"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vci7kj94eurvrnf4hqb4gpi4darm8uiu75@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>
>
> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.

So to be clear your inability to update Windows was purely because you
lacked a video card?

Please inform us all how Win11 updates required a higher video standard.

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vi0inc$2fb29$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-24 16:50, Joel wrote:
>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>>
>>
>> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
> And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
>
> You've described your use of the computer as:
>
> 'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
>
> So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
>
> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>
> Is Linux really that bad?

Apparently. I mean even Win11 doesn't call for that much.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:0nk7kj9v7vjvij70fc7icb5cjcgga5c1li@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Have you actually upgraded your current system?
>>>
>>> Originally, I had no video card, and 16 GB RAM. I have a very basic
>>> NVIDIA card, and 32 GB RAM, now.
>>And how have those upgrades actually benefited you?
>>
>>You've described your use of the computer as:
>>
>>'Internet portal, music player, that kind of thing.'
>>
>>So do you NEED a better video subsystem for that?
>
>
> I found that the Intel CPU video was weak for my 4K monitor, that I
> got subsequent to assembling the computer, originally I kept using my
> old 1080p monitor.

So you need a 4K monitor for 'Internet portal, music player, that kind of
thing.'?

>>Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>
>>Is Linux really that bad?
>
>
> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.

So now that we've established your inability to update Win11 had nothing to
with memory, video or storage resources.. what is your excuse going to be?

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ojo7kjpmt03p5lga973ko1d6f74ovrosk4@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>> Do you need 32GB of RAM to do that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is Linux really that bad?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have Firefox, Chrome, Edge and LibreWolf browsers all running,
>>>>> several chat apps, Web apps for Bluesky, Twitter/X and Threads, and
>>>>> for Copilot, LibreOffice Writer, GIMP. It's not a matter of Linux
>>>>> needing RAM, it's a matter of wanting to multitask numerous things for
>>>>> any OS. I'd have done the same thing if I'd kept Win11.
>>>>
>>>> I currently have 25 Safari windows open with a total of 273 tabs, as
>>>> well as Thunderbird, Apple Mail, Microsoft Teams, Calendar, Finder....
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ...and I'll open up all three Microsoft Office main apps (Word, Excel,
>>>> PowerPoint)...
>>>>
>>>> ...and with all of that I'm still only at 2/3 on the "Memory Pressure"
>>>> graph in Activity Monitor (which, of course, is also open; oh, and
>>>> Script Editor to perform the count of open Safari tabs)...
>>>>
>>>> ...and that's with just 16GB of RAM.
>>>
>>> I don't know how to analyze that in some conclusive way. I just know
>>> that with 32 GB, I rarely even use one byte of swap.
>>
>>So the same as my system under at least as great a load with half the RAM
>
>
> I'm using about half of my RAM for main memory, with another 8 GB or
> so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.

.....but your system isn't good enough to update Win11.

<snicker>

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jrp7kj925hepvkgb424ncbqhkeigefh8oh@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>> I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8
>>> GB or
>>> so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
>>
>>You're 133t, dude!
>>
>>You are so 133t!
>>
>>LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
>>
>>??????????????
>
>
> Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.

How? So far you've shown us NOTHING

"Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
news:vi0s9l$2kdc6$1@dont-email.me...
> On 2024-11-24 19:48, -hh wrote:
>> On 11/24/24 9:58 PM, Joel wrote:
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8
>>>>> GB or
>>>>> so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
>>>>
>>>> You're 133t, dude!
>>>>
>>>> You are so 133t!
>>>>
>>>> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
>>>>
>>>> ??????????????
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
>>>
>>
>> But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
>> And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
>>
>> -hh
>
> Apparently not much.
>
> He couldn't future-proof his video system.

Heck he didn't even future proof his computer system. Remember his system
was inadequate to handle Win11 updates...

.... by his own admission.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7gu7kjlv96foto4848057b3008sjfln4vj@4ax.com...
> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>
>>He couldn't future-proof his video system.
>>
>>?
>
>
> Are you really so surprised that the CPU's integrated video wouldn't
> do well, with 4K? It seems obvious that it'd help to have a discreet
> video card, I didn't need an expensive one, it's not a big deal. I'm
> glad to spend a little, to get a lot of mileage.

