Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:39:51 +0100 :

>> But this thread is about privacy and security and there's nothing less
>> private than logging into the Apple walled garden mothership 24/7/365.
>>
>> *Apple's walled garden _murdered_ privacy*
>
> As did Google and Microsoft.
>
> So go ahead and create a fake account without personal information.

Why do you need a Google Account, Frank?

FACT:
a. Apple's iOS requires an intimate connection to the mothership;
b. Google's Android does not!

That's a huge difference in terms of privacy since an Android phone works
just fine without putting a Google Account on that phone.

An iPhone can't even make phone calls without first connecting to the
mothership and even after that, if you don't put a mothership account on
that iPhone, you can't even install apps so it's even more brain dead.

An Android phone works just fine WITHOUT a mothership account on it.
An iPhone does not.

Big difference in privacy.

Frank Slootweg wrote on 28 Dec 2024 15:01:10 GMT :

>>> *Apple's walled garden _murdered_ privacy*
>>
>> As did Google and Microsoft.
>>
>> So go ahead and create a fake account without personal information.
>
> Well, with some creativity it's still possible to create a Google
> account without any real personal information. (Whether such an account
> is all that useful for using on an Android smartphone/tablet is abother
> matter.)

Why do you need a Google Account set up on a phone in the first place?
There's nothing a phone with that account can do that one w/o it can't.

Details here:
*What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=56585&group=comp.mobile.android#56585>

If anyone can come up with what functionality requires a Google Account set
up on the phone, then they should list that functionality in that thread.

Note: Almost every widely used Google app has an open-source equivalent.
For example, NewPipe===YouTube, Bromite===Chrome, Google Play===Aurora

Andrew wrote on Wed, 1 Jan 2025 02:26:20 -0000 (UTC) :

>> So go ahead and create a fake account without personal information.
>
> Why do you need a Google Account, Frank?

Oops. Arno said that, not Frank.

Anyway, almost nobody is intelligent enough to realize a Google Account is
not necessary on an Android phone for full functionality but an Apple
account is.

That's the major difference between the two platforms in terms of privacy.

1. iOS requires a mothership account for full functionality;
2. Android does not.

Details here:
*What can't you do on Android WITHOUT a Google Account set up in the OS?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=56585&group=comp.mobile.android#56585>

Carlos E.R. wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 15:32:02 +0100 :

> Around here, Open Street Maps are pretty good, and they are gratis. You
> can not say a blanket statement that they are horrendous.

Keeping to the topic of free maps & apps (since I never pay for them)...

You seem to know more than most people about maps, Carlos, and for that I
respect your judgment. Rest assured, I know more than most people do also.

Most people are shockingly ignorant on how bad the OSM map data is.
I'm not.

Where I live, in the Santa Cruz Mountains of California, I've thoroughly
tested *every* free map application known to Android (and I've written
tutorials on all of them - which we can dig up in the Usenet archives).

Suffice to say that OSMAnd (all variants) is a *GREAT* product.
And the concept of Open Street Maps is also a *GREAT* idea.

Of all people, of course I love the *idea* of open street maps, Carlos.

It's just that I've *tested* the accuracy of the Open Street Maps
topological maps inside of OSMAnd~ versus the USGS maps in Avenza.

There's no comparison.
a. In my tests, the open street maps were horrendously inaccurate.
b. The USGS maps were merely inaccurate.

I'd love it not to be that way; but it is what it is (in my tests).

We've discussed this on the sci.geo.satellite-nav newsgroup in gory detail,
and the only people objecting are those who have no access to USGS maps.

Which makes sense since the free OSM maps are the best free maps they have.

Arno Welzel wrote on Sun, 29 Dec 2024 02:51:53 +0100 :

>> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:44:21 +0100 :
>>
>>>> Nope. Try it. Buy a new iPhone. Don't initialize it. Tell us what happens.
>>>
>>> As I said - you can use it for phone calls. You only need to
>>> "initialize" it when you want to use Apple services.
>>
>> No. You're wrong, Arno. Even the Apple trolls don't know this.
>>
>> You GUESSED what I said - you didn't UNDERSTAND what I said.
>> You simply GUESSED. And you guessed wrong, Arno.
>
> No, I tested it with a real device.

