I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
battery to be part of this network.

Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find
My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part
of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to
opt out of a network I don't want?

--
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

Stan Brown wrote:

> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
> battery to be part of this network.

Is it actually live yet?

> Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find
> My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part
> of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to
> opt out of a network I don't want?

I've had the Find My Device app installed for years (before the recent
capabilities)

The settings within the app only control whether my device(s) can be
found, not whether they participate in finding anyone else's devices.

Turn off bluetooth?

On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
<the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:

>I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>battery to be part of this network.

In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
--
RoRo

On 2024-05-29 18:23, Robert Roland wrote:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>> battery to be part of this network.
>
> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

Right.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Am 29.05.24 um 18:23 schrieb Robert Roland:
> On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>> battery to be part of this network.
>
> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

The privacy implications are much more important than the number of
participating devices. I question your assumptions.

If you speak a little bit of German than you can see how easy it is to
turn it on and to turn it off again:

https://www.heise.de/tipps-tricks/Google-Find-my-Device-so-funktioniert-s-6202798.html

or open settings. Go to search function and enter "find my" and enter.
There you are! Deactivate it!

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 29.05.24 um 18:32 schrieb Carlos E.R.:
> On 2024-05-29 18:23, Robert Roland wrote:
>> On Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700, Stan Brown
>> <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>>> battery to be part of this network.
>>
>> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
>> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
>
> Right.

*Nonsense*
It is quite easy to turn it off!

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Robert Roland wrote:

> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.

According to 9to5google, it has three states

Without network:
With network in high-traffic areas only:
With the network in all areas:

<https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>

under
Settings > Security & privacy > Device finders > Find My Device

I don't see those choices, but i can do a manual scan for trackers near me,

Am 29.05.24 um 17:02 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Stan Brown wrote:
>
>> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
>> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
>> battery to be part of this network.
>
> Is it actually live yet?

At least since 2020.

If you speak a little bit of German than you can see how easy it is to
turn it on and to turn it off again:

https://www.heise.de/tipps-tricks/Google-Find-my-Device-so-funktioniert-s-6202798.html

or open settings. Go to search function and enter "find my" and enter.
There you are! Deactivate it!

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> schrieb Andy Burns:
>
>> Is it actually live yet?
>
> At least since 2020.
That's old news, but there's a new finder, only been around (even in
beta) a month or so ...
<https://9to5google.com/guides/find-my-device>

Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
> battery to be part of this network.
>
> Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find
> My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part
> of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to
> opt out of a network I don't want?

I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
network:

<https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Am 29.05.24 um 17:02 schrieb Andy Burns:
> > Stan Brown wrote:
> >
> >> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
> >> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
> >> battery to be part of this network.
> >
> > Is it actually live yet?
>
> At least since 2020.
>
> If you speak a little bit of German than you can see how easy it is to
> turn it on and to turn it off again:
>
> https://www.heise.de/tipps-tricks/Google-Find-my-Device-so-funktioniert-s-6202798.html
>
> or open settings. Go to search function and enter "find my" and enter.
> There you are! Deactivate it!

Jörg,

As the subject says, the is about the Find My Device *network*, which
is a *new* feature, allowing "to locate your devices even if they're
offline".

'Finding your offline devices'
<https://support.google.com/android/answer/14796936?&p=find_offline_devices&rd=1#finding_offline_devices>

Stan Brown wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 07:54:12 -0700 :

> I'm surprised I haven't seen anything about this here. I've been
> googling (!) for a way to opt out of using my bandwidth and my
> battery to be part of this network.
>
> Everything I could find told me to make settings changes in the Find
> My Device app, but I don't have that app. Does that mean I'm not part
> of the network, or do I need to install an app I don't want just to
> opt out of a network I don't want?

Andy Burns is helping you, and he knows more than I do, but I don't
understand fully what you're asking - but I think I do the same thing???

I've long ago opted out of any find-my-device mechanism on my Android 13
Galaxy simply because I'm worried about possible privacy implications.