I'm just surprised you could add a 4K video card to a computer that couldn't
handle the Win11 update.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:mcu7kjtttdn0e875dffot5cjhf3ei4mq71@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>> I am showing the benefits of Linux.
>>
>>But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
>>And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
>
>
> Nothing happens without action. You can pay Apple or M$ to do it for
> you, or you can do it yourself. Doing it myself gives me fabulous
> results, within a reasonable budget.

So great you ended up with a system incapable of handling Win11 updates

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:vi1pbt$2o5tj$2@dont-email.me...
> On 11/25/24 2:46 AM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-11-24 20:15, Joel wrote:
>>> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I am showing the benefits of Linux.
>>>>
>>>> But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
>>>> And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing happens without action. You can pay Apple or M$ to do it for
>>> you, or you can do it yourself. Doing it myself gives me fabulous
>>> results, within a reasonable budget.
>>>
>>
>> Results you won't quantify...
>>
>> ...on a budget you won't quantify.
>>
>> Got it.
>
>
> That too, but it wasn't really my point here.
>
> Point was the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
> that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.

Yea, like how you couldn't manage to update Win11?

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:p9s8kj1up5qpsn4cekj410aaeiq006so6m@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
>>that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
>>
>>To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
>>his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
>>looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual choke?"
>
>
> I can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and
> higher-end OEMs' offerings. Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to
> save money that way.

Says the person who attempted to drive a 4k monitor with integrated
graphics.....

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:aa09kjhd0a45oerejp8v1lq6d94ddkgfdr@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>> the braggadocio on having to go manually set up a capability
>>>> that mainstream OS users already have, and take for granted.
>>>>
>>>> To use an automotive analogy, its like he's bragging that he upgraded
>>>> his carb to have automatic choke ... not realizing that everyone else
>>>> looks at them, thinking: "there's still cars which have a manual
>>>> choke?"
>>>
>>> I can't imagine how lazy people are, to pay so much for Apple's and
>>> higher-end OEMs' offerings.
>>
>>Some are buying for the actual high-end performance. We've already seen
>>how your claimed "high-end" PC isn't really so high end after all:
>>
>>your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
>>that you've tried to compare your system against,
>
>
> I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
> value. My computer's beginning to age,

Beginning to age??? You realize that you claim to have assembled this
computer in 2021 for Win11.. and did such a wonderful job it couldn't even
handle the updates?
Plus buying a 4K monitor you should have known would be useless for the
configuration you had? Which required to to spend yet MORE to correct.
Then given your claimed usage I have to wonder what you need a 4K monitor
for unless you're looking at internet porn.

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:55v8kjtgs75eev3m4khi5bqvhec7g2180m@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
>>>>>>> Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but
>>>>>>> barely,
>>>>>>> the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet when you bought this PC in 2022 [it was 2021], you didn't
>>>>>> anticipate the
>>>>>> likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died?
>>>>>
>>>>> What difference would that have made?
>>>>
>>>> Because buying a subsystem just once instead of buying it twice may
>>>> mean that you pay less overall: "Lifecyle cost management 101."
>>>
>>> The CPU's video is built into the CPU. It's still there right now, if
>>> I plug a DP cable into the motherboard's video port, but instead I use
>>> the discrete card, now.
>>
>>But since as you've said that its GPU wasn't up to the task, maybe you
>>should have saved $30 upfront and bought the Core i5-10400F instead of
>>the Core i5-10400, so as to not pay for that inadequate integrated GPU?
>>Doing so would have lowered your lifecycle costs.
>
>
> I guess ...
>
>
>>>>>> Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
>>>>>
>>>>> The video card was around $100.
>>>>
>>>> Which gets added to the 2021 base system's price, bringing your total
>>>> invested lifecycle cost to date to be ... how much?
>>>
>>> No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
>>> Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
>>
>>Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
>>you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
>>perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?
>
>
> The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
> purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
> doubling the RAM added a modest amount.

