Hi badgolferman,

Adults make their assessments based on facts.
Apple religious zealots do not.

In fact, Apple religious zealots don't even know the facts.
But I do know the facts.

Now that you've clicked on the reference links, what do you think?

Q: Does Apple fully support more than one major release or not?
A: ?

Q: Does the iPhone have ten times the exploits that Android has?
A: ?

Q: Does Samsung & Google fully support multiple releases or not?
A: ?

REFERENCES for QUESTION #1:
*About software updates for Apple devices*
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
"not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions
(for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on)"
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

REFERENCE for QUESTION #2:
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

REFERENCES for QUESTION #3:
*Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years*
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/>
"Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of
security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades."

*Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software updates*
<https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates>
"That support covers everything, including full Android updates,
the regular Pixel feature drops and security updates."

If the uneducated ignorant Apple religious zealots want to dispute these
facts, ask them to provide references such as I do for all my facts.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Hi badgolferman,
>
> Adults make their assessments based on facts.
> Apple religious zealots do not.
>
> In fact, Apple religious zealots don't even know the facts.
> But I do know the facts.
>
> Now that you've clicked on the reference links, what do you think?
>
> Q: Does Apple fully support more than one major release or not?
> A: ?
>
> Q: Does the iPhone have ten times the exploits that Android has?
> A: ?
>
> Q: Does Samsung & Google fully support multiple releases or not?
> A: ?
>
> REFERENCES for QUESTION #1:
> *About software updates for Apple devices*
> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
> "not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions
> (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on)"
> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>
> REFERENCE for QUESTION #2:
> <https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
>
> REFERENCES for QUESTION #3:
> *Samsung Extends Android and Security Updates to 7 Years*
> <https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/>
> "Samsung phones now come backed with seven years' worth of
> security updates and seven generations of OS upgrades."
>
> *Google just put Apple and Samsung on notice - 7 years of software updates*
> <https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates>
> "That support covers everything, including full Android updates,
> the regular Pixel feature drops and security updates."
>
> If the uneducated ignorant Apple religious zealots want to dispute these
> facts, ask them to provide references such as I do for all my facts.
>

Fortunately what others believe about their phones doesn’t affect me. On
the other hand I appreciate being presented with facts to make my own
decisions.

My iPhones rarely last 5-7 years anyway. Some part of the hardware will go
bad, like batteries, charging ports, broken glass, etc. Or Tmobile will
offer a free upgrade every few years.

badgolferman wrote on Mon, 13 May 2024 09:29:23 -0000 (UTC) :

> Fortunately what others believe about their phones doesn�t affect me. On
> the other hand I appreciate being presented with facts to make my own
> decisions.

The brazen lies by the Apple religious zealots bothers me, if not you.

FACTS:
1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.

For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.

> My iPhones rarely last 5-7 years anyway. Some part of the hardware will go
> bad, like batteries, charging ports, broken glass, etc. Or Tmobile will
> offer a free upgrade every few years.

There's a difference between facts & assessments where my assessment of the
three facts above are the statements...

1. *Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry.*
2. *The iPhone is the least secure smartphone in history.*
3. *Google & Samsung fully support far more releases than Apple does.*

What's interesting is the ignorant uneducated Apple zealots don't
realize this because the only thing they know is what Apple feeds them.

On 2024-05-13 11:27, Andrew wrote:
> badgolferman wrote on Mon, 13 May 2024 09:29:23 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> Fortunately what others believe about their phones doesn�t affect me. On
>> the other hand I appreciate being presented with facts to make my own
>> decisions.
>
> The brazen lies by the Apple religious zealots bothers me, if not you.
>
> FACTS:
> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).

Fact: Apple supports older phones by making sure that they can run the
latest iOS for years.

> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.

That's an unproven ASSERTION, not a fact.

> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.

That is a recent development.

>
> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>
>> My iPhones rarely last 5-7 years anyway. Some part of the hardware will go
>> bad, like batteries, charging ports, broken glass, etc. Or Tmobile will
>> offer a free upgrade every few years.
>
> There's a difference between facts & assessments where my assessment of the
> three facts above are the statements...
>
> 1. *Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry.*
> 2. *The iPhone is the least secure smartphone in history.*
> 3. *Google & Samsung fully support far more releases than Apple does.*
>
> What's interesting is the ignorant uneducated Apple zealots don't
> realize this because the only thing they know is what Apple feeds them.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> badgolferman wrote on Mon, 13 May 2024 09:29:23 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>> Fortunately what others believe about their phones doesnąt affect me. On
>> the other hand I appreciate being presented with facts to make my own
>> decisions.
>
> The brazen lies by the Apple religious zealots bothers me, if not you.
>
> FACTS:
> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>
> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.

Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?

On 2024-05-14, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>> badgolferman wrote on Mon, 13 May 2024 09:29:23 -0000 (UTC) :
>>
>>> Fortunately what others believe about their phones doesnąt affect me. On
>>> the other hand I appreciate being presented with facts to make my own
>>> decisions.
>>
>> The brazen lies by the Apple religious zealots bothers me, if not you.
>>
>> FACTS:
>> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
>> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
>> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>>
>> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>
> Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
> religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?

"Everyone who calls me out on my brazen lies is an Apple religion
zealot, y'all! 🤡"

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Chris wrote on Tue, 14 May 2024 18:38:38 -0000 (UTC) :

>> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
>> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
>> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>>
>> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>
> Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
> religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?

Chris,
Please keep in mind that you're ignorant.
You know absolutely nothing.

You don't know how Android updates.
And you don't know how iOS updates.

I do. (Because I'm not stupid).
You don't.

I am only feeding you bit by bit - I don't talk to you like an adult.
With badgolferman - I talk to him like an adult - but not with you.

Google has been updating _all_ Android phones over version 4.4 for years!
Monthly.

Yup. Monthly.
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
"Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
media services, Emergency alerts, and others."

That's way more updates than Apple gives you Chris.
I realize this is too much information for you to handle,
but the lack of these updates is why Apple hotfix support stinks.

Google regularly releases these updates to all Android-powered devices,
including smartphones, tablets, TVs, and Wear OS smartwatches.

In addition, Apple only fully supports a single release, Chris.
Yet Jolly Roger lied as recently as a few days ago about that.

Look it up.
He told badgolferman that Apple fully patches all releases.

The fact is Apple only fully supports one release only.
No other operating system vendor has support that sucks that bad.

You can hate me for explaining to you (with facts) that
Apple's support is the worst in the industry - but I don't
expect you to believe in facts.

Because I've told you all this probably scores of times, Chris.
You're too stupid to understand facts about Apple products.

All you know are what Apple says it does.
Not what Apple actually does.

<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

Jolly Roger wrote on 14 May 2024 19:43:07 GMT :

>>> FACTS:
>>> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
>>> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
>>> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>>>
>>> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>>
>> Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
>> religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?
>
> "Everyone who calls me out on my brazen lies is an Apple religion
> zealot, y'all!

And yet, see my post to Chris showing everything both you and Chris
claimed was easily shown (with cites) to be completely wrong.

For example, Google updates bugfixes monthly on billions of old
Android phones (every phone on the net that's older than 4.4).
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>

It's no longer shocking that you religious nutcases not only know
nothing about how iOS or Android is supported - but you think you do.

And yet, the truth is *Apple has the worst hotfix support in the industry*.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

On 2024-05-14 14:09, Andrew wrote:
> Chris wrote on Tue, 14 May 2024 18:38:38 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
>>> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
>>> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>>>
>>> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>>
>> Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
>> religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?
>
> Chris,
> Please keep in mind that...

....absolutely nothing you wrote answered his simple question.

On 2024-05-14, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Tue, 14 May 2024 18:38:38 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
>>> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
>>> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>>>
>>> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>>
>> Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
>> religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?
>
> Chris,
> Please keep in mind that you're ignorant.

More ad hominem.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger wrote on 14 May 2024 23:27:04 GMT :

> More ad hominem.

Do you know how Android updates, Jolly Roger?
The answer is no.

Do you even know how iOS updates, Jolly Roger?
The answer is no.

Facts.

Apple only fully supports one release and one release only.
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>

Not only do Samsung and Google support 7 years of operating system updates
and 7 years of security updates to the operating system, Jolly Roger, but
Google has been updating _all_ Android phones over version 4.4 for years!

Monthly.

Yup. Monthly.
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
"Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
media services, Emergency alerts, and others."

It's so seamless, most Android users don't even know it.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>
> Do you even know how iOS updates, Jolly Roger?
> The answer is no.
>
> Facts.
>
> Apple only fully supports one release and one release only.
> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>

He must know how iOS updates its software. It’s spelled out pretty clearly
in Apple’s own document above.

Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 14, iOS 17,
and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).

badgolferman wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 01:33:32 -0000 (UTC) :

> He must know how iOS updates its software.
> It's spelled out pretty clearly in Apple�s own document above.
>
> Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
> current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 14, iOS 17,
> and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
> versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).

Hi badgolferman,

You know, as well as I do, that Apple only fully supports one release.
But I'm not at all sure that Jolly Roger (and the others) understand it.

Bear in mind I'm the one who informed this newsgroup (long ago) that
Apple only fully supports one major release for all known bugs.

Had I not informed them, they'd never know this and they'd still be
spouting the lie that Apple fully supports more than one major release.

Meanwhile, as you saw from the links, Google and Samsung now support
however many major releases occur in a seven year period - and - as you saw
from the links - since Android 4.4 Google has been updating _all_ Androids
monthly for other hotfix security and basic operating system updates.

Still, Jolly Roger & the rest of them vehemently disagree, saying that they
get iOS or macOS bugfixes every once in a while (as do all the common
consumer operating systems) - and - to them - that's proof of "full"
support.

It's not.

They didn't understand that full hotfix support is completely different
than occasional egregious-bug hotfix support, such as what happened today.
*Yet again, Apple forgot to sufficiently test desktop & iOS versions*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=13855&group=misc.phone.mobile.iphone#13855>

What's no longer shocking is I know iOS better than anyone here,
it seems, and I don't even care about iOS - I'm just not stupid.

None of them understand how any operating system updates, badgolferman.
And yet, they're supremely confident in spouting the lies they spew.

They call all these facts, trolls.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/>
<https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates>
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>

Bear in mind there's a reason why iOS is so full of holes.

One of the reasons is only recently did Apple begin to do
what every other common consumer operating system does,
which is to patch only the bug and not update the whole release.
*RSR patches (only available in iOS 16+)*
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

Also bear in mind Apple's naming convention for update vs upgrade.
*Distinguishing software updates from upgrades*
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>

I talk to you differently than I do to them since you're an
educated adult so I provided you with the detail sufficient
to know that I understand far better how iOS updates than
does Jolly Roger and the rest of them.

That's kind'a funny isn't it?
I don't even care about iOS and I know more than they do.

On 2024-05-15, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>
>> Do you even know how iOS updates, Jolly Roger?
>> The answer is no.
>>
>> Facts.
>>
>> Apple only fully supports one release and one release only.
>> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
>> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>
> He must know how iOS updates its software. It’s spelled out pretty clearly
> in Apple’s own document above.
>
> Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
> current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 14, iOS 17,
> and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
> versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).

I also know you both desperately want us to ignore reality: 67% of
devices run iOS 17, 19% run iOS 16, 8% run iOS 15 = *94%* of devices are
running the three most recent versions of iOS. Apple is regularly
patching iOS 17 through iOS 15.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> On 2024-05-15, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Do you even know how iOS updates, Jolly Roger?
>>> The answer is no.
>>>
>>> Facts.
>>>
>>> Apple only fully supports one release and one release only.
>>> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
>>> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>>> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
>>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>>
>> He must know how iOS updates its software. It’s spelled out pretty clearly
>> in Apple’s own document above.
>>
>> Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
>> current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 14, iOS 17,
>> and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
>> versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).
>
> I also know you both desperately want us to ignore reality: 67% of
> devices run iOS 17, 19% run iOS 16, 8% run iOS 15 = *94%* of devices are
> running the three most recent versions of iOS. Apple is regularly
> patching iOS 17 through iOS 15.
>

I know you say that, but the article from Apple says something else. “Not
all known security issues are addressed in previous versions…”

On 2024-05-15, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-15, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do you even know how iOS updates, Jolly Roger? The answer is no.
>>>>
>>>> Facts.
>>>>
>>>> Apple only fully supports one release and one release only.
>>>> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
>>>> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>>>> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
>>>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>>>
>>> He must know how iOS updates its software. It’s spelled out pretty
>>> clearly in Apple’s own document above.
>>>
>>> Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to
>>> any current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS
>>> 14, iOS 17, and so on), not all known security issues are addressed
>>> in previous versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).
>>
>> I also know you both desperately want us to ignore reality: 67% of
>> devices run iOS 17, 19% run iOS 16, 8% run iOS 15 = *94%* of devices
>> are running the three most recent versions of iOS. Apple is regularly
>> patching iOS 17 through iOS 15.
>
> I know you say that, but the article from Apple says something else.
> “Not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions…”