What did I do?
I simply never opted in (as far as I can recall)...

Searching the Samsung Android settings for "Find My" locates a couple of
activities, one is Samsung specific and the other appears to be Android.

Samsung: Find my mobile
Android: Find my device

Neither one of which works on my device.
<https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg>

Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...

*Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*

Andrew wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 19:47:10 -0000 (UTC) :

> Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
>
> *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*

Ah, I see you're asking about a brand new feature, based on what both Andy
& Frank apprised Joerg of... <https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg>

<https://9to5google.com/guides/find-my-device/>
<https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>
<https://support.google.com/android/answer/14796936?&p=find_offline_devices&rd=1#finding_offline_devices>

Note my "Google Play Services" <com.google.android.gms> is currently
below the beta version (v24.12.14) said to contain the new features.
Version 23.33.16 (190400-560149061) (233316044)

Let's see what this new thing is all about...

"The Find My Device network piggybacks off of all Android phones
with Google Play Services to help users find lost items..."

"In the latest beta version of Google Play Services, v24.12.14,
a new Find your offline devices is appearing in the Settings
menu for some users."

"This leads to another page with options to find devices without
the network, with the network in high-traffic areas, and with
the network all of the time. Users can also turn the feature
off entirely. By default, the option is turned on & to all areas."

"Google's Find My Device network has been slow to come to all
Android devices, but if you buy a supported tracker, it will be
activated during the initial setup phase on your device."

"You can check if you have the network on your device. Open the
Find Device app, tap on your profile picture, and then tap
Find My Device settings. From there, you'll know if you have
the network live if you see Find your offline devices and
the menu it brings"

"If you don't yet have the network, be sure to accept any app
or system updates. Google is rolling this out as a server-side
update, so you shouldn't need any other updates, but it
generally helps to be on the latest available version."

"Android devices participating in the Find My Device network
use Bluetooth to scan for nearby items. If they detect your items,
they securely send the location where they detected the items
to Find My Device. Your Android device does the same to help
others find their lost items when it detects them nearby."

"You can control how your Android device participates in the
network at any time by visiting Find your offline devices
in the Find My Device settings.

Frank Slootweg wrote on 29 May 2024 17:55:05 GMT :

> I got an e-mail (today) from Google, saying the 'feature' will be
> turned on in three days and with instructions how to opt out of the
> network:
>
> <https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>

I'd never get that email from Google, I would think, simply because there
is no Google account set up on my Android phone (although I do have plenty
of Google Accounts - just none are set up explicitly on the Android phone).

However, I did go to the link Frank kindly posted to see what it tells me:
<https://www.google.com/android/find/settings/fmdn>
"No active devices
Before you can use Find My Device,
you must have an active Android device."

Hence, apparently, one way for the OP to opt out of this new bluetooth
feature is, perhaps, to simply not set up an account on their device.

Moving forward toward a better understanding of this new feature, and
thanks to Frank & Andy (and thanks to the OP, Stan), I read their links to
better understand this new find-my feature released, apparently, in the
Google Play Services <com.google.android.gms> beta version (v24.12.14).

When I look in Muntashirakon App Manager, my Google Play Services is
Version 23.33.16 (190400-560149061) (233316044)

I'm curious what version people are on who got the email from Google.

Am 29.05.24 um 19:08 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> schrieb Andy Burns:
>>
>>> Is it actually live yet?
>>
>> At least since 2020.
>
> That's old news, but there's a new finder, only been around (even in
> beta) a month or so ...
>
> <https://9to5google.com/guides/find-my-device>

Opting out of the Find My Device network

Even with Google’s security measures in place and encrypted data
transfers between devices, you still may wish to opt out of the network.
The update brought along options to allow you to do that in a matter of
several steps.

On your Android device, open the Find My Device app.
Tap your profile picture.
Hit FInd My Device settings.
Tap Find your offline devices.
Choose what level of access the app has.