So tell us again how you didn't have enough system to update your Win11.....

"Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:iu09kjht8tkjk9lorpcpgo9ifcte331966@4ax.com...
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>>> [I paid for my computer] No more or less than it's actually worth -
>>>>> which is the point. With
>>>>> Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
>>>> you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
>>>> perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?
>>>
>>> The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
>>> purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
>>> doubling the RAM added a modest amount.
>>
>>So $1000, +$100 for video card, and call it +$50 for +16GB RAM.
>>
>>That sums to $1150.
>>
>>You could have bought a base 2020 Mac Mini M1 for $599, and used the
>>$550 remaining to bump specs, buy other stuff, etc. I don't see good
>>historical MSRPs online at the moment, but I'd figure that $1100 would
>>get to 16GB RAM/512GB SSD, which is still a solid machine today, and
>>includes supporting dual 4K/60Hz monitors.
>
>
> I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
> product key from 2010 would've worked,

Nope, because we all know your feelings on Win7 and how useless it is.

On 2024-11-25, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "chrisv" <chrisv@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:9aq8kjtnd5bs69r2cv74vrf99dt8q0dn30@4ax.com...
>> -hh wrote:
>>
>>> Joel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>>>
>>>When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
>>>
>>>For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
>>>
>>>After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
>>>admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end'
>>>configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
>>
>> Joel is not being fair. But neither is attacking him for adding a
>> video card to his system. There's obviously nothing wrong with such
>> an upgrade.
>
> If you have to replace your video card within 2 years of original then one
> has to question his choice of hardware..
>
> As apparently his hardware was so close to or below minimum requirements
> that he couldn't update Win11 after installing it.

Modern Intel onboard graphics are fine for running 4k monitors.
The exception of course would be high end games run at the highest graphics
level.
I suspect his BIOS was not configured optimally.
Example: how much memory did he dedicate to graphics?
With 32GB he certainly can spare the max.

--
pothead

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Gone"
"Which Old Witch?"
"The Kamala Harris Witch. Of Course!"

On 2024-11-25, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message
> news:vi0s9l$2kdc6$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 2024-11-24 19:48, -hh wrote:
>>> On 11/24/24 9:58 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I'm using about half of my [32 GB] RAM for main memory, with another 8
>>>>>> GB or
>>>>>> so for cache, but not one byte of swap. It's elite.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're 133t, dude!
>>>>>
>>>>> You are so 133t!
>>>>>
>>>>> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
>>>>>
>>>>> ??????????????
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, it is great, because I am showing the benefits of Linux.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But you did have to set that up Linux yourself, right?
>>> And how much time, research, & testing did it take you?
>>>
>>> -hh
>>
>> Apparently not much.
>>
>> He couldn't future-proof his video system.
>
> Heck he didn't even future proof his computer system. Remember his system
> was inadequate to handle Win11 updates...
>
> ... by his own admission.
>

Along with hh, Alan is destroying the Joel poser.
It's painful to watch.

--
pothead

"Ding Dong The Witch Is Gone"
"Which Old Witch?"
"The Kamala Harris Witch. Of Course!"

On 2024-11-25 10:40, Scout wrote:
>
>
> "Alan" <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote in message news:vhter2$1rdgn$3@dont-
> email.me...
>> On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
>>> Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
>>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>> news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt.  M$ is bad enough, but at least their
>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>>>> that it's Unix.
>>>>
>>>> But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and cloak
>>>> your use of social media ebonics.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would not know about that BS.  However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
>>> Linux.  I created a Web app for it. :)
>>>
>>
>> So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
>> computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
>> necessary.
>>
>> There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
>> distributor-using cars, too.
>>
>> But most people want to just get in and drive.
>
> ROTFLMAO.. Nailed it
>
>

And I say this as the guy who had to choose between continuing to drive
his carbureted, points ignition Formula Ford (now actually "Formula F";
see below)...

....but who instead paid a premium (shock, I know!) for a more seamless
experience driving a Formula F HONDA with the ECU-driven Honda Fit
engine instead!