That doesn't conflict with what I said. Some security vulnerabilities
exist in newer versions of software rather than older versions of
software. It is a fact that Apple is patching bugs in iOS 15 and iOS 16
today along with iOS 17. It's also a fact that 94% of devices run iOS
17. It's also a fact that Apple provides major upgrades and minor
updates to older iPhone models for a longer period of time than their
competitors.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> On 2024-05-15, badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Do you even know how iOS updates, Jolly Roger?
>>>> The answer is no.
>>>>
>>>> Facts.
>>>>
>>>> Apple only fully supports one release and one release only.
>>>> <https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
>>>> <https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
>>>> <https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
>>>> <https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
>>>
>>> He must know how iOS updates its software. It’s spelled out pretty clearly
>>> in Apple’s own document above.
>>>
>>> Note: Because of dependency on architecture and system changes to any
>>> current version of Apple operating systems (for example, macOS 14, iOS 17,
>>> and so on), not all known security issues are addressed in previous
>>> versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).
>>
>> I also know you both desperately want us to ignore reality: 67% of
>> devices run iOS 17, 19% run iOS 16, 8% run iOS 15 = *94%* of devices are
>> running the three most recent versions of iOS. Apple is regularly
>> patching iOS 17 through iOS 15.
>>
>
> I know you say that, but the article from Apple says something else. “Not
> all known security issues are addressed in previous versions…”

Which is accurate, but can be interpreted two ways:

1) Apple chooses to only fix some security issues for pragmatic, commercial
or other reasons within its control.

2) The issue only exists in newer versions of iOS and therefore Apple
cannot patch a non-existent bug in older iOS.

Arlen prefers to believe (1) and that Apple are intentionally leaving their
users at risk because they prefer to treat them like shit. He cannot
entertain the possibility that (2) could be true.

Unfortunately, Apple aren't helpful here. They could be much more explicit
about their policy, because since the last year or so the reality doesn't
fit what they've written.

It is possible that (1) is true and Apple only patch things that are
(knowingly) being exploited in older ios versions. I'm ok with that as
iphones are usually supported with the latest ios for at least 4-5 years.
And have been for much longer than any major android manufacturer.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Tue, 14 May 2024 18:38:38 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> 1. Apple only fully supports a single major release (currently iOS 17).
>>> 2. The iPhone has more than ten times the exploits that Android has.
>>> 3. Google & Samsung support multiple releases in a seven year period.
>>>
>>> For years the Apple religious zealots have lied by denying those facts.
>>
>> Given that the 7-years policy is only a few months old, how can "Apple
>> religious zealots" (sic) have lied for years?
>
> Chris,

Oh, here we go. Rant incoming...

> Please keep in mind that you're ignorant.
> You know absolutely nothing.
>
> You don't know how Android updates.
> And you don't know how iOS updates.
>
> I do. (Because I'm not stupid).
> You don't.

I am in awe. Please go on...[1]

> I am only feeding you bit by bit - I don't talk to you like an adult.
> With badgolferman - I talk to him like an adult - but not with you.

That is *so* considerate of you. Thank you![1]

> Google has been updating _all_ Android phones over version 4.4 for years!
> Monthly.

Lies. The pixel 5a is the oldest supported model. It started with android
11.

> Yup. Monthly.
> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
> media services, Emergency alerts, and others."

But does it patch every exploit in android which is what you claim Apple
does do? Having lots of updates on *some* things is pointless.

Many apps also won't be updated if they're on old versions of android. So
again partially patching android 4.4 is pointless.

> That's way more updates than Apple gives you Chris.

I thought more was bad? Every time there's an ios update, you rave on how
bad apple is at testing things. So android updates = good and apple updates
= bad. Got it![1]

> I realize this is too much information for you to handle,
> but the lack of these updates is why Apple hotfix support stinks.
>
> Google regularly releases these updates to all Android-powered devices,
> including smartphones, tablets, TVs, and Wear OS smartwatches.
>
> In addition, Apple only fully supports a single release, Chris.
> Yet Jolly Roger lied as recently as a few days ago about that.

Not a lie. Facts show the reality.

> Look it up.

I have.

> He told badgolferman that Apple fully patches all releases.
>
> The fact is Apple only fully supports one release only.
> No other operating system vendor has support that sucks that bad.

