Dave Royal, 2025-01-04 08:52:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> Wrote in message:
[...]
>> Yes, but you will see if someone has RCS before you send the message
>> since using the phone number of the recipient the device can check, if
>> the recipient is connected to the RCS network services.
>>
> Might the recipient have seen the message in a notification on the
> home screen, but not opened the messages app to read it? I don't
> know - I don't use RCS.

It's the same as with any other app in Android. You get a notification
when a message arrives and how it is displayed depends on your privacy
settings.

In my case I configured my Smartphone so, that I just see that there is
a notification from a specific app, but no content. I have to unlock the
device first to be able to see the notification including text.

Also messages don't count as "read" as long as you do not open them in
the respective app. Just looking at the notification is not enough, even
when the notification also contains some (or all) of the text in the
message.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 13:51:

> On 04.01.25 13:03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-01-04 08:52, Dave Royal wrote:
>>> I don't
>>> know - I don't use RCS.
>>
>> Next time you replace your phone, RCS should be enabled by default :-)
>
> Good to know that we should deactivate Google's wet dream immediately. ;-)

RCS is a standard protocol and not "Google's wet dream".

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

micky, 2025-01-05 02:45:

> In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 3 Jan 2025 23:25:31 +0100, Arno Welzel
> <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>
>> Joe Beanfish, 2025-01-03 14:46:
>>
>>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
>>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
>>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
>>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
>>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
>>>>
>>>> HOw cool is that.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If the recipient doesn't have RCS, there will be no way to know if
>>> they read or not and the circles wouldn't turn blue either way.
>
>> Yes, but you will see if someone has RCS before you send the message
>> since using the phone number of the recipient the device can check, if
>> the recipient is connected to the RCS network services.
>
> I didn't see any indication in advance or after that he didn't have RCS,
[...]

In my Google Messages, which is the default for SMS/RCS on Pixel
devices, the input field for the text displays either "Text message" for
simple SMS or "RCS message" when the recipient is able to recieve RCS
messages.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 12:21:

> On 04.01.25 11:00, s|b wrote:
>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
>>
>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
>>>
>>> HOw cool is that.
>>
>> I turned that off, so you won't see anything when you text me. Turned
>> off the typing indicator as well.
>
> Voilà! Same here.

Well - the typing indicator is understandable. But why disabling RCS
completely? What's wrong with using RCS at all?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 13:51:
>
> > On 04.01.25 13:03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> >> On 2025-01-04 08:52, Dave Royal wrote:
> >>> I don't
> >>> know - I don't use RCS.
> >>
> >> Next time you replace your phone, RCS should be enabled by default :-)
> >
> > Good to know that we should deactivate Google's wet dream immediately. ;-)
>
> RCS is a standard protocol and not "Google's wet dream".

Maybe not, but it's clearly Jörg's nightmare. :-)

On 2025-01-05 12:57, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Carlos E.R., 2025-01-04 02:55:
>
>> On 2025-01-03 23:22, Arno Welzel wrote:
> [...
>>> Messengers on the other hand are mostly proprietary non-federated
>>> services like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema etc. which use servers
>>> of the respective provider (like Meta in the case of WhatsApp) and they
>>> send messages using these servers. You also can not send message from
>>> WhatsApp to Signal or Threema. If you have friends using Threema you
>>> either also need a Threema account or you have to convince your friends
>>> to join the messenger service you use yourself.
>>
>> Whereas SMS is guaranteed to exist on any (mobile) phone.
>
> Yes - but it is not guaranteed any longer to be delivered. At least in
> Germany I experienced it more than once that SMS from one provider to
> another did not get delivered to the recipient. Since providers don't
> earn extra money for SMS any longer, they tend not to care about
> interoperability any longer.

Gosh :-/

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-05 13:04, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 12:21:
>
>> On 04.01.25 11:00, s|b wrote:
>>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
>>>
>>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
>>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
>>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
>>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
>>>>
>>>> HOw cool is that.
>>>
>>> I turned that off, so you won't see anything when you text me. Turned
>>> off the typing indicator as well.
>>
>> Voilà! Same here.
>
> Well - the typing indicator is understandable. But why disabling RCS
> completely? What's wrong with using RCS at all?