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>>>>> When I built the computer, the old monitor was still in use.
>>>>>> Later, I bought a 4K monitor. The CPU's video handled it but barely,
>>>>>> the NVIDIA card made it work more smoothly.
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet when you bought this PC in 2022 [it was 2021], you didn't anticipate the
>>>>> likelihood of getting a 4K display to replace the 1080p when it died?
>>>>
>>>> What difference would that have made?
>>>
>>> Because buying a subsystem just once instead of buying it twice may
>>> mean that you pay less overall: "Lifecyle cost management 101."
>>
>> The CPU's video is built into the CPU. It's still there right now, if
>> I plug a DP cable into the motherboard's video port, but instead I use
>> the discrete card, now.
>
>But since as you've said that its GPU wasn't up to the task, maybe you
>should have saved $30 upfront and bought the Core i5-10400F instead of
>the Core i5-10400, so as to not pay for that inadequate integrated GPU?
>Doing so would have lowered your lifecycle costs.

I guess ...

>>>>> Remind us again for just much money you have sunk into it already?
>>>>
>>>> The video card was around $100.
>>>
>>> Which gets added to the 2021 base system's price, bringing your total
>>> invested lifecycle cost to date to be ... how much?
>>
>> No more or less than it's actually worth - which is the point. With
>> Apple, I'd pay more up front, whether I needed it or not.
>
>Yup, yet another dodge. Is it because you really don't know how much
>you spent, or you simply know that you're going to get critiqued (and
>perhaps slaughtered) if you do say how much?

The parts, initially, were around $800. I had also separately
purchased a Windows Pro license for $200. Adding the video card and
doubling the RAM added a modest amount.

>>>> 32 GB is about right, for my usage.
>>>
>>> Not today it isn't: it is still being underutilized at ~3 years system
>>> age, which undermines your claimed argument of the value of moduarlity
>>> for lower lifecycle costs. Looks like you were 5+ years too early in
>>> spending money for RAM that you won't really need until after 2027.
>>
>> As my computer stays booted up, RAM use approaches the full quantity,
>> including cache. I watch this in System Monitor.
>
>Still doesn't matter: if you're never hitting swap, its an excess
>capability that 3 years after purchase you *still* didn't need to invest
>in yet. As such, you've violated the very reason for why you claimed
>that a user-upgradable modular system is worth more to you.

If I had 16 GB, it'd be using swap regularly.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

pothead wrote:

> Scout wrote:
>>
>> -highhorse wrote:
>>>
>>> After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
>>> admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end'
>>> configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
>>
>> -hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
>
>Indeed!
>+1
>
>Just like one of those Russian hypersonic missiles.

You're not being consistent with your earlier (and correct) comment
regarding the Intel graphics. Unless he's doing something graphically
intensive, Joel's 10th-gen i5 should have no trouble driving a 4k
monitor.

At this point of this debate, neither side is being completely
reasonable. Typical usenet, in other workds.

--
"Way to miss the point, which was that the FOSS model is at risk of a
catastrophic failure because the 'center cannot hold' when the status
quo is that there's far too many freeloaders who never pay" - lying
asshole "-hh"

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>>> your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
>>> that you've tried to compare your system against,
>>
>> I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
>> value.
>
>Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to be
>vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.

I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.

>> My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
>> Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
>> new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
>> to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
>
>Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it
>is aging?

I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.

> So just how sure are you now that its going to last as many
>years as you've been hoping it would without several more upgrades, even
>with Linux? Keep in mind that you're already at over $1100 invested &
>counting.

Nothing to indicate I'll need further upgrades, and your figure for
what I've put in seems higher than actual.

>>> plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
>>> video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display, whereas
>>> the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle five.
>>
>> I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that?
>
>That its integral to the CPU doesn't mean that its not a video controller.
>
>> It was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K.
>> Big whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
>
>Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good
>lifecycle management plan there! /s

That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.

