On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 00:49:59 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> Find an old International Harvester truck ... SOLID steel all
> through. Parts may be tricky though ...

My '86 F-150 is reasonably solid. I was sitting in it reading in a parking
lot when a woman trying to park backed into it. I didn't even bother to
get out to see if she'd done any damage. That was the front bumper. If
she'd backed into the step,n,tow bumper on the rear her problems might
have been greater.

On 2025-01-03 07:35, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:
> On 1/2/25 6:33 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/01/2025 21:33, rbowman wrote:
>>>> wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence
>>>> either
>>>> and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for
>>>> directly
>>>> or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
>>>
>>> Companies exist in a phase of 'rising star' 'mature' 'cash cow' and
>>> 'death spiral'
>>>
>>> IBM for example died years ago - the company today is just the old
>>> business services division.
>>>
>>> No company I ever worked for is extant today in anything like its
>>> original form.
>>
>> I wonder if a new owner would be able to shake some life into z and p?
>> As it is, IBM seems to be trying to kill those lines hard with high
>> prices.
>
>
>   I've got a fair bit of IBM stock ... it's NOT "dead",
>   indeed pays pretty good interest. The corp just found
>   other ways to make a buck and is large enough to make
>   it work.
>
>   But its core biz is NOT exactly what it was in the 80s
>   and previous.
>
>   You still CAN buy an IBM mainframe - up to four linked
>   Big Black Z Boxes with impressive specs. Even runs the
>   IBM-branded RedHat if you want (many do). If you've
>   got a busy global biz, a good way to go.

I have a friend that got a new, very well paying, job at some job with
IBM hardware and doing new things with it (including buying more
hardware). Financial or bank sector.

They need hardware that is immensely capable and runs full time in some
sectors.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-03 04:05, rbowman wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025 01:46:39 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
>> cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
>> damage to the car. Carter years?
>
> Can't blame Jimmy for that one. It all started in '71, so Nixon years.
>
>> Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
>> of that.

Survival rates increased in both sides of accidents.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>
>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>
> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
> design choice.
>

What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:

> On 1/2/25 6:22 AM, D wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
>>>>
>>>> This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
>>>
>>> Trolling 101.  Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
>>>
>>> The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
>>> can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
>>> person would side with the dipshit.
>>>
>>> Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
>>> in this thread, from now on.
>>
>> Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
>> lost. =)
>
>
> Goodness, chrisv's new year just hasn't started out well for him.
> Time will tell if he metastasizes into YA case of chronic butthurt.
>
>
> -hh
>

We will pray for him! =) Hopefully all will end well for him.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, -hh wrote:

> On 1/2/25 6:28 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 23:20:50 +0100, D wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jokes aside, I always thought they all look like Kristi Noem. I can live
>>>> with that! =D
>>>
>>> There are quite a few of that model. She's Norwegian and according to the
>>> 2000 census 10.6% of the state claimed Norwegian ancestry, beating the
>>> Indians by 3%. fwiw, 27% claimed German ancestry. A friend in the know
>>> told me the majority of the Sons of Norway are Germans. That will teach
>>> them to open membership to non-Norwegians.
>>>
>>> While it's changing but if you look around at any local event it could be
>>> any place in northern Europe.
>>
>> Santa brought me that book about norwegians emigrating to the US. It is
>> waiting for me, when I get back to eastern europe (the book store lost it,
>> had to track it, and ship it again, but now it's waiting for me). Looking
>> forward to it! =)
>
>
> I just happened to see this post this week - it has a DNA map from Viking
> grave sites across Europe:
>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ScienceNaturePage/photos/a-massive-effort-to-sequence-the-dna-of-vikings-across-europe-was-recently-publi/1126048608976007/?_rdr>
>
> TL;DR: the Vikings got all over the place, predominantly by navigating up
> rivers ...
>
> Including within Germany, so the statement of a lot of Germans as members of
> the Sons of Norway makes sense.
>
>
> -hh

I think this was common knowledge, but maybe this serves to prove it more
fully? I always wonder how much DNA I have from eastern europe since my
ancestors travelled east down to turkey. On the other hand, on my mothers
side, my ancestors fled norway to iceland, and those guys were travelling
more in southwestern europe. Could probably be some DNA from there as
well.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>
> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>

I've been running XFCE for at least a decade and I for me it is a nice
sweet spot of a more comprehensive desktop environment that is also fairly
light on resources.