Nothing. He just has that mania.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-01-05 13:04, Arno Welzel wrote:
> > Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 12:21:
> >
> >> On 04.01.25 11:00, s|b wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
> >>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
> >>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
> >>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
> >>>>
> >>>> HOw cool is that.
> >>>
> >>> I turned that off, so you won't see anything when you text me. Turned
> >>> off the typing indicator as well.
> >>
> >> Voilà! Same here.
> >
> > Well - the typing indicator is understandable. But why disabling RCS
> > completely? What's wrong with using RCS at all?
>
> Nothing. He just has that mania.

I think 's|b' refers to the read check mark, not RCS itself, as he
says "Turned off the typing indicator as well." If RCS is turned off,
there's no typing indicator to turn off (or on).
>

> --
> Cheers, Carlos.

In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 5 Jan 2025 04:05:56 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

>On 2025-01-05 02:45, micky wrote:
>> In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 3 Jan 2025 23:25:31 +0100, Arno Welzel
>> <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Joe Beanfish, 2025-01-03 14:46:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
>>>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
>>>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
>>>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
>>>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
>>>>>
>>>>> HOw cool is that.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If the recipient doesn't have RCS, there will be no way to know if
>>>> they read or not and the circles wouldn't turn blue either way.
>>
>>> Yes, but you will see if someone has RCS before you send the message
>>> since using the phone number of the recipient the device can check, if
>>> the recipient is connected to the RCS network services.
>>
>> I didn't see any indication in advance or after that he didn't have RCS,
>
>Look carefully. In the message box before you start typing, there is a
>faint lettering that says RCS or SMS/MMS. RCS inside the box, sms above
>the box. The colour is also slightly different.

Everyone I texted lately had within the message box "RCS mess...", but
just now I started to text somone else and it has "Text messa...", Also,
the RCS one has a white text area on a grey background and the SMS one
has a grey text area on a white background! So it seems like the
snowplow guy does have RCS but I still have no blue circles so, it's
impossible for me to believe he didn't read my texts yet so that means
it just doesn't work perfectly . One should not be surprised, LOL .
>
>The google messages app has that feature.
>
>...

micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote:
[...]
> So it seems like the
> snowplow guy does have RCS but I still have no blue circles so, it's
> impossible for me to believe he didn't read my texts yet so that means
> it just doesn't work perfectly . One should not be surprised, LOL .

It *does* work 'perfectly', but it can't do the impossible. I.e. it
can force the recipient to *really* read the text. And, as mentioned,
the opposite, the recipient *can* read the text without you knowing it,
either by reading it in the notification area or by turning off the read
check mark facility.

The only guarantee is the delivery check mark. If that is ticked, the
message arrived at the destination, which is a device, not a person.

On 05.01.25 12:57, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Yes - but it is not guaranteed any longer to be delivered.

It never was. Russian Roulette. RCS is even worse.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 05.01.25 12:57, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Carlos E.R., 2025-01-04 02:55:
>
>> On 2025-01-03 23:22, Arno Welzel wrote:
> [...
>>> Messengers on the other hand are mostly proprietary non-federated
>>> services like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema etc. which use servers
>>> of the respective provider (like Meta in the case of WhatsApp) and they
>>> send messages using these servers. You also can not send message from
>>> WhatsApp to Signal or Threema. If you have friends using Threema you
>>> either also need a Threema account or you have to convince your friends
>>> to join the messenger service you use yourself.
>>
>> Whereas SMS is guaranteed to exist on any (mobile) phone.
>
> Yes - but it is not guaranteed any longer to be delivered. At least in
> Germany I experienced it more than once that SMS from one provider to
> another did not get delivered to the recipient. Since providers don't
> earn extra money for SMS any longer, they tend not to care about
> interoperability any longer.

SMS has never been more important as delivery channel for security
related distribution channels and for businesses. Simply because it is
standardised like email.

For private communication it almost completely lost its importance and
was replaced with Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal,
Threema and iMessage. But certainly not RCS.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 05.01.25 12:57, Arno Welzel wrote:
> > Yes - but it is not guaranteed any longer to be delivered.
>
> It never was. Russian Roulette. RCS is even worse.

'Russian Roulette' with 999 of 1000 chambers *filled* instead of empty
(*if* that 'bad').

On 05.01.25 15:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-01-05 13:04, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 12:21:
>>
>>> On 04.01.25 11:00, s|b wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
>>>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
>>>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
>>>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
>>>>>
>>>>> HOw cool is that.
>>>>
>>>> I turned that off, so you won't see anything when you text me. Turned
>>>> off the typing indicator as well.
>>>
>>> Voilà! Same here.
>>
>> Well - the typing indicator is understandable. But why disabling RCS
>> completely? What's wrong with using RCS at all?
>
> Nothing. He just has that mania.

