Jesper,

> When this Android 15 smartphone is connected to my Windows11 PC via USB,
> it does not show up in Windows Explorer at all. And no message on the
> phone about allowing access.

It might be that you first need to allow possible access to your phone,
after which you, on connection, get such a "are you sure" confirmation
dialog.

IOW, look in your phones settings.

> Therefore I use an app, Cx File Explorer, for transfering files between
> Phone and PC

An app on your phone to talk with the PC ? That should mean that there is
nothing wrong with the connection/cable itself.

Regards,
Rudy Wieser

Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]

> When this Android 15 smartphone is connected to my Windows11 PC via USB,
> it does not show up in Windows Explorer at all. And no message on the
> phone about allowing access.

Does it not show up at all or does it not show any folders/files?
Normally, there should be an icon with a picture of a phone and the
name of the phone. Mine shows a smartphone, i.e. just a screen. and
"Frank's Galaxy A51".

If you *do* see the icon+name, but no folders/files, that's probably
because your phone is (screen) locked. If so, just unlock the phone and
follow the prompts, if any.

> Therefore I use an app, Cx File Explorer,
> for transfering files between Phone and PC. I have tried different
> cables: one with USB-A in one end and USB-C in the other, and one with
> USB-C in both ends.

Use the cable which came with the phone! That cable should allow
charging and data transfer.

> My old Android 4 phone is visible in Windows Explorer on PC when
> connected via USB, and files can be transferred.

If the cable is the right one and not defective, it's probably a
matter of installing the right USB driver on your computer. The
website/documentation of the phone should be able to help you with that.
It may be as simple as installing the needed devices/drivers with Device
Manager. You should have a phone device under 'Portable Devices' and a
USB device under 'Universal Serial Bus Controllers' (mine is called
'SAMSUNG Mobile USB Composite Device').

As your old Android 4 phone works, you can use that to compare which
devices should be visible in Device Manager, i.e. connect *both* phones,
unlock them and compare.

On Mon, 16 Dec 2024 15:21:23 +0100, Jesper <Vitsky.kasperski@gmail.com>
wrote:

>When this Android 15 smartphone is connected to my Windows11 PC via USB,
>it does not show up in Windows Explorer at all. And no message on the
>phone about allowing access. Therefore I use an app, Cx File Explorer,
>for transfering files between Phone and PC. I have tried different
>cables: one with USB-A in one end and USB-C in the other, and one with
>USB-C in both ends.
>My old Android 4 phone is visible in Windows Explorer on PC when
>connected via USB, and files can be transferred.

With respect to my Moto G5 Plus (circa 2017), when I connect it to my
Windows 10 PC, I have to go to Settings on the phone and tell it that I
want to allow file transfers (I can't remember just now what the exact
wording is). Then, on the PC, I have to tell Explorer to "Refresh", and
then the phone shows up. Explorer acts a little odd, when a device like a
phone or eReader is plugged in, in that when I click on the phone, any
other directory that was open, immediately collapses, and if I go back to
that directory, the phone directory collapses--weird. It took me qhhuite a
while to figure all this out, when I was recently given this phone (my
first cell phone). Anroid phones are incrdible devices, but for this old
DOS/Windows guy, the Android file system is still a mystery.

--
croy

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> As Rudy mentioned, I don't think the OP (Jesper) said that the
> information/file(s) should be accessible by a file manager *on the
> (Android) device*. That's your restriction, not his.
>
> Most, if not all, posters here have a computer. Jesper posted with
> Mozilla Thunderbird, so he has a Windows or Linux (or mac?) computer
> which he can use with a USB connection to his phone.
>
> As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
> connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
> *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
> restriction you're not divulging.

And shall we delve into encrypted files? A file may get backed up, but
that doesn't mean you can get inside it. Also, just because you know
where is a file, and can access or copy it, doesn't mean you can
casually view it. On Android, SMS messages are stored in an SQLite
database, so you need an SQLite viewer, editor, or extractor. You need
to know which record to extract, and perhaps the structure of those
records. Repetitive inspection might lead to which record and which
field. There are SQLite apps for Android, but I haven't used any there.

All of this is now somewhat moot as of 3 days ago after Jesper noted he
managed to get at the picture inside an MMS that he wanted to share.
However, that doesn't bar wandering off onto tangents discussing the
trials and tribulations of using an over-wresting OS.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>
> > As Rudy mentioned, I don't think the OP (Jesper) said that the
> > information/file(s) should be accessible by a file manager *on the
> > (Android) device*. That's your restriction, not his.
> >
> > Most, if not all, posters here have a computer. Jesper posted with
> > Mozilla Thunderbird, so he has a Windows or Linux (or mac?) computer
> > which he can use with a USB connection to his phone.
> >
> > As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
> > connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
> > *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
> > restriction you're not divulging.
>
> And shall we delve into encrypted files? A file may get backed up, but
> that doesn't mean you can get inside it.

