On 2024-12-21 08:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan, 2024-12-20 18:02:
>
>> On 2024-12-20 01:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Alan, 2024-12-19 04:22:
>>>
>>>> On 2024-12-18 18:56, Andrew wrote:
>>> [...]
>>>>> We all know from Apple's history that the last thing Apple wants is
>>>>> interoperability with other platforms (the proof is rampant everywhere).
>>>>
>>>> And yet you won't provide it.
>>>>
>>>> Weird.
>>>
>>> Is iMessage or FaceTime available for Android or Windows or at least
>>> compatible with anything else?
>> iMessage let's you send and receive SMS messages.
>
> I would not call this "compatible" since you can use it in the same way
> as with other Apple users.
>

Messages is compatible with any platform that sends and receives SMS
messages.

Using <news:lso7ksFo80oU6@mid.individual.net>, Arno Welzel wrote:

> And if you don't need the walled garden all the time, then you don't
> need to be logged in all the time. So what?

Nobody on iOS is NOT logged into Apple's servers 100% of the time.
100% of iOS users are logged into Apple servers 100% of the time.

Which is why Android (not iOS) has by far the word market share.
That's what

The iPhone is strategically designed from the start to be a dumb terminal.
It doesn't do anything useful that people like without Apple's servers.

Only people in rich countries can afford to be always logged into mainframe
servers just to get the device to do the basic things that people like.

Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:10:31 +0100 :

>> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
>> That's "constant Internet access".
>
> Maybe you are - but I am not. My employers iPhone SE is *not* always
> logged in since I sometimes have it with me at places where there is no
> network available. And the device still works and still can be used as
> camera, music player, calculator etc..

Nope. You're wrong. You know nothing about how iOS works.
But see for yourself BEFORE you respond please.

Try this BEFORE you respond please.

1. Log out of the iCloud, Facetime, Messages, AppStore, etc.
2. Then try to do something you like in the walled garden.

You can't.

Worse, the iPad will nag you until the end of time to log back in.
Ask me how I know this?

Eventually, after two years (on two different iPads) Apple will brick the
account (again, ask me how I know this).

Then you have to go to the Apple store and present your government ID.
Only then will Apple unlock your account that you didn't log into.

Ask me how I know all this.

You know NOTHING whatsoever about this.
Because you never tried logging OUT of Apple's accounts.

Please TRY IT FIRST before you respond.
I have so you can do it too since you're smarter than I am Arno.

1. Apple "ID Verification" prompts come up ten, twenty or more times a day.
<https://i.postimg.cc/LXzB3Lc0/appleid01.jpg>
2. Apple "Sign-in to iCloud" prompts come up a dozen or more times a day.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Y9kkj19v/appleid12.jpg>
3. Apple won't let you sign in even with the _correct_ login & password.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8zSvshQf/appleid04.jpg>
4. The Apple web site is so poorly designed it doesn't even tell you why.
<https://i.postimg.cc/SKGfmgnK/appleid05.jpg>
5. Eventually, as it did with one of my iPads already, Apple destroys it.
<https://i.postimg.cc/g008YhxP/appleid02.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
6. On my 2nd iPad, the Apple apps stop working (but everything else works!)
<https://i.postimg.cc/hhFNJ5mq/appleid010.jpg>
7. Every single day, many times a day, you're confronted with tracking crap
such as this "Some account services require you to sign in again"
<https://i.postimg.cc/nrFHSvby/appleid11.jpg>
8. Interestingly, you can update your iOS (which I almost never do) as
shown
here where I updated this week from iOS 13 to iOS 15 (and it let me).
<https://i.postimg.cc/nLjqk2HD/osupdate03.jpg>
9. And you can wipe out your Siri recordings (due to the recent zero-day).
<https://i.postimg.cc/sfZ0XP71/osupdate02.jpg>
10. Yet Apple tracking servers still require "Apple ID Verification"
<https://i.postimg.cc/gj0r2cBP/osupdate01.jpg>
11. And, you can install an app, but if you delete it, you can't
re-install.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bJPKDSZ1/osupdate04.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZR5mZ287/appleid07.jpg>
12. In the end, if you attempt that forced validation on VPN, Apple
unilaterally destroys your investment by locking you out of it forever!
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>
13. All because Apple tracking servers _require_ periodic ID verification.
<https://i.postimg.cc/8k3GQyj4/appleid09.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/q75t7MSk/appleid03.jpg>

If you don't even *L@@K* at that proof, then you will continue to know
absolutely nothing about how iOS actually works, Arno.