>>>> Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
>>>> I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
>>>
>>> Except that you actually haven't done that:
>>>
>>> * you under-specced your video and have replaced it already;
>>>
>>> * you over-specced your RAM, so you paid for it too early
>>> (if you'll ever actually need it).
>>
>> Just false.
>
>You've already told us that you spent $100 to upgrade the video.
>
>You've already told us that you spent some amount (I've assumed $50) to
>increase RAM to 32GB and that its currently not using any swap, which
>means that the extra RAM isn't being used at all.

I regularly use 16 GB for main usage *plus* more for cache, I even
occasionally go slightly over the full 32 GB when both are factored
in, slightly using swap. I *could* actually move to 48 or 64 GB, if I
were obsessed.

>>> It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at the
>>> OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. /s
>>
>> Not remotely.
>
>In your dreams, unfortunately. As I've already noted, you could have
>bought a Mac Mini for less & had comparable/better performing hardware.

But it'd be running macOS. :)

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

-hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:

>> I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
>> product key from 2010 would've worked, because it'd been upgraded on
>> my previous machine. I've since given both keys away, since I have
>> zero intention of ever going back to Winblows.
>
>So that's another 'spent too much' research error on your part. Check.

I don't mind, the keys can be reused by others. It's a minor write-
off, I got my use out of Winblows when I used it, I will never want it
back.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:lsg7kj1k9091m56hlh2nqqoc2ffk1jd58r@4ax.com...
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I [JWC] value my computer. Linux is the best thing to put on it.
>>>>
>>>>As I said: it's a cult where you don't like "corporate" and "commercial".
>>>
>>> Not when such abuse me, right.
>
>I may be mistaken but I seem to remember Joel complaining that Microsoft
>somehow disabled his Windows machine and he was unable to repair it.
>
>Joel appears to be a switch hitter in more ways than one. He uses Windows for
>a while, screws it up somehow then switches to Linux and claims Linux solved
>all of his self inflicted issues.

Utter BS. I made an error with regard to *the specific ways* M$ was
committing fraud on Win10 users, although they still were doing such.
I admitted my error, I regretted it, I went back to using Windows 10
and then 11, too. I gave them every chance in the world. But that's
over. I will never disgrace my precious hardware with Winblows,
again.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> wrote:
>On 2024-11-25, Scout <me4guns@verizon.removeme.this2.nospam.net> wrote:
>> "-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
>> news:vi0rrt$2k5ft$3@dont-email.me...
>>> On 11/24/24 7:54 PM, Joel wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Windows 11 grew in demands on hardware in a mere two years. 21H2 vs.
>>>> 23H2. What the hell is that? Why can't a machine assembled the same
>>>> year, as its initial release, run it, for the full 10 years, without
>>>> being a piece of junk? Fuck M$. Linux FTW.
>>>
>>> When have you ever kept the same hardware configuration for 10 years?
>>>
>>> For that matter, what's the longest that you've gone to date?
>>>
>>> After all, you didn't even go 2 years with your 2022 box, as you've
>>> admitted that you made a video upgrade because its original 'high-end'
>>> configuration couldn't even adequately handle one (1) 4K display.
>>
>> -hh swoops in and nukes the target from orbit...
>
>Indeed!
>+1
>
>Just like one of those Russian hypersonic missiles.

Liars. Fuck off and die. Kill yourselves.

--
Joel W. Crump

Amendment XIV
Section 1.

[...] No state shall make or enforce any law which shall
abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the
United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of
life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal
protection of the laws.

Dobbs rewrites this, it is invalid precedent. States are
liable for denying needed abortions, e.g. TX.

On 11/26/24 8:32 AM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>>> your CPU & Storage benchmarks are literally half of the Apple Studio
>>>> that you've tried to compare your system against,
>>>
>>> I wasn't trying to compare the benchmarks. I was comparing realized
>>> value.
>>
>> Fine, but why did you then compare your system to one that's known to be
>> vastly more capable? Your "Apples vs Oranges" has become deliberate.
>
> I was comparing to an Apple device currently available, that it is
> newer and faster didn't matter, because it was about initial price.

You went upscale instead of choosing one comparable to your PC's i5.

