The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces
Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of app
stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).

Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency;
however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.
*Apple Will Make Alternative App Marketplaces and Browser Engines Available on the iPad in the EU Starting Monday*
<https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-will-make-alternative-app-marketplaces-and-browser-engines-available-in-the-eu-starting-monday/>
"You may recall that in April, the European Commission has added
iPadOS to the products and services subject to the Digital Markets
Act (DMA). Before then, the DMA only applied to the iPhone, meaning
that, if you live in the EU, changes to iOS, like browser default
choices and alternative app marketplaces, are currently only
available on your iPhone. That changes on Monday"
*Update on iPadOS 18 apps distributed in the European Union*
<https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=4sn7e783>>
"Starting September 16:
Users in the EU can download iPadOS apps on the App Store
and through alternative distribution...
Alternative browser engines can be used in iPadOS apps."

As of Brexit, the UK is not formally in the EU - but that's a political
boundary (where the border-free Schengen Area is another such boundary).

My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?

Do they?

On Fri 13/09/2024 17:35, Andrew wrote:
> The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces
> Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of app
> stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).
>
> Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency;
> however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.
> *Apple Will Make Alternative App Marketplaces and Browser Engines Available on the iPad in the EU Starting Monday*
> <https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-will-make-alternative-app-marketplaces-and-browser-engines-available-in-the-eu-starting-monday/>
> "You may recall that in April, the European Commission has added
> iPadOS to the products and services subject to the Digital Markets
> Act (DMA). Before then, the DMA only applied to the iPhone, meaning
> that, if you live in the EU, changes to iOS, like browser default
> choices and alternative app marketplaces, are currently only
> available on your iPhone. That changes on Monday"
> *Update on iPadOS 18 apps distributed in the European Union*
> <https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=4sn7e783>>
> "Starting September 16:
> Users in the EU can download iPadOS apps on the App Store
> and through alternative distribution...
> Alternative browser engines can be used in iPadOS apps."
>
> As of Brexit, the UK is not formally in the EU - but that's a political
> boundary (where the border-free Schengen Area is another such boundary).
>
> My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
> is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?
>
> Do they?

Well it has happened with the micro USB that is now the power connector
for most phones outside Apple, so.......

Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Fri 13/09/2024 17:35, Andrew wrote:
>> The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces
>> Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of app
>> stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).
>>
>> Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency;
>> however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.
>> *Apple Will Make Alternative App Marketplaces and Browser Engines
>> Available on the iPad in the EU Starting Monday*
>> <https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-will-make-alternative-app-marketplaces-and-browser-engines-available-in-the-eu-starting-monday/>
>> "You may recall that in April, the European Commission has added
>> iPadOS to the products and services subject to the Digital Markets
>> Act (DMA). Before then, the DMA only applied to the iPhone, meaning
>> that, if you live in the EU, changes to iOS, like browser default
>> choices and alternative app marketplaces, are currently only
>> available on your iPhone. That changes on Monday"
>> *Update on iPadOS 18 apps distributed in the European Union*
>> <https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=4sn7e783>>
>> "Starting September 16:
>> Users in the EU can download iPadOS apps on the App Store
>> and through alternative distribution...
>> Alternative browser engines can be used in iPadOS apps."
>>
>> As of Brexit, the UK is not formally in the EU - but that's a political
>> boundary (where the border-free Schengen Area is another such boundary).
>>
>> My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
>> is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?
>>
>> Do they?
>
> Well it has happened with the micro USB that is now the power connector
> for most phones outside Apple, so.......
>
>

The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> Wrote in message:
><snip>
> My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
> is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?
>
> Do they?
>
No.

--
Remove numerics from my email address.

On 2024-09-13 09:35, Andrew wrote:
> The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces
> Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of app
> stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).
>
> Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency;
> however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.
The words of a drama queen.

