Chris wrote:

>> Again, if you only use the iPhone for basic things like playing games, then
>> you won't notice how debilitating the walled garden truly is when you want
>> to do things that everyone else does without even thinking about doing it.
>
> Such as? Millions of people use iphones for work and not just play games.
> None of them feel "debilitated".
>
>>>> It's like someone who thinks the earth revolves around the moon isn't
>>>> actually ever going to get a spaceship to the moon thinking that way.
>>>
>>> How many people fly to the moon...?
>>
>> The number of things that every operating system except iOS does that iOS
>> doesn't do is so large that it's debilitating to use an iPhone after you've
>> used Android with any other operating system, including Linux & Windows.
>
> Do you think iphone owners have never used other operating systems? Most,
> if not all, will be familiar with windows, macOS or linux and yet they
> still keep buying expensive, "debilitated" phones.
>
>>>> Because the number of rather useful things that everyone else can do but
>>>> which the walled garden prevents you from doing is absolutely astounding.
>>>
>>> "Everyone else" being tech nerds who like to tinker. Everyone else truly
>>> just want something that works for Snapchat, tiktok and instagram.
>>
>> What if you want to plug any phone you want into any Windows or Linux PC
>> you want where you can copy files back and forth to anywhere you want?
>
> Only a tiny number of people want to do that.

I know full well for the many hundreds of things iPhone users can't do
because they're stuck inside the walled garden, you'll say they're all
Not needed. Not wanted.

Such as the privacy everyone else gets with the Tor Browser except iOS.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.

Such as the ability to copy files both ways with Windows just by connecting
to the Windows computer without installing anything on the Windows
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.

Such as the ability to choose your default messenger for sms/mms, and to
choose your default contacts manager and to choose your default dialer.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.

Such as the ability to name app icons what you want them named, and to put
them where you want them (even in multiple places) for your organization.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.

Such as the ability to have two environments, one for work and one for you,
to keep your work environment apps and objectives separate from your home.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.

Along that vein, having the ability to have multiple users should you want
them is available on every computer platform except on iOS.
On iOS that functionality everyone else has is: Not needed. Not wanted.

The list of useful features that are on every other platform except on iOS
shows how debilitating the walled garden is when iOS is in the real world.

As a result iOS is a toy that doesn't work in the real world (unless all
you do with the iPhone is play games - yet - for games - iOS works well).

Apple optimized iOS to fit its users.

On 4/28/2024 11:53 PM, Chris wrote:

>> If your PC really needs that ipad, it must be a pretty lame computer. I
>> would agree that an ipad might help, if your PC is from 1991, sporting an
>> intel 386 with a single 5-1/4" floppy.
>
> An ipad is just as fast as a PC for pretty much any desktop task. Apple
> Silicon blows intel out of the water for efficiency and anything below 13th
> gen intel in raw power.

Except when it comes to cryptography where Apple Silicon is fatally flawed.

On Apr 28, 2024 at 9:14:06 PM EDT, "Frankie" <frankie@nospam.usa> wrote:

> But anyone who claims that "Files" is the solution, doesn't live in the
> real world, as someone else has already shown in rather gory detail.

You - and "someone else" - have no idea what you are talking about.

> They're just making excuses for why iOS Apple devices don't interoperate.

Get a clue. The Files app IS the solution. You connect to a shared drive.
Just like you do with Windows. You enter your Windows login name and password.
You can then see the entire
"C" drive. Or any other shared drive on the Windows box. Depending, of course,
on the permissions on the shared drive. Mine are Full Control, because no one
but me will be doing this.

Again, just because you don't know how to do something, does not mean it can't
be done.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
>
> Apple optimized iOS to fit its users.

Correction. It is optimised for 95% of all users.

All functionality you mention is of no interests to the average android
user either. Of course, if those are genuinely things you want to do -
other than simply grind your axe - then ios is not for you. It's called
freedom of choice.

