pronounced the same
way as « à la RACHE », so the name of the institute : "The RACHE".

So, for the certificate's explanation/translation.
« Certificat de réussite
International Institute of La RACHE »
could be translated:
"Certificate of success
International Institute of The RACHE".

« 100% de réussite (ou presque) pour » would be translated "100% of
success (or almost) for".

"Prénom NOM" is where you put your name before printing it without
understanding this certificate is a joke and not something close to a
PhD.

« Qui est capable de mener à bien n'importe quel projet, même à
l'arrache. » can be translated "Who is able to manage to the end any
project, even at the last minute." Again, I don't like the translation
of "the last minute" for « à l'arrache » but I don't find better.

« Formé(e) à la cafèt, le 11/01/2025 » means something like "Instructed
at the coffee machine, the 11/01/2025".

« Le Président
METODA Gilles »
Once again, it's difficult to translate, so I'll have to explain. The
president doesn't need explanation, it's his name who requires one. So
as I said there is the agile methode. In French it's the « méthode
agile ». Which is pronounce like « méthode à Gilles » which means it's
the method of Gilles, where Gilles is a real French first name. And,
« Méthode à Gilles » is pronounced exactly like « METODA Gilles ». I
really don't see how it can be translated with the same meaning.

And the last:
« Chargé de formation
Le stagiaire » which can be translated:
"The instructor
the intern".

The rest of the website is great, but it requires French knowledge to be
appreciated.

So here is the only certificate you ever get, because it's easy to put your
name on it and it shows exactly your ability to work with others.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 11 Jan 2025 19:31:20 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>
> So nobody can work with you for
> more than an hour (the time required to realize their mistake to have
> trusted you).
>

An hour! It's more like 10 fucking minutes.

I do not tolerate idiots and it doesn't take me an hour to discern
that someone, like YOU, is a total idiot.

Then I throw his ass out.

>
> OK, I'll have to fall back on a French website,
>

Fuck the French. They do nothing.

In fact I have an image from the École polytechnique that was
processed from the RAW file by some "expert" from there. The
result is shit compared to my processing.

You, of course, will claim disbelief but you can go and fuck
yourself.

But if you prove that you are worthy I just may allow you to
view the comparative results.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!

--
Gentoo: The Fastest GNU/Linux Hands Down

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 08:15:13 -0600, chrisv wrote:

> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.

My career started in the machine tool industry, which at the time was
mostly based on relay logic. As microcontrollers entered the mix, drawing
ladder diagrams and wiring up ice cube relays was replaced by programming.
Logic is logic.

With my first exposure to programming being FORTRAN IV and punch cards I
wasn't interested in programming. When it got to the point where I could
wire-wrap a board on the kitchen table and program it the field became
interesting.

Le 11-01-2025, Farley Flud <fflud@gnu.rocks> a écrit :
> On 11 Jan 2025 19:31:20 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>>
>> So nobody can work with you for
>> more than an hour (the time required to realize their mistake to have
>> trusted you).
>>
>
> An hour! It's more like 10 fucking minutes.

Which would prove you are stupider than your claims. If it takes you 10
minutes to discover that a job doesn't fit you, it means you could have
discovered that before being hired. So, once again, any of your claims
pretending you are smart proves you are idiot. I'm using your only word
here to be sure you'll appreciate it.

> I do not tolerate idiots and it doesn't take me an hour to discern
> that someone, like YOU, is a total idiot.

Your lack of imagination is tiring. I get your badge of honor, I refuse
your insult.

> Then I throw his ass out.

You never managed to throw me out. So, once again: big mouth, little
abilities.

>> OK, I'll have to fall back on a French website,
>
> Fuck the French.

OK, that's a proof that this website is great.

> They do nothing.

You always brag about sound quality but you are still using your
computer with a shit audio card to hear music. If you were really
interested in sound quality, you would have heard of atoll which is
French and provide good quality products:
<https://www.atoll-electronique.com/>

But, as always, you despise everyone that's better than you (which mean
pretty everyone in the world) and you can't learn anything.

> In fact I have an image from the École polytechnique that was
> processed from the RAW file by some "expert" from there. The
> result is shit compared to my processing.