To get there works as said in my first posting.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Am 29.05.24 um 19:00 schrieb Andy Burns:
> Robert Roland wrote:
>
>> In a system like this, the number of participating devices is
>> critically important, so I doubt you will be allowed to turn it off.
>
> According to 9to5google, it has three states
>
> Without network:
> With network in high-traffic areas only:
> With the network in all areas:
>
> <https://9to5google.com/2024/04/03/android-find-my-device-network-live-early/>
>
> under
> Settings > Security & privacy > Device finders > Find My Device
>
> I don't see those choices, but i can do a manual scan for trackers near me,

Opting out is possible. I have just done it.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Andrew wrote:

> Samsung: Find my mobile
> Android: Find my device
>
> Neither one of which works on my device.
> <https://i.postimg.cc/25C1Jppb/findmy.jpg>

That version relies on the device having geolocation enabled, so it
knows where it is, reports that to google so that later you can ask
google where it was when it last reported its own location.

The new version, doesn't rely on that; it relies on other people
constantly listening for your phone saying "help my owner has lost me,
do you know where I am?" Then other people report your phone's location
to google. Even the latest phones will have this 'beacon' running when
they're switched off and a battery that's not even got enough charge to
turn on (but *just* enough to run the bluetooth by itself).

> Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
> *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*

Stan doesn't want to use-up his battery/bandwidth, listening out for
other people's lost devices. Seems like he will be able to opt out.

Andrew wrote:

> I'm curious what version people are on who got the email from Google.

I didn't get the email, most likely because the new feature isn't
enabled in the UK yet, but I do have Play Services 24.20.13, which is
higher than the beta.

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 21:37:04 +0100 :

>> Hence, since I'm not sure I understand your question, may I ask you...
>> *Isn't the way to opt out simply to not opt in?*
>
> Stan doesn't want to use-up his battery/bandwidth, listening out for
> other people's lost devices. Seems like he will be able to opt out.

Thanks for patiently explaining what, at first, I had not understood.
Much appreciated, as there are only a handful of people I can learn from on
this newsgroup, you being one of them (Frank was also helpful in this too).

Seeking to answer Stan's question, the first issue is it apparently uses
bluetooth, so, I would think (hope?) that the bluetooth radio can simply be
turned off.

Yet, maybe not, as the "default" will be for this feature to be turned on,
so, maybe (I don't know yet), the bluetooth radio will be on, but hidden?

Question 1: Does turning off the bluetooth radio disable this feature?

Moving on, a second way to disable this feature, at least from the
perspective of finding your own devices, might be to simply opt out.

Question 2: Does opting out only prevent you from finding your own devices?
(or does opting out also prevent you from finding others' too?)

Moving on further into the realm of opting out, I noticed the feature
requires two things that I don't have (but which most people do have).
a. It (apparently) requires a lock on the device
b. It (apparently) requires an account on the device
I have neither; but I don't dispute that most people have both.

This really brings up question 2 above again, with the difference being if
you can't use this feature (because of lack of an account set up on the
phone, or lack of a password set up on that account set up on the phone),
does that prevent the bluetooth bandwidth of the phone from being used?

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 21:46:50 +0100 :

>> I'm curious what version people are on who got the email from Google.
>
> I didn't get the email, most likely because the new feature isn't
> enabled in the UK yet, but I do have Play Services 24.20.13, which is
> higher than the beta.

Thanks for confirmation that the rollout is (as I think I saw in one of the
previous links) mainly to the USA & Canada at the moment, even as the beta
is in Google Play Services <com.google.android.gms> v24.12.14 beta & above.

Obviously I'll opt out even as the default is to opt in when I do get
updated to that level; but one question I have that hasn't been answered is
whether or not the bluetooth radio needs to "show" that it's turned on.

That is, does anyone know if you simply turn off your bluetooth radio, will
that prevent the related communications with other devices from occurring?

.... uh oh... bad news... I googled before sending this... and found out...

Oh my! Google is rather clever, as can be inferred from this, which implies
you can turn Bluetooth off only temporarily in Android 15. It's pause only!

