Joel wrote:

>For my 14th birthday, I got a CDDA player by Pioneer, fresh 1991 model
>at the time, with a 20 bit DAC. I thought it was amazing - until I
>replaced it with a DVD-Audio/SACD player in 2004. And before long, I
>got a DVD-Audio grade sound card for my computer, too. Primitive DAC
>chips were *trash*, and *that* is where the myth of vinyl sounding
>better came from.

The early Japanese DAC's were trash, but the Phillips DAC's were
always good. The bigger problem was bad mastering. Crack-smoking
incompetents didn't know that the *fsck* they were doing, initially.
I would swear that some early CD's were made with the RIAA
equalization for LP's applied, reducing the bass to nothingness and
making the highs shill to the point of unlistenable.

I mean, if you're listening to a power trio, like Rush, and you can't
hardly hear the bass, something went *very* wrong. How the artists
allowed their music to be released, in such conditions, is something
of a mystery, to me.

On 25 May 2024 22:08:45 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> I'm not claiming I can hear any difference but ADC/DAC will have
> quantization and other errors.

Quantization distortion is fixed with dithering. It’s effectively noise,
but it’s still less noise than you get with those scratchy discs that you
have to stick a needle into.

On 25 May 2024 21:58:48 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> Speaking of mistreating -- I remember a Cub Scout project that consisted
> of making candy dishes out of 78 rpm records. Heat them up in the over,
> bend the edges into flutes, apply paint, and you were good. I wonder how
> many classics were lost?

Those would have been made of shellac, not vinyl, though.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 00:55:11 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro
<ldo@nz.invalid> wrote in <v2u19f$33nmn$5@dont-email.me>:

> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>
> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring
> out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.

(Non sequitur follows about OP)

It occurs to me that Microsoft wouldn't move to a Linux kernel due
to so many drivers for one-off devices being Windows-only.

There was a Linux component at one time that would wrap a
Windows network driver, can't remember what that was. I guess
something like that could be added by Microsoft to Linux...

--
-v

On 25 May 2024 21:46:34 GMT, rbowman wrote:

> There weren't many options in the '70s other than 8-tracks, Cassettes
> eventually caught up ...

Audio cassettes not only caught up, they kept on improving into the 1990s.
Tape technology kept getting better, with better coating formulations
(different oxides, metal particles), binders, and all the rest of it. That
benefited camcorders and also audiocassette players (and reel units, for
those who still wanted them, no doubt). And also computer tape backups.

Nobody ever thought that that thin sliver of tape in a “Compact Cassette”
could ever achieve “hi-fi” status, but it did.

If you want to revive an analog technology, tape is by far the superior
candidate. It didn’t remain stuck in 1970s limitations, like vinyl.

Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> Slimer wrote:
>>
>> I just don't expect [Microsoft] to sacrifice complete control.
>
>In the Open Source world, *nobody* has “complete control”. You just have
>to deal with it.

I think that's Slime's point.

--
'Most of these "advocates" in COLA are completely clueless as to how
the real world functions. They need to stop dry humping each other's
leg once in a while and take an objective look at how the world
functions. To these bozo's their OSS software is so great, wonderful
and "perfect" and anyone who doesn't use it is either stupid or
corrupt. If these morons had a clue they would be able to see just how
stupid they sound.' - trolling fsckwit "Ezekiel"

On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:10:33 -0400, DFS wrote:

> ... then turn on the Recall feature (assuming of course that MS would
> not be so arrogant as to force such a risky thing on users) ...

Because of course Microsoft has never overridden user settings before, has
it ...

On Sat, 25 May 2024 15:46:15 -0400, DFS wrote:

> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>
>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>
> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?

It’s only about 25% of the total computing market.

Just for example, more Android smartphones ship per year than the entire
Windows installed base.

On 2024-05-25 3:44 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/25/2024 1:11 PM, Joel wrote:
>> shitv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> "So sorry, but Vista is a big sales and financial success for MS - and
>>> will shortly finish wiping the floor with Linux and it's 392 free
>>> distros."  -  some dumb fsck
>
> And it did wipe the floor with Linux - as EVERY desktop Windows version
> has - reaching 24% market share within a couple/few years, while Linux
> never even reached 2% within 20 years.

Fact.