That means nothing. It's the perfect sentence explained in the website
which method you follow. You don't try to provide information, you try
to impress. And you fail miserably because you lack the developed brain
needed to that.

> You, of course, will claim disbelief

Not this time because your claims means nothing, so I can neither
believe it nor refuse to believe it.

> but you can go and fuck yourself.

I can do what I want and I never follow your retard advice.

> But if you prove that you are worthy I just may allow you to
> view the comparative results.

I have nothing to prove to you. You are my toy. I'm answering your
messages to have fun and to improve my English. Not to prove anything to
you. I don't argue with wheelbarrows, I push them. Try to understand
what that means.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 1/11/2025 1:34 PM, Ludicrous Larry Piet wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 08:15:13 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>
>>
>> I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
>> profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
>> it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
>> that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
>> programming.
>>
>
> Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
> if you had been hired.

Fun? It's called work, bozo.

But if you like coding, it will be fun and interesting.

> The kinds of shit programming that occurs
> in most commercial businesses would make any intelligent person
> cringe. It's all bullshit from start to finish, especially in
> the web arena.
>
> That's why I quit and I am extremely glad that I did.

Stop lying. You quit because you were an incompetent programmer.

> For me, the only exception would be HPC, but that usually requires
> a PhD in computational physics, and that's something which I did
> not have (close but no cigar).
>
> So congratulate yourself on your choice. The commercial programming
> environment is pure shit and with the AI bubble it will get even
> worse.

Another ignorant Feeb post, borne of your failure to secure a
programming job, and your jealousy of those who succeed and make a good
living at it.

Quit babbling your ignorance. There is a SHITLOAD of interesting
programming work in the corporate world.

CrudeSausage wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
>> profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
>> it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
>> that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
>> programming.
>>
>> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
>> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.
>
>Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
>that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
>result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
>have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
>would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
>better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.

I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go. In my
job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain my 30+ year
tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that no one else
does.

On 2025-01-11 17:50, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
>>> profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
>>> it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
>>> that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
>>> programming.
>>>
>>> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
>>> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.
>>
>> Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
>> that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
>> result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
>> have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
>> would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
>> better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.
>
> I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
> gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go. In my
> job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain my 30+ year
> tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that no one else
> does.

At this point, I'm content with being the one teacher in the building
who actually knows something about how technology works. In a way, I
regret that I didn't choose another field and in another way, I don't. I
would have truly hated to work summers.

--
CrudeSausage
Gab: @CrudeSausage
Unapologetic paleoconservative

Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Farley Flud wrote:
>>
>> Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
>> if you had been hired.
>
>It's impressive. Your stupidity has no boundary. You are always able to
>surpass yourself. There is no reason to look for a job you don't like.
>Most people on the planet can't choose their job: they have to do a
>difficult job for a bad salary provided them just enough money to eat.
>And sometime, the job that destroy their health doesn't even not provide
>them enough money to eat. So having the possibility to get a well payed
>job you like is a blessing. Only a brain dead first class moron like you
>can't understand that.
>
>> The kinds of shit programming that occurs in most commercial
>> businesses would make any intelligent person cringe. It's all
>> bullshit from start to finish, especially in the web arena.
>
>You don't explain why he shouldn't have fun.

Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
people get to live. Plus you'll out-perform everyone who is only
doing it for the paycheck.

Not to disparage my job. It's OK. Sometimes fun. I'm fscking-around
with computers and electronics all day, so it's what I like and am
good at.

On 2025-01-11, chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:
>
>> Farley Flud wrote:
>>>
>>> Poor choice. You would have immediately stopped having fun
>>> if you had been hired.
>>
>>It's impressive. Your stupidity has no boundary. You are always able to
>>surpass yourself. There is no reason to look for a job you don't like.
>>Most people on the planet can't choose their job: they have to do a
>>difficult job for a bad salary provided them just enough money to eat.
>>And sometime, the job that destroy their health doesn't even not provide
>>them enough money to eat. So having the possibility to get a well payed
>>job you like is a blessing. Only a brain dead first class moron like you
>>can't understand that.
>>
>>> The kinds of shit programming that occurs in most commercial
>>> businesses would make any intelligent person cringe. It's all
>>> bullshit from start to finish, especially in the web arena.
>>
>>You don't explain why he shouldn't have fun.
>
> Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
> people get to live. Plus you'll out-perform everyone who is only
> doing it for the paycheck.
>
> Not to disparage my job. It's OK. Sometimes fun. I'm fscking-around
> with computers and electronics all day, so it's what I like and am
> good at.
>
I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
pure money.
Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
even if making lot's of money sucks.
All my kids turned out fine.
Different professions, different salaries, but all happy with their choice.