On 13/09/2024 18:22, Tweed wrote:
> Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>> Well it has happened with the micro USB that is now the power connector
>> for most phones outside Apple, so.......
>>
>>
>
> The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.
>
As do most (all ?) Androids made this decade ?

On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 15:59:46 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:

>> The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.
>>
> As do most (all ?) Androids made this decade ?

As so most portable devices that need to be recharged away from home.
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-Charging-Tri-Outputs-Compatible/dp/B091BSG9GS/

Such as bluetooth speakerphones which are used with mobile devices.
https://www.amazon.com/1mii-Bluetooth-Speakerphone-Portable-Assistant/dp/B0BN5TJ2LC/

Basically all non-Apple bluetooth headphones can be charged with USB-C.
https://www.amazon.com/BERIBES-Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Lightweight/dp/B09LYF2ST7/

Even wired headphones are connected to mobile devices using USB-C.
https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-USB-C-Hi-Fi-Headphones-K97456WW/dp/B08GPKHHPV/

You have to wonder why every company but Apple opted for USB-C when it's
only Apple who has to be legally obligated to give its users that courtesy.

Even then, Apple is only legally obligated to be nice to its EU customers.

On 2024-09-14 11:13, Isaac Montara wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 15:59:46 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:
>
>>> The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.
>>>
>> As do most (all ?) Androids made this decade ?
>
> As so most portable devices that need to be recharged away from home.
> https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-Charging-Tri-Outputs-Compatible/dp/B091BSG9GS/
>
> Such as bluetooth speakerphones which are used with mobile devices.
> https://www.amazon.com/1mii-Bluetooth-Speakerphone-Portable-Assistant/dp/B0BN5TJ2LC/
>
> Basically all non-Apple bluetooth headphones can be charged with USB-C.
> https://www.amazon.com/BERIBES-Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Lightweight/dp/B09LYF2ST7/
>
> Even wired headphones are connected to mobile devices using USB-C.
> https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-USB-C-Hi-Fi-Headphones-K97456WW/dp/B08GPKHHPV/
>
> You have to wonder why every company but Apple opted for USB-C when it's
> only Apple who has to be legally obligated to give its users that courtesy.
>
> Even then, Apple is only legally obligated to be nice to its EU customers.

The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.

Apple, in its own good time, would have brought USB-C to iPhone, etc.
Indeed, the newest iPhone would likely have been the launch USB-C
iPhone. Instead the EU forced Apple to go a year early.

All this "decision" does is create early e-waste of lightning connectors
and some wall-warts.

Government over regulating. EU!

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2024-09-14 11:13, Isaac Montara wrote:
>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 15:59:46 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:
>>
>>>> The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.
>>>>
>>> As do most (all ?) Androids made this decade ?
>>
>> As so most portable devices that need to be recharged away from home.
>> https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-Charging-Tri-Outputs-Compatible/dp/B091BSG9GS/
>>
>> Such as bluetooth speakerphones which are used with mobile devices.
>> https://www.amazon.com/1mii-Bluetooth-Speakerphone-Portable-Assistant/dp/B0BN5TJ2LC/
>>
>> Basically all non-Apple bluetooth headphones can be charged with USB-C.
>> https://www.amazon.com/BERIBES-Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Lightweight/dp/B09LYF2ST7/
>>
>> Even wired headphones are connected to mobile devices using USB-C.
>> https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-USB-C-Hi-Fi-Headphones-K97456WW/dp/B08GPKHHPV/
>>
>> You have to wonder why every company but Apple opted for USB-C when it's
>> only Apple who has to be legally obligated to give its users that
>> courtesy.
>>
>> Even then, Apple is only legally obligated to be nice to its EU
>> customers.
>
> The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
>
> Apple, in its own good time, would have brought USB-C to iPhone, etc.
> Indeed, the newest iPhone would likely have been the launch USB-C
> iPhone.  Instead the EU forced Apple to go a year early.
>
> All this "decision" does is create early e-waste of lightning connectors
> and some wall-warts.
>
> Government over regulating.  EU!

BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all the other
manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it was still
voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank [my caps to
highlight the overwhelming majority]:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200128IPR71205/parliament-wants-binding-rules-on-common-chargers-to-be-tabled-by-summer

"The EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT calls on the Commission to put forward
beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.

There is an “urgent need for EU regulatory action” to reduce electronic
waste and empower consumers to make sustainable choices, MEPS SAY IN A
RESOLUTION APPROVED BY 582 VOTES TO 40, WITH 37 ABSTENTIONS, calling for
the mandatory introduction of common chargers for all mobile devices.

[...]

For more than 10 years, MEPs have been demanding a common charger for
mobile phones, tablets, e-book readers and other portable devices"

Yet, despite having over a decade to do so, Apple still hadn't complied.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:
>> On 2024-09-14 11:13, Isaac Montara wrote:
>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2024 15:59:46 +0100, Mark Carver wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.
>>>>>
>>>> As do most (all ?) Androids made this decade ?
>>>
>>> As so most portable devices that need to be recharged away from home.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger-Charging-Tri-Outputs-Compatible/dp/B091BSG9GS/
>>>
>>> Such as bluetooth speakerphones which are used with mobile devices.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/1mii-Bluetooth-Speakerphone-Portable-Assistant/dp/B0BN5TJ2LC/
>>>
>>> Basically all non-Apple bluetooth headphones can be charged with USB-C.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/BERIBES-Bluetooth-Headphones-Microphone-Lightweight/dp/B09LYF2ST7/
>>>
>>> Even wired headphones are connected to mobile devices using USB-C.
>>> https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-USB-C-Hi-Fi-Headphones-K97456WW/dp/B08GPKHHPV/
>>>
>>> You have to wonder why every company but Apple opted for USB-C when it's
>>> only Apple who has to be legally obligated to give its users that
>>> courtesy.
>>>
>>> Even then, Apple is only legally obligated to be nice to its EU
>>> customers.
>>
>> The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
>>
>> Apple, in its own good time, would have brought USB-C to iPhone, etc.
>> Indeed, the newest iPhone would likely have been the launch USB-C
>> iPhone.  Instead the EU forced Apple to go a year early.
>>
>> All this "decision" does is create early e-waste of lightning connectors
>> and some wall-warts.
>>
>> Government over regulating.  EU!
>
> BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
> propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all the other
> manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it was still
> voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank [my caps to
> highlight the overwhelming majority]:
>
> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200128IPR71205/parliament-wants-binding-rules-on-common-chargers-to-be-tabled-by-summer
>
> "The EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT calls on the Commission to put forward
> beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.
>
> There is an “urgent need for EU regulatory action” to reduce electronic
> waste and empower consumers to make sustainable choices, MEPS SAY IN A
> RESOLUTION APPROVED BY 582 VOTES TO 40, WITH 37 ABSTENTIONS, calling for
> the mandatory introduction of common chargers for all mobile devices.
>
> [...]
>
> For more than 10 years, MEPs have been demanding a common charger for
> mobile phones, tablets, e-book readers and other portable devices"
>
> Yet, despite having over a decade to do so, Apple still hadn't complied.
>

Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C. I’m typing this on a
USB-C iPad. The new iPhone 16 is also so equipped, as are I believe their
new AirPod chargers. MacBooks have been USB-C powered for years - probably
one of the earliest laptops to adopt the standard.

