On 2024-05-25, Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> wrote:
> Le 25-05-2024, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> a écrit :
>>
>> Results for desktop/laptop:
>> OS Visits % Total
>> ----------------------------------
>> Linux 42301343 5.4%
>>
>> Last time I used that source - 4 years ago - it had Linux at 1.6%.
>> [SNIP]
>> From 10-15 years ago, big Windows drop, big Mac gain, Linux up
>> significantly depending on source.
>
> From what I understood, I didn't checked but it seems possible from what
> I saw, Linux is not significantly up everywhere in the same way. It
> looks that Linux is heavily used in India (again, I didn't checked but
> 10% looks possible to me). And it increase significantly the market
> share in the world. Linux is improving everywhere, but it's mostly in
> India that the improvement is the strongest and more visible.

It wasn't that long ago that Macs were below 10%.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to
>>> develop for Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available
>>> to alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>
>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring out
>> WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.
>
> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
> reason to worry.

And yet Microsoft has put Linux in their OS to keep developers from
abandoning Windows.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
> On 2024-05-25 10:01 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:42:34 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>>>>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>>>>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>>>
>>>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring
>>>> out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.
>>>
>>> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
>>> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
>>> reason to worry.
>>
>> Please define professional software for developers. I want to see what I'm
>> missing.
>
> Software that is fully supported by a company resulting in a product
> that doesn't crash and is used to produce high quality content. Products
> like Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Cinema 4D, Houdini, Lightroom, etc..

You're talking about multi-media applications, not development tools.

--
[Self-centered, Woke] "pride is a life of self-destructive fakery, an
entrapment to a false and self-created matrix of twisted unreality."
"It was pride that changed angels into devils..." — St. Augustine

On 5/26/2024 3:29 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 25 May 2024 23:37:53 -0400, DFS wrote:
>
>> On 5/25/2024 9:11 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 15:46:15 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>>>>
>>>> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?
>>>
>>> It’s only about 25% of the total computing market.
>>
>> What is this 'total computing market' comprised of?
>> Who defined it?
>> Who measures it?
>> How is it measured?
>
> People who know about more than Microsoft Windows. I.e. more than you do.

So no answers.

Why use a made-up term you haven't first made up a definition for?

> Just consider the difference between workstations and desktops, and
> realize that Linux is the king of the workstation market, just for
> example.

A 'workstation' is just a powerful desktop computer, and Windows is king
of the desktop.

Who even sells a Linux-based 'workstation'? I don't recall ever seeing one.

On 5/26/2024 12:23 AM, Tyrone wrote:
> On May 25, 2024 at 3:46:15 PM EDT, "DFS" <nospam@dfs.com> wrote:
>
>> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>>> On May 23, 2024 at 7:58:35 AM EDT, "Andrzej Matuch" <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is no benefit to a corporation looking to have a monopoly to use
>>>> UNIX. Microsoft will hold onto the Windows core for as long as they
>>>> can, and if they replace it, they will likely do so with a rewritten
>>>> Windows core.
>>>
>>> Microsoft has no monopoly. On anything.
>>
>> True. And they never did.
>>
>>
>>> It is to their benefit to retire Windows.
>>
>> heh!
>>
>> Might as well toss your application for membership to the MS Board of
>> Directors in the trash.
>>
>>
>>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>>
>> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?
>>
>> (I can't find it any longer, but I recall seeing somewhere online that
>> Windows reached 97.5% desktop market share)
>>
>>
>>
>>> Monopolies don't go from 95% of the market to 70%.
>>
>> I thought you were slinging bullshit, but 2 sites I trust confirm approx
>> those numbers.
>
> I never sling bullshit. I use statcounter at <https://gs.statcounter.com>
>
> LOTS of interesting stats there. Breakdowns by
> platform/country/global/OS/Browser/vendor/search engine/region and many more.
>
> They track websites all over the world. Quote from "About"
>
> "Data Sample
>
> Stats are based on aggregate data collected by Statcounter on a sample
> exceeding 5 billion pageviews per month collected from across the Statcounter
> network of more than 1.5 million websites. Stats are updated and made
> available every day, however are subject to quality assurance testing and
> revision for 45 days from publication."
>
> Highly recommended.

Yeah, I quoted it here off and on since 2011. And a few months ago,
where it showed in Brazil:

Windows 90%
OSX 4%
Linux 3%
Unknown 3%

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/brazil

This is why I'm very suspicious of stats showing Mac at 20%, no matter
the country. That's what recent data shows for the US, but I have a
hard time believing Macs are 1 in 5 desktops/laptops in the US.