On 27.04.24 12:26, Enrico Papaloma wrote:
> On 4/27/2024 8:53 AM, Chris wrote:
>>> You know this because you have experienced it.
>>> Everyone has.
>>
>> Nope never.
>
> Now you're just being ridiculous.
>
> To deny that there are slowdowns after updating/upgrading iOS is to deny
> what many people have & even Apple has documented to often be the case.

The issue is: You do not know why it slows down after an upgrade. It is
simply the index that is rebuilt. On new hardware it is not noticeable
anymore and it takes usually a couple of minutes. Just watch the process
"mds_store". But you are just an idiot, Arlen.
BTW: Other OS do the same but by factors less efficiently.

--
"Alea iacta est." (Julius Caesar)

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 06:48:50 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> Correction. It is optimised for 95% of all users.
>
> All functionality you mention is of no interests to the average android
> user either. Of course, if those are genuinely things you want to do -
> other than simply grind your axe - then ios is not for you. It's called
> freedom of choice.

I knew ahead of time you'd say that all functionality that all other
operating systems have is "not needed" & "not wanted" by iOS users.

I haven't even started to list the functionality that iOS can't do that all
other operating systems easily do - such as system-wide firewalls.

But you'll say that only iOS users feel firewalls are "not needed" & "not
wanted" because that's your excuse for why iOS can't do anything useful.

Given the system-wide firewall on Android is also a system wide ad blocker,
you'll say that only iOS users feel system-wide ad blocking is "not needed"
& "not wanted" because that's your excuse for why iOS can't do anything
useful.

Regarding that Android can always extract the installation APK to use on
any Android device - not just ones with your google account - and
especially noting how crippled the iOS IPA installation process is (given
iOS is almost completely brain dead in terms of using an IPA for multiple
devices, each with a different Apple ID), you'd say the ability to install
tools on an iOS device (particularly ones no longer in the app store) is
yet another functionality every other platform enjoys that is "not needed"
& "not wanted" on iOS as your fundamental excuse for why iOS can't do
anything useful in the real world.

If I mentioned that every other operating system except iOS has waveform
tools to help you debug your WI-Fi and cellular signal (if the device has
the appropriate radios, of course), again you'd say that nobody on iOS
every has a need to debug Wi-Fi or cellular and hence, such useful tools in
the real world are, in your mind, "not needed" & "not wanted" in the toy
world of the iOS user.

I could list more than a hundred rather useful things that everyone can
easily do except iOS users, and you'd say that useful things are "not
needed" and "not wanted" as your fundamental excuse for why iOS can't do
what every other operating system easily does.

All you're really saying is that the real world is not what iOS was
designed for, since iOS only works within limitations of the walled garden.

Apple designed iOS to be a toy operating system that only works within the
extreme limitations of the infamous Apple walled garden & not in the real
world.

And your own excuses aptly prove that iOS is exactly that. A toy.

On 2024-04-28 15:20, Oscar Mayer wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 12:48:06 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).
>>
>> When you write "walled garden" 1,000,000 times you get a fluffy bear.
>
> If someone claims there is no walled garden, that simply means they only
> use the Apple device as a toy. They don't actually do anything with it.

I integrate both my personal needs and business with Apple devices.
Makes all things exceedingly seamless and easy. This includes not only
the usual apps, but high end productivity apps and s/w written for
personal and business use.

You (OTOH) are just a sad, broken troll.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On 2024-04-28 20:41, Oscar Mayer wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 21:35:11 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>>> It's only Apple's operating systems that don't work in the real world
>>> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).
>>
>> I wonder what unreal world the people who buy Apple devices live in? I
>> mean
>> there are billions of them.
>> They all seem living pretty normal lives. In fact I wonder if it's
>> them who
>> live in the real world and not you. Just a thought.
>
> You don't use the iPhone in the real world - because it doesn't work in the
> real world (e.g., Linux is in the real word as is Windows as are iPhones
> which are not registered to you so you don't know their AppleID password).
>
> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.

Since I use and program Linux for desktop and embedded projects I can
attest to its severe limitations in the "real world".

Esp. the absence of the more useful productivity apps (MS Office, Adobe
creative s/w, etc.).

