In a recent thread on using Windows to format brand new Android sdcards,
it turned out formatting to exFAT with the same volume label worked well:

*Using Windows to make Android smoother*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=82342&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#82342>
<https://i.postimg.cc/dVtqQ9dX/sd01.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/dVtqQ9dX/sd01.jpg> What sdcard brand do you buy?
<https://i.postimg.cc/fWX7wzcg/filesys.jpg> Recommend format to 0000-0001
<https://i.postimg.cc/xTHbYfZ5/populate-sd.jpg> Resulting in seamless swap
<https://i.postimg.cc/dt3BBT9K/externalsdcard.jpg> Android garbage

The knowledge learned in that astoundingly seamless swap of a three-year
old 64GB sdcard to a brand new 128GB card begat a garbage-directory query:
*Why is Android creating (garbage?) external sdcard directories?*
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=55349&group=comp.mobile.android#55349>

Where I need to now understand more about how you recommend Windows format.

Since Amazon Vine keeps shipping me hundreds of dollars of 'free stuff'
every day, I decided to use the extra two sdcards in some of the solar
panel Wi-Fi security cameras that I have piling up outside my doorstep.
<https://amazon.com/vine>

None of the dozen or so security cameras Amazon shipped me seem to accept
an exFat-formatted sdcard - they're all stuck on the old FAT32 format.

Hence the question... *Q: How do "you" format to FAT32 on Windows?*

Here's what I did (after googling to see what the answer might be):
*How to Format exFAT to FAT32: A Step-by-Step Guide*
<https://www.grdian.com/resources/how-to-format-exfat-to-fat32-a-step-by-step-guide>

That recommends using the GUI version of the Windows Fat32Format command:
<http://ridgecrop.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm>
Where the canonical site for the FAT32 GUI Format seems to be in the UK:
<http://ridgecrop.co.uk/fat32format.htm>
With instructions for how to format to FAT 32 using the GUI over here:
<http://ridgecrop.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm>

OK. I did that. I noticed one oddity which was the FAT32 volume label
wouldn't take dashes (whereas all my sdcards are formatted to "0000-0001").
<https://i.postimg.cc/nz7XqWpC/fat32.jpg>

I do that to enable me to know already the full path to anywhere on the
sdcard (as otherwise it would be something like "/storage/F3CD-A9B7"),
and to enable "It just Works!" smooth sdcard portability between phones.

So, unfortunately, the FAT32 volume label turned out to be "00000001",
which means I probably shouldn't have bothered - I should likely have made
it something like "CAMERA" so that it's portable among all cameras.

Having not touched FAT32 for, oh, I don't know how long, decades perhaps, I
would like to ask 2 fundamental questions when dealing with security cams.

1. What program on Windows do you use to format camera sdcards to FAT32?
2. Since new sdcards have dashes by default, why does FAT32 not allow them?

Andrews wrote on Fri, 1 Nov 2024 15:01:23 -0000 (UTC) :

> 1. What program on Windows do you use to format camera sdcards to FAT32?
> 2. Since new sdcards have dashes by default, why does FAT32 not allow them?

Oops. Please ignore this for Android.

I don't use a newsreader, so I manually type in the newsgroups, and I had
cut and pasted them off a previous thread, where I should have manually
removed the Android newsgroup as this question is only about Wi-Fi cameras.

Although...

.... all these free Wi-Fi cameras piling up on my doorstep from Amazon Vine
seem to all use mainly iOS/Android mobile devices to control them...

.... so that part of the issue related to Android - but I'll remove Android
from the Windows' responses as formatting to FAT32 doesn't involve Android.

Apologies.