--
pothead

"Give a man a fish and you turn him into a Democrat for life"
"Teach a man to fish and he might become a self-sufficient conservative Republican"
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to fuck things up,"
--- Barack H. Obama

On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 01:16:05 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:

> I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
> pure money.
> Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
> even if making lot's of money sucks.

Three months was my limit for any job I didn't enjoy. One evening at the
Cafe Lena I overheard two couple that looked like 'young professionals' at
the adjacent table talking between acts. The topic: how much our jobs
suck. All four of them hated whatever they were doing.

The Lena was sort of a proto-hippie coffee house and I wanted to yell
'Tune In! Turn On! Drop Out!'

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 16:50:36 -0600, chrisv wrote:

> I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
> gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go. In my
> job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain my 30+ year
> tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that no one else does.

I've lasted over 25 years at my current job because I got old and slow. In
my prime a project coming to completion meant it was time to look for a
new job with an even more challenging project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soul_of_a_New_Machine

Kidder asked one of the people what they got from working insane hours.
The answer was the opportunity to work on the next insane project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y70yVMUy3A0

"So put me on a highway
And show me a sign
And take it to the limit one more time"

It was an Eagle's song but what ran through my mind was Waylon and
Willie.

pothead wrote:

> chrisv wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
>> people get to live. Plus you'll out-perform everyone who is only
>> doing it for the paycheck.
>>
>> Not to disparage my job. It's OK. Sometimes fun. I'm fscking-around
>> with computers and electronics all day, so it's what I like and am
>> good at.
>>
>I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
>pure money.
>Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
>even if making lot's of money sucks.
>All my kids turned out fine.
>Different professions, different salaries, but all happy with their choice.

Yeah, I supported my daughter's choice to be an artist. I would have
preferred something like health care, where a good living is virtually
guaranteed. But she was passionate about art, so I paid for her four
years at a fancy art college.

Fortunately, she got a job in her field. The pay is only okay, but
she's doing what she loves. With my support, she doesn't have any
money worries, anyway.

On 11 Jan 2025 19:31:20 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

>
> So here is the only certificate you ever get, because it's easy to put your
> name on it and it shows exactly your ability to work with others.
>

I don't work with others because most people are too slow and
too stupid, just like all the jackasses on this NG.

I am not being arrogant. This is a fact of reality.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.

Le 12-01-2025, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> a écrit :
> On Sun, 12 Jan 2025 01:16:05 -0000 (UTC), pothead wrote:
>
>> I taught my kids to pick a career that they enjoyed rather than look for
>> pure money.
>> Of course money is the #1 criteria for young folks but being miserable
>> even if making lot's of money sucks.
>
> Three months was my limit for any job I didn't enjoy. One evening at the
> Cafe Lena I overheard two couple that looked like 'young professionals' at
> the adjacent table talking between acts. The topic: how much our jobs
> suck. All four of them hated whatever they were doing.
>
> The Lena was sort of a proto-hippie coffee house and I wanted to yell
> 'Tune In! Turn On! Drop Out!'

It's not always that easy. If you have never been able to learn anything
useful, the job offer is limited. When you have two opportunities will
good salaries, it's easy to pick the most enjoyable one even if it means
a little bit less money. But if anybody can take the jobs you can
choose, then the probability that the offers are at the same time poorly
remunerated and uninteresting is high.