>> That really is funny,
>
> It WAS funny to see various drunk cola idiots declare Vista a "failure".
>  I watched it in realtime, here on cola.
>
> But some Win over Lin beatdowns are funnier than others.  The funniest
> ones are those where the goobers at the Free Software Foundation declare
> "victory" over MS or Windows - AFTER MS sells hundreds of millions of
> Windows licenses.
>
> I don't know if Microsoft can recover from those beatdowns.

I actually thought that Vista was pretty good. It was slow to refresh a
Windows Explorer window for whatever reason, but it was otherwise
alright on a decent machine. I've said it before here though: the betas
were absolutely awful and when we got word that it was releasing to
manufacturer, I was very surprised. The product was nowhere near ready
to ship, in my opinion.

>> because of how many people literally put XP on machines sold with Vista.
>
> That's just lies and imagination.

Low-end machines with Vista pre-installed probably had many owners ask
friends to install XP on it for them. I have no doubt about it,
actually. However, the numbers were probably not that large. Most people
probably suffered through Vista and eventually upgraded when 7 was released.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-25 3:46 p.m., DFS wrote:
> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>> On May 23, 2024 at 7:58:35 AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> There is no benefit to a corporation looking to have a monopoly to use
>>> UNIX. Microsoft will hold onto the Windows core for as long as they
>>> can, and if they replace it, they will likely do so with a rewritten
>>> Windows core.
>>
>> Microsoft has no monopoly.  On anything.
>
> True.  And they never did.

In the late 90s, there was no doubt that there was no meaningful
competition for Internet Explorer. It's not a coincidence that Netscape
open-sourced their engine before the millennium was up.

>> It is to their benefit to retire Windows.
>
> heh!
>
> Might as well toss your application for membership to the MS Board of
> Directors in the trash.
>
>
>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>
> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?
>
> (I can't find it any longer, but I recall seeing somewhere online that
> Windows reached 97.5% desktop market share)

It's probably a worldwide statistics. There are many countries in which
people can't afford a Mac no matter what they do or see no purpose for
such a machine, so Apple's coverage is minimal. In the United States,
the Mac probably has a good 20% market share but not anywhere else.

>> Monopolies don't go from 95% of the market to 70%.
>
> I thought you were slinging bullshit, but 2 sites I trust confirm approx
> those numbers.
>
>
> 1st datasource
>
> https://analytics.usa.gov/data/live/os.csv
>
> summary of raw data downloaded at 1:50pm today
>
> #  OS          Site Visits (last 30 days)
> -------------------------------------
> 1  iOS         564742856
> 2  Windows     540394858
> 3  Android     309334579
> 4  Macintosh   174235737
> 5  Linux        42301343
> 6  Chrome OS    31815361
> 7  (not set)     1388130
> 8  (other)        894191
> 9  Win32          159772
> 10 Tizen           29973
> 12 Fuchsia         22361
> 13 OS/2            16369
> 14 Firefox OS      12761
> 15 Playstation 4   12249
> 16 FreeBSD          4021
> 17 NIX              3758
> 18 BlackBerry       3468
> 19 SymbianOS         791
> 20 Windows Phone     521
> 21 OpenBSD           265
> 22 Sony              243
> 23 NetBSD            172
> ------------------------
> Total      1,665,373,779
> ------------------------
>
>
> desktop/laptop (11): Windows, Macintosh, Linux, Chrome OS, Win32, OS/2,
> FreeBSD, Unix, NIX, OpenBSD, NetBSD
> phone/mobile (6): iOS, Android, Blackberry, FirefoxOS, SymbianOS, WinPhone
> other (6): Tizen, Fuschia, Playstation, Sony, (other), (not set)
>
> One entry in the raw data was blank.  I assigned (not set).
>
>
> Results for desktop/laptop:
> OS             Visits    % Total
> ----------------------------------
> Windows     540554630   68.5% (incl Win32)
> Macintosh   174235737   22.1%
> Linux        42301343    5.4%
> Chrome OS    31815361    4.0%
> OS/2            16369    0.0021%
> FreeBSD          4021    0.0005%
> UNIX             3758    0.0005%
> OpenBSD           265    0.0000%
> NetBSD            172    0.0000%
> ----------------------------------
> Total     788,931,656    100%
>
>
> Last time I used that source - 4 years ago - it had Linux at 1.6%.
>
>
>
> 2nd datasource
>
> https://analytics.wikimedia.org/dashboards/browsers/#desktop-site-by-os/os-family-timeseries
>
> May 12 2024
>
> Windows  62.3%
> MacOS    17.5%
> Other    15.6%
> Linux     2.2%
>
>
>
>
> From 10-15 years ago, big Windows drop, big Mac gain, Linux up
> significantly depending on source.