Yes, put this part of the thread *is* about backup, not about getting
inside the information/file(s).

> Also, just because you know
> where is a file, and can access or copy it, doesn't mean you can
> casually view it. On Android, SMS messages are stored in an SQLite
> database, so you need an SQLite viewer, editor, or extractor. You need
> to know which record to extract, and perhaps the structure of those
> records. Repetitive inspection might lead to which record and which
> field. There are SQLite apps for Android, but I haven't used any there.

As I mentioned elsewhere [1] in the (sub-)thread, both backing up and
exporting SMS/MMS messages and contacts is *not* a problem on Android.
There are umpteen apps that do that kind of thing.

> All of this is now somewhat moot as of 3 days ago after Jesper noted he
> managed to get at the picture inside an MMS that he wanted to share.
> However, that doesn't bar wandering off onto tangents discussing the
> trials and tribulations of using an over-wresting OS.

What!? Thread drift!? On *Usenet*!? Can't be!

[1] Message-ID: <vjph76.pt8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> wrote:
[...]

> With respect to my Moto G5 Plus (circa 2017), when I connect it to my
> Windows 10 PC, I have to go to Settings on the phone and tell it that I
> want to allow file transfers (I can't remember just now what the exact
> wording is). Then, on the PC, I have to tell Explorer to "Refresh", and
> then the phone shows up. ...

Good point (for Jesper)!

When you connect the phone, drag down the notification area from the
top of your screen. There you should see a notification mentioning
'USB'. Tap the down arrow. It should be set to 'USB for file transfer'.
If not, tap on 'Tap for other USB options' and correct the setting. Do
*not* use the 'Transferring images' setting. With 'USB for file
transfer' you can transfer images *and* other files. With 'Transferring
images' you can only transfer images and probably not from/to all
places.

[...]

On 16 Dec 2024 18:38:25 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
wrote:

>VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > As Rudy mentioned, I don't think the OP (Jesper) said that the
>> > information/file(s) should be accessible by a file manager *on the
>> > (Android) device*. That's your restriction, not his.
>> >
>> > Most, if not all, posters here have a computer. Jesper posted with
>> > Mozilla Thunderbird, so he has a Windows or Linux (or mac?) computer
>> > which he can use with a USB connection to his phone.
>> >
>> > As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
>> > connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
>> > *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
>> > restriction you're not divulging.
>>
>> And shall we delve into encrypted files? A file may get backed up, but
>> that doesn't mean you can get inside it.
>
> Yes, put this part of the thread *is* about backup, not about getting
>inside the information/file(s).
>
>> Also, just because you know
>> where is a file, and can access or copy it, doesn't mean you can
>> casually view it. On Android, SMS messages are stored in an SQLite
>> database, so you need an SQLite viewer, editor, or extractor. You need
>> to know which record to extract, and perhaps the structure of those
>> records. Repetitive inspection might lead to which record and which
>> field. There are SQLite apps for Android, but I haven't used any there.
>
> As I mentioned elsewhere [1] in the (sub-)thread, both backing up and
>exporting SMS/MMS messages and contacts is *not* a problem on Android.
>There are umpteen apps that do that kind of thing.
>
>> All of this is now somewhat moot as of 3 days ago after Jesper noted he
>> managed to get at the picture inside an MMS that he wanted to share.
>> However, that doesn't bar wandering off onto tangents discussing the
>> trials and tribulations of using an over-wresting OS.
>
> What!? Thread drift!? On *Usenet*!? Can't be!
>
There are spin-offs in thread-drifting, so it sure can be a good
thing. To sum up: I was hoping to dig a picture in a MMS-message out
as a separate file, but quite early in this thread I learnt from wise
people, that most apps in Android store their data in a restricted
restricted area you can only see if the phone is rooted (or something
like that).
Then in the part about getting access to the the phones storage from
windows I learnt something: All my prior phones popped up a message
asking why to do, as soon as a USB-connection to a PC was established.
Not with this new one. It did not cross my mind to drag down to see
the information area. But drag down and there it is, asking what to
do.
Anyway, it is easier to connect to PC via wifi and use a file explorer
on the phone.

Best regards
--
Jesper Kaas - jesperk@neindanke.online.no

On 2024-12-16 16:15, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> As your old Android 4 phone works, you can use that to compare which
> devices should be visible in Device Manager, i.e. connect*both* phones,
> unlock them and compare.