I do not use the menu system, but only a keyboard launcher instead.

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 12:30:14 +0100, D wrote:
>
>
>> Postgres is interesting. It's old, but doesn't get mentioned a lot these
>> days. Would you say their engineering culture is something to study?
>
> Are you kidding?
>
> https://www.enterprisedb.com/blog/postgres-most-admired-database-in-stack-
> overflow-2023
>
> https://www.timescale.com/blog/postgres-for-everything
>
> What is important to me is the PostGIS add-on.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PostGIS
>
> SQLite has a similar extension:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpatiaLite

Interesting! Clearly I live in a corner of the IT space that is way, way
too fashionable. I am of course aware of postgres, but have not
encountered it for many years.

>> I've heard that many people do not like the python 2 to 3 debacle, and
>> that python is becoming worse from a governance perspective. I've heard
>> the woke mind virus has settled deep within the python project.
>
> The backward incompatibility did put people off. Up until ArcGIS 11.x
> Esri's ArcPy tools were based on Python 2.7 so my scripts needed to be
> updated. However 10.7 was the end of the line for the 32-bit Esri tools
> along with 2.7 Python so everything changed with 11.
>
> https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
>
> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?

I care about the language, because over the top language leads to nasty
behaviour and exploiting the CoC:s as weapons.

But clearly a lot of people "had it" with the woke movement. I read today
that some news ETF:s will be launched who will exclude woke companies from
their assets and investments. I think similar ideas are under way in IT,
so we'll see good, honest programmers who hate wokeness just avoid woke
projects, or start their own. The woke projects can then die a slow death.

On 02/01/2025 20:04, rbowman wrote:
> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?

Yes. Absolutely it does.

Civilised behaviour is a culture of tolerance. Woke is a culture of
vicious intolerance towards anyone who challenges a narrow definition of
a modern Puritanism.

Civilised behaviour doesn't get you fired. Civilised behaviour doesn't
get you blacklisted.

Woke is part of the reason Trump will be president. People don't like
being told what to think. This isn't Putin's Russia.

--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

On 02/01/2025 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>
>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>
> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
> design choice.
>
Odd, since MATE - a superset of GNOME - expects you to use a menu. Its
very XP like.

And since XP was what I was running when I switched entirely to Linux, I
didn't have to relearn very much at all..

--
“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
authorities are wrong.”

― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2025-01-02 12:20, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>
>>> On 2025-01-01 23:00, D wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-01-01 12:43, D wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024, rbowman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, 31 Dec 2024 05:11:09 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not disputing whether BMWs are better vehicles, whether to drive
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> for some other reason.  What I do notice is that many people who
>>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>> BMWs feel that the car confers some sort of superior class on the
>>>>>>>> driver, and they feel it is the God-given duty for us plebes who
>>>>>>>> drive
>>>>>>>> lesser cars to get out of their way - to the point of making
>>>>>>>> exasperated
>>>>>>>> hand gestures at those of us who don't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I was trucking I was amused by BMW drivers who tried to play
>>>>>>> chicken
>>>>>>> with a 65' long 18 wheeled vehicle outweighing them by about 75,000
>>>>>>> pounds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That reminds me... when I was in spain once, a big truck didn't look
>>>>>> out before changing lanes and almost pushed me off the road. He saw it
>>>>>> in time though and apologized. I had an elevated pulse for a while.
>>>>>
>>>>> Was that recently, or long ago?
>>>>
>>>> Probably 2 or 3 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>> Lorry drivers in Spain, long ago, were known as gentlemen of the road.
>>>>> Certainly not so in recent times. They are exploited, and it shows in
>>>>> their tempers. They drive around tired.
>>>>
>>>> Oh he definitely was very sorry about the incident, and as far as it is
>>>> possible for two humans to communicate wordlessly through windows, my
>>>> feeling was that he deeply sorry and apologetic about the incident, so no
>>>> shadow on that man.
>>>
>>> Well, anybody can make mistakes :-)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> They tend to change lane fast because otherwise a car comes and impedes
>>>>> it. This forces the incoming traffic on the left lane to brake and swear
>>>>> softly.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, exactly what happened... semi-hard break and soft swearing. ;)
>>>
>>>
>>> Once I overtook a lorry that had a wheel... dunno how to describe. It had
>>> burst, part of the rubber was lost, and the rest of the rubber was
>>> spinning loosely, still thankfully retained. I was amazed, did not know
>>> what to do. I had passengers. I just speed past the danger. It was very
>>> early in the morning.
>>>
>>> I still do not know what I should had done. Probably pull back and phone
>>> 112.
>>
>> I drive most often i south-eastern spain and I find spanish highways
>> excellent! Spain should designate some areas without speed limit. In fact,
>> there's a private highway that has very little traffic, since it cost 10
>> euros or so to enter the stretch of road, and it is so straight it could
>> easily accomodate no speed limit! =) In fact, once, when I was happily
>> driving around 165 in a little Fiat 500, a Mercedes overtook me. He must
>> have been driving around 240 or so.
>
> There some terrible highways around here. There is one, the RM-1 where the
> ground has shifted, so badly that if you pass doing 120Km/h your horns will
> make holes in the roof. Bumps on the road surface.
>
> Instead of repairing them, they limited the speed to 100 or less.
>
> <https://www.google.es/maps/@37.9363242,-0.9704533,11z?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D>
>
> You may notice that it is not connected to other highways on the north end.
> They are still arguing who is going to pay, for a decade or so.

It sounds as if the political process in spain is not the most efficient?

Personally I usually stick to A7 or AP7. Those are both quite nice. =)

On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> ... That was when cars had real bumpers and frames so the actual
>> damage dropped off rapidly.
>
> Ahh, the days of the 5mph bumper: DoT regulatiuons required that new
> cars must have bumpers that would allow a 5 mph hit without structural
> damage to the car. Carter years?
>
> Then came the new car designs with crumple zones, and that was the end
> of that.
>

Reminds me of old Saabs. Those had what you could call a bumper!

On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:

> On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
>>
>> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
>
> The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
> regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
> complain about "woke tyranny".
>

That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
plain conservative. That's a woke abomination in open source and is
exactly what leads to the culture wars and cancellations we have.

On 2025-01-02, -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> On 1/1/25 1:20 PM, Joel wrote:
>> Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025 11:44:29 -0500, -hh wrote:
>>>
>>>> [quote]
>>>> Unfortunately, the only way that this point actually becomes
>>>> "reasonable" is by finally admitting that many/most Linux fanboys are
>>>> chronic consummate cheapskates.
>>>> [/quote]
>>>
>>> You omit that many/most commercial software packages are
>>> EXTORTIONATE in that they capture users via proprietary
>>> formats and subscription accounts. The only difference
>>> between them and the gangsters of old are the machine
>>> guns.
>>>
>>> I can pay $100 for a 1/2" power drill and I can expect it
>>> to last 25-50 years or more. (I inherited a power drill
>>>from my grandfather that is almost 70 years old. The
>>> only problem is a loose connection in the power cable
>>> that can be easily fixed.)
>>>
>>> That same $100 won't even buy a 1 month subscription
>>> for a desktop software package.
>>>
>>> The situation is borderline criminality.
>>>
>>> Both software and information want to be free (as in
>>> "freedom" and not "beer"). We are seeing this happen.
>>> Commercial software on the desktop is an endangered species.
>>>
>>> I can understand the airline industry paying big bucks
>>> for flight reservation software, or the nuclear power industry
>>> paying big bucks for control software, but a desktop spreadsheet
>>> or word processor is trivial and should cost nothing.
>>>
>>> Everything done on the desktop has been standardized decades
>>> ago. There is no need for commercial software in this arena.
>>
>>
>> Clearly you're just ranting nonsense,
>
> Which is par for the course for Feeb.
>
> For example, good luck finding a 1/2" power drill for sale new today for
> just $100 which will last for even 10 years of use, let alone his
> "25-50" claim: the days of bulletproof all metal body Craftsman or
> Black & Decker power tools are long since gone.