*Android 15 really doesn't want you to turn off Bluetooth*
<https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-bluetooth-auto-on-3431445/>
"Android 15 will add a new feature that can automatically turn
on Bluetooth the day after you've disabled it.
Your phone's Bluetooth radio is used for several key Android features,
such as Quick Share and Find My Device.
Disabling Bluetooth will slightly improve battery, but the trade-off
is that your device won't be able to contribute to Google's Find My
Device network."

Does anyone have Android 15 who can confirm that Bluetooth is pause only?

Andrew wrote:

> Seeking to answer Stan's question, the first issue is it apparently uses
> bluetooth, so, I would think (hope?) that the bluetooth radio can simply be
> turned off.

That was my first answer here, but maybe not ...

<http://andyburns.uk/misc/findmy-helppage.png>

it could be that when you get an alert, it's too late to turn off
bluetooth as the lost phone has already been locate by yours, or it
could be be that even when bluetooth is "off" it's still listening for
findmydevice beacons ... similar to how wifi being "off" it can still be
used for BSSID location (unless you turn it *really* off).

> Yet, maybe not, as the "default" will be for this feature to be turned on,
> so, maybe (I don't know yet), the bluetooth radio will be on, but hidden?

Suppose we'll have to wait and see ...

This new feature is intended to work with Apple Airtags and those "Tile"
trackers you can put on your keyring or in your wallet.

Andrew wrote:

> Does anyone have Android 15 who can confirm that Bluetooth is pause only?

No, my Pixel5a is too old to get the beta of 15 (not that I'm tempted to
run betas on my main phone). I'm still deciding whether to buy a
Pixel8, an 8a or hold on a few months for a 9Pro.

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 22:13:45 +0100 :

> That was my first answer here, but maybe not ...
>
> <http://andyburns.uk/misc/findmy-helppage.png>

Thanks for that PNG:
"What to do if you get an unknown tracker alert.
If you turn off Bluetooth or Location Services or turn on aeroplane
mode your phone won't prevent the owner of the tracker or device
from finding the location of the tracker."

Yikes!

That implies that the Bluetooth radio is lying when it says it's off.
Does it not?

Andrew wrote:

> "What to do if you get an unknown tracker alert.
> If you turn off Bluetooth or Location Services or turn on aeroplane
> mode your phone won't prevent the owner of the tracker or device
> from finding the location of the tracker."
>
> Yikes!
>
> That implies that the Bluetooth radio is lying when it says it's off.
> Does it not?

Either that, or by the time you've got an alert it's too late to turn
off bluetooth as it's already been detected.

Andy Burns wrote on Wed, 29 May 2024 22:19:29 +0100 :

>> Does anyone have Android 15 who can confirm that Bluetooth is pause only?
>
> No, my Pixel5a is too old to get the beta of 15 (not that I'm tempted to
> run betas on my main phone). I'm still deciding whether to buy a
> Pixel8, an 8a or hold on a few months for a 9Pro.

Like you, my Android update is probably topped out (mine is at Android 13).
However, the new bluetooth find my device works on most Androids.
"The new Find My Device works with devices running Android 9+."

I'm glad Stan asked this question as I was unaware that this existed,
where, googling a bit, I find this description a bit disconcerting...

"thanks to specialized Pixel hardware, Pixel 8 and 8 Pro owners
will also be able to find their devices if they're powered off
or the battery is dead"
<https://blog.google/products/android/android-find-my-device/>

That means, I guess, what we discussed in the past, is that a phone which
is simply indicating that it's off, isn't necessarily off after all.

Likewise, based on your own PNG screenshot, a bluetooth radio which
indicates that it's off many not, in reality, be "really" off...
<http://andyburns.uk/misc/findmy-helppage.png>
(although I saw your response that it may mean it already happened
when the bluetooth radio was on prior and you're just too late turning it
off).

That's going to be the most important question to answer, especially as a
"dead" or "off" phone is still doing the tracking according to the blog.