Avoid to use RCS! It is not what it seems and it is insecure and does
not respect your privacy. Elements that could make is safer are
proprietary Google stuff.

This is an advice from the FBI.

By Jerry Hildenbrand
published 3 days ago

https://www.androidcentral.com/apps-software/fbi-warns-about-ios-android-messaging-security-threat-and-im-not-surprised?

Texting still isn't safe.

Normally, I'm quick to point out all the ways that Google shows a lack
of respect for users inside its ecosystem. That's part of my job; if a
Google exec scratches his or her butt, I need to see how it affects
Google's portfolio and us since we're the ones using these products.

That means I rarely worry about what other companies, like Apple, do to
their users. This time is different because Apple's disdain for
consumers and lack of cooperation puts us all at risk, according to the
FBI, which usually knows what it is doing.

I'm talking about RCS. Of course, I'm talking about RCS because it's
been at least a month since I had to talk about RCS.

Here's the deal: if you use an iPhone and message someone else who is
using an iPhone, you're good. If you use an Android phone and message
someone else using an Android phone, you're good, too. The problem is
when an iPhone user messages an Android user or an Android user messages
an iPhone user.

Those messages, using the default messages app built into the phone, are
no more secure than the old way of sending a text was. Apple did
incorporate RCS messaging into iMessage, but it did it in a way that's
not secure and didn't work with Google to sort it out.

This happened because of RCS itself. The tech, in its current form,
doesn't support any sort of encryption yet. It's being worked on, but if
you implement RCS using only the current open standards, messages are no
safer than they used to be.

On the other hand, Google does offer encrypted RCS messaging — but only
between two Android phones or the Chrome browser tied to an Android
phone. It added this itself because RCS has no encryption method in place.

Since about 80% of people worldwide who use a smartphone are using an
Android smartphone, this was one of those times when Google did the
right thing. Apple didn't. Apple offers iPhone users who talk to other
iPhone users encryption and tells everyone else to just buy an iPhone.

The FBI piping in to let everyone know there is a problem isn't
unexpected. In fact, it's the opposite, and I'm surprised it took so
long. I assumed exploits would pop up during the first week, just like
spam and phishing messages supposedly from the post office did. You
(probably) aren't special, and nobody is actively trying to steal your
identity and hack your credit cards; they're just trying to steal
everyone's identity and get everyone's credit card info. Casting a huge
net is an easy way to scam regular people out of millions each year.

Apple and Google could have, and should have, prevented this. Instead,
Google was worried about tossing barbs at Apple and then taking a
victory lap even when it didn't really get what it was demanding.
Meanwhile, Apple trudged along and did nothing until China said they had
to add RCS capabilities. Apple will always try to appease China when
it's easy to do it, just like Google would. Neither side cared about
working together to help consumers like us because we were going to buy
their shit anyway. 💰🐄

So what should you do? If you live outside the U.S. or Canada, you
probably don't have to do anything because you likely don't even use
Google Messages or iMessage. People here use them because texts are
free, and, well, we just do.

If you use either, you should stop and switch to a secure and encrypted
platform like the FBI says. There are plenty, but I'm partial to Signal
because the people behind it only care about making a secure messaging
service; they want to hook you on their product by making it great and
not tying it to another service or looking to sell it off to Meta.

That's easier said than done. You could go through all of your contacts
and ask them to switch to another platform, but they're not going to do
it. They don't think they need to do it because they might not have
thousands in the bank sitting around ripe for the taking, or they don't
think they have anything to hide.