Nothing works on iOS that you like once you log out of Apple's accounts.

On 2024-12-21 12:35, david wrote:
> Using <news:lso7ksFo80oU6@mid.individual.net>, Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> And if you don't need the walled garden all the time, then you don't
>> need to be logged in all the time. So what?
>
> Nobody on iOS is NOT logged into Apple's servers 100% of the time.
> 100% of iOS users are logged into Apple servers 100% of the time.

Again:

There is a difference between what CAN be done and what MOST people
choose to do...

....Arlen.

>
> Which is why Android (not iOS) has by far the word market share.
> That's what
>
> The iPhone is strategically designed from the start to be a dumb terminal.
> It doesn't do anything useful that people like without Apple's servers.

I've challenged you to present something I can't do on an iPhone when
I'm definitely disconnected from Apple's servers...

....but you don't appear to be able to think of one.

Aside from getting apps from the iOS app store of course.

But you can USE those apps without being logged in.

>
> Only people in rich countries can afford to be always logged into mainframe
> servers just to get the device to do the basic things that people like.

Ah, and now we introduce another straw man!

Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:09:15 +0100 :

>> Your iOS device does almost nothing without logging into Apple's servers.
>
> "Almost nothing"?

Arno - I thought you knew something about Android.
I thought you were smart. Not stupid.

I even thought you knew more about Android than I do, Arno.
But I must have been wrong.

We're talking about the "walled garden" Arno. Even you should know that.

> Well - calling people on the phone is possible, taking
> pictures, listening to music stored on the device, checking the current
> time, using the calculator and *all* other apps which don't need an
> active internet connection to work...

Try logging out of your Apple account and then sharing files across devices
on your own LAN, Arno. Do that please BEFORE you respond 'cuz you can't.

> I would not call this "almost
> nothing". It's not less as with Android devices when you don't have
> internet access.

We're talking about the "walled garden" things you like, Arno.

Log out of your many Apple accounts (iCloud, Messages, FaceTime, AppStore,
etc.) and then *try* all those walled-garden things you love to do.

You can't do them without being logged in 24/7/365 Arno.

>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need to log
>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).
>
> Installing apps and using Apple services is just a part of the device
> features. You also don't need Google services all the time to use an
> Android device.

C'mon. Even you, Arno, mut know that you do NOT need to have a Google
Account set up on Android to install apps and use Google Services.

If you don't know something that simple, then I gave you more credit for
understanding how Android works than I should have since you're a smarter
man than I am (or so I had thought).

What makes you think I need to add a Google Account to my phone, for
example, to check my email (even if it's a Google Email)? I don't.

What makes you think I need to add a Google Account on my phone to download
apps (even apps off the Google Play store)? I don't.

C'mon Arno. You're not that ignorant.
You must know that you *must* set up an iPhone with an account, right?

And you must know that no other operating system (except Apple's) requires
that account just to get the phone to do *anything* (yes, even make
calls!).

You can't be *that* ignorant of either Android or iOS, can you?

> But without *any* network connection *all* smartphones
> have limited functionality.

C'mon Arno. That's something so stupid that only Alan Baker would be
confused about the difference between being on the Internet and being
logged into a mothership mainframe server.

How can you NOT understand something so basic, Arno?

I thought you were smart, Arno?
I thought you knew the absolute basics Arno?

You don't seem to understand that being on the Internet is not the same
thing as logging into a mothership mainframe server account, Arno.

Look up the difference. Use something called "google" or "duckduckgo".
Ask "What is the difference between the Internet and logging into a
mainframe account on a mothership server on the Internet" for example.

Do that lookup BEFORE you respond Arno.

Because you sound stupid claiming that the Internet is the same thing as
logging into a mothership mainframe server account.

Every claim you made in this post was that of a stupid ignorant person,
Arno.

> So why do you consider this "almost nothing"
> when it comes to Apple devices?

Do you even realize that you can't even "make calls" on an iPhone until you
get on the Internet and log into Apple's mainframe servers, Arno?