On 2024-09-14 17:51, Tweed wrote:
>
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
>> propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all the other
>> manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it was still
>> voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank [my caps to
>> highlight the overwhelming majority]:
>>
>> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200128IPR71205/parliament-wants-binding-rules-on-common-chargers-to-be-tabled-by-summer
>>
>> "The EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT calls on the Commission to put forward
>> beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.
>>
>> There is an “urgent need for EU regulatory action” to reduce electronic
>> waste and empower consumers to make sustainable choices, MEPS SAY IN A
>> RESOLUTION APPROVED BY 582 VOTES TO 40, WITH 37 ABSTENTIONS, calling for
>> the mandatory introduction of common chargers for all mobile devices.
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> For more than 10 years, MEPs have been demanding a common charger for
>> mobile phones, tablets, e-book readers and other portable devices"
>>
>> Yet, despite having over a decade to do so, Apple still hadn't complied.
>
> Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C. I’m typing this on a
> USB-C iPad. The new iPhone 16 is also so equipped, as are I believe their
> new AirPod chargers. MacBooks have been USB-C powered for years - probably
> one of the earliest laptops to adopt the standard.

As now they *MUST*, but Alan Browne's false claim implied that Apple
were already complying at the time that the legislation made compliance
compulsory, but in fact they were not, which is exactly WHY the
legislation made compliance compulsory!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-09-14 17:51, Tweed wrote:
>>
>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
>>> propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all the other
>>> manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it was still
>>> voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank [my caps to
>>> highlight the overwhelming majority]:
>>>
>>> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200128IPR71205/parliament-wants-binding-rules-on-common-chargers-to-be-tabled-by-summer
>>>
>>> "The EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT calls on the Commission to put forward
>>> beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.
>>>
>>> There is an “urgent need for EU regulatory action” to reduce electronic
>>> waste and empower consumers to make sustainable choices, MEPS SAY IN A
>>> RESOLUTION APPROVED BY 582 VOTES TO 40, WITH 37 ABSTENTIONS, calling for
>>> the mandatory introduction of common chargers for all mobile devices.
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> For more than 10 years, MEPs have been demanding a common charger for
>>> mobile phones, tablets, e-book readers and other portable devices"
>>>
>>> Yet, despite having over a decade to do so, Apple still hadn't complied.
>>
>> Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C. I’m typing this on a
>> USB-C iPad. The new iPhone 16 is also so equipped, as are I believe their
>> new AirPod chargers. MacBooks have been USB-C powered for years - probably
>> one of the earliest laptops to adopt the standard.
>
> As now they *MUST*, but Alan Browne's false claim implied that Apple
> were already complying at the time that the legislation made compliance
> compulsory, but in fact they were not, which is exactly WHY the
> legislation made compliance compulsory!
>

28th December 2024 is the deadline for compliance - so I’m guessing that’s
why there is expected to be an iPad announcement in October. Some of the
older models still on sale will need replacing.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2024-09-14 17:51, Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> BOLLOCKS! The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
>>>> propaganda & EU-bashing. The simple truth is that nearly all the other
>>>> manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it was still
>>>> voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank [my caps to
>>>> highlight the overwhelming majority]:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200128IPR71205/parliament-wants-binding-rules-on-common-chargers-to-be-tabled-by-summer
>>>>
>>>> "The EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT calls on the Commission to put forward
>>>> beefed-up rules on common chargers by July 2020 at the latest.
>>>>
>>>> There is an “urgent need for EU regulatory action” to reduce electronic
>>>> waste and empower consumers to make sustainable choices, MEPS SAY IN A
>>>> RESOLUTION APPROVED BY 582 VOTES TO 40, WITH 37 ABSTENTIONS, calling for
>>>> the mandatory introduction of common chargers for all mobile devices.
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> For more than 10 years, MEPs have been demanding a common charger for
>>>> mobile phones, tablets, e-book readers and other portable devices"
>>>>
>>>> Yet, despite having over a decade to do so, Apple still hadn't complied.
>>>
>>> Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C. I’m typing this on a
>>> USB-C iPad. The new iPhone 16 is also so equipped, as are I believe their
>>> new AirPod chargers. MacBooks have been USB-C powered for years - probably
>>> one of the earliest laptops to adopt the standard.
>>
>> As now they *MUST*, but Alan Browne's false claim implied that Apple
>> were already complying at the time that the legislation made compliance
>> compulsory, but in fact they were not, which is exactly WHY the
>> legislation made compliance compulsory!
>>
>
> 28th December 2024 is the deadline for compliance - so I’m guessing that’s
> why there is expected to be an iPad announcement in October. Some of the
> older models still on sale will need replacing.
>
Something else I’ve just discovered - vendors will not be able to bundle a
USB-C charger with the device, it must always be sold separately. So not
the vendor trying to swizz you with an extra sale.