No, modern phones use MTP
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol), while old
phones actually mounted the phones similar as an USB stick.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Frank Slootweg wrote on 16 Dec 2024 14:33:06 GMT :

>> And "normal folders" are *not* private app storage folders. For example
>> you can *not* read the contact database this way.
>
> True, you probably need 'adb pull' to access those. Anyway, as has
> been said, things like contacts, (SMS/MMS) messages, etc. are the easy
> bit, because there are lots of apps wich can can backup/export those.
> The critical/difficult ones are the app-private folders and - as said - a
> USB connection can access those.

Unrooted...

Frank is completely correct that Windows adb (& Android WebDAV servers)
allow my Windows PC almost complete read-only access to many of the Android
"system" files & folders over USB cable (which are not available otherwise)
<https://i.postimg.cc/Zngy0SGT/filesys03.jpg>

As Frank noted, these folders that are accessible to Windows adb (& to
WebDav servers) are NOT generally accessible to Android file managers.

Specifically for the one-and-only Android contacts sqlite database, in the
past I had tried to access the contacts folders with adb and, as I recall,
I failed - but if it's possible - I'd love to know how it can be done!

Why is it that any app can access the default Android contacts sqlite
database & the default Android SMS/MMS sqlite database, but I can't access
it?
<https://xdaforums.com/t/why-is-it-that-any-app-can-access-the-default-android-contacts-sqlite-database-the-default-android-sms-mms-sqlite-database-but-i-cant-access-it.4679128/>

Jesper wrote on Fri, 13 Dec 2024 21:20:09 +0100 :

> I just wanted to get hold of a picture that was sent as MMS as a normal
> picture file, .jpg or whatever. I first tried a long tap on the picture
> in "Messages" , which did not bring up anything. Then my wife showed me
> to use a short tap on the picture, which brought up icons, one of which
> gave a "Share" menu. So simple.

Glad you figured out where media is stored for your messaging app.

As far as I'm aware, each messenger can save the photos to sd0 storage.

Mine, for example, are auto-stored in /sd0/Pictures/Pulse/{image.jpg}

Jesper Kaas wrote on Mon, 16 Dec 2024 21:08:34 +0100 :

> I was hoping to dig a picture in a MMS-message out
> as a separate file, but quite early in this thread I learnt from wise
> people, that most apps in Android store their data in a restricted
> restricted area you can only see if the phone is rooted (or something
> like that).

I want to clarify that statement above because, as I understand the
situation, originally you asked a completely *different* question than what
you found as your solution.

What you found as your solution is that every text messenger app seems to
have an option for automatically (or manually) saving incoming media to a
location on your Android file system that the file manager can access.

But what you originally asked, as I understand it, is where is the original
messaging data (including all the text messages) stored.

Those are two completely different questions.
Therefore, the answers are completely different.

One is stored in a plaintext file out in the open for all to see.
The other is stored in an XML database only accessible to text messengers.

In summary, if all you wanted was a copy of the incoming media (not the
originals, mind you), then that is what you found was very easy to access.

Getting a hold of the original database is what is hard to do without
rooting.

Carlos E.R., 2024-12-16 00:47:

> On 2024-12-15 23:32, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> Yes - that's a *backup*. But *backup* is not "access files with a file
>> manager on the device" and not all apps allow to backup their data.
>
> I seem to recall that filemanagers in Android need a special permission
> to be able to see "everything". Or most things, anyhow.

Yes, they need to be a "system" app provided by the manufacturer so they
can more or less act the same way as if they got root access.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-16 15:49:

[...]
> As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
> connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
> *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
> restriction you're not divulging.

At least many Banking apps usually do not allow to backup their data.
And it does not matter, if the backup is done via ADB or as part of the
Google app backup.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-16 19:38:

[...]
> As I mentioned elsewhere [1] in the (sub-)thread, both backing up and
> exporting SMS/MMS messages and contacts is *not* a problem on Android.
> There are umpteen apps that do that kind of thing.

Yes - because "read SMS" is a permission which can be granted to apps
and not because messages received via SMS is just lying around somewhere
and every app can read it.

Also see:

<https://developer.android.com/reference/android/Manifest.permission#READ_SMS>

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-12-17 04:25, Andrew wrote:
> Why is it that any app can access the default Android contacts sqlite
> database & the default Android SMS/MMS sqlite database, but I can't access
> it?

Probably because they are using an API, not trying to open the sqlite
files themselves.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2024-12-16 16:15, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> > As your old Android 4 phone works, you can use that to compare which
> > devices should be visible in Device Manager, i.e. connect*both* phones,
> > unlock them and compare.
>
> No, modern phones use MTP
> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol), while old
> phones actually mounted the phones similar as an USB stick.

As quoted above, Jesper's phone is Android 4. My Huawei Ascend Y300
phone came with Android 4.1.1 and that already had MTP (and PTP) and -
as you mentioned - 'USB mass storage'. I bought that phone in September
2013.

That's why I assumed Jesper can compare his old and new phone setups.