Seriously.
Everything you've said shows you know NOTHING about iOS.

> Do Android devices also do "almost
> nothing" without internet connection and access to Google services, just
> because you can't access Google Play?

Arno. Seriously. I thought you knew something about Android.
Yet you know NOTHING about Android.

I don't have a Google Account set up on my Android phone, Arno.
I've *never* had a Google Account set up on my Android phone, Arno.

And I can do more than most people can do on my Android phone, Arno.
For you to claim otherwise simply means you know NOTHING about Android.

Stop making idiotic claims.

Being on the Internet is NOT the same thing as logging into Google
accounts. For you to claim they're equivalent is absurd, Arno.

Learn the DIFFERENCE between these two things BEFORE you respond, Arno.
1. The Internet
2. Logging into an account on the Internet

Why can't you discern there is a difference between those two things?
Talking to you is like talking to Alan Baker.

I thought you were smarter than he.

In your response, please explain what YOU THINK is the difference between
logging into a specific account on the Internet, and the Internet itself.

Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:05:12 +0100 :

>> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
>> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the Internet?
>
> Is "send and receive group facetime messages" neccessary to do phone
> calls, taking pictures or listening to music stored on the device?

Arno,

Please tell all of us how you can do *anything* on the iOS device *without*
logging into the Internet to *create* an Apple account on Apple's servers.

C'mon... tell us.

HINT: You can't even make a phone call without doing that first, Arno.

Note that if you don't know this simple fact, which everyone knows by the
way, then it means you know absolutely NOTHING about how iOS devices work.

Discussing such basics with you is absurd because you sound like Alan Baker
who also knows absolutely nothing about how anything works, Arno.

Please stop saying absurd claims that only people like Alan Baker say.

Log out of all your Apple accounts, Arno - and then you tell us all what
you can and cannot do. Do not respond until AFTER you've logged out of
them!

Otherwise you know NOTHING about how iOS works, Arno.
Only Apple requires you to create an account to do the simplest of things.

HINT:
a. Take a new iPhone
b. Do NOT create an Apple Account on it
c. Try to make phone calls

Tell us all how well that works out for you, Arno.

On 2024-12-21 13:04, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:05:12 +0100 :
>
>>> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
>>> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the
>>> Internet?
>>
>> Is "send and receive group facetime messages" neccessary to do phone
>> calls, taking pictures or listening to music stored on the device?
>
> Arno,
>
> Please tell all of us how you can do *anything* on the iOS device *without*
> logging into the Internet to *create* an Apple account on Apple's servers.
>
> C'mon... tell us.
>
> HINT: You can't even make a phone call without doing that first, Arno.

You can certainly make phone calls on an iPhone without being logged
into your Apple account.

>
> Note that if you don't know this simple fact, which everyone knows by the
> way, then it means you know absolutely NOTHING about how iOS devices work.
>
> Discussing such basics with you is absurd because you sound like Alan Baker
> who also knows absolutely nothing about how anything works, Arno.
>
> Please stop saying absurd claims that only people like Alan Baker say.
> Log out of all your Apple accounts, Arno - and then you tell us all what
> you can and cannot do. Do not respond until AFTER you've logged out of
> them!

Tell me something I supposedly can't do.

I'll grant you downloading apps. But once downloaded they work fine
whether you're logged into your Apple account or not.

>
> Otherwise you know NOTHING about how iOS works, Arno.
> Only Apple requires you to create an account to do the simplest of things.
>
> HINT: a. Take a new iPhone
> b. Do NOT create an Apple Account on it
> c. Try to make phone calls
>
> Tell us all how well that works out for you, Arno.

<https://www.imobie.com/iphone-unlocker/set-up-iphone-without-apple-id.htm>

Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:04:26 +0100 :

>> The iPhone is a dumb terminal - devoid of functionality if you don't log
>> into the Apple mainframe servers 24/7/365 just for basic functionality.
>
> I got an iPhone SE from my employer and can't reproduce this.
>
> Even without internet and without connection to Apple it still works. I
> can take pictures with it, listen to music which is stored on the device
> and even call people if I only have GSM without internet.
>
> So what exactly do you mean?

