In misc.phone.mobile.iphone david <this@is.invalid> wrote:
> Using <news:G1ednb-7Bb5NX_j6nZ2dnZfqn_rczs6s@earthlink.com>, Ant wrote:

> >>>> On the other hand Apple customers don't care. They also don't care that
> >>>> FaceTime is only possible with other Apple users. In the US iOS has a
> >>>> market share of nearly 60% and the Android market share is declining
> >>>> slowly:
> >>>> <https://explodingtopics.com/blog/iphone-android-users>
> >>>
> >>> Given the US is only about half Android and yet the world is overwhelmingly
> >>> Android, we all need to keep in mind Apple's vaunted "walled garden"
> >>> doesn't work unless you have constant 24/7/365 Internet access which most
> >>> of the world may not necessarily have.
> >
> >> For the record, my iPhone continues to work whether I'm connected to the
> >> internet or not.
> >
> > Ditto. I put mine offline when not needed.

> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the Internet?

Why would I want those when I don't want to be bothered?
--
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Using <news:VcucnXSovc9Ad_j6nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant wrote:

>> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
>> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the Internet?
>
> Why would I want those when I don't want to be bothered?

You're the one who lied about iOS not always needing internet access to use
the features locked inside Apple's walled garden (such as to install apps).

Your iOS device does almost nothing without logging into Apple's servers.

It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need to log
into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).

On 2024-12-20 14:58, david wrote:
> Using <news:VcucnXSovc9Ad_j6nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant wrote:
>
>>> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
>>> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the
>>> Internet?
>>
>> Why would I want those when I don't want to be bothered?
>
> You're the one who lied about iOS not always needing internet access to use
> the features locked inside Apple's walled garden (such as to install apps).

The claim was:

"constant 24/7/365 Internet access"

>
> Your iOS device does almost nothing without logging into Apple's servers.
>
> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need to log
> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).

"constant 24/7/365 Internet access"

Using <news:vk4t1s$3li1m$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need to log
>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).
>
> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access"

You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
That's "constant Internet access".

On 2024-12-20 17:04, david wrote:
> Using <news:vk4pdg$3jave$4@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>> How do you install apps without logging into Apple's app store on the
>>> net?
>>
>> Occasionally logging in to install an app isn't the same as the
>> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access" claim...
>
> Log out of Apple messages, facetime, app store, iCloud etc and tell us how
> good Apple's walled garden apps work without being logged into its servers.

I know how well it works.

And it works fine.

On 2024-12-20 17:04, david wrote:
> Using <news:vk4t1s$3li1m$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need
>>> to log
>>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).
>>
>> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access"
>
> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
> That's "constant Internet access".

You might CHOOSE to do that...

....but there is no NECESSITY to do that to make use of an iPhone.

Using <news:vk5500$3ml19$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

>> Log out of Apple messages, facetime, app store, iCloud etc and tell us how
>> good Apple's walled garden apps work without being logged into its servers.
>
> I know how well it works.
>
> And it works fine.

Everyone knows Apple's walled garden requires logging into it in order to
work. Except you.

Using <news:vk5512$3ml19$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

>>>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need
>>>> to log
>>>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).
>>>
>>> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access"
>>
>> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
>> That's "constant Internet access".
>
> You might CHOOSE to do that...
>
> ...but there is no NECESSITY to do that to make use of an iPhone.

Sure 0.00000000000001% of iOS users are NOT logged into it all the time.

But 99.999999999999% of iOS users are logged into Apple's servers 24/7/365.

Because without being logged in 24/7/365, the walled garden doesn't work.

On 2024-12-20 18:13, david wrote:
> Using <news:vk5500$3ml19$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>> Log out of Apple messages, facetime, app store, iCloud etc and tell
>>> us how
>>> good Apple's walled garden apps work without being logged into its
>>> servers.
>>
>> I know how well it works.
>>
>> And it works fine.
>
> Everyone knows Apple's walled garden requires logging into it in order to
> work. Except you.

I'm sorry, but YOU are wrong.

Tell me specific things you think I can't do...

....that don't naturally require internet access...

....and I'll start posting screenshots of me doing them.

:-)

On 2024-12-20 18:13, david wrote:
> Using <news:vk5512$3ml19$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>>>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need
>>>>> to log
>>>>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install
>>>>> apps).
>>>>
>>>> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access"
>>>
>>> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
>>> That's "constant Internet access".
>>
>> You might CHOOSE to do that...
>>
>> ...but there is no NECESSITY to do that to make use of an iPhone.
>
> Sure 0.00000000000001% of iOS users are NOT logged into it all the time.
>
> But 99.999999999999% of iOS users are logged into Apple's servers 24/7/365.
>
> Because without being logged in 24/7/365, the walled garden doesn't work.