That's like bragging that a Toyota Yaris is cheaper than a Porsche 911
while pretending that no other cars exist in the marketplace.

>>> My computer's beginning to age, and yet because I'm running
>>> Linux, this has no meaning to me. It might as well still be brand
>>> new. Same thing with my Galaxy S21 phone, it's still as good as new
>>> to me, I don't miss gimmicky features that an S24 would offer.
>>
>> Oh, so its just barely 3 years old and you've already noticing that it
>> is aging?
>
> I did after 2 1/2 years with Win11, but I don't with Linux, no.

What changed in your software/useage to have 'degraded' Windows?
I've used Windows for decades: the era of 'bitrot' was circa XP.

>> So just how sure are you now that its going to last as many
>> years as you've been hoping it would without several more upgrades, even
>> with Linux? Keep in mind that you're already at over $1100 invested &
>> counting.
>
> Nothing to indicate I'll need further upgrades, and your figure for
> what I've put in seems higher than actual.

But nothing to indicate that you actually needed the upgrades that
you've already paid for, especially RAM.

And for figure, the only one that isn't directly from what you provided
is the cost of your +16GB RAM upgrade. I estimated it was +$50 for
which you've protested but not provided its actual cost....

....and since that +$50 isn't included in the "$1100 invested" statement
above, you have zero basis to complain: had my estimate for your RAM
upgrade cost had been included, it would have said $1150.

>>>> plus yesterday you revealed that you've already replaced the original
>>>> video controller because it couldn't handle a single 4K display, whereas
>>>> the Mac Studio you've been using to compare yourself to can handle five.
>>>
>>> I didn't have a "video controller", why do you keep saying that?
>>
>> That its integral to the CPU doesn't mean that its not a video controller.
>>
>>> It was just the CPU's video, which was great for 1080p, not for 4K.
>>> Big whoop, the cheap card I got is fine since I don't game.
>>
>> Trailing edge of technology, which you've already paid to replace. Good
>> lifecycle management plan there! /s
>
> That is all nonsense, I liked the i5-10400 without regard to it
> containing basic video, that was something convenient for my old
> monitor, that I had to replace it with a card was no biggie.

Which is you saying that you're not sensitive to a +10% cost increase.

With the prior insensitivity to your $200 Windows license part, you're
at +$300 over, so you're not sensitive to +30% cost increases.

You're not being a particularly value conscious consumer in IRL
practice: so remind us again about why OEM markups are so 'evil'? /s

>>>>> Nor how they buy inferior hardware, to save money that way.
>>>>> I want the best of both worlds - self-assembled.
>>>>
>>>> Except that you actually haven't done that:
>>>>
>>>> * you under-specced your video and have replaced it already;
>>>>
>>>> * you over-specced your RAM, so you paid for it too early
>>>> (if you'll ever actually need it).
>>>
>>> Just false.
>>
>> You've already told us that you spent $100 to upgrade the video.
>>
>> You've already told us that you spent some amount (I've assumed $50) to
>> increase RAM to 32GB and that its currently not using any swap, which
>> means that the extra RAM isn't being used at all.
>
> I regularly use 16 GB for main usage *plus* more for cache, I even
> occasionally go slightly over the full 32 GB when both are factored
> in, slightly using swap. I *could* actually move to 48 or 64 GB, if I
> were obsessed.

Merely allocating doesn't mean that it actually gets used: what was your
swap performance metric *before* you chose to drop money on a RAM
upgrade? Because without evidence of a performance degradation, you're
again gratuitously spending your money to solve a non-problem.

>>>> It raises the question of just maybe perhaps the professionals at the
>>>> OEMs are just slightly better at this stuff than you personally are. /s
>>>
>>> Not remotely.
>>
>> In your dreams, unfortunately. As I've already noted, you could have
>> bought a Mac Mini for less & had comparable/better performing hardware.
>
>
> But it'd be running macOS. :)
>

Because no Mac ever has been able to run Linux? Pull my other leg.
Now granted, there are some reports that there's not a great version of
Linux for running on the M4 CPUs, but one can always run Linux in a VM
under MacOS ... I've found that Windows11 does fine this way.