Arno,

Do you know that I've been using iOS & Android for many years?
Do you know that I *test* what they can and cannot do without accounts?

If not, then you need to TRY it yourself.
Let's take the simplest case possible, Arno.

a. Buy a new iOS device
b. Do NOT create a mothership account on it (i.e., Apple)
c. Tell us all what that device can do and cannot do

Then let's repeat that simplest case, Arno, for all other OSs.
a. Buy a new Windows or Android device
b. Do NOT create a mothership account on it (i.e., MS or Google)
c. Tell us all what that device can do and cannot do

Do you see a difference?
Is it astoundingly huge?

Why?

HINT: The iOS device can't do *anything* without that mothership account.
Which is why iOS owners are logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 forever.

Yes. Even you.

Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:12:18 +0100 :

>>> For the record, my iPhone continues to work whether I'm connected to the
>>> internet or not.
>>
>> How do you install apps without logging into Apple's app store on the net?
>
> By using alternative app stores. Even Apple *must* provide this nowadays
> in some regions.

Yes. Only recently. And there are almost no apps. But this is correct
because the EU forced Apple to care about its customers for once.

But even so, without initializing an Apple device on Apple's servers, it
can't do anything - not even make phone calls.

Don't believe me?
Try it.

a. Buy a brand new iPhone & pop a valid known-working SIM card in it
b. DO NOT EVER LOG INTO ANY APPLE SERVER
c. Try to do something simple - anything - like make a phone call

What do you think happens?

On 2024-12-21 13:14, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:12:18 +0100 :
>
>>>> For the record, my iPhone continues to work whether I'm connected to
>>>> the internet or not.
>>>
>>> How do you install apps without logging into Apple's app store on the
>>> net?
>>
>> By using alternative app stores. Even Apple *must* provide this nowadays
>> in some regions.
>
> Yes. Only recently. And there are almost no apps. But this is correct
> because the EU forced Apple to care about its customers for once.
>
> But even so, without initializing an Apple device on Apple's servers, it
> can't do anything - not even make phone calls.
>
> Don't believe me?
> Try it.
>
> a. Buy a brand new iPhone & pop a valid known-working SIM card in it
> b. DO NOT EVER LOG INTO ANY APPLE SERVER
> c. Try to do something simple - anything - like make a phone call
>
> What do you think happens?

'Finally, click on Don’t use to confirm, and you will be able to set up
iPhone without Apple ID.'

<https://www.imobie.com/iphone-unlocker/set-up-iphone-without-apple-id.htm>

On 2024-12-21 13:10, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:04:26 +0100 :
>
>>> The iPhone is a dumb terminal - devoid of functionality if you don't log
>>> into the Apple mainframe servers 24/7/365 just for basic functionality.
>>
>> I got an iPhone SE from my employer and can't reproduce this.
>>
>> Even without internet and without connection to Apple it still works. I
>> can take pictures with it, listen to music which is stored on the device
>> and even call people if I only have GSM without internet.
>>
>> So what exactly do you mean?
>
> Arno,
>
> Do you know that I've been using iOS & Android for many years?
> Do you know that I *test* what they can and cannot do without accounts?
>
> If not, then you need to TRY it yourself.
> Let's take the simplest case possible, Arno.
>
> a. Buy a new iOS device
> b. Do NOT create a mothership account on it (i.e., Apple)
> c. Tell us all what that device can do and cannot do
>
> Then let's repeat that simplest case, Arno, for all other OSs.
> a. Buy a new Windows or Android device
> b. Do NOT create a mothership account on it (i.e., MS or Google)
> c. Tell us all what that device can do and cannot do
>
> Do you see a difference?
> Is it astoundingly huge?
>
> Why?
>
> HINT: The iOS device can't do *anything* without that mothership account.
> Which is why iOS owners are logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 forever.
>
> Yes. Even you.

I have an iPad.

I've just logged out of my Apple Account (formerly called "AppleID").

It seems to be working fine.

:-)

On 21.12.24 17:13, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-21 08:53:
>
>> On 18.12.24 09:15, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-17 23:22, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> No. Proprietary and encryption are NOT a contradiction.
>>>
>>> Don't argue from false positions.
>>
>> You do not understand the concept of asymmetric secure end-to-end
>> encryption. Those who own the service provide the encryption? Seriously?
>> Naive to the max.
>
> You know the meaning of end-to-end-encryption?