OK, I know, the rightists will say that if you have never learned
anything useful, it's because you are an unmotivated failure. And the
leftists will say that it's all because of the system. But, it's the
reason I never talk politic here, it's because the reality is in the
middle. What you do in your life is part of luck and part of what you
did by yourself in the past. So telling others what they should do when
you know nothing about them is a bad thing to do.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On 1/11/25 5:50 PM, chrisv wrote:
> CrudeSausage wrote:
>
>> chrisv wrote:
>>>
>>> I've often thought that I should have went into programming as a
>>> profession. I programmed a lot when I was young, and really enjoyed
>>> it. The only times at work when I felt that I was having so much fun
>>> that I didn't want to go home for the evening was when I was
>>> programming.
>>>
>>> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
>>> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.
>>
>> Even if I had learned to program more than I did, I was always worried
>> that there would be faster and better programmers out there. As a
>> result, I was worried that if I had gone into that field, I would never
>> have been able to hold down a job for long. There's a chance that I
>> would have fallen in love with it and done everything to get much
>> better, but I have to admit that I was never that enamoured with it either.
>
> I was concerned about the stability of the programming job. A project
> gets axed, or completed, and the programmers might be let-go.

Back in the 80s/90s; AT&T some others were quite notorious about
treating their programmer staff as extremely fungible - the rule of
thumb was 5 years on a big project, then an 75% purge. Pay was good but
short-lived, as the odds of making it through two cycles were pretty
low, as Quality of Life suffers because they expected overtime too.

> In my job, I'm well embedded into the system, helping to explain
> my 30+ year tenure. Now, as the "OG", I know a lot of stuff that
> no one else does.

Old bench technicians & lab rats are always great because of their depth
of expertise in their specialty area. One just needs to be careful to
not push them out of their comfort zone. Had one such oldtimer retire
this past summer & move to Texas .. he's already having second thoughts
on the whole "moving south for better weather" - and this week's
ice/snow probably has them wondering if they escaped any of that too.

-hh

rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 08:15:13 -0600, chrisv wrote:
>
>> But I had my safe, and tolerable, niche in electronics manufacturing,
>> and I was too cowardly to risk the career change.
>
> My career started in the machine tool industry, which at the time was
> mostly based on relay logic. As microcontrollers entered the mix, drawing
> ladder diagrams and wiring up ice cube relays was replaced by programming.
> Logic is logic.
>
> With my first exposure to programming being FORTRAN IV and punch cards I
> wasn't interested in programming. When it got to the point where I could
> wire-wrap a board on the kitchen table and program it the field became
> interesting.

I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming.
The I transferred to hearing science and ended up writing FORTRAN code to drive
stimulus/response boxes and noise generators on the PDP-11. Also wrote a pretty
decent HP pen-plotter program in FORTRAN. Around that time I took a course in C
programming on the PDP-11, using TECO as the text editor.

As time went on programming slowly took over and most of my work life involved
writing code.

Today I am retired, but still writing a lot of code (and doing a lot of
debugging, too :-D). C++, a little C as well.

--
If any man wishes to be humbled and mortified, let him become president
of Harvard.
-- Edward Holyoke

Le 12-01-2025, Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> a écrit :
>
> I went into physics because I thought I would become bored with programming.

I can understand one can become bored with programming in some company
doing always the same stuff. But in a general way, I don't understand
how one can get bored with programming. And that's one thing DFS will
never be able to contest about the superiority of FOSS over proprietary
software. With proprietary software, to get chalenges in programming,
you have to get hired by the company to work on it first. With FOSS,
there are so many lines of codes in so many programming languages
waiting for you to improve them that you can have fun as long as you
want.

--
Si vous avez du temps à perdre :
https://scarpet42.gitlab.io

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 17:47:28 -0600, chrisv wrote:

>
> Yeah, having a job that is actually fun is "the dream" that not many
> people get to live.
>

If you want to have fun with programming then start your own FOSS project.
You will get to work on something that you enjoy as well as provide the
world with something useful.

Be sure to publish on GitLab or equivalents. IOW stay off GitHub.

You may even attract other contributors.

I have a couple of software projects (all C of course) that are
waiting in the wings.

But the code has to be more than good. It has to be perfect. Unlike
the sloppy work that is usually performed in some grubbing corp,
where incompetence can easily be buried, the eyes of the world will
be upon you.

--
Systemd: solving all the problems that you never knew you had.