On 2024-05-26 9:26 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-26, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 19:10:33 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> You'll first have to buy a new Copilot+ PC, then turn on the Recall
>>> feature (assuming of course that MS would not be so arrogant as to force
>>> such a risky thing on users) and let it capture everything you do.
>>
>> Force? Certainly not. Of course there will be the stream of
>> 'recommendations'.
>
> I just watched something from the CEO of Microsoft saying that only the user
> of the computer will be able to use "recall." And he wouldn't lie, would he?
> Of course not!

If it can indeed be disabled (or never enabled), then perhaps Recall
will not be that big of a deal. However, if the functionality is even in
the operating system, there is no reason to believe that they wouldn't
use it in secret to spy on users. Microsoft, Google, Facebook and Apple
have all been caught spying on the user over the years.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-26 9:34 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to
>>>> develop for Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available
>>>> to alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>>
>>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring out
>>> WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.
>>
>> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
>> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
>> reason to worry.
>
> And yet Microsoft has put Linux in their OS to keep developers from
> abandoning Windows.

I have no reason to believe that their intention was to "keep developers
from abandoning Windows."

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On 2024-05-26 9:36 a.m., RonB wrote:
> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-25 10:01 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:42:34 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>>>>>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>>>>>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to bring
>>>>> out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows.
>>>>
>>>> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
>>>> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
>>>> reason to worry.
>>>
>>> Please define professional software for developers. I want to see what I'm
>>> missing.
>>
>> Software that is fully supported by a company resulting in a product
>> that doesn't crash and is used to produce high quality content. Products
>> like Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Cinema 4D, Houdini, Lightroom, etc..
>
> You're talking about multi-media applications, not development tools.

I said "professional software," it's quoted above. I said nothing of
development tools.

--
Andrzej (Andre) Matuch
TG: @AndrzejMatuch
Catholic, paleoconservative, Christ is king.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:20:42 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

>> Please define professional software for developers. I want to see what
>> I'm missing.
>
> Software that is fully supported by a company resulting in a product
> that doesn't crash and is used to produce high quality content. Products
> like Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Cinema 4D, Houdini, Lightroom,
> etc..

We seem to have a different opinion of software for developers. Developers
WRITE Final Cut Pro etc; users USE it.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:16:55 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

>>>>>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to
>>>>>> bring out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning
>>>>>> Windows.
>>>>>
>>>>> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
>>>>> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has
>>>>> any reason to worry.
>>>>
>>>> Please define professional software for developers. I want to see
>>>> what I'm missing.
>>>
>>> Software that is fully supported by a company resulting in a product
>>> that doesn't crash and is used to produce high quality content.
>>> Products like Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Cinema 4D, Houdini,
>>> Lightroom, etc..
>>
>> You're talking about multi-media applications, not development tools.
>
> I said "professional software," it's quoted above. I said nothing of
> development tools.

Let's do a little review.

"It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning Windows."

"The absolute desert that is professional software on Linux does not
suggest that Microsoft has any reason to worry."

If you want to move the goalposts, good for you.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:16:12 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-26 9:34 a.m., RonB wrote:
>> On 2024-05-26, Andrzej Matuch <andrzej@matu.ch> wrote:
>>> On 2024-05-25 8:55 p.m., Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 07:13:05 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Considering this, third-parties should stop trying to develop for
>>>>> Windows and MacOS and try to make their offerings available to
>>>>> alternative systems like Linux instead.
>>>>
>>>> That’s already been happening. Why do you think Microsoft had to
>>>> bring out WSL? It was to stem the tide of developers abandoning
>>>> Windows.
>>>
>>> In favour of Linux? Give me a break. The absolute desert that is
>>> professional software on Linux does not suggest that Microsoft has any
>>> reason to worry.
>>
>> And yet Microsoft has put Linux in their OS to keep developers from
>> abandoning Windows.
>
> I have no reason to believe that their intention was to "keep developers
> from abandoning Windows."

What, exactly, do you think it was for?

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/faq

"This is primarily a tool for developers, especially web developers, those
working on open source projects, or deploying to Linux server
environments. "

I guess Microsoft is confused,. Now why would people deploy to Linux
servers? Because an AWS Linux instance is a hell of a lot cheaper than a
Windows instance.

https://parquantix.com/linux-windows-aws-cost-comparison/

As has been pointed out many, many times desktop Linux for the casual user
is a not a large segment. However the 'cloud' runs on Linux, and that is
where the money is.