Very stupid question. In this case it is a Zero-Trust issue.

--
"Ave! Morituri te salutant!"

On 22.12.24 08:59, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 21.12.24 17:13, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-21 08:53:
>>
>>> On 18.12.24 09:15, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-17 23:22, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> No. Proprietary and encryption are NOT a contradiction.
>>>>
>>>> Don't argue from false positions.
>>>
>>> You do not understand the concept of asymmetric secure end-to-end
>>> encryption. Those who own the service provide the encryption? Seriously?
>>> Naive to the max.
>>
>> You know the meaning of end-to-end-encryption?
>
> Very stupid question. In this case it is a Zero-Trust issue.

In the developed world are not many encryption-users that would trust
either Google or Microsoft (there are more). It is not advisable to use
an encryption chain where one commercial company has the control over
the chain. Particularly when the company is located/headquartered in
Trumpistan.

You know what a "Masterkey" or a "Backdoor" is?

--
"Ave! Morituri te salutant!"

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
>
> You know what a "Masterkey" or a "Backdoor" is?
>
>

Aren’t those terms used in relation to a chastity belt?

On 2024-12-21 21:35, david wrote:
> Using <news:lso7ksFo80oU6@mid.individual.net>, Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> And if you don't need the walled garden all the time, then you don't
>> need to be logged in all the time. So what?
>
> Nobody on iOS is NOT logged into Apple's servers 100% of the time.
> 100% of iOS users are logged into Apple servers 100% of the time.
>
> Which is why Android (not iOS) has by far the word market share.
> That's what

Which is why...? Sorry, there is no logic in that statement.

>
> The iPhone is strategically designed from the start to be a dumb terminal.
> It doesn't do anything useful that people like without Apple's servers.
>
> Only people in rich countries can afford to be always logged into mainframe
> servers just to get the device to do the basic things that people like.

Arlen? Is that you?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On Tue, 17 Dec 2024 10:31:11 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> I thought we already knew that cross-ecosystem was not encrypted?

No worries then. (Reading this from comp.mobile.android.)

--
s|b

On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 00:35:16 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:

> On the other hand - messengers with end-to-end-encryption for iOS and
> Android exist.

<https://signal.org/>

--
s|b

On 22.12.24 16:50, s|b wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 00:35:16 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> On the other hand - messengers with end-to-end-encryption for iOS and
>> Android exist.
>
> <https://signal.org/>

Signal and Threema: https://threema.ch/en

Threema is the only messenger being accepted for public institutions in
Switzerland. Particularly for law enforcement, military use and public
education.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 22.12.24 16:50, s|b wrote:
>> On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 00:35:16 +0100, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>
>>> On the other hand - messengers with end-to-end-encryption for iOS and
>>> Android exist.
>>
>> <https://signal.org/>
>
> Signal and Threema: https://threema.ch/en
>
> Threema is the only messenger being accepted for public institutions in
> Switzerland. Particularly for law enforcement, military use and public
> education.
>
>

Couldn’t they have come up with an easier name to pronounce than that?

Alan, 2024-12-21 17:31:

> On 2024-12-21 08:00, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Alan, 2024-12-20 18:02:
>>
>>> On 2024-12-20 01:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>>> Alan, 2024-12-19 04:22:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2024-12-18 18:56, Andrew wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> We all know from Apple's history that the last thing Apple wants is
>>>>>> interoperability with other platforms (the proof is rampant everywhere).
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet you won't provide it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Weird.
>>>>
>>>> Is iMessage or FaceTime available for Android or Windows or at least
>>>> compatible with anything else?
>>> iMessage let's you send and receive SMS messages.
>>
>> I would not call this "compatible" since you can use it in the same way
>> as with other Apple users.
>>
>
> Messages is compatible with any platform that sends and receives SMS
> messages.