Linux will definitely go up even more once people find out more about
Microsoft Recall. It won't overtake Windows or Mac, but whoever already
spent a lot of money on x86-64 hardware will probably opt to use Linux
if they're disgusted by what Microsoft is doing rather than buy new
hardware and give the money they are disgusted by even more money.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-25 5:50 p.m., rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:46:56 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> A while back, a friend of mine's husband was trying to sell me on vinyl
>> as I was buying some of his CDs. He was telling me how the sound is
>> better, this and that. The entire time, I was reminding myself of the
>> constant popping I would hear when listening to albums as a kid. The
>> slightest thing would ruin the sound on that vinyls.
>
> Well, yeah, a kid with grape jelly on his fingers did tend to degrade
> vinyl records. I had fairly decent equipment and didn't get the frying
> bacon effect once I got past the 78/45/33 1/3 rpm automatic changer stage.

Shockingly, we took good care of the records we had. We had so few of
them that we didn't want to lose any. In fact, my brother and I had so
little that we generally grew up taking care of what we did own.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to
>> develop for Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available
>> to alternative systems like Linux instead.
>
> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring out
> WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.

In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
reason to worry.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-25 8:58 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 15:44:51 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/25/2024 1:11 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>
>>> shitv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "So sorry, but Vista is a big sales and financial success for MS - and
>>>> will shortly finish wiping the floor with Linux and it's 392 free
>>>> distros." - some dumb fsck
>>
>> And it did wipe the floor with Linux ...
>
> Sure it did. So “Aero Glass” 3D effects worked really well, did it? To the
> point where users were filing lawsuits over the confusion between “Vista-
> capable” and “Vista-ready”.
>
> Meanwhile, real-time Compiz effects were running quite comfortably under
> Linux, on hardware as modest as this Asus Eee 701 with its 900-MHz single-
> core Celeron, that I still have just nearby.

Meanwhile, if you activated Compiz effects, they ran nice for about ten
minutes and then caused your windows to turn black. Soon, the entire GUI
became impossible to use.

Say what you will about Microsoft's effects in Windows, at least they
were consistent and worked right.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-25 9:00 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:17:29 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> On 2024-05-24 7:42 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> That was strictly a limitation of the original Itunes software ...
>>
>> Good to know, but that just confirms that Linux will always be playing
>> catch-up in supporting hardware.
>
> It was offering features that the vendors’ own proprietary software would
> not.

My point is that if a manufacturer develops decent hardware and released
it on January 1st and the Linux developers provide a feature for it on
January 2nd, the manufacturer can go ahead and block that open-source
feature on the 3rd necessitating an update on the 4th. These companies
have no interest in allowing people to do the most basic things with
their hardware, so they can and will close them to whatever software is
produced for that task. Hence, you are always playing catch-up.

It would be better if manufacturers produced hardware which is
completely open from day one. Some have tried, but there is always a
lack of polish to them, pushing people toward the proprietary and
restrictive device instead.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:42:34 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>
>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring
>> out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.
>
> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
> reason to worry.

Please define professional software for developers. I want to see what I'm
missing.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 18:44:16 -0400, Joel wrote:

> 8.x was better than 7, just put Classic Shell's start menu on and boom.
> Vista was uniquely a beta version of the NT series.

You've got to watch the 'x' Windows 8 dot nothing sucked. 8.1 put the
start menu back where it belonged. It might have been a clue when they
tried to mimic the failing Windows Phone interface.

Windows Server 2012 also had the Metro stuff which was particularly stupid
for a server. It was followed by 2012 R2.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:22:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> In the late 90s, there was no doubt that there was no meaningful
> competition for Internet Explorer. It's not a coincidence that Netscape
> open-sourced their engine before the millennium was up.

Very late 90s. IE 5 was the first to capture market share. iirc it was a
star witness in United States v. Microsoft Corporation.

It had a couple of years of grace before it became primarily a tool for
installing Firefox.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:10:33 -0400, DFS wrote:

> You'll first have to buy a new Copilot+ PC, then turn on the Recall
> feature (assuming of course that MS would not be so arrogant as to force
> such a risky thing on users) and let it capture everything you do.