I'm sorry, but that's just so much bullshit.

See my other message.

Using <news:vk58bf$3nphf$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

>>> You might CHOOSE to do that...
>>>
>>> ...but there is no NECESSITY to do that to make use of an iPhone.
>>
>> Sure 0.00000000000001% of iOS users are NOT logged into it all the time.
>>
>> But 99.999999999999% of iOS users are logged into Apple's servers 24/7/365.
>>
>> Because without being logged in 24/7/365, the walled garden doesn't work.
>
> I'm sorry, but that's just so much bullshit.
>
> See my other message.

This lying idiot doesn't even know the difference between being on the
internet & logging into a specific walled-garden account on Apple servers.

Using <news:vk58ah$3nphf$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

> Tell me specific things you think I can't do...
>
> ...that don't naturally require internet access...

This lying idiot doesn't even know the difference between being on the
internet & logging into a specific walled-garden account on Apple servers.

On 2024-12-20 18:45, david wrote:
> Using <news:vk58ah$3nphf$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>> Tell me specific things you think I can't do...
>>
>> ...that don't naturally require internet access...
>
> This lying idiot doesn't even know the difference between being on the
> internet & logging into a specific walled-garden account on Apple servers.

I've made you a specific challenge, doofus.

Tell me what on my phone is suppose to stop working if I turn off the
WiFi and mobile data.

Using <news:vk5ad4$3o50u$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:

>>> Tell me specific things you think I can't do...
>>>
>>> ...that don't naturally require internet access...
>>
>> This lying idiot doesn't even know the difference between being on the
>> internet & logging into a specific walled-garden account on Apple servers.
>
> I've made you a specific challenge, doofus.
>
> Tell me what on my phone is suppose to stop working if I turn off the
> WiFi and mobile data.

You're the lying idiot who doesn't even realize the obvious difference
between being on the Internet versus logging into a specific Apple account.

Log out of all your Apple accounts and then try to use the walled garden.
You can't. Idiot.

On 2024-12-20 18:54, david wrote:
> Using <news:vk5ad4$3o50u$1@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>>> Tell me specific things you think I can't do...
>>>>
>>>> ...that don't naturally require internet access...
>>>
>>> This lying idiot doesn't even know the difference between being on the
>>> internet & logging into a specific walled-garden account on Apple
>>> servers.
>>
>> I've made you a specific challenge, doofus.
>>
>> Tell me what on my phone is suppose to stop working if I turn off the
>> WiFi and mobile data.
>
> You're the lying idiot who doesn't even realize the obvious difference
> between being on the Internet versus logging into a specific Apple account.
> Log out of all your Apple accounts and then try to use the walled garden.
> You can't. Idiot.

No. I understand the difference quite clearly.

But it is SIMPLER for me to turn off my internet access.

You DO understand that if I have no internet access on the phone, then
my phone CANNOT be communicating with Apple's servers, correct?

On 18.12.24 09:15, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-12-17 23:22, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> No. Proprietary and encryption are NOT a contradiction.
>
> Don't argue from false positions.

You do not understand the concept of asymmetric secure end-to-end
encryption. Those who own the service provide the encryption? Seriously?
Naive to the max.

--
"De gustibus non est disputandum."

On 2024-12-20 23:53, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 18.12.24 09:15, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-12-17 23:22, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> No. Proprietary and encryption are NOT a contradiction.
>>
>> Don't argue from false positions.
>
> You do not understand the concept of asymmetric secure end-to-end
> encryption. Those who own the service provide the encryption? Seriously?
> Naive to the max.
>
>

I'm sorry but your premise is flawed.

There is a difference between what CAN be wrong with it and what must be
INHERENTLY wrong with it.

Alan, 2024-12-20 18:02:

> On 2024-12-20 01:46, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Alan, 2024-12-19 04:22:
>>
>>> On 2024-12-18 18:56, Andrew wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> We all know from Apple's history that the last thing Apple wants is
>>>> interoperability with other platforms (the proof is rampant everywhere).
>>>
>>> And yet you won't provide it.
>>>
>>> Weird.
>>
>> Is iMessage or FaceTime available for Android or Windows or at least
>> compatible with anything else?
> iMessage let's you send and receive SMS messages.

I would not call this "compatible" since you can use it in the same way
as with other Apple users.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andrew, 2024-12-20 21:01:

> Ant wrote on Fri, 20 Dec 2024 19:17:36 +0000 :
>
>>> For the record, my iPhone continues to work whether I'm connected to the
>>> internet or not.
>>
>> Ditto. I put mine offline when not needed.
>
> The iPhone is a dumb terminal - devoid of functionality if you don't log
> into the Apple mainframe servers 24/7/365 just for basic functionality.