On Fri, 11/1/2024 11:01 AM, Andrews wrote:
> In a recent thread on using Windows to format brand new Android sdcards,
> it turned out formatting to exFAT with the same volume label worked well:
>
> *Using Windows to make Android smoother*
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=82342&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#82342>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVtqQ9dX/sd01.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVtqQ9dX/sd01.jpg> What sdcard brand do you buy?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fWX7wzcg/filesys.jpg> Recommend format to 0000-0001
> <https://i.postimg.cc/xTHbYfZ5/populate-sd.jpg> Resulting in seamless swap
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dt3BBT9K/externalsdcard.jpg> Android garbage
> The knowledge learned in that astoundingly seamless swap of a three-year
> old 64GB sdcard to a brand new 128GB card begat a garbage-directory query:
> *Why is Android creating (garbage?) external sdcard directories?*
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?id=55349&group=comp.mobile.android#55349>
>
> Where I need to now understand more about how you recommend Windows format.
>
> Since Amazon Vine keeps shipping me hundreds of dollars of 'free stuff'
> every day, I decided to use the extra two sdcards in some of the solar
> panel Wi-Fi security cameras that I have piling up outside my doorstep.
> <https://amazon.com/vine>
>
> None of the dozen or so security cameras Amazon shipped me seem to accept
> an exFat-formatted sdcard - they're all stuck on the old FAT32 format.
>
> Hence the question... *Q: How do "you" format to FAT32 on Windows?*
>
> Here's what I did (after googling to see what the answer might be):
> *How to Format exFAT to FAT32: A Step-by-Step Guide*
> <https://www.grdian.com/resources/how-to-format-exfat-to-fat32-a-step-by-step-guide>
>
> That recommends using the GUI version of the Windows Fat32Format command:
> <http://ridgecrop.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm>
> Where the canonical site for the FAT32 GUI Format seems to be in the UK:
> <http://ridgecrop.co.uk/fat32format.htm>
> With instructions for how to format to FAT 32 using the GUI over here:
> <http://ridgecrop.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm>
>
> OK. I did that. I noticed one oddity which was the FAT32 volume label
> wouldn't take dashes (whereas all my sdcards are formatted to "0000-0001").
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nz7XqWpC/fat32.jpg>
>
> I do that to enable me to know already the full path to anywhere on the
> sdcard (as otherwise it would be something like "/storage/F3CD-A9B7"), and to enable "It just Works!" smooth sdcard portability between phones.
>
> So, unfortunately, the FAT32 volume label turned out to be "00000001",
> which means I probably shouldn't have bothered - I should likely have made
> it something like "CAMERA" so that it's portable among all cameras.
>
> Having not touched FAT32 for, oh, I don't know how long, decades perhaps, I
> would like to ask 2 fundamental questions when dealing with security cams.
>
> 1. What program on Windows do you use to format camera sdcards to FAT32?
> 2. Since new sdcards have dashes by default, why does FAT32 not allow them?

Windows 11 has the 32GB volume size limit removed.

This ONLY works from the command line ("format". Disk Management still has the old limit.
And then, there is the issue of WHICH VERSION of Windows 11 has this change.
It could be 24H2. Which a person could get via an Upgrade Install, if they
were in a rush to get that OS version.

# User succeeding on large device, on Windows Insider 11 version...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVCoA-DWYAAzCSy?format=jpg&name=small

Otherwise, you would use fat32format from RidgeCrop Consultants.
I have done 2TB disks with this, purely to test that it works :-)
Who can resist a bar bet.

Name: fat32format.exe
Size: 49218 bytes (48 KiB)
SHA256: D5320A127374AF23139730F0D01AEE8195E5FE15B63C35D48D80930ABBF7F5CB

You can format an entire 2TB hard drive as FAT32. The cluster
size will be big, but... so what. It's unlikely, for a 12Meg camera
or a 50Meg camera, that a picture will be housed in a single cluster.
It's going to take multiple clusters, so the efficiency issue
isn't all that bad. If you were storing 2KB text files, then the
efficiency of the cluster size would be more of an issue.

Even ExFAT isn't exactly going to have zero overhead. Check
your cluster size on it and see.

The 4GB max size of file on FAT32, means handling problems.
You could use any ZIP application, in segmented mode and Store mode,
to chop a file into byte sized chunks, with no translation overhead.
You could take a 7GB Hollywood movie, and after ZIP Store was finished,
it would become a 4GB and a 3GB file (no total size change), and the max
size is passed as an argument to ZIP to chop it into a particular size.
People have various opinions on what is a "safe" size for chopping.
Using 1GB chunks is conservative and safe, and stays well away from
the 4GB minus one byte limitation of FAT32.

Notice that the RidgeCrop utility, doesn't have a volume name param.
Normally you don't interact with the cluster size, either. It makes
it "big enough for the job". A small disk gets a small cluster. A 2TB
disk gets a max sized cluster (the cluster limit).