Anyway, this is all moot, because Jesper has reported that the
'problem' with the new phone was that he hadn't looked in the drag down
the notification area. Once he did, he saw the USB connection options.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-16 15:49:
>
> [...]
> > As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
> > connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
> > *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
> > restriction you're not divulging.
>
> At least many Banking apps usually do not allow to backup their data.
> And it does not matter, if the backup is done via ADB or as part of the
> Google app backup.

And *how* can those banking apps "not allow to backup their data"!?
Especially for the ADB case.

Remember I said "Unless there's some other kind of restriction you're
not divulging.".

Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-17 19:16:

> Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
>> Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-16 15:49:
>>
>> [...]
>>> As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
>>> connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
>>> *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
>>> restriction you're not divulging.
>>
>> At least many Banking apps usually do not allow to backup their data.
>> And it does not matter, if the backup is done via ADB or as part of the
>> Google app backup.
>
> And *how* can those banking apps "not allow to backup their data"!?
> Especially for the ADB case.

Their app manifest forbids it. This can be achieved like this:

<?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
<manifest xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android"
xmlns:tools="http://schemas.android.com/tools"
tools:replace="allowBackup"
android:allowBackup="false" />

The entry tools:replace="allowBackup" makes sure, that any libaries used
by the app which have their own manifest, do not allow backup accidentally.

And ADB will obey that and won't pull lany backups for those apps.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Frank Slootweg wrote on 17 Dec 2024 16:27:13 GMT :

> Anyway, this is all moot, because Jesper has reported that the
> 'problem' with the new phone was that he hadn't looked in the drag down
> the notification area. Once he did, he saw the USB connection options.

<https://i.postimg.cc/JnDTWH9M/usb01.jpg> USB default settings

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-17 19:16:
>
> > Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:
> >> Frank Slootweg, 2024-12-16 15:49:
> >>
> >> [...]
> >>> As to "not all apps allow to backup their data.": With the USB
> >>> connection, one can backup all app-private folders and files, so one
> >>> *can* backup the data of all apps. Unless there's some other kind of
> >>> restriction you're not divulging.
> >>
> >> At least many Banking apps usually do not allow to backup their data.
> >> And it does not matter, if the backup is done via ADB or as part of the
> >> Google app backup.
> >
> > And *how* can those banking apps "not allow to backup their data"!?
> > Especially for the ADB case.
>
> Their app manifest forbids it. This can be achieved like this:
>
> <?xml version='1.0' encoding='utf-8'?>
> <manifest xmlns:android="http://schemas.android.com/apk/res/android"
> xmlns:tools="http://schemas.android.com/tools"
> tools:replace="allowBackup"
> android:allowBackup="false" />
>
> The entry tools:replace="allowBackup" makes sure, that any libaries used
> by the app which have their own manifest, do not allow backup accidentally.
>
> And ADB will obey that and won't pull lany backups for those apps.

Thanks for your information. It might come in handy if I ever
encounter any such apps.

FWIW, I'm not worried about my banking apps not being allowed/able to
backup their data, because any relevant data can most likely be
recovered from my accounts on the banks servers. I.e. if lost, the
on-device data is recoverable.

N.B. It would be interesting to know if other computer programs - such
as Samsung's 'Smart Switch' - also honor the manifest settings, but
given my above mentioned low interest, I don't think I will try.

Frank Slootweg wrote on 18 Dec 2024 10:27:04 GMT :

>> And ADB will obey that and won't pull lany backups for those apps.
>
> Thanks for your information. It might come in handy if I ever
> encounter any such apps.
>
> FWIW, I'm not worried about my banking apps not being allowed/able to
> backup their data, because any relevant data can most likely be
> recovered from my accounts on the banks servers. I.e. if lost, the
> on-device data is recoverable.
>
> N.B. It would be interesting to know if other computer programs - such
> as Samsung's 'Smart Switch' - also honor the manifest settings, but
> given my above mentioned low interest, I don't think I will try.

I also very much echo Frank's sentiment to Arno thanking him for edifying
us as to why some apps can be backed up and others can't (unrooted).

I, like Frank, am not all that interested in the gory details; but it has
always confused me why some apps and file managers can see the system
directories on Android while other apps and file managers can't see them.

Specifically I've wondered why I can see a lot of the root system folders
when I use adb and webdav servers with Windows File Explorer over USB.

If anyone cares, one file manager which *does* seem to see (read only)
system folders on Android appears to be ZArchiver archival program.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ru.zdevs.zarchiver>

It's not supposed to be only a file manager - but it shows the root
partition.

Maybe Arno can explain why that one archiver shows the file system so well?
Muntashirakon App Manager shows me it has some of the following permissions
android.permission.REQUEST_INSTALL_PACKAGES
android.permission.MANAGE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE
android.permission.ACCESS_SUPERUSER
etc.