It's impossible to initialize/activate an iOS device without connecting to
Apple's mothership mainframe servers, Arno.

Think about that fact before you make statements like that please.

Remember, I know how iOS and Android work. You do not.

On 2024-12-31 18:50, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Sun, 29 Dec 2024 02:51:53 +0100 :
>
>>> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:44:21 +0100 :
>>>
>>>>> Nope. Try it. Buy a new iPhone. Don't initialize it. Tell us what
>>>>> happens.
>>>>
>>>> As I said - you can use it for phone calls. You only need to
>>>> "initialize" it when you want to use Apple services.
>>>
>>> No. You're wrong, Arno. Even the Apple trolls don't know this.
>>>
>>> You GUESSED what I said - you didn't UNDERSTAND what I said.
>>> You simply GUESSED. And you guessed wrong, Arno.
>>
>> No, I tested it with a real device.
>
> It's impossible to initialize/activate an iOS device without connecting to
> Apple's mothership mainframe servers, Arno.
>

Which is not remotely the same thing as being connected "24/7/365"...

> Think about that fact before you make statements like that please.
>
> Remember, I know how iOS and Android work. You do not.

On 2024-12-31 18:26, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:39:51 +0100 :
>
>>> But this thread is about privacy and security and there's nothing less
>>> private than logging into the Apple walled garden mothership 24/7/365.
>>>
>>>    *Apple's walled garden _murdered_ privacy*
>>
>> As did Google and Microsoft.
>>
>> So go ahead and create a fake account without personal information.
>
> Why do you need a Google Account, Frank?
>
> FACT:
> a. Apple's iOS requires an intimate connection to the mothership;
> b. Google's Android does not!
>
> That's a huge difference in terms of privacy since an Android phone works
> just fine without putting a Google Account on that phone.
>
> An iPhone can't even make phone calls without first connecting to the
> mothership and even after that, if you don't put a mothership account on
> that iPhone, you can't even install apps so it's even more brain dead.
>
> An Android phone works just fine WITHOUT a mothership account on it.
> An iPhone does not.
>
> Big difference in privacy.

Except for downloading apps, you never need to use your Apple Account.

Andrew, 2025-01-01 03:02:

[...]
> The main reason for the "absurdity" of this discussion is that it's clear
> neither you nor Arno understand how Android works (since an Android phone
> does everything without a Google Account being set up on that phone).

I *do* understand how Android works! And yes, I *know* that you don't
need a Google account to use Android!

I only explained, that there are apps(!) which need a Google account and
in that case it is completely irrelevant, if the OS itself needs that or
not!

You can not use Google Wallet without an account for example and there
are many other usecases where normal users just rely on Google services.
Not everybody is able to set up DAVx5 and host a server for
CardDAV/CalDAV to make sure adressbook and calendar are backed up and
can be used on other devices too.

> Only one out of a million people understand how Android works, Frank.

No - even fewer people do so. You won't find more than a few tenthousand
people on the world who really understand how Android works, since most
people just *use* it and don't know anything at all about application
manifests, permissions, sandboxing and so on.

But they don't care. People use devices and don't care about the
requirements. People use services by Apple, Google, Microsoft, Meta and
so on - and they don't care!

[...]
> Neither you nor Arno have any idea whatsoever how Android works, Frank.

I've been publishing apps for Android for more than 10 years now without
knowning how Android works? You are really funny.

> Every single app on the Google Play Store repository is available to the
> Auroa app (which does NOT require a Google Account on the phone) Frank.
>
> What's absurd is neither you nor Arno have any idea what an Android phone
> can do WITHOUT having a Google Account on that phone.

I know that. I *use* Android devices without any Google account. But you
did not understand one single word I word - nothing at all.

> I haven't had a Google Account on my Android phones for many years, Frank.
> And I can do more than you can do with that phone, Frank.