You remain a sad, broken and ineffective troll.

--
“Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first;
nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.”
- Charles de Gaulle.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 10:19:40 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> I integrate both my personal needs and business with Apple devices.
> Makes all things exceedingly seamless and easy. This includes not only
> the usual apps, but high end productivity apps and s/w written for
> personal and business use.
>
> You (OTOH) are just a sad, broken troll.

You call me a troll because you dislike the unpleasant truth about Apple.

You "claim" to do things but you have only used the iPhone as a toy.
There is no other way to use it given how little it actually can do.

I listed already about over a score of very basic things that the iPhone
can't do because the iPhone was never designed to work in the real world.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 10:23:25 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>
> Since I use and program Linux for desktop and embedded projects I can
> attest to its severe limitations in the "real world".
>
> Esp. the absence of the more useful productivity apps (MS Office, Adobe
> creative s/w, etc.).
>
> You remain a sad, broken and ineffective troll.

When Android plugs into Linux, bidirectional file transfer just works.
Not so with iOS, which was never designed to work in the real world.

You call me a troll simply for stating that unpleasant truth to you.

The only place the iPhone (barely) works is inside the walled garden.
And even then, the iPhone till can't do what every other phone does.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 06:48:50 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> Correction. It is optimised for 95% of all users.
>>
>> All functionality you mention is of no interests to the average android
>> user either. Of course, if those are genuinely things you want to do -
>> other than simply grind your axe - then ios is not for you. It's called
>> freedom of choice.
>
> I knew ahead of time you'd say that all functionality that all other
> operating systems have is "not needed" & "not wanted" by iOS users.

lol. Reading isn't not a strength of yours, clearly. I did not say that.
Try again.

[snip verbal diarrhoea]

Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2024-04-28 20:41, Oscar Mayer wrote:
>> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 21:35:11 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>>
>>>> It's only Apple's operating systems that don't work in the real world
>>>> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).
>>>
>>> I wonder what unreal world the people who buy Apple devices live in? I
>>> mean
>>> there are billions of them.
>>> They all seem living pretty normal lives. In fact I wonder if it's
>>> them who
>>> live in the real world and not you. Just a thought.
>>
>> You don't use the iPhone in the real world - because it doesn't work in the
>> real world (e.g., Linux is in the real word as is Windows as are iPhones
>> which are not registered to you so you don't know their AppleID password).
>>
>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>
> Since I use and program Linux for desktop and embedded projects I can
> attest to its severe limitations in the "real world".
>
> Esp. the absence of the more useful productivity apps (MS Office, Adobe
> creative s/w, etc.).

Agree. That's the main reason I moved from linux to macOS. OpenOffice just
didn't cut it in a work environment.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 21:35:11 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>>> It's only Apple's operating systems that don't work in the real world
>>> (which is the world that includes more than just the walled garden).
>>
>> I wonder what unreal world the people who buy Apple devices live in? I mean
>> there are billions of them.
>>
>> They all seem living pretty normal lives. In fact I wonder if it's them who
>> live in the real world and not you. Just a thought.
>
> You don't use the iPhone in the real world - because it doesn't work in the
> real world (e.g., Linux is in the real word as is Windows as are iPhones
> which are not registered to you so you don't know their AppleID password).
>
> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.

You're increasingly convincing me that you don't know what the real world
is.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:45:52 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

> I did not say that.

Yes, you did.

Your main excuse for why iOS can't do what every other operating system
easily does (particularly Android), is that being able to do useful things
is, in your opinion, "not needed" & "not wanted" by iOS users.

But that's only your excuse for why iOS doesn't work in the real world.

Apple built iOS for users who don't do anything useful except play games.

Chris wrote on Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:50:54 -0000 (UTC) :

>>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>>
>> Since I use and program Linux for desktop and embedded projects I can
>> attest to its severe limitations in the "real world".
>>
>> Esp. the absence of the more useful productivity apps (MS Office, Adobe
>> creative s/w, etc.).
>
> Agree. That's the main reason I moved from linux to macOS. OpenOffice just
> didn't cut it in a work environment.