PS> fat32format.exe /?
Usage Fat32Format X:
Erase all data on disk X:, format it for FAT32
It is also possible to specify a cluster size for the disk, e.g
Fat32Format -c1 X: - use 1 sector per cluster ( max size 137GB for 512 bytes per sect)
Fat32Format -c2 X: - use 2 sectors per cluster ( max size 274GB for 512 bytes per sect )
Fat32Format -c4 X: - use 4 sectors per cluster ( max size 549GB ... )
Fat32Format -c8 X: - use 8 sectors per cluster ( max size 1TB ... )
Fat32Format -c16 X: - use 16 sectors per cluster
Fat32Format -c32 X: - use 32 sectors per cluster
Fat32Format -c64 X: - use 64 sectors per cluster
Fat32Format -c128 X: - use 128 sectors per cluster (64K clusters)
Version 1.07, see http://www.ridgecrop.demon.co.uk/fat32format.htm
This software is covered by the GPL
Use with care - Ridgecrop are not liable for data lost using this tool

*******

As a general principle, for camera devices you let the camera itself
format the media. The assumption is, the camera is well designed enough,
to make a format the camera itself can read :-) There have been
occasional reports of "I formatted my SD in my OS, and plugged it into
my new camera, and the camera won't write it". The mistake in that
case, is you were supposed to look up in the camera manual, which
OSD menu item has the format function in it. My camera only uses up to
32GB media, so the cluster size never goes to max. The hardware standard
on the SD interface, is wrong for the largest media available today.
Modern cameras take bigger media than my old camera.

A smartphone is unlikely to have exactly the same sort of issues
that digital cameras have had in the past. The DCIM is a "virtual" one in
a sense, and there are fewer digital-camera-like issues there.

Cameras can be bastards. I picked up a really old digital camera
off the table, and noticed the time clock on it was wrong. I
attempted to set the clock. I hit the "save" button, the camera
died instantly, never started again after that. Black screen.
This is my Picard FacePalm face. If I'd only known this was
a possible outcome, I would have left the damn time setting alone :-)
There isn't a milligram of tech info about that camera on the
web, so I have no where to start on figuring out whether it's
possible to fix it (for nostalgia reasons).

Paul

On 11/01/2024 11:01 AM, Andrews wrote:
> In a recent thread on using Windows to format brand new Android sdcards,
> it turned out formatting to exFAT with the same volume label worked well:
>
> *Using Windows to make Android smoother*
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?
> id=82342&group=alt.comp.os.windows-10#82342>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVtqQ9dX/sd01.jpg>
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dVtqQ9dX/sd01.jpg> What sdcard brand do you buy?
> <https://i.postimg.cc/fWX7wzcg/filesys.jpg> Recommend format to 0000-0001
> <https://i.postimg.cc/xTHbYfZ5/populate-sd.jpg> Resulting in seamless swap
> <https://i.postimg.cc/dt3BBT9K/externalsdcard.jpg> Android garbage
> The knowledge learned in that astoundingly seamless swap of a three-year
> old 64GB sdcard to a brand new 128GB card begat a garbage-directory query:
> *Why is Android creating (garbage?) external sdcard directories?*
> <https://www.novabbs.com/computers/article-flat.php?
> id=55349&group=comp.mobile.android#55349>
>
> Where I need to now understand more about how you recommend Windows format.
>
> Since Amazon Vine keeps shipping me hundreds of dollars of 'free stuff'
> every day, I decided to use the extra two sdcards in some of the solar
> panel Wi-Fi security cameras that I have piling up outside my doorstep.
> <https://amazon.com/vine>
>
> None of the dozen or so security cameras Amazon shipped me seem to accept
> an exFat-formatted sdcard - they're all stuck on the old FAT32 format.
>
> Hence the question... *Q: How do "you" format to FAT32 on Windows?*
>
> Here's what I did (after googling to see what the answer might be):
> *How to Format exFAT to FAT32: A Step-by-Step Guide*
> <https://www.grdian.com/resources/how-to-format-exfat-to-fat32-a-step-
> by-step-guide>
>
> That recommends using the GUI version of the Windows Fat32Format command:
> <http://ridgecrop.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm>
> Where the canonical site for the FAT32 GUI Format seems to be in the UK:
> <http://ridgecrop.co.uk/fat32format.htm>
> With instructions for how to format to FAT 32 using the GUI over here:
> <http://ridgecrop.co.uk/index.htm?guiformat.htm>
>
> OK. I did that. I noticed one oddity which was the FAT32 volume label
> wouldn't take dashes (whereas all my sdcards are formatted to "0000-0001").
> <https://i.postimg.cc/nz7XqWpC/fat32.jpg>
>
> I do that to enable me to know already the full path to anywhere on the
> sdcard (as otherwise it would be something like "/storage/F3CD-A9B7"),
> and to enable "It just Works!" smooth sdcard portability between phones.
>
> So, unfortunately, the FAT32 volume label turned out to be "00000001",
> which means I probably shouldn't have bothered - I should likely have made
> it something like "CAMERA" so that it's portable among all cameras.
>
> Having not touched FAT32 for, oh, I don't know how long, decades perhaps, I
> would like to ask 2 fundamental questions when dealing with security cams.
>
> 1. What program on Windows do you use to format camera sdcards to FAT32?
> 2. Since new sdcards have dashes by default, why does FAT32 not allow them?
I do not have a security camera, but have had several digital cameras
and a couple of trail cameras. While the cards can be read in Windows,
and you can write to them; all of the vendors recommend that you let the
camera format the card, rather that do it in a computer.