I got an iPhone SE from my employer and can't reproduce this.

Even without internet and without connection to Apple it still works. I
can take pictures with it, listen to music which is stored on the device
and even call people if I only have GSM without internet.

So what exactly do you mean?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

david, 2024-12-20 21:50:

> Using <news:G1ednb-7Bb5NX_j6nZ2dnZfqn_rczs6s@earthlink.com>, Ant wrote:
>
>>>>> On the other hand Apple customers don't care. They also don't care that
>>>>> FaceTime is only possible with other Apple users. In the US iOS has a
>>>>> market share of nearly 60% and the Android market share is declining
>>>>> slowly:
>>>>> <https://explodingtopics.com/blog/iphone-android-users>
>>>>
>>>> Given the US is only about half Android and yet the world is overwhelmingly
>>>> Android, we all need to keep in mind Apple's vaunted "walled garden"
>>>> doesn't work unless you have constant 24/7/365 Internet access which most
>>>> of the world may not necessarily have.
>>
>>> For the record, my iPhone continues to work whether I'm connected to the
>>> internet or not.
>>
>> Ditto. I put mine offline when not needed.
>
> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the Internet?

Is "send and receive group facetime messages" neccessary to do phone
calls, taking pictures or listening to music stored on the device?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

david, 2024-12-20 23:58:

> Using <news:VcucnXSovc9Ad_j6nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@earthlink.com>, Ant wrote:
>
>>> How can you send and receive group facetime messages to and from other
>>> Apple users without logging into Apple's messaging servers on the Internet?
>>
>> Why would I want those when I don't want to be bothered?
>
> You're the one who lied about iOS not always needing internet access to use
> the features locked inside Apple's walled garden (such as to install apps).
>
> Your iOS device does almost nothing without logging into Apple's servers.

"Almost nothing"? Well - calling people on the phone is possible, taking
pictures, listening to music stored on the device, checking the current
time, using the calculator and *all* other apps which don't need an
active internet connection to work... I would not call this "almost
nothing". It's not less as with Android devices when you don't have
internet access.

> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need to log
> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).

Installing apps and using Apple services is just a part of the device
features. You also don't need Google services all the time to use an
Android device. But without *any* network connection *all* smartphones
have limited functionality. So why do you consider this "almost nothing"
when it comes to Apple devices? Do Android devices also do "almost
nothing" without internet connection and access to Google services, just
because you can't access Google Play?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

david, 2024-12-21 02:04:

> Using <news:vk4t1s$3li1m$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need to log
>>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).
>>
>> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access"
>
> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
> That's "constant Internet access".

Maybe you are - but I am not. My employers iPhone SE is *not* always
logged in since I sometimes have it with me at places where there is no
network available. And the device still works and still can be used as
camera, music player, calculator etc..

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

david, 2024-12-21 03:13:

> Using <news:vk5512$3ml19$2@dont-email.me>, Alan wrote:
>
>>>>> It's up to you, not me, to explain why you lied that you don't need
>>>>> to log
>>>>> into Apple's servers to use the walled garden (such as to install apps).
>>>>
>>>> "constant 24/7/365 Internet access"
>>>
>>> You're always logged in. 24 hours a day. 7 days a week. 365 days a year.
>>> That's "constant Internet access".
>>
>> You might CHOOSE to do that...
>>
>> ...but there is no NECESSITY to do that to make use of an iPhone.
>
> Sure 0.00000000000001% of iOS users are NOT logged into it all the time.
>
> But 99.999999999999% of iOS users are logged into Apple's servers 24/7/365.
>
> Because without being logged in 24/7/365, the walled garden doesn't work.

And if you don't need the walled garden all the time, then you don't
need to be logged in all the time. So what?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Oliver, 2024-12-20 21:47:

> On Fri, 20 Dec 2024 11:15:53 -0800, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote
>
>>> Given the US is only about half Android and yet the world is overwhelmingly
>>> Android, we all need to keep in mind Apple's vaunted "walled garden"
>>> doesn't work unless you have constant 24/7/365 Internet access which most
>>> of the world may not necessarily have.
>>
>> For the record, my iPhone continues to work whether I'm connected to the
>> internet or not.
>
> How do you install apps without logging into Apple's app store on the net?

By using alternative app stores. Even Apple *must* provide this nowadays
in some regions.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-21 08:53:

> On 18.12.24 09:15, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-12-17 23:22, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> No. Proprietary and encryption are NOT a contradiction.
>>
>> Don't argue from false positions.
>
> You do not understand the concept of asymmetric secure end-to-end
> encryption. Those who own the service provide the encryption? Seriously?
> Naive to the max.

You know the meaning of end-to-end-encryption?

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de