There’s going to have to be some more user education though - I’ve seen
otherwise very intelligent people complaining that their laptop isn’t
charging properly from their phone charger….

Mark Carver wrote:

> Tweed wrote:
>
>> The new iPhone has USB-C not micro USB.
>
> As do most (all ?) Androids made this decade ?

I got my first USB-C tablet nearly a decade ago (Nokia N1)

Java Jive wrote:

> Tweed wrote:
>
>> Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C.
> > As now they *MUST*

I don't believe the EU charger directive is in effect for all device
types yet?

On 2024-09-14 19:47, Andy Burns wrote:
>
> Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>> Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C.
>>
>> As now they *MUST*
>
> I don't believe the EU charger directive is in effect for all device
> types yet?

Yes, as Tweed pointed out, the legislation gave a limited time for
manufacturers to comply, which I had forgotten about.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Apple should be able to make any connector it wants to make.
Even one which is designed specifically to prevent interaction.

If people would just stick only to Apple products, they'd be fine
as there's no need for interoperability if you buy only Apple product.

As Tim Cook openly said, "Buy your mom an iPhone" if you want your device
to work with another company's products. It's all Apple around here.

So it shouldn't matter if nobody else uses Apple's connector.
It's a free and openly competitive world market, isn't it?

Using <news:vc4nga$1krpk$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive wrote:

>> I don't believe the EU charger directive is in effect for all device
>> types yet?
>
> Yes, as Tweed pointed out, the legislation gave a limited time for
> manufacturers to comply, which I had forgotten about.

I wish the EU would also force Apple to put decent sized batteries into the
iPhone given most are well undersized compared to similar Android phones.

Likewise with the RAM where even now, Apple has begrudgingly provided, for
the first time in iPhone history, a normal amount of RAM where even that
amount is the bare minimum possible to give customers, according to Apple
execs asked why, for the first time, they put normal amounts of RAM in.

https://www.tomsguide.com/phones/iphones/all-iphone-16-models-have-8gb-ram-and-apple-just-explained-why

Why is it only Apple that puts the absolute bare minimum of things the
customers need & want, without being forced to do it by EU legislation?

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
> Apple should be able to make any connector it wants to make.
> Even one which is designed specifically to prevent interaction.
>
> If people would just stick only to Apple products, they'd be fine
> as there's no need for interoperability if you buy only Apple product.
>
> As Tim Cook openly said, "Buy your mom an iPhone" if you want your device
> to work with another company's products. It's all Apple around here.
>
> So it shouldn't matter if nobody else uses Apple's connector.
> It's a free and openly competitive world market, isn't it?
>

Thing is, Apple didn’t even have inter operability between its own
products. MacBooks have had USB-C for years (you can’t push enough power
through a Lightning connector) So you couldn’t use your Mac charger to
charge your Lightning connector iPhone or iPad or ear phones. Now you can.
I’d understand reluctance to move to usb-c if there were any significant
technical downsides, but I can’t see any. It supports a wider range of
charge voltages than Lightning, has a more robust connector, (though some
disagree about this) and supports a much wider range of protocols including
high speed video. Lightning was a much better technical and mechanical
solution than micro USB, but it is now technically and commercially
obsolete.