You seem not to understand all the fallacies of RCS. Especially the
almost toal lack of privacy and security. And that little rest that
remains is in the hands of evil Google.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-05 17:31:

> On 05.01.25 12:57, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> Yes - but it is not guaranteed any longer to be delivered. At least in
>> Germany I experienced it more than once that SMS from one provider to
>> another did not get delivered to the recipient. Since providers don't
>> earn extra money for SMS any longer, they tend not to care about
>> interoperability any longer.
>
> SMS has never been more important as delivery channel for security
> related distribution channels and for businesses. Simply because it is
> standardised like email.

Yes - but this is a different use case.

To get SMS delivered in commercial applications (for example for
confirmation codes or transaction numbers etc.) you do not send a
message from one phone to another, but instead you have a messaging
provider like Brevo who gets messages delivered to the mobile phone
providers directly. This avoids interoperability issues. And yes, this
is not for free of course.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-05 17:34:

> On 05.01.25 15:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-01-05 13:04, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>>> Well - the typing indicator is understandable. But why disabling RCS
>>> completely? What's wrong with using RCS at all?
>>
>> Nothing. He just has that mania.
>
> You seem not to understand all the fallacies of RCS. Especially the
> almost toal lack of privacy and security. And that little rest that
> remains is in the hands of evil Google.

Who ever expected privacy when using SMS or E-Mail without S/MIME or
PGP/GnuPH? Why should this be different with RCS? You also tell people
not to send SMS or e-mails to you, because they are not encrypted?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2025-01-05 16:46, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Sun, 5 Jan 2025 04:05:56 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2025-01-05 02:45, micky wrote:
>>> In comp.mobile.android, on Fri, 3 Jan 2025 23:25:31 +0100, Arno Welzel
>>> <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joe Beanfish, 2025-01-03 14:46:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 02 Jan 2025 22:55:06 -0500, micky wrote:
>>>>>> RCS has this cool service. When you send a text, it shows a little
>>>>>> circle with a check mark in it. When the other party receives the text,
>>>>>> it shows also an overlapping little circle with a check mark. When the
>>>>>> other party READS the text I've sent, it shows both circles in blue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HOw cool is that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the recipient doesn't have RCS, there will be no way to know if
>>>>> they read or not and the circles wouldn't turn blue either way.
>>>
>>>> Yes, but you will see if someone has RCS before you send the message
>>>> since using the phone number of the recipient the device can check, if
>>>> the recipient is connected to the RCS network services.
>>>
>>> I didn't see any indication in advance or after that he didn't have RCS,
>>
>> Look carefully. In the message box before you start typing, there is a
>> faint lettering that says RCS or SMS/MMS. RCS inside the box, sms above
>> the box. The colour is also slightly different.
>
> Everyone I texted lately had within the message box "RCS mess...", but
> just now I started to text somone else and it has "Text messa...", Also,
> the RCS one has a white text area on a grey background and the SMS one
> has a grey text area on a white background! So it seems like the
> snowplow guy does have RCS but I still have no blue circles so, it's
> impossible for me to believe he didn't read my texts yet so that means
> it just doesn't work perfectly . One should not be surprised, LOL .

There is another feature. Long tap on the message you sent. Then tap the
three vertical dot menu on the top, and choose "details". A window pop
up telling the technology used, and the timestamp: sent, received, read.

Of course, the recipient may just disable the timestamping, which is
rude in this circumstance. You should write in the contract that the
other parties must enable RCS with timestamping.

Then maybe he has an iphone and the implementation is lacking.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-05 18:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-05 17:34:
>
>> On 05.01.25 15:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-05 13:04, Arno Welzel wrote:
> [...]
>>>> Well - the typing indicator is understandable. But why disabling RCS
>>>> completely? What's wrong with using RCS at all?
>>>
>>> Nothing. He just has that mania.
>>
>> You seem not to understand all the fallacies of RCS. Especially the
>> almost toal lack of privacy and security. And that little rest that
>> remains is in the hands of evil Google.
>
> Who ever expected privacy when using SMS or E-Mail without S/MIME or
> PGP/GnuPH? Why should this be different with RCS? You also tell people
> not to send SMS or e-mails to you, because they are not encrypted?