It's an acceptable model when all supported hardware can run the most OS.
You wouldn't expect anyone to keep a 386 up-to-date? Maybe you would.

> You can hate me for explaining to you (with facts) that
> Apple's support is the worst in the industry - but I don't
> expect you to believe in facts.

I can guarantee you that Apple's support is far from the worst.

> Because I've told you all this probably scores of times, Chris.

Each time is more wrong than the last..

> You're too stupid to understand facts about Apple products.

How about ios geofencing? Know anything about that?

> All you know are what Apple says it does.
> Not what Apple actually does.

That's right. You have no interest in learning.

Jolly Roger wrote on 15 May 2024 14:58:37 GMT :

>>>> not all known security issues are addressed
>>>> in previous versions (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).
>>>
>>> I also know you both desperately want us to ignore reality: 67% of
>>> devices run iOS 17, 19% run iOS 16, 8% run iOS 15 = *94%* of devices
>>> are running the three most recent versions of iOS. Apple is regularly
>>> patching iOS 17 through iOS 15.
>>
>> I know you say that, but the article from Apple says something else.
>> Not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions
>
> That doesn't conflict with what I said. Some security vulnerabilities
> exist in newer versions of software rather than older versions of
> software. It is a fact that Apple is patching bugs in iOS 15 and iOS 16
> today along with iOS 17. It's also a fact that 94% of devices run iOS
> 17. It's also a fact that Apple provides major upgrades and minor
> updates to older iPhone models for a longer period of time than their
> competitors.

It's interesting that the religious zealots can't comprehend the adult
statement that badgolferman quoted directly from Apple's own publication.

*Apple alone only fully supports only a single major release*.

Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 17:12:34 -0000 (UTC) :

> It is possible that (1) is true and Apple only patch things that are
> (knowingly) being exploited in older ios versions. I'm ok with that as
> iphones are usually supported with the latest ios for at least 4-5 years.
> And have been for much longer than any major android manufacturer.

It's no longer surprising how the Apple religious zealots can't comprehend
what is a very simple basic & easily understood adult statement from Apple.

FACT:
*Only Apple only fully patches only one release & only one release alone*

ASSESSMENT: (based on that and many other related facts)
*Apple has the worst operating system bugfix support in the industry*

Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 17:12:35 -0000 (UTC) :

>> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
>> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
>> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
>> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
>> media services, Emergency alerts, and others."
>
> But does it patch every exploit in android which is what you claim Apple
> does do? Having lots of updates on *some* things is pointless.

Chris,
What you do not understand is every operating system (even Apple nowadays,
after iOS 16's introduction of RSRs) isn't patched as a single monolith.

The iPhone, up until iOS 16, was patched as a monolith.
Even now it's still "almost" completely a monolith.

No other operating system is patched that way, Chris. None.
Not Windows. Not Linux. Not Android.

Just iOS.

> Many apps also won't be updated if they're on old versions of android. So
> again partially patching android 4.4 is pointless.

What you do not understand is the non-Google apps are updated separately.

>> That's way more updates than Apple gives you Chris.
>
> I thought more was bad? Every time there's an ios update, you rave on how
> bad apple is at testing things. So android updates = good and apple updates
> = bad. Got it![1]

I wonder if you realize that you Apple religious zealots are so desperate
to claim some sort of victory (when you have the worst support in the
industry) that you're stretching at straws in sheer desperation, Chris?

>> In addition, Apple only fully supports a single release, Chris.
>> Yet Jolly Roger lied as recently as a few days ago about that.
>
> Not a lie. Facts show the reality.

You're not an adult if you don't understand that everyone but you religious
zealots knows Apple only fully patches one release & one release alone.
>> Look it up.
>
> I have.

There's a reason I call you religious zealots ignorant, Chris.

a) You show zero evidence you read the cites that badgolferman did
b) Worse, you show zero evidence that you understood them.

>> The fact is Apple only fully supports one release only.
>> No other operating system vendor has support that sucks that bad.
>
> It's an acceptable model when all supported hardware can run the most OS.
> You wouldn't expect anyone to keep a 386 up-to-date? Maybe you would.

Accepting that Apple has the worst operating system support in the industry
is fine - as long as you *understand* that Apple is the only common
consumer operating system vendor who fully supports only a single release.

>> You can hate me for explaining to you (with facts) that
>> Apple's support is the worst in the industry - but I don't
>> expect you to believe in facts.
>
> I can guarantee you that Apple's support is far from the worst.