Yes, it is able to send and receive SMS - nothing else. In this meaning,
iPhones are compatible to nearly every other computer or phone in the
world, since some kind of data exchange or phone calls is mostly possible.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-12-21 22:10:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:04:26 +0100 :
>
>>> The iPhone is a dumb terminal - devoid of functionality if you don't log
>>> into the Apple mainframe servers 24/7/365 just for basic functionality.
>>
>> I got an iPhone SE from my employer and can't reproduce this.
>>
>> Even without internet and without connection to Apple it still works. I
>> can take pictures with it, listen to music which is stored on the device
>> and even call people if I only have GSM without internet.
>>
>> So what exactly do you mean?
>
> Arno,
>
> Do you know that I've been using iOS & Android for many years?
> Do you know that I *test* what they can and cannot do without accounts?

So what? I talk about using the device when not having an active
connection to Apple servers and not about using it without setting up an
Apple account at all.

> If not, then you need to TRY it yourself.
> Let's take the simplest case possible, Arno.
>
> a. Buy a new iOS device
> b. Do NOT create a mothership account on it (i.e., Apple)
> c. Tell us all what that device can do and cannot do

JFTR: I got from my employer was already configured and I do *not* have
an Apple account and I can *not* use stuff like the Apple App store. So
Apple seems to provide options for companies to give their employees
devices but without the need for an Apple account on the device itself.

> Then let's repeat that simplest case, Arno, for all other OSs.
> a. Buy a new Windows or Android device
> b. Do NOT create a mothership account on it (i.e., MS or Google)

Which is not possible in Windows 11 nowadays without any "hacks". The
default is, that Windows won't install without a "mothership account".

> c. Tell us all what that device can do and cannot do
>
> Do you see a difference?
> Is it astoundingly huge?

For Windows 11: no.

> Why?

Because Apple wants it this way. If you don't like that, don't use the
devices - problem solved.

> HINT: The iOS device can't do *anything* without that mothership account.
> Which is why iOS owners are logged into Apple servers 24/7/365 forever.

It depends what you define as "logged into Apple servers".

> Yes. Even you.

No, not me personally - see above, I don't have a personal Apple account
on the device which I got from my employer and can't even install apps
there.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

david, 2024-12-21 21:35:

> Using <news:lso7ksFo80oU6@mid.individual.net>, Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> And if you don't need the walled garden all the time, then you don't
>> need to be logged in all the time. So what?
>
> Nobody on iOS is NOT logged into Apple's servers 100% of the time.
> 100% of iOS users are logged into Apple servers 100% of the time.
>
> Which is why Android (not iOS) has by far the word market share.
> That's what

No, Android has the market share because the devices are damn cheap. If
iPhones would also be available for less than 100 USD like many cheap
Android devices, than the market share would be much higher.

Most people don't care for privacy, really. Only money is important.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-12-21 21:41:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:10:31 +0100 :
>
>>> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
>>> That's "constant Internet access".
>>
>> Maybe you are - but I am not. My employers iPhone SE is *not* always
>> logged in since I sometimes have it with me at places where there is no
>> network available. And the device still works and still can be used as
>> camera, music player, calculator etc..
>
> Nope. You're wrong. You know nothing about how iOS works.
> But see for yourself BEFORE you respond please.
>
> Try this BEFORE you respond please.
>
> 1. Log out of the iCloud, Facetime, Messages, AppStore, etc.

I can't. The device is completely controlled by my employer. I don't
have access to the AppStore anyway.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-12-21 21:56:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:09:15 +0100 :
>
>>> Your iOS device does almost nothing without logging into Apple's servers.
>>
>> "Almost nothing"?
>
> Arno - I thought you knew something about Android.
> I thought you were smart. Not stupid.
>
> I even thought you knew more about Android than I do, Arno.
> But I must have been wrong.

No, you just don't tell what you *REALLY* mean.

If you want to express "one needs to create an Apple account to use an
iPhone" than say it! And don't say, that an iPhone has to PHYSICALLY
CONNECTED to the internet all the time!

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-12-21 22:04:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Sat, 21 Dec 2024 17:05:12 +0100 :
>
>>> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
>>> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the Internet?
>>
>> Is "send and receive group facetime messages" neccessary to do phone
>> calls, taking pictures or listening to music stored on the device?
>
> Arno,
>
> Please tell all of us how you can do *anything* on the iOS device *without*
> logging into the Internet to *create* an Apple account on Apple's servers.

I am not talking about "logging in" anywhere!

I talk about ACTIVE NETWORK CONNECTION!

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de