On 26 May 2024 09:05:20 GMT, Stéphane CARPENTIER wrote:

> Twenty years ago, yes, when you bought anything, you should be very
> careful if you wanted to use it on Linux. Things have improved by now.
> If Microsoft want to switch on a Linux Kernel, the manufacturers will
> develop drivers for Linux, so what?

If the money is there they will get busy. An example from the dark ages is
soft modems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softmodem

It didn't take long for 'linmodems' to appear to take advantage of the
hardware. Some of the manufacturers realized a sale is a sale and went to
the minimal effort of developing Linux drivers.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:21:26 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:

> On 2024-05-25 10:29 p.m., rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 21:22:01 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>>
>>> In the late 90s, there was no doubt that there was no meaningful
>>> competition for Internet Explorer. It's not a coincidence that
>>> Netscape open-sourced their engine before the millennium was up.
>>
>> Very late 90s. IE 5 was the first to capture market share. iirc it was
>> a star witness in United States v. Microsoft Corporation.
>>
>> It had a couple of years of grace before it became primarily a tool for
>> installing Firefox.
>
> It became a tool to install Firefox in the early 2000s, not 90s.

Follow the bouncing ball. IE5 was introduced in 1999, IE 6 in 2001, and IE
7 in 2006 so IE5/IE6 had 4 years before an alternative waqs available.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:26:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I just watched something from the CEO of Microsoft saying that only the
> user of the computer will be able to use "recall." And he wouldn't lie,
> would he?
> Of course not!

The user -- and all the three letter agencies that will use the convenient
backdoor that Microsoft will provide to them upon presentation of a FISA
warrant.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 09:06:52 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

> I remember those goddam Pinewood Derbies. My rough-hewn efforts could
> not stand up to the sleek, highly polished, colorfully-painted, and
> varnished cars with bolts in them for weight, obviously made mostly by
> Dad. :-(

We built something in the eighth grade shop class that was more like a
Soap Box Tank. The shop teacher was content that nobody was cutting
appendages off. Never did the miniatures. The goal was to haul it up the
hill behind the school that was used for sleighs and toboggans and launch
it. Don't think that ever happened.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:12:38 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:

> I had a CD player and a turntable on the same system and a few titles
> where I owned both the records and CDs and (to my ears) the records (at
> least some of them) sounded better. Admittedly, a very limited test as I
> didn't have that many record/cd duplicates.

I never had an overlap. I left my records with a friend in Lexington MA
when I headed west in '88. Being mobile I did cassettes.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 10:12:51 -0400, DFS <nospam@dfs.com> wrote in
<66534360$0$6557$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On 5/26/2024 3:29 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 23:37:53 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/25/2024 9:11 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 25 May 2024 15:46:15 -0400, DFS wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 5/23/2024 9:38 AM, Tyrone wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Windows usage is shrinking, and has been for the last 14 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Where else does it go from nearly 100%?
>>>>
>>>> It’s only about 25% of the total computing market.
>>>
>>> What is this 'total computing market' comprised of?
>>> Who defined it?
>>> Who measures it?
>>> How is it measured?
>>
>> People who know about more than Microsoft Windows. I.e. more than you do.
>
> So no answers.
>
> Why use a made-up term you haven't first made up a definition for?
>
>
>
>> Just consider the difference between workstations and desktops, and
>> realize that Linux is the king of the workstation market, just for
>> example.
>
> A 'workstation' is just a powerful desktop computer, and Windows is king
> of the desktop.
>
> Who even sells a Linux-based 'workstation'? I don't recall ever seeing one.

Just because it's outside of your experience doesn't mean it doesn't
exist.

Example:

https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-major

--
-v

You (DistroMan) replied ( to DFS ):
> > Who sells a Linux-based 'workstation' ?
>
> system76.com/desktops/thelio-major

So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound,
nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:

Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG

On 26 May 2024 17:05:39 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
<lbh8f2FckbdU1@mid.individual.net>:

> On Sun, 26 May 2024 07:20:42 -0400, Andrzej Matuch wrote:
>
>>> Please define professional software for developers. I want to see what
>>> I'm missing.
>>
>> Software that is fully supported by a company resulting in a product
>> that doesn't crash and is used to produce high quality content. Products
>> like Final Cut Pro, DaVinci Resolve, Cinema 4D, Houdini, Lightroom,
>> etc..
>
> We seem to have a different opinion of software for developers. Developers
> WRITE Final Cut Pro etc; users USE it.