Force? Certainly not. Of course there will be the stream of
'recommendations'.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 01:07:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

> If you want to revive an analog technology, tape is by far the superior
> candidate. It didn’t remain stuck in 1970s limitations, like vinyl.

Excuse me while I pop in my Blind Willie McTell tape... I have a USB
cassette player that can be used to rip tapes to mp3s but it's painful.
Tape being tape you have to spool through in real time and since there is
no metadata you then have to figure out what track 01, track 02 etc is.

McTell's 'Atlanta Twelve-String' was recorded in 1949 so there may have
been some magic involved before it made it to tape.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 20:00:34 -0400, Joel wrote:

> rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>
>>>>I wish he knew about NNTP clients that don't entirely fuck up the
>>>>text.
>>>
>>> Isn't he using the same one as you?
>>
>>I don't know but the posts with all the rainbow crap come through with a
>>lot of UTF-8 encoding.
>
>
> Isn't that Jen's posts?

Could be. Even the author line is a bunch of rainbows, unicorns, and
stuff.

On 5/25/2024 9:11 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 15:46:15 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>>
>>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>>
>> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?
>
> It’s only about 25% of the total computing market.

What is this 'total computing market' comprised of?
Who defined it?
Who measures it?
How is it measured?

> Just for example, more Android smartphones ship per year than the entire
> Windows installed base.

Very doubtful.

I found this bit of kookery:

"In 2023, shipments of smartphones running on Android were estimated at
over 960 billion units, compared to only 225 million running Apple's iOS."

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1368997/global-smartphone-os-shipments/

LMAO! Looks like Statista hired a lying Linux kook, and they started
using LibreOffice Calc.

On 5/25/2024 10:31 PM, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:10:33 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> You'll first have to buy a new Copilot+ PC, then turn on the Recall
>> feature (assuming of course that MS would not be so arrogant as to force
>> such a risky thing on users) and let it capture everything you do.
>
> Force? Certainly not. Of course there will be the stream of
> 'recommendations'.

I don't sign into Win11 with an MS account, but I've been using their
latest Outlook app (not the one in Office) with an old anonymous hotmail
acct.

Suddenly my Start | DFS button is asking for a phone number to 'recover'
the hotmail account in case I get locked out. This didn't happen when I
accessed the hotmail acct via a browser.

WTF is it with Microsoft (and Google) wanting people's personal info?

Don't they know trolls REQUIRE anonymity, and the Internet is filled
with us?

On May 25, 2024 at 3:46:15 PM EDT, "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:

> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>> On May 23, 2024 at 7:58:35 AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> There is no benefit to a corporation looking to have a monopoly to use
>>> UNIX. Microsoft will hold onto the Windows core for as long as they
>>> can, and if they replace it, they will likely do so with a rewritten
>>> Windows core.
>>
>> Microsoft has no monopoly. On anything.
>
> True. And they never did.
>
>
>> It is to their benefit to retire Windows.
>
> heh!
>
> Might as well toss your application for membership to the MS Board of
> Directors in the trash.
>
>
>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>
> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?
>
> (I can't find it any longer, but I recall seeing somewhere online that
> Windows reached 97.5% desktop market share)
>
>
>
>> Monopolies don't go from 95% of the market to 70%.
>
> I thought you were slinging bullshit, but 2 sites I trust confirm approx
> those numbers.

I never sling bullshit. I use statcounter at <https://gs.statcounter.com>

LOTS of interesting stats there. Breakdowns by
platform/country/global/OS/Browser/vendor/search engine/region and many more.

They track websites all over the world. Quote from "About"

"Data Sample

Stats are based on aggregate data collected by Statcounter on a sample
exceeding 5 billion pageviews per month collected from across the Statcounter
network of more than 1.5 million websites. Stats are updated and made
available every day, however are subject to quality assurance testing and
revision for 45 days from publication."

Highly recommended.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:42:34 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>
>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring
>> out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.
>
> In favour of Linux?

Yes. After all, it wasn’t “WSM” or “WSA” or “WSI” or “WSB” or anything
else, it was “WSL”. Linux compatibility was what was needed.

On Sat, 25 May 2024 23:59:22 -0400, DFS wrote:

> WTF is it with Microsoft (and Google) wanting people's personal info?

Their revenue models depend on it.

Are you a good, loyal, obedient Microsoft supporter, or aren’t you?