All you really can do is refuse to send any information through Google
Messages or iMessage that you don't want the world to read and wish the
companies that made these things actually cared about their users.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> Avoid to use RCS! It is not what it seems and it is insecure and does
> not respect your privacy. Elements that could make is safer are
> proprietary Google stuff.
>
> This is an advice from the FBI.
>
>
> By Jerry Hildenbrand
> published 3 days ago
>
> https://www.androidcentral.com/apps-software/fbi-warns-about-ios-android-messaging-security-threat-and-im-not-surprised?
>
> Texting still isn't safe.
>
> Normally, I'm quick to point out all the ways that Google shows a lack
> of respect for users inside its ecosystem. That's part of my job; if a
> Google exec scratches his or her butt, I need to see how it affects
> Google's portfolio and us since we're the ones using these products.
>
> That means I rarely worry about what other companies, like Apple, do to
> their users. This time is different because Apple's disdain for
> consumers and lack of cooperation puts us all at risk, according to the
> FBI, which usually knows what it is doing.
>
> I'm talking about RCS. Of course, I'm talking about RCS because it's
> been at least a month since I had to talk about RCS.
>
> Here's the deal: if you use an iPhone and message someone else who is
> using an iPhone, you're good. If you use an Android phone and message
> someone else using an Android phone, you're good, too. The problem is
> when an iPhone user messages an Android user or an Android user messages
> an iPhone user.
>
> Those messages, using the default messages app built into the phone, are
> no more secure than the old way of sending a text was. Apple did
> incorporate RCS messaging into iMessage, but it did it in a way that's
> not secure and didn't work with Google to sort it out.
>
> This happened because of RCS itself. The tech, in its current form,
> doesn't support any sort of encryption yet. It's being worked on, but if
> you implement RCS using only the current open standards, messages are no
> safer than they used to be.
>
> On the other hand, Google does offer encrypted RCS messaging — but only
> between two Android phones or the Chrome browser tied to an Android
> phone. It added this itself because RCS has no encryption method in place.
>
> Since about 80% of people worldwide who use a smartphone are using an
> Android smartphone, this was one of those times when Google did the
> right thing. Apple didn't. Apple offers iPhone users who talk to other
> iPhone users encryption and tells everyone else to just buy an iPhone.
>
> The FBI piping in to let everyone know there is a problem isn't
> unexpected. In fact, it's the opposite, and I'm surprised it took so
> long. I assumed exploits would pop up during the first week, just like
> spam and phishing messages supposedly from the post office did. You
> (probably) aren't special, and nobody is actively trying to steal your
> identity and hack your credit cards; they're just trying to steal
> everyone's identity and get everyone's credit card info. Casting a huge
> net is an easy way to scam regular people out of millions each year.
>
> Apple and Google could have, and should have, prevented this. Instead,
> Google was worried about tossing barbs at Apple and then taking a
> victory lap even when it didn't really get what it was demanding.
> Meanwhile, Apple trudged along and did nothing until China said they had
> to add RCS capabilities. Apple will always try to appease China when
> it's easy to do it, just like Google would. Neither side cared about
> working together to help consumers like us because we were going to buy
> their shit anyway. 💰🐄
>
> So what should you do? If you live outside the U.S. or Canada, you
> probably don't have to do anything because you likely don't even use
> Google Messages or iMessage. People here use them because texts are
> free, and, well, we just do.
>
> If you use either, you should stop and switch to a secure and encrypted
> platform like the FBI says. There are plenty, but I'm partial to Signal
> because the people behind it only care about making a secure messaging
> service; they want to hook you on their product by making it great and
> not tying it to another service or looking to sell it off to Meta.
>
> That's easier said than done. You could go through all of your contacts
> and ask them to switch to another platform, but they're not going to do
> it. They don't think they need to do it because they might not have
> thousands in the bank sitting around ripe for the taking, or they don't
> think they have anything to hide.
>
> All you really can do is refuse to send any information through Google
> Messages or iMessage that you don't want the world to read and wish the
> companies that made these things actually cared about their users.
>
>

Considering the only other option is to use SMS there is no other option. I
cannot tell another user to install a third party messaging app like
WhatsApp or Signal otherwise they won’t receive messages from me.