Out of stock but not too much higher in price:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-5-5-Amp-Corded-1-2-in-Variable-Speed-Hole-Shooter-Magnum-Drill-Driver-0234-6/100180020

I invested in one of those (or as close to that model as I can
see from the page) in 1991 or 1992. A spare set of brushes has
yet to be needed. It's strong enough to cause substantial wrist
discomfort if held less tightly enough than some use cases
deserve. The side handle is needed in some cases.

Oh, I did have to replace the power cord once, but it was
relatively inexpensive. It uses an interesting 3-conductor
twist-lock connector.

--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 1/2/25 6:33 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/01/2025 21:33, rbowman wrote:
>>>> wiw, the company I worked for at the times didn't find excellence either
>>>> and is gone. Come to think of it every company I ever worked for directly
>>>> or on contract is gone. Maybe I'm the kiss of death?
>>>
>>> Companies exist in a phase of 'rising star' 'mature' 'cash cow' and 'death
>>> spiral'
>>>
>>> IBM for example died years ago - the company today is just the old
>>> business services division.
>>>
>>> No company I ever worked for is extant today in anything like its original
>>> form.
>>
>> I wonder if a new owner would be able to shake some life into z and p? As
>> it is, IBM seems to be trying to kill those lines hard with high prices.
>
>
> I've got a fair bit of IBM stock ... it's NOT "dead",
> indeed pays pretty good interest. The corp just found
> other ways to make a buck and is large enough to make
> it work.

Bit companies can do a lot of wrong and still survive.

> But its core biz is NOT exactly what it was in the 80s
> and previous.
>
> You still CAN buy an IBM mainframe - up to four linked
> Big Black Z Boxes with impressive specs. Even runs the
> IBM-branded RedHat if you want (many do). If you've
> got a busy global biz, a good way to go.
>
> https://www.ibm.com/z

This is the truth! I've worked with p but never with z. It was nice to
have everything integrated in the p environment. It worked pretty well,
although had some rough edges.

> Hmmm ... saw something about Plan-9 being ported
> to the Z-Boxes ... they were very proud.
>
> I think IBM still has a future, just not making PCs
> and typewriters. STILL doing good chip work however ...
> but mostly for internal consumption.

It will become just another consulting company, and perhaps, if they have
some self-respect, they might keep some of their basic research.

> On the neg ... IBMs 'AI', "Watson", was originally
> a triumph but seems to have fallen a bit behind the
> proverbial curve of late. It's still very 'biz
> oriented' and has a medical diagnostics branch that's
> quite good, but it's not as 'general' as Chat
> or OpenAI.

I wonder if this is because Watson is actually being sold to paying
customers? The novelty has work off, so no one writes about it any longer.
OpenAI are good at marketing. They will probably crash the second their
models do no longer improve.

On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> On 1/2/25 6:22 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Jan 2025, chrisv wrote:
>>
>>> D wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Your other two recent posts were deleted, unread.
>>>>
>>>> This sounds to me like you admit defeat. (snipped, unread)
>>>
>>> Trolling 101.  Claim victory in the midst of defeat.
>>>
>>> The reality is that I'm so much better that after making my point I
>>> can ignore what dipshits say, with the confidence that no decent
>>> person would side with the dipshit.
>>>
>>> Your 4:01 post was deleted, unread, as will every post that you make
>>> in this thread, from now on.
>>
>> Ahh... I won! It was a good fight chris, but you met someone better and
>> lost. =)
>
> Ah ... "The Wars" return ...... not unexpected alas ...
> seems a 'Human Thing", the quest for elevated 'status'
> forever and always. On This Episode of Game Of Thrones ...
>
> Fortunately it's not 'war' over Linux Stuff again (yet).