In the work environment, almost everyone uses Microsoft Office nowadays.
Extremely few corporations use macOS as almost all use Microsoft Windows.

However, some do use macOS, but usually only in the marketing departments
where the women (it's almost always women) who do the graphics learned on
the mac and they can't switch to anything else as they don't like change.

As for engineers, almost all are on Linux (although many are dual boot with
Windows which, in effect, gives them the best of both worlds on one PC).

Extremely few engineers would want to be caught dead on macOS, but some
exist (mostly those who are like the marketing communications people).

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:50:55 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>
> You're increasingly convincing me that you don't know what the real world
> is.

You have to admit that you prove my point the instant you said that.
You have no idea what libimobiledevice and iFuse are, isn't that right.

Those are, BTW, the most fundamental components of the interface between
Linux and iOS and you don't have a clue what those interfaces even do.

In your complete confidence of your supreme ignorance of the real world,
you then say I don't know how iOS interfaces to the Linux world.

That proves my point about you.
You know nothing about iOS.

Worse, you don't know the first thing of how iOS interfaces to Linux.
And Linux, my dear friend, happens to be a part of the real world.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:50:55 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>>
>> You're increasingly convincing me that you don't know what the real world
>> is.
>
> You have to admit that you prove my point the instant you said that.
> You have no idea what libimobiledevice and iFuse are, isn't that right.
>
> Those are, BTW, the most fundamental components of the interface between
> Linux and iOS and you don't have a clue what those interfaces even do.
>
> In your complete confidence of your supreme ignorance of the real world,
> you then say I don't know how iOS interfaces to the Linux world.
>
> That proves my point about you.
> You know nothing about iOS.
>
> Worse, you don't know the first thing of how iOS interfaces to Linux.
> And Linux, my dear friend, happens to be a part of the real world.
>
Ok Arlen. If someone doesn’t use Linux how is anything you say relevant to
them? iPhones are the real world for many people who use neither Linux nor
its offshoot Android.

Next you will be telling us about Dunning Kruger or beemers vs bimmers .

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:45:52 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> I did not say that.
>
> Yes, you did.
>
> Your main excuse for why iOS can't do what every other operating system
> easily does (particularly Android), is that being able to do useful things
> is, in your opinion, "not needed" & "not wanted" by iOS users.
>
> But that's only your excuse for why iOS doesn't work in the real world.
>
> Apple built iOS for users who don't do anything useful except play games.
>
I never play games Arlen. I type quite a few documents into Pages though.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:50:54 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>>>
>>> Since I use and program Linux for desktop and embedded projects I can
>>> attest to its severe limitations in the "real world".
>>>
>>> Esp. the absence of the more useful productivity apps (MS Office, Adobe
>>> creative s/w, etc.).
>>
>> Agree. That's the main reason I moved from linux to macOS. OpenOffice just
>> didn't cut it in a work environment.
>
> In the work environment, almost everyone uses Microsoft Office nowadays.

Exactly why I moved to macOS. Best of all worlds. A real unix and standard
office productivity apps. I can hack away on a shell script and prepare a
ppt presentation at the same time.

> Extremely few corporations use macOS as almost all use Microsoft Windows.

Yeah many stick to the lowest common denominator. Cheap and cheerful.

> However, some do use macOS, but usually only in the marketing departments
> where the women (it's almost always women) who do the graphics learned on
> the mac and they can't switch to anything else as they don't like change.

Lol. You're funny for neanderthal.

> As for engineers, almost all are on Linux (although many are dual boot with
> Windows which, in effect, gives them the best of both worlds on one PC).

In which industry? I think you'll find that many engineering tools are
windows only.

> Extremely few engineers would want to be caught dead on macOS, but some
> exist (mostly those who are like the marketing communications people).

Who cares about engineers. Scientists often prefer macs. Watch any recent
documentary about astrophysics or high energy physics and you'll see many
macs on display. Same in other informatics fields like genomics although
not so much in computer science.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:45:52 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>> I did not say that.
>
> Yes, you did.