And I am an Android developer since 2008. What is your professional
expertise here besides your private experiences?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2025-01-01 03:18:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:41:24 +0100 :
>
>>>> I suspect it's part of Apple's plan to hinder re-use on another device.
>>>
>>> So you mean "theft"?
>>
>> Yes, he must refer to theft. Because re-using an iOS device is
>> absolutely no problem at all - if the previous owner unregistered the
>> device and thus made it possible for the new owner to set it up for his
>> own account.
>
> Arno's statement is so absurd - it shows he has zero iOS understanding.
> Neither Arno nor the IQ 40 Alan Baker understands how APKs & IPAs work.

No? What about this - please explain:

<https://f-droid.org/en/packages/de.arnowelzel.android.periodical/>

How can it be, that I publish apps if I don't know, how that works?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2025-01-01 03:34:

> Andrew wrote on Wed, 1 Jan 2025 02:26:20 -0000 (UTC) :
>
>>> So go ahead and create a fake account without personal information.
>>
>> Why do you need a Google Account, Frank?
>
> Oops. Arno said that, not Frank.

No, I didn't! I said, for some APPS(!) you need a Google account.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2025-01-01 03:50:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sun, 29 Dec 2024 02:51:53 +0100 :
>
>>> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 28 Dec 2024 12:44:21 +0100 :
>>>
>>>>> Nope. Try it. Buy a new iPhone. Don't initialize it. Tell us what happens.
>>>>
>>>> As I said - you can use it for phone calls. You only need to
>>>> "initialize" it when you want to use Apple services.
>>>
>>> No. You're wrong, Arno. Even the Apple trolls don't know this.
>>>
>>> You GUESSED what I said - you didn't UNDERSTAND what I said.
>>> You simply GUESSED. And you guessed wrong, Arno.
>>
>> No, I tested it with a real device.
>
> It's impossible to initialize/activate an iOS device without connecting to
> Apple's mothership mainframe servers, Arno.
>
> Think about that fact before you make statements like that please.

I did.

> Remember, I know how iOS and Android work. You do not.

I do.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2025-01-01 14:15, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Andrew, 2025-01-01 03:02:
>
> [...]
>> The main reason for the "absurdity" of this discussion is that it's clear
>> neither you nor Arno understand how Android works (since an Android phone
>> does everything without a Google Account being set up on that phone).
>
> I *do* understand how Android works! And yes, I *know* that you don't
> need a Google account to use Android!
>
> I only explained, that there are apps(!) which need a Google account and
> in that case it is completely irrelevant, if the OS itself needs that or
> not!
>
> You can not use Google Wallet without an account for example and there
> are many other usecases where normal users just rely on Google services.
> Not everybody is able to set up DAVx5 and host a server for
> CardDAV/CalDAV to make sure adressbook and calendar are backed up and
> can be used on other devices too.
>
>> Only one out of a million people understand how Android works, Frank.
>
> No - even fewer people do so. You won't find more than a few tenthousand
> people on the world who really understand how Android works, since most
> people just *use* it and don't know anything at all about application
> manifests, permissions, sandboxing and so on.
>
> But they don't care. People use devices and don't care about the
> requirements. People use services by Apple, Google, Microsoft, Meta and
> so on - and they don't care!
>
> [...]
>> Neither you nor Arno have any idea whatsoever how Android works, Frank.
>
> I've been publishing apps for Android for more than 10 years now without
> knowning how Android works? You are really funny.
>
>> Every single app on the Google Play Store repository is available to the
>> Auroa app (which does NOT require a Google Account on the phone) Frank.
>>
>> What's absurd is neither you nor Arno have any idea what an Android phone
>> can do WITHOUT having a Google Account on that phone.
>
> I know that. I *use* Android devices without any Google account. But you
> did not understand one single word I word - nothing at all.
>
>> I haven't had a Google Account on my Android phones for many years, Frank.
>> And I can do more than you can do with that phone, Frank.
>
> And I am an Android developer since 2008. What is your professional
> expertise here besides your private experiences?
>

Andrew/Arlen will be saying in a post next week that you "admitted to
never using Android".

Kind of like he ignores the proof that I am a racing driver and
certified race driving instructor.

:-)