Also, DaVinci Resolve has a Linux port, and it is used to produce movies.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve/

Black Magic also makes many different controller boards that plug into
the Linux workstation.

(It escapes me why he would mention DaVinci Resolve, unless he didn't
know Linux was supported.)

--
-v

On Sun, 26 May 2024 12:20:03 -0700 (Seattle), "Relf"
<Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote in <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.26--0.20pm.Seattle.2024>:

> You (DistroMan) replied ( to DFS ):
>> > Who sells a Linux-based 'workstation' ?
>>
>> system76.com/desktops/thelio-major
>
> So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound,
> nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:
>
> Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG

?

That doesn't make any sense, Jeff.

I have a gaming mouse with G9-G20 buttons on the side.

What does that have to do with surround sound or the price
of tea in China?

Lay off the 'shrooms, dude.

--
-v

You (DistroMan) replied ( to me ):
> > So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound,
> > nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:
> > Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG
>
> I have a gaming mouse with G9-G20 buttons on the side.
> What does that have to do with surround sound

You'll never see the drivers, DistroMan, so you'll never know.

On Sun, 26 May 2024 13:01:18 -0700 (Seattle), "Relf"
<Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> wrote in <Jeff-Relf.Me@May.26--1.01pm.Seattle.2024>:

> You (DistroMan) replied ( to me ):
>> > So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound,
>> > nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:
>> > Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG
>>
>> I have a gaming mouse with G9-G20 buttons on the side.
>> What does that have to do with surround sound
>
> You'll never see the drivers, DistroMan, so you'll never know.

_What_ drivers? It's a USB device, and the X Window System maps
the mouse keypresses to events that can be assigned.

IAW, I can bind them to actions in my games, or anywhere else.
It is no different than Windoze.

--
-v

chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>>For my 14th birthday, I got a CDDA player by Pioneer, fresh 1991 model
>>at the time, with a 20 bit DAC. I thought it was amazing - until I
>>replaced it with a DVD-Audio/SACD player in 2004. And before long, I
>>got a DVD-Audio grade sound card for my computer, too. Primitive DAC
>>chips were *trash*, and *that* is where the myth of vinyl sounding
>>better came from.
>
>The early Japanese DAC's were trash, but the Phillips DAC's were
>always good.

Intriguing.

> The bigger problem was bad mastering. Crack-smoking
>incompetents didn't know that the *fsck* they were doing, initially.
>I would swear that some early CD's were made with the RIAA
>equalization for LP's applied, reducing the bass to nothingness and
>making the highs shill to the point of unlistenable.
>
>I mean, if you're listening to a power trio, like Rush, and you can't
>hardly hear the bass, something went *very* wrong. How the artists
>allowed their music to be released, in such conditions, is something
>of a mystery, to me.

I had purchased some older Rush on CD, never thought it was bad, but
hearing remasters later of course was better.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

You (DistroMan) replied ( to me ):
> > > > So you'll never experience stereo movies/songs Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound,
> > > > nor will you ever enjoy this 39 button gShift mouse:
> > > > Jeff-Relf.Me/MouseKeyboardLayout.PNG
> >
> > You'll never see the drivers, DistroMan, so you'll never know.
>
> _What_ drivers? It's a USB device, and the X Window System maps
> the mouse keypresses to events that can be assigned.
>
> IAW, I can bind them to actions in my games, or anywhere else.
> It is no different than Windoze.

Do you know what a "gShift" is ?

Are you enjoying stereo movies/songs/games Up_Mixed to Surround_Sound ?

Again: You'll never see the drivers, DistroMan.

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

>> 8.x was better than 7, just put Classic Shell's start menu on and boom.
>> Vista was uniquely a beta version of the NT series.
>
>You've got to watch the 'x' Windows 8 dot nothing sucked. 8.1 put the
>start menu back where it belonged.

It put the *button* back, but you still needed Classic Shell for the
menu to not be a full screen, phone imitating, crazy design.

> It might have been a clue when they
>tried to mimic the failing Windows Phone interface.
>
>Windows Server 2012 also had the Metro stuff which was particularly stupid
>for a server. It was followed by 2012 R2.

I dunno what got in their minds, yeah. Just so weird.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.