Heh, heh, heh. Chris.

There are many (many!) components of operating system support.
How many of them to you know & understand?

And then you have to know & understand how the others do support.

>> Because I've told you all this probably scores of times, Chris.
>
> Each time is more wrong than the last..

Of course. Every Apple religious zealot always resorts to claiming all fact
that they hate about Apple are wrong because Apple didn't advertise them.

Oh wait. Apple did.
And you're still saying that Apple is wrong about their own support.

>> All you know are what Apple says it does.
>> Not what Apple actually does.
>
> That's right. You have no interest in learning.

Actually, the (few) adults on this newsgroup know two things about me.
1. I know Apple's support better than any of you zealots ever will, &
2. I am here to state fact - and to show the zealots for what they are.

Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 17:12:35 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
>>> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
>>> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
>>> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
>>> media services, Emergency alerts, and others."
>>
>> But does it patch every exploit in android which is what you claim Apple
>> does do? Having lots of updates on *some* things is pointless.
>
> Chris,

Answer the question.

>> Many apps also won't be updated if they're on old versions of android. So
>> again partially patching android 4.4 is pointless.
>
> What you do not understand is the non-Google apps are updated separately.

I absolutely know that, which is exactly the point. Non- google apps refuse
to update their apps on obsolete versions of android. So Google supposedly
updating some parts of Android 4.4 is a waste of time.

>>> That's way more updates than Apple gives you Chris.
>>
>> I thought more was bad? Every time there's an ios update, you rave on how
>> bad apple is at testing things. So android updates = good and apple updates
>> = bad. Got it![1]
>

Answer the question. Is the frequency of android updates a good thing?

>
>>> In addition, Apple only fully supports a single release, Chris.
>>> Yet Jolly Roger lied as recently as a few days ago about that.
>>
>> Not a lie. Facts show the reality.
>
> You're not an adult if you don't understand that everyone but you religious
> zealots knows Apple only fully patches one release & one release alone.
>
>>> Look it up.
>>
>> I have.
>
> There's a reason I call you religious zealots ignorant, Chris.
>
> a) You show zero evidence you read the cites that badgolferman did
> b) Worse, you show zero evidence that you understood them.

I have shown you the evidence several times. The fact you chose to snip it
rather address it, speaks volumes regarding your wilful ignorance.

The evidence is two-fold: 1) Apple updates older versions of ios very
regularly, 2) ios support of older hardware is *years* longer than Google
or Samsung. Their new policies will only come into reality i'm a few years.

>>> The fact is Apple only fully supports one release only.
>>> No other operating system vendor has support that sucks that bad.
>>
>> It's an acceptable model when all supported hardware can run the most OS.
>> You wouldn't expect anyone to keep a 386 up-to-date? Maybe you would.
>

Answer the question!

Chris wrote on Mon, 20 May 2024 09:43:04 -0000 (UTC) :

> Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
>> Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 17:12:35 -0000 (UTC) :
>>
>>>> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
>>>> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
>>>> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
>>>> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
>>>> media services, Emergency alerts, and others."
>>>
>>> But does it patch every exploit in android which is what you claim Apple
>>> does do? Having lots of updates on *some* things is pointless.
>>
>> Chris,
>
> Answer the question.

I responded to every one of your questions, Chris (see below), as if
you own the same adult capacity to comprehend details as I do, Chris.

In addition, after I spent a while documenting the answers for you,
Chris - which I expect you to read and understand every cite below
before responding, I posed a question for you in the last line of
this missive. *Please see the last line for a question for you.*

Just as Microsoft doesn't patch Firefox bugs, Android has a system for
updating all the apps (it's part of the Google Play Store setup, Chris).

Just as Microsoft has a monthly Patch Tuesday, Android has a monthly patch
of every single Android device on the Internet (older than version 4.4).

And for platform specific bugs, Samsung and Google have full support for
seven years now - which includes all operating system updates during that
time frame (it could be as many as seven major releases, Chris).

Do you understand any of that, Chris?

>>> Many apps also won't be updated if they're on old versions of android. So
>>> again partially patching android 4.4 is pointless.
>>
>> What you do not understand is the non-Google apps are updated separately.
>
> I absolutely know that, which is exactly the point. Non- google apps refuse
> to update their apps on obsolete versions of android. So Google supposedly
> updating some parts of Android 4.4 is a waste of time.