In this case both Apple and Google are at fault because neither will
compromise for the good of the consumer. They are trying to protect their
own kingdoms.

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

> void to use RCS! It is not what it seems

I thought we already knew that cross-ecosystem was not encrypted?

On 17.12.24 11:31, Andy Burns wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>
>> void to use RCS! It is not what it seems
>
> I thought we already knew that cross-ecosystem was not encrypted?

There is a lot more behind it.

--
"Gutta cavat lapidem." (Ovid)

On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> Avoid to use RCS!

If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
says so.

And we knew this.

> It is not what it seems and it is insecure and does
> not respect your privacy. Elements that could make is safer are
> proprietary Google stuff.
>
> This is an advice from the FBI.
>
>
> By Jerry Hildenbrand
> published 3 days ago
>
> https://www.androidcentral.com/apps-software/fbi-warns-about-ios-android-messaging-security-threat-and-im-not-surprised?

....

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> Avoid to use RCS!
>
> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
> says so.

You do not understand what happens.
RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

Jörg Lorenz wrote:

>Nobody needs it or wants it.

The ghost of nospam is alive!

On 2024-12-17 16:58, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>
>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>> says so.
>
> You do not understand what happens.
> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>

We know you say that, and we also know this to be false. Don't worry
about it :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 17.12.24 21:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-17 16:58, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>
>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>> says so.
>>
>> You do not understand what happens.
>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>
>
> We know you say that, and we also know this to be false. Don't worry
> about it :-)

You comment is redundant. In this particular case the FBI is a lot more
trustworthy than you will ever be.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2024-12-17 21:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 17.12.24 21:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-17 16:58, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>>
>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>> says so.
>>>
>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>>
>>
>> We know you say that, and we also know this to be false. Don't worry
>> about it :-)
>
> You comment is redundant. In this particular case the FBI is a lot more
> trustworthy than you will ever be.
>

The FBI doesn't contradict me at all.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 17.12.24 22:43, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-17 21:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>> On 17.12.24 21:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-17 16:58, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>>>
>>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>>> says so.
>>>>
>>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We know you say that, and we also know this to be false. Don't worry
>>> about it :-)
>>
>> You comment is redundant. In this particular case the FBI is a lot more
>> trustworthy than you will ever be.
>>
>
> The FBI doesn't contradict me at all.

They never will.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

W Tue, 17 Dec 2024 14:00:44 +0100, Jörg Lorenz napisal:

>>> void to use RCS! It is not what it seems
>>
>> I thought we already knew that cross-ecosystem was not encrypted?
>
> There is a lot more behind it.

Luckily for everyone, Jorg Lornz is just the right person to explain
everything technical that you need to know about message encryption.

Jorg: Please explain to everyone here what you know about this topic.

Jan K. <janicekoziol@nie.ma.spamu.prosze.com> wrote:
> W Tue, 17 Dec 2024 14:00:44 +0100, Jörg Lorenz napisal:
>
>>>> void to use RCS! It is not what it seems
>>>
>>> I thought we already knew that cross-ecosystem was not encrypted?
>>
>> There is a lot more behind it.
>
> Luckily for everyone, Jorg Lornz is just the right person to explain
> everything technical that you need to know about message encryption.
>
> Jorg: Please explain to everyone here what you know about this topic.
>

LOL!!

badgolferman wrote on Tue, 17 Dec 2024 16:48:11 -0000 (UTC) :

>>Nobody needs it or wants it.
>
> The ghost of nospam is alive!

Hooray! The ghost of nospam has spoken!

If it's something that Apple doesn't make money on, then...
"nobody needs it" and "nobody wants it"

Maybe Joerg Lorenz picked up nospam's contract to make senseless and
literally inane excuses for why Apple products can't do what every other
similar product does (which is proof enough that people want it).

Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-17 07:19:

> Avoid to use RCS! It is not what it seems and it is insecure and does
> not respect your privacy. Elements that could make is safer are
> proprietary Google stuff.
>
> This is an advice from the FBI.