No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to
annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading that
group.

> Hey, I can't program a TCP stack from memory or know
> every detail of sockets at the ASM level (and no, I did
> not have an extensive ed in every 'philosophy')- guess
> that makes me totally inferior and useless. Always
> was a Jack Of All Trades, Master Of Few. Whatever,
> I ain't that proud, good for what I'm good for and
> that's good enough :-)
>

On 03/01/2025 11:32, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
>>
>> The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
>> regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
>> complain about "woke tyranny".
>>
>
> That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
> unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
> plain conservative. That's a woke abomination in open source and is
> exactly what leads to the culture wars and cancellations we have.

'woke' is Marxism rebranded. It uses all the old Marxist AgitProp
techniques which some of us are very familiar with.

It's not about manners, it's about political power, and the destruction
of societal norms and cultural history. Its about the creation of
dissent and hatred.

It is probably funded indirectly by the FSB. As an asymmetric war
technique to promote the destruction of freedom and democracy - Russia's
greatest threat.

A knew a communist very well at University. He explained how communists
were going to infiltrate every single organisation over his lifetime.
It's called the by a communist (Rudi Dutschke) who is now a member of
the EU, 'The long march through the institutions'. The aim was/is to
destroy existing society and replace it with a new communist one as the
first step towards a socialist Utopia.

I have watched it happen,.

Finally people have woken up.

And elected a complete arsehole whose one saving grace is that he is not
'woke'

--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

On 03/01/2025 11:45, D wrote:
> No I think it is just because someone pulled in comp.os.linux.advocacy.
> Seems a lot of trolls reside there. I looked into it, found it way to
> annoying, and stopped. But I got a reminder of why I stopped reading
> that group.

Yup. Ain't that the truth.

Linux is good all by itself. Doesn't need advocacy.

--
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
Mark Twain

On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>> https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
>>>
>>> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
>>
>> The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
>> regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
>> complain about "woke tyranny".
>>
>
> That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
> unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or just
> plain conservative.

These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing
someone because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?

There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; the
question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard
that won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to
being an abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).

-hh

On 03/01/2025 11:58, -hh wrote:
> On 1/3/25 6:32 AM, D wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 3 Jan 2025, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>>
>>> On 2025-01-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>>>> https://policies.python.org/python.org/code-of-conduct/
>>>>
>>>> What isn't 'woke' these days? The language is over the top but does the
>>>> end result really differ from civilized behavior in the workplace?
>>>
>>> The problem seems to be that some a**holes NEED to be smacked with
>>> regulations before they will live up to basic civility. And then they
>>> complain about "woke tyranny".
>>>
>>
>> That might be true. It is also true that some people are severely and
>> unjustly punished for being conservative christians, pro-Trump, or
>> just plain conservative.
>
> These actions you're defending as 'unjust' were things like killing
> someone because they happened to be gay/black/different, right?
>

No.
It means losing your career and livelihood because you said that women
don't have a penis.
Or because you said that Mohammed wasn't a very nice person, after all.
Or losing an eye because of that.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse
wokery in every performance and every film play or radio drama that you
were involved in.
Or losing your career and livelihood because you failed to endorse 'man
made climate change'.

> There's extreme cases of assholitry that have no place in Society; the
> question is how to establish a fair, uniform and transparent standard
> that won't be abused by those who's personal biases make them prone to
> being an abuser (see religious leaders & pedophilia for YA example).
>
Abolish woke.

Make it perfectly legal to think anything and say anything that is not a
direct incitement to public violence.

Battle racism by repealing all laws that diifferentiate between ethnic
groups

Let society, not the Law, judge whether a man in a summer frock is
really a woman or just a sick saddo.