On 13.09.24 18:35, Andrew wrote:
> The news is replete with how the EU slowly but surely, one by one, forces
> Apple to do what every decent company has already done in terms of app
> stores (e.g., Microsoft & Google have always allowed alternative repos).
>
> Now, finally, Apple is allowing its customer base that basic decency;
> however, all the news says is that the EU forced Apple to be decent.
> *Apple Will Make Alternative App Marketplaces and Browser Engines Available on the iPad in the EU Starting Monday*
> <https://www.macstories.net/news/apple-will-make-alternative-app-marketplaces-and-browser-engines-available-in-the-eu-starting-monday/>
> "You may recall that in April, the European Commission has added
> iPadOS to the products and services subject to the Digital Markets
> Act (DMA). Before then, the DMA only applied to the iPhone, meaning
> that, if you live in the EU, changes to iOS, like browser default
> choices and alternative app marketplaces, are currently only
> available on your iPhone. That changes on Monday"
> *Update on iPadOS 18 apps distributed in the European Union*
> <https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=4sn7e783>>
> "Starting September 16:
> Users in the EU can download iPadOS apps on the App Store
> and through alternative distribution...
> Alternative browser engines can be used in iPadOS apps."
>
> As of Brexit, the UK is not formally in the EU - but that's a political
> boundary (where the border-free Schengen Area is another such boundary).
>
> My question, which those in the UK may be able to answer from experience,
> is whether or not Apple extends common decencies forced upon it to the UK?

The UK is as you already had to learn a non-EU country with all
consequences.

The reason why is very simple: The EU laws do not apply to the UK
territory and UK residents cannot under any circumstances claim to have
the rights the EU law stipulates and enforce them.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 14.09.24 17:26, Alan Browne wrote:
> The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.

Brain dead idiot. And you do not understand the technicalities at all
and the fiasco is a figment of your imagniation.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>> Apple should be able to make any connector it wants to make.
>> Even one which is designed specifically to prevent interaction.
>>
>> If people would just stick only to Apple products, they'd be fine
>> as there's no need for interoperability if you buy only Apple product.
>>
>> As Tim Cook openly said, "Buy your mom an iPhone" if you want your device
>> to work with another company's products. It's all Apple around here.
>>
>> So it shouldn't matter if nobody else uses Apple's connector.
>> It's a free and openly competitive world market, isn't it?
>>
>
> Thing is, Apple didn’t even have inter operability between its own
> products.

Agree. And I've said this before on here.

Apple didn't transition to USB-C from USB-A well or consistently. When Macs
lost USB-A ports phones should have gone the same way shortly after.

What happened instead is that Apple bundled phones with USB-A - lightning
charges for years without an ability to charge your phone with your Mac. In
all that time they sold billions of phones with USB-A chargers.

Then, when they transitioned to USB-C, only at one end of the cable, they
also removed the charger (apart from ones model). So forced everyone to buy
chargers.

> MacBooks have had USB-C for years (you can’t push enough power
> through a Lightning connector) So you couldn’t use your Mac charger to
> charge your Lightning connector iPhone or iPad or ear phones. Now you can.
> I’d understand reluctance to move to usb-c if there were any significant
> technical downsides, but I can’t see any. It supports a wider range of
> charge voltages than Lightning, has a more robust connector, (though some
> disagree about this) and supports a much wider range of protocols including
> high speed video. Lightning was a much better technical and mechanical
> solution than micro USB, but it is now technically and commercially
> obsolete.

Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>>> Apple should be able to make any connector it wants to make.
>>> Even one which is designed specifically to prevent interaction.
>>>
>>> If people would just stick only to Apple products, they'd be fine
>>> as there's no need for interoperability if you buy only Apple product.
>>>
>>> As Tim Cook openly said, "Buy your mom an iPhone" if you want your device
>>> to work with another company's products. It's all Apple around here.
>>>
>>> So it shouldn't matter if nobody else uses Apple's connector.
>>> It's a free and openly competitive world market, isn't it?
>>>
>>
>> Thing is, Apple didn’t even have inter operability between its own
>> products.
>
> Agree. And I've said this before on here.
>
> Apple didn't transition to USB-C from USB-A well or consistently. When Macs
> lost USB-A ports phones should have gone the same way shortly after.
>
> What happened instead is that Apple bundled phones with USB-A - lightning
> charges for years without an ability to charge your phone with your Mac. In
> all that time they sold billions of phones with USB-A chargers.
>
> Then, when they transitioned to USB-C, only at one end of the cable, they
> also removed the charger (apart from ones model). So forced everyone to buy
> chargers.
>
>> MacBooks have had USB-C for years (you can’t push enough power
>> through a Lightning connector) So you couldn’t use your Mac charger to
>> charge your Lightning connector iPhone or iPad or ear phones. Now you can.
>> I’d understand reluctance to move to usb-c if there were any significant
>> technical downsides, but I can’t see any. It supports a wider range of
>> charge voltages than Lightning, has a more robust connector, (though some
>> disagree about this) and supports a much wider range of protocols including
>> high speed video. Lightning was a much better technical and mechanical
>> solution than micro USB, but it is now technically and commercially
>> obsolete.
>
> Agree. Lightning should have died 3-4 years ago.
>
>
I wonder if Covid and the semi conductor shortage had anything to do with
Lightning hanging on longer than it should? All manufacturers in all
electronics sectors had supply problems, mainly with the dull low value
devices - such as usb and power supervisory chips. As Apple had a monopoly
with Lightning in phones perhaps they had fewer problems getting hold of
these parts. Just speculating.

On 2024-09-14 12:30, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2024-09-14 16:26, Alan Browne wrote:

>> The European USB-C fiasco just creates more e-waste.
>>
>> Apple, in its own good time, would have brought USB-C to iPhone, etc.
>> Indeed, the newest iPhone would likely have been the launch USB-C
>> iPhone.  Instead the EU forced Apple to go a year early.
>>
>> All this "decision" does is create early e-waste of lightning
>> connectors and some wall-warts.
>>
>> Government over regulating.  EU!
>
> BOLLOCKS!  The above is just yet another predictable example of Apple
> propaganda & EU-bashing.  The simple truth is that nearly all the other
> manufacturers had already adopted the USB-C standard while it was still
> voluntary, but Apple had more or less refused point blank [my caps to
> highlight the overwhelming majority]:

Apple is a business and make business decisions. Apple is one of the
original companies that _defined_ USB-C. But, they also jumped ahead of
everyone with the Lightning connector quite a while before that - and
therefore there was (is) a lot of Lightning based cables and accessories
out there.

From Apple and Apple's customers point of view, the adoption of USB-C
just lessens the life of existing materiel.

Various other Apple products had already transitioned (iPads,
MacBooks...) so it was a matter of time before the iPhone would follow.
Just not yet until the EU forced their hand - result: more e-waste - not
less.

And by the way, using 'bollocks' in upper case doesn't make your
argument better.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill

On 2024-09-14 13:00, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2024-09-14 17:51, Tweed wrote:

>> Pretty much all new Apple products are now USB-C. I’m typing this on a
>> USB-C iPad. The new iPhone 16 is also so equipped, as are I believe their
>> new AirPod chargers. MacBooks have been USB-C powered for years -
>> probably
>> one of the earliest laptops to adopt the standard.
>
> As now they *MUST*, but Alan Browne's false claim implied that Apple
> were already complying at the time that the legislation made compliance
> compulsory, but in fact they were not, which is exactly WHY the
> legislation made compliance compulsory!

That is *not* what I said. Apple had no intention of putting USB-C on
the iPhone 15 - but were forced by EU regs. Result: more e-waste.

Apple *was* already putting USB-C on various other products including an
iPad I bought several years prior.

--
"It would be a measureless disaster if Russian barbarism overlaid
the culture and independence of the ancient States of Europe."
Winston Churchill