To be more precise:

The problem is using RCS between Android and Non-Android-Devices since
encryption is not standard for RCS and does not work when you
communicate from Android to iOS or vice versa.

However Android will show you, if messages to a specific recipient will
be sent using encryption or not.

[...]
> Apple and Google could have, and should have, prevented this. Instead,
> Google was worried about tossing barbs at Apple and then taking a
> victory lap even when it didn't really get what it was demanding.

And Apple did not care, because they have iMessage and just ignore
anything outside their ecosystem.

On the other hand - messengers with end-to-end-encryption for iOS and
Android exist.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-17 16:58:

> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>
>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>> says so.
>
> You do not understand what happens.
> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.

RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
proprietary encryption to it.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-12-18 00:36, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-17 16:58:
>
>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>
>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>> says so.
>>
>> You do not understand what happens.
>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>
> RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
> proprietary encryption to it.

Proprietary, maybe, but they did not block Apple from using it. It was
Apple who decided not even to try using it. Ok, it is not an standard,
but it exists, it is there, ready to use. Just use, then agree into an
standard, and implement it next.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Arno Welzel wrote on Wed, 18 Dec 2024 00:35:16 +0100 :

>> This is an advice from the FBI.
>
> To be more precise:
>
> The problem is using RCS between Android and Non-Android-Devices since
> encryption is not standard for RCS and does not work when you
> communicate from Android to iOS or vice versa.
>
> However Android will show you, if messages to a specific recipient will
> be sent using encryption or not.
>> Apple and Google could have, and should have, prevented this. Instead,
>> Google was worried about tossing barbs at Apple and then taking a
>> victory lap even when it didn't really get what it was demanding.
>
> And Apple did not care, because they have iMessage and just ignore
> anything outside their ecosystem.
>
> On the other hand - messengers with end-to-end-encryption for iOS and
> Android exist.

It's actually worse than Apple not caring since Apple only tells the truth
in court, where the Epic deposition proved beyond any doubt using Apple
executives' emails that Apple *never* wanted interoperability with anyone.

That's just a fact that Apple never wants interoperability.

Luckily, the EU forced Apple's hand.

But only so much... as encryption wasn't part of the EU's demands.

Carlos E.R. wrote on Wed, 18 Dec 2024 01:15:45 +0100 :

>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>> says so.
>>>
>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>
>> RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
>> proprietary encryption to it.
>
> Proprietary, maybe, but they did not block Apple from using it. It was
> Apple who decided not even to try using it. Ok, it is not an standard,
> but it exists, it is there, ready to use. Just use, then agree into an
> standard, and implement it next.

The only reason RCS is in iPhones is the EU demanded Apple add it.
RCS encryption isn't there only because the EU didn't demand that too.

On 2024-12-17 17:34, Andrew wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote on Wed, 18 Dec 2024 00:35:16 +0100 :
>
>>> This is an advice from the FBI.
>>
>> To be more precise:
>>
>> The problem is using RCS between Android and Non-Android-Devices since
>> encryption is not standard for RCS and does not work when you
>> communicate from Android to iOS or vice versa.
>>
>> However Android will show you, if messages to a specific recipient will
>> be sent using encryption or not.
>>> Apple and Google could have, and should have, prevented this. Instead,
>>> Google was worried about tossing barbs at Apple and then taking a
>>> victory lap even when it didn't really get what it was demanding.
>>
>> And Apple did not care, because they have iMessage and just ignore
>> anything outside their ecosystem.
>>
>> On the other hand - messengers with end-to-end-encryption for iOS and
>> Android exist.
>
> It's actually worse than Apple not caring since Apple only tells the truth
> in court, where the Epic deposition proved beyond any doubt using Apple
> executives' emails that Apple *never* wanted interoperability with anyone.

You've got a source for that, do you?