--
"It is an established fact to 97% confidence limits that left wing
conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"

Pancho wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On 1/2/25 20:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>
>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>
>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
>> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
>> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
>> design choice.
>
> I agree. I started using Gnome in 2014, it changed the way I use MS
> Windows. Menus tend to be arbitrary, very difficult to find stuff. A
> short task bar of frequently used apps and text search for other stuff
> is much better.

I like Fluxbox; you can extend it's built-in menus with easy to grok
text files. And you can tear off a sub-menu, leaving it floating on the
desktop for easy access.

But for running apps I use the command line or create some hotkeys
using xbindkeys and the fluxbox keys file.

Also helpful are cdargs and GNU readline.

THere are other tools, such as dmenu, that I don't use.

https://www.sglavoie.com/posts/2019/11/10/using-dmenu-to-optimize-common-tasks/

dmenu is one of those tools that look a little unimpressive at first but
can accomplish so much! It’s a program that you can use to receive any
output redirected from other programs (through pipes in the terminal, the
symbol |) and treat that output so that it can pop up within a simple menu
to make it available for execution. If you want to know more about other
fantastic tools from suckless.org, I went over some of them before, such as
the st terminal and slock, a dead simple screen locker.

But obviously many users will simply use the desktop-provided options.

--
Say my love is easy had,
Say I'm bitten raw with pride,
Say I am too often sad --
Still behold me at your side.
Say I'm neither brave nor young,
Say I woo and coddle care,
Say the devil touched my tongue --
Still you have my heart to wear.
But say my verses do not scan,
And I get me another man!
-- Dorothy Parker, "Fighting Words"

Carlos E.R. wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:

> On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>
>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>
>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
>> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
>> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
>> design choice.
>
> What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?

As time goes on, *some* will learn.

--
There be sober men a'plenty, and drunkards barely twenty; there are men
of over ninety who have never yet kissed a girl. But give me the rambling
rover, from Orkney down to Dover, we will roam the whole world over, and
together we'll face the world. -- Andy Stewart, "After the Hush"

186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

> (snipped, unread)

On 1/3/25 10:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-01-02 21:06, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>> On 2025-01-02 14:42, rbowman wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and
>>>> offers a
>>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>>
>>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>
>> GNOME was designed with the belief that anyone looking for an
>> application will press the Windows key and then type the name of what
>> they're looking for rather than select it from a menu. That's how I do
>> it whether I use Windows, GNOME or KDE so I would agree with their
>> design choice.
>>
>
> What if you are new and don't know the name of the applications?
>
>

The text search matches keywords associated with the application, not
just a perfect match on the application name.

In Gnome, an application installation can include a Gnome .desktop file
under /usr/share/applications/.

I think MS Windows gives a similar fuzzy match, but I'm not sure how
they do it.

On 2025-01-03 12:16, D wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025, rbowman wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 2 Jan 2025 08:36:41 -0500, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> I find GNOME rather clunky whereas KDE, at least on Fedora and Nobara,
>>> is perfect out of the box. I imagine that a lot of people who try out
>>> Linux and face GNOME are going to wonder how to do the basics, and they
>>> will likely find that the way extensions work is rather clunky,
>>> especially during upgrades. Meanwhile, KDE is very familiar and offers a
>>> ton of features they could only dream of in Windows like the desktop
>>> effects, theming options and widgets. Unlike Cinnamon too, the widgets
>>> in KDE actually work as they should.
>>
>> The Ubuntu box has GNOME. I live with it but I'm not a fan. I'd rather
>> have a menu structure rather than the 'Show Applications' button that
>> brings up three or four screens of unsorted stuff.
>>
>
> I've been running XFCE for at least a decade and I for me it is a nice
> sweet spot of a more comprehensive desktop environment that is also
> fairly light on resources.
>
> I do not use the menu system, but only a keyboard launcher instead.

I switched to XFCE when Gnome went into version 3. Not sure it is 3, but
when they changed the paradigm and killed the menu.

--
Cheers, Carlos.