Again, I will speak with you as if you're an adult, Chris.
Even though this has been explained on this group umpteen times already.

All non-Google apps are updated by their developers, Chris.
Just like non-Apple apps are updated by their developers, Chris.

The non-Google apps are automatically updated, by default, on Android, by
the Google Play Store update mechanism. Since I use a clone of the Google
Play Store (which doesn't require me to create a login on the phone), my
Play Store clone also updates all the non-Google apps automatically.

This is one update mechanism that is exactly the same on *all* common
consumer operating systems, Chris. I'm sure even iOS & macOS do that.

>>>> That's way more updates than Apple gives you Chris.
>>>
>>> I thought more was bad? Every time there's an ios update, you rave on how
>>> bad apple is at testing things. So android updates = good and apple updates
>>> = bad. Got it![1]
>>
>
> Answer the question. Is the frequency of android updates a good thing?

Yet again, I will answer assuming you own adult comprehensive skills.
Even though this has been explained on this group umpteen times already.

What matters is that Apple devices always have more known exploits than
Android and that iPhones always have twice as many zero-day holes, Chris.

What also matters is Apple updates iOS as an "almost monolith", where only
in iOS 16 did Apple begin to start the process of modernizing updates.

Until iOS 16, if a single line of code changed in iOS, Apple had to build
an entire new release stream - which - of course - is an idiotic way of
sending out hotfixes.

Only in iOS 16 did Apple begin to learn how to use modern systems of
patching such that an entire release didn't have to be built if only a
single line of code had to be patched.

I'm sure you know none of this, Chris, yet we've discussed this on this
newsgroup since RSR mechanisms were first advertised back in iOS 15 days.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201224>

>> There's a reason I call you religious zealots ignorant, Chris.
>>
>> a) You show zero evidence you read the cites that badgolferman did
>> b) Worse, you show zero evidence that you understood them.
>
> I have shown you the evidence several times. The fact you chose to snip it
> rather address it, speaks volumes regarding your wilful ignorance.

Chris,

This is why I call you Apple religious zealots what I call you.

I answered all your questions so many times that I can't even count how
many times I've explained on this very newsgroup how Apple is the only
common consumer operating system vendor who does things this strange way,
and as a result, iOS is exploited far more than Android is exploited.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>

There's a reason I dumb answers down most of the time for you Apple zealots
as it doesn't matter how many times I explain how iOS and Android update
differently, you are too ignorant and uneducated to comprehend anything.

Notice badgolferman even took fifty times to understand it, given we've
discussed this topic at least fifty times on this newsgroup, Chris.

But he at least understood it in the end as shown in this very thread that
he read the cites which show Apple has never fully supported more than one
release at any given time - which only Apple does. Nobody else does that.

> The evidence is two-fold: 1) Apple updates older versions of ios very
> regularly, 2) ios support of older hardware is *years* longer than Google
> or Samsung. Their new policies will only come into reality i'm a few years.

Read the references, Chris. These are facts. Not trolls.
<https://www.cisa.gov/known-exploited-vulnerabilities-catalog>
<https://screenrant.com/apple-product-security-update-lifespan/>
<https://support.apple.com/guide/deployment/about-software-updates-depc4c80847a/>
<https://hothardware.com/news/apple-admits-only-fully-patches-security-flaws-in-latest-os-releases>
<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/10/apple-clarifies-security-update-policy-only-the-latest-oses-are-fully-patched/>
<https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/samsung-extends-android-and-security-updates-to-7-years/>
<https://www.tomsguide.com/opinion/google-pixel-8-software-updates>
<https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>

You live in the past. That last thing you heard about Apple was from Jobs.

>>>> The fact is Apple only fully supports one release only.
>>>> No other operating system vendor has support that sucks that bad.
>>>
>>> It's an acceptable model when all supported hardware can run the most OS.
>>> You wouldn't expect anyone to keep a 386 up-to-date? Maybe you would.
>>
>
> Answer the question!

One more time I'm going to respond to you as if you're an adult.
That means you need to read and undersand the response, Chris.

If you can't do that, you don't own adult comprehensive skills, Chris.
Especially for someone who claims to have a PhD in the life sciences.

My Windows desktop was built in 2009 and it's still running a fully
supported operating system that has all known bugs patched, Chris.

My non-Microsoft apps and drivers are fully patched too, since I have
programs that handle the patching for me, Chris, such as UCheck,
VulnDetect, PatchMyPC, WingetUI, UpdateHub, Chocolatey & Scoop
(in addition to Sumo/Dumo which were deprecated late last year).