-hh

On 11/26/24 8:35 AM, Joel wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>
>>> I didn't even need the Win10 license, it turned out, my Win7 Pro
>>> product key from 2010 would've worked, because it'd been upgraded on
>>> my previous machine. I've since given both keys away, since I have
>>> zero intention of ever going back to Winblows.
>>
>> So that's another 'spent too much' research error on your part. Check.
>
>
> I don't mind, the keys can be reused by others. It's a minor write-
> off, I got my use out of Winblows when I used it, I will never want it
> back.

That you "don't mind" means ...

....that you're okay with spending 20% more than you really have to(!).

-hh

"-hh" <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> wrote in message
news:vi2pd5$30kcv$1@dont-email.me...
> On 11/25/24 1:42 PM, Scout wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Joel" <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:o6h4kjd3rdakap493chs9dulrbmvr8qfqf@4ax.com...
>>> Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
>>>> On 2024-11-23 12:27, Joel wrote:
>>>>> Wayne <wayne@ksu.e_> wrote:
>>>>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>> news:br74kjtprmoc2pmmmhdqpmn79jnpuuuvve@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Apple is the enemy, to be blunt. M$ is bad enough, but at least
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> shit is advanced on its own merits, macOS is only that to the extent
>>>>>>> that it's Unix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But, but, Apple AI can rewrite a three sentence email for you and
>>>>>> cloak
>>>>>> your use of social media ebonics.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would not know about that BS. However, I have M$'s Copilot, in
>>>>> Linux. I created a Web app for it. :)
>>>>
>>>> So you can do something that 99.9% of the people who do want to use a
>>>> computer could never do, because they lack the time to learn the skill
>>>> necessary.
>>>>
>>>> There are people who do all the work on their own carbureted and
>>>> distributor-using cars, too.
>>>>
>>>> But most people want to just get in and drive.
>>>
>>>
>>> You're making my case, yep, people who refuse to learn anything get
>>> what they get. Which is paying money. They pay it for tech support,
>>> repairs, on and on. I rely on myself, and get incredible value for
>>> the dollar.
>>
>> And yet, I bet you spent more on your system than I have on mine... which
>> you assert is junk purely because I have no use for Linux.
>
> Well, based on what Joel has finally dribbled out, he's admitted so far to
> have spent at least $1100, plus a 16GB RAM upgrade...I SWAG'ed that to be
> worth ~$50, but he protested that as apparently too high.
>
> But until Joel coughs up a hard number, I'd say he's at $1150.
>
> Plus there's also a new 4K monitor that replaced an old legacy 1080p that
> apparently died sometime after 2021. If one is comparing his desktop to a
> notebook, its cost would arguably have to be added in too.
>
> -hh

My current system:
Case: $90 (new)
Motherboard: $75 (used)
CPU: $125 (used)
Memory: $35 (reused assume 1/2 price )
NVMe - $90? (new)
SSD - (reused assume 1/2 price $70)
Harddrive - (recovered from old computer system) ($0)
Monitor - Salvage (company was throwing them out) ($0)
Keyboard - See above ($0)
Mouse -($15)
Speakers - ($10)
Cables - (Salvage/Reuse) ($0)
Video Card - ($89)
Power Supply - ($55)
Software - Existing ($0)

Total: around $654 give or take.

Biggest expenses CPU, New Case w/ Power supply, primary storage and Video
Card.
Everything else was used, reused, or recycled.

Motherboard: Asus Z170I
CPU: i7-7700k
NVMe - 1TB (500GB Win7 & 500GB Win11)
SSD - 750GB
Harddrive - 3TB
Memory - 8GB

Unlike Joel I actually reused/recycled/reclaimed components that otherwise
would have ended up as eWaste

Not a super system, but superb for normal work and some moderate gaming.

About the only software that isn't reused is Win11. I think that was $80 for
the license and time to download from MS.

I also have a second system for the hotel which has twice the memory, larger
drives, and a better video card.
I would put that one at around $850. Most of price increase would be in the
video card and memory.