They are not encrypted if you are using iphones, but they are on
Android. They refuse to encrypt RCS, because the current technology was
invented by Google instead of being an standard. Google offered to help
Apple, but they refused.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2025-01-05 17:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 05.01.25 12:57, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Carlos E.R., 2025-01-04 02:55:
>>
>>> On 2025-01-03 23:22, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> [...
>>>> Messengers on the other hand are mostly proprietary non-federated
>>>> services like WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, Threema etc. which use servers
>>>> of the respective provider (like Meta in the case of WhatsApp) and they
>>>> send messages using these servers. You also can not send message from
>>>> WhatsApp to Signal or Threema. If you have friends using Threema you
>>>> either also need a Threema account or you have to convince your friends
>>>> to join the messenger service you use yourself.
>>>
>>> Whereas SMS is guaranteed to exist on any (mobile) phone.
>>
>> Yes - but it is not guaranteed any longer to be delivered. At least in
>> Germany I experienced it more than once that SMS from one provider to
>> another did not get delivered to the recipient. Since providers don't
>> earn extra money for SMS any longer, they tend not to care about
>> interoperability any longer.
>
> SMS has never been more important as delivery channel for security
> related distribution channels and for businesses. Simply because it is
> standardised like email.
>
> For private communication it almost completely lost its importance and
> was replaced with Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal,
> Threema and iMessage. But certainly not RCS.

That's not so in NA. You keep forgetting.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 05.01.25 21:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-01-05 17:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> For private communication it almost completely lost its importance and
>> was replaced with Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal,
>> Threema and iMessage. But certainly not RCS.
>
> That's not so in NA. You keep forgetting.

It is so in NA. People below 60 do not use SMS for private communication
anymore and adolescents hardly know what an SMS is. My contacts in the
US of A use all messengers. SMS is out for more than a decade because of
the very limited functionality. Cost is no factor in this equation.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 05.01.25 21:48, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> Google offered to help
> Apple, but they refused.

*ROTFLSTC*! Apple urgently needs help from Google!
Are you sure you understand the mechanics?

At the network interfaces/borders the NSA has real time access to all
information irrespective what Google says.

Proprietary standards are lacking trust at any level.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2025-01-05 22:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 05.01.25 21:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-01-05 17:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> For private communication it almost completely lost its importance and
>>> was replaced with Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal,
>>> Threema and iMessage. But certainly not RCS.
>>
>> That's not so in NA. You keep forgetting.
>
> It is so in NA. People below 60 do not use SMS for private communication
> anymore and adolescents hardly know what an SMS is. My contacts in the
> US of A use all messengers. SMS is out for more than a decade because of
> the very limited functionality. Cost is no factor in this equation.

Sigh.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-01-05 22:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> > On 05.01.25 21:59, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> >> On 2025-01-05 17:31, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> >>> For private communication it almost completely lost its importance and
> >>> was replaced with Facebook Messenger, WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal,
> >>> Threema and iMessage. But certainly not RCS.
> >>
> >> That's not so in NA. You keep forgetting.
> >
> > It is so in NA. People below 60 do not use SMS for private communication
> > anymore and adolescents hardly know what an SMS is. My contacts in the
> > US of A use all messengers. SMS is out for more than a decade because of
> > the very limited functionality. Cost is no factor in this equation.
>
> Sigh.

Indeed. He clearly would refuse to use SMS, so *his* contacts in the
US have no other choice than to use IM apps. That says absolutely
nothing about the 340 or so million other people.

On 5 Jan 2025 14:42:28 GMT, Frank Slootweg wrote:

> I think 's|b' refers to the read check mark, not RCS itself, as he
> says "Turned off the typing indicator as well." If RCS is turned off,
> there's no typing indicator to turn off (or on).

Finally, someone understands! (-;

--
s|b

On Sun, 05 Jan 2025 13:01:29 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:

> Jörg Lorenz, 2025-01-04 13:51:
>
>> On 04.01.25 13:03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-01-04 08:52, Dave Royal wrote:
>>>> I don't
>>>> know - I don't use RCS.
>>>
>>> Next time you replace your phone, RCS should be enabled by default :-)
>>
>> Good to know that we should deactivate Google's wet dream immediately. ;-)
>
> RCS is a standard protocol and not "Google's wet dream".

Whose servers do RCS messages pass thru?