Andrews <andrews@spam.net> wrote:

<back to the subject>

> Hence the question... *Q: How do "you" format to FAT32 on Windows?*
> ...
> Having not touched FAT32 for, oh, I don't know how long, decades
> perhaps, I would like to ask 2 fundamental questions when dealing
> with security cams.
>
> 1. What program on Windows do you use to format camera sdcards to
> FAT32?
> 2. Since new sdcards have dashes by default, why does FAT32
> not allow them?

For a 64GB micro SD card, Windows's built-in format offered only NTFS
and exFAT. I'm back on Windows 10, one of the newsgroups to which you
cross-posted, which has the 32GB limit for its own formatter. As Paul
mentioned, an probably for some minimum build version, Windows 11
removed the artificial limit of 32GB. File systems can exceed what an
OS will support. You can try to up capacity by changing to a larger
sector size (allocation unit), but can run into problems using other
disk tools that expect only the default sector size.

I needed FAT32 for the device where the uSD card gets used. I had
Easeus Partition Manager installed already, but it failed to format
citing errors (but not specifying what they were). I discovered the
problem was Easeus was defaulting to a logical partition (which is an
extension to a primary partition) instead of defaulting to a primary
partition, even after I had previously deleted the only partition on the
uSD card. Easeus would work once I went into advanced settings of the
format to select primary instead of logical. I ended up uninstalling
Easeus, and going with Minitools' Partition Wizard where I deleted any
existing partition(s), and which properly defaulted to a primary
partition, so I didn't have to figure out how to circumvent the format
error. Both Easeus and Minitools have free versions.

I've not used dashes in volume labels for decades. Instead I use camel
case to differentiate between word boundaries. For numbers, well, those
are already distinct from alpha chars. You could try using a period (.)
instead of a dash (-). However, I just tested under Windows 10 Home x64
22H2, and it let me right-click on a drive, Properties, and change the
volume label to include a dash. However, I don't use FAT32 on any of my
drives, and instead use NTFS, so that test was with an NTFS-formatted
drive. I had to dig out an old 32GB USB flash drive: a PNY 32GB.
Right-click on it in File Explorer, Properties. FAT32 formatted.
Changed the volume label from PNY32GBUSB to P-Y32GBUSB. Worked. Don't
know why whatever you used didn't like a dash char in the volume label.

https://www.keil.com/pack/doc/mw6/FileSystem/html/fat_fs.html
Volume label for FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32 volume must be maximum 11
characters long and cannot contain the following characters: * ? / \ | ,
; : + = < > [ ] "" .

Microsoft added exFAT support back in 2006 not to eliminate FAT32, but
to allow larger partition sizes. FAT32 max partition size is 2 TB
(without changing the default 512 byte sector size) with a max file size
of 4 GB minus 1 byte. exFAT is supports possibly bigger partitions and
file sizes, but that doesn't mean an OS does.

That a file partitioning scheme supports a large size does not mean a
formatter does. Win11 upped the partition size, but I think you have to
use the command-line formatter, not the GUI formatter. 3rd-party
partition managers have not had the limit for as long as I can remember.
To get past the 32 GB limit before, I used a 3rd-party formatter. While
Windows won't format bigger, it will support bigger partitions.

FAT32 was the default factory formatting for removable storage -- until
removable storage got much bigger. All formatting schemes have limits.
exFAt has a max partition size of 128 PB. Far larger than anything
available now, but, at one time, all you got for main memory on the mobo
was 640 KB, and had to use memory managers that paged in more RAM.