Nope. You're hallucinating. Again.

> Your main excuse for why iOS can't do

I made no excuses. I, in fact, acknowledged that the things you say you
want to do can't be done on ios.

The only person getting beat up over what ios can't do, is you.

Oscar Mayer <nobody@oscarmayer.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 16:50:55 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:
>
>>> Apple doesn't support Linux working with iOS - Linux is in the real world.
>>
>> You're increasingly convincing me that you don't know what the real world
>> is.
>
> You have to admit that you prove my point the instant you said that.
> You have no idea what libimobiledevice and iFuse are, isn't that right.

It's funny when someone tries to boast about something trivial.

> Those are, BTW, the most fundamental components of the interface between
> Linux and iOS and you don't have a clue what those interfaces even do.

I was using FUSE about 10 years ago to be able to mount NTFS drives and ssh
connections in linux. It worked, but was pretty flakey and very slow.

> In your complete confidence of your supreme ignorance of the real world,
> you then say I don't know how iOS interfaces to the Linux world.

You're projecting. I never said such a thing.

On 2024-04-29, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>
>> However, some do use macOS, but usually only in the marketing
>> departments where the women (it's almost always women) who do the
>> graphics learned on the mac and they can't switch to anything else as
>> they don't like change.
>
> Lol. You're funny for neanderthal.

Trolls are bullies at heart, and their true colors always end up oozing
out from behind their masks, despite their attempts to hide them. 😉

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 08:59:19 +0200, J�rg Lorenz wrote:

> Other OS do the same but by factors less efficiently.

Only iOS uses a primitive update mechanism that makes slowdowns frequent.

Android updates seamlessly with A/B partitions using Project Treble.
<https://www.computerworld.com/article/3306443/what-is-project-treble-android-upgrade-fix-explained.html>

The entire operating system is updated completely without the user even
knowing it - that's how a _modern_ operating system is designed to update.

Android updates are so modern that every month all Android phones (newer
than Android 4.4) have had their security updated monthly via the Google
Play System Update (formerly called Project Mainline).
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>

The reason slowdowns are frequent with iOS is the primitive update
mechanism Apple uses (which benefits only Apple - but not the user).

Jolly Roger wrote on 30 Apr 2024 00:45:51 GMT :

>>> However, some do use macOS, but usually only in the marketing
>>> departments where the women (it's almost always women) who do the
>>> graphics learned on the mac and they can't switch to anything else as
>>> they don't like change.
>>
>> Lol. You're funny for neanderthal.
>
> Trolls are bullies at heart, and their true colors always end up oozing
> out from behind their masks, despite their attempts to hide them.

And yet I stated the truth about Linux & Microsoft Windows/Office.

It's interesting that I said the correct statistical data about the use of
Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office in the corporate environment, and in
the use of Linux (almost always Redhat due to the corporate support) in the
engineering world and Chris called me a Neanderthal for stating those
facts.

It doesn't matter that everyone knows those facts, as simply stating them
causes you Apple nutcases to call all truths about Apple to be trolls.

On Mon, 29 Apr 2024 22:31:13 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote:

>> You have to admit that you prove my point the instant you said that.
>> You have no idea what libimobiledevice and iFuse are, isn't that right.
>
> It's funny when someone tries to boast about something trivial.

You proved it yourself that you lack any understanding of how iOS works.

>> Those are, BTW, the most fundamental components of the interface between
>> Linux and iOS and you don't have a clue what those interfaces even do.
>
> I was using FUSE about 10 years ago to be able to mount NTFS drives and ssh
> connections in linux. It worked, but was pretty flakey and very slow.

My point was you have no idea how iOS works, and therefore you've never
once heard of libimobiledevice & iFuse, which are how iOS works.

>> In your complete confidence of your supreme ignorance of the real world,
>> you then say I don't know how iOS interfaces to the Linux world.
>
> You're projecting. I never said such a thing.

Given you have no idea how iOS works, how could you claim anything about
iOS, particularly how iOS works in the real world (such as Linux/Windows)?

You can't.