>
> That's just a fact that Apple never wants interoperability.
>
> Luckily, the EU forced Apple's hand.
>
> But only so much... as encryption wasn't part of the EU's demands.

On 18.12.24 01:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2024-12-18 00:36, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-17 16:58:
>>
>>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>>
>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>> says so.
>>>
>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>
>> RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
>> proprietary encryption to it.
>
> Proprietary, maybe, but they did not block Apple from using it. It was
> Apple who decided not even to try using it. Ok, it is not an standard,
> but it exists, it is there, ready to use. Just use, then agree into an
> standard, and implement it next.

That is naive. Proprietary and encryption are a contradiction.
And you do not seem to understand the powerplay of big tech.

--
"Roma locuta, causa finita." (Augustinus)

On 2024-12-18 02:39, Andrew wrote:
> Carlos E.R. wrote on Wed, 18 Dec 2024 01:15:45 +0100 :
>
>>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>>> says so.
>>>>
>>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>>
>>> RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
>>> proprietary encryption to it.
>>
>> Proprietary, maybe, but they did not block Apple from using it. It was
>> Apple who decided not even to try using it. Ok, it is not an standard,
>> but it exists, it is there, ready to use. Just use, then agree into an
>> standard, and implement it next.
>
> The only reason RCS is in iPhones is the EU demanded Apple add it.
> RCS encryption isn't there only because the EU didn't demand that too.

The EU did not think Apple would be that stupid as to not implement it.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-12-17 23:22, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> On 18.12.24 01:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-18 00:36, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-17 16:58:
>>>
>>>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>>>
>>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>>> says so.
>>>>
>>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>>
>>> RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
>>> proprietary encryption to it.
>>
>> Proprietary, maybe, but they did not block Apple from using it. It was
>> Apple who decided not even to try using it. Ok, it is not an standard,
>> but it exists, it is there, ready to use. Just use, then agree into an
>> standard, and implement it next.
>
> That is naive. Proprietary and encryption are a contradiction.
> And you do not seem to understand the powerplay of big tech.
>
>

No. Proprietary and encryption are NOT a contradiction.

Don't argue from false positions.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-12-17 21:49, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> > On 17.12.24 21:42, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> >> On 2024-12-17 16:58, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> >>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> >>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
> >>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
> >>>>
> >>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
> >>>> says so.
> >>>
> >>> You do not understand what happens.
> >>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
> >>>
> >>
> >> We know you say that, and we also know this to be false. Don't worry
> >> about it :-)
> >
> > You comment is redundant. In this particular case the FBI is a lot more
> > trustworthy than you will ever be.
> >
>
> The FBI doesn't contradict me at all.

Of course they don't. After all, you didn't give them permission to
disagree with you, did you!?

Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 18.12.24 01:15, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2024-12-18 00:36, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Jörg Lorenz, 2024-12-17 16:58:
>>>
>>>> On 17.12.24 15:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-12-17 07:19, Jörg Lorenz wrote:
>>>>>> Avoid to use RCS!
>>>>>
>>>>> If an iPhone is involved. It's fine on Android. The article you posted
>>>>> says so.
>>>>
>>>> You do not understand what happens.
>>>> RCS is Google's wet dream. Nobody needs it or wants it.
>>>
>>> RCS works fine - much better than MMS ever was. Google just added a
>>> proprietary encryption to it.
>>
>> Proprietary, maybe, but they did not block Apple from using it. It was
>> Apple who decided not even to try using it. Ok, it is not an standard,
>> but it exists, it is there, ready to use. Just use, then agree into an
>> standard, and implement it next.
>
> That is naive. Proprietary and encryption are a contradiction.
> And you do not seem to understand the powerplay of big tech.
>
>

By being dismissive and haughty, you are demonstrating that it is you who
does not understand anything. You’ve already been invited to educate us, so
do that. But we know you are more ignorant than anyone else here.