Looking at my updaters on Windows, here they are in alphabetical order...
C:\> cd C:\software\updaters\.
C:\> mkdir {chocolatey,patchmypc,scoop,ucheck,updatehub,vulndetect,wingetui}

*chocolatey* v2.2.2
"Chocolatey is the package manager for Windows (like apt-get for Windows)"
<https://chocolatey.org/products/#foss>
<https://chocolatey.org/install>
<https://community.chocolatey.org/>
<https://community.chocolatey.org/packages>
<https://community.chocolatey.org/packages/chocolatey>
<https://packages.chocolatey.org/chocolatey.2.2.2.nupkg>
Name: chocolatey.2.2.2.nupkg
Size: 5243268 bytes (5120 KiB)
SHA256: 4E1ACBDAC571719F90B2566566668C448A20074E7C2E3FAA37251C62AF4EFD86

*patchmypc*
"Simplify third-party patching on your home PC"
<https://patchmypc.com/home-updater#download>
<https://patchmypc.com/freeupdater/PatchMyPC.exe>
Name: PatchMyPC.exe
Size: 2596472 bytes (2535 KiB)
SHA256: D5A2DDBA0EE5C577268D69BBC129046D48F36C8306C8A57D4F6B2E2DED193202

*scoop*
"Scoop is a command-line installer for Windows."
<https://github.com/ScoopInstaller/Scoop>
<https://www.makeuseof.com/windows-install-scoop/>
PS:> iwr -useb get.scoop.sh | iex
Running the installer as administrator is disabled by default,
see https://github.com/ScoopInstaller/Install#for-admin for details.
PowerShell requires an execution policy in [Unrestricted, RemoteSigned, ByPass]
to run Scoop. For example, to set the execution policy to 'RemoteSigned'
please run 'Set-ExecutionPolicy RemoteSigned -Scope CurrentUser'.
PS:> Set-ExecutionPolicy RemoteSigned -Scope CurrentUser
Initializing...
Downloading ...
Extracting...
Creating shim...
Adding ~\scoop\shims to your path.
Scoop was installed successfully!
Type 'scoop help' for instructions.
PS:> scoop uninstall scoop
WARN This will uninstall Scoop and all the programs that have been installed with Scoop!
Are you sure? (yN): Y
Removing ~\scoop\shims from your path.
Scoop has been uninstalled.

On 2024-05-20, Andrew <andrew@spam.net> wrote:
> Jolly Roger wrote on 15 May 2024 14:58:37 GMT :
>
>>>>> not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions
>>>>> (for example, macOS 13, iOS 16, and so on).
>>>>
>>>> I also know you both desperately want us to ignore reality: 67% of
>>>> devices run iOS 17, 19% run iOS 16, 8% run iOS 15 = *94%* of
>>>> devices are running the three most recent versions of iOS. Apple is
>>>> regularly patching iOS 17 through iOS 15.
>>>
>>> I know you say that, but the article from Apple says something else.
>>> Not all known security issues are addressed in previous versions
>>
>> That doesn't conflict with what I said. Some security vulnerabilities
>> exist in newer versions of software rather than older versions of
>> software. It is a fact that Apple is patching bugs in iOS 15 and iOS
>> 16 today along with iOS 17. It's also a fact that 94% of devices run
>> iOS 17. It's also a fact that Apple provides major upgrades and minor
>> updates to older iPhone models for a longer period of time than their
>> competitors.
>
> religious zealots

Ad hominem projection.

--
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

On 2024-05-19 23:36, Andrew wrote:
> Chris wrote on Wed, 15 May 2024 17:12:35 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> <https://www.androidheadlines.com/2022/01/google-monthly-changelog-play-system-updates.html>
>>> "Google System updates, meanwhile, are fully automated. Originally
>>> referred to as Project Mainline, these updates fix bugs discovered
>>> in various OS components like device connectivity, location services,
>>> media services, Emergency alerts, and others."
>>
>> But does it patch every exploit in android which is what you claim Apple
>> does do? Having lots of updates on *some* things is pointless.
>
> Chris,
> What you do not understand is every operating system (even Apple nowadays,
> after iOS 16's introduction of RSRs) isn't patched as a single monolith.
>
> The iPhone, up until iOS 16, was patched as a monolith.
> Even now it's still "almost" completely a monolith.

False.