sms, 2024-10-22 22:05:

> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>
>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>
>> Any idea?
>
> Speaker wattage is about 3W.

So it draws around 1 ampere when running at around 3 volts? Really?

Maybe the theoretical output wattage is 3 watts, but a smartphons
speaker will also just draw a few 100 mA which will be around 0.3 to 1 watts

> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.

No. Depending on how actually use Bluetooth, the power requirements can
be much higher:

<https://novelbits.io/ble-power-consumption-optimization/>

> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.

Wrong assumptions lead to the wrong conclusion.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 04:06:12 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Qihe wrote:

> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
> off".

Thank you for that test article which tested exactly the questions asked.
https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/

"Does turning Bluetooth off save battery?
Does using Bluetooth headphones drain battery?
How much battery does Bluetooth use?"

"The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth consumes
essentially the same amount of power as playing back audio over speakers or
headphones with Bluetooth turned off. On average, our devices recorded just
a 0.2% increase in power consumption when playing back audio over
Bluetooth. So, well into the margin of error territory. "

It was interesting they said "The louder you listen, the greater the
savings become."

On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>
> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>
> Any idea?

Wi-Fi: 30mW typical, 1000mW Max, depending on distance from the hotspot
and speed <https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-12271>

Mobile Data: 50-500mW depending on distance from the tower and speed
<https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-12271>

Bluetooth: 2.5-10mW <https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-12271>

Speaker Wattage (iPhone 14): 3W
<https://startingtodj.com/how-are-phone-speakers-so-loud-how-many-watts/>

Of course if you’re playing the audio through Airpods, or a Bluetooth
speaker, or wired headphones via Lightning or USB, that also uses power,
just from another source.

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>
>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>
>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>
>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>
>>> Do you have a source?
>>
>> Do you to refute?
>
> Tedious attitude.

Yep, your typical participation here.

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> wrote:

> sms, 2024-10-22 22:05:
>
>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>
>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>
>>> Any idea?
>>
>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>
> So it draws around 1 ampere when running at around 3 volts? Really?
>
> Maybe the theoretical output wattage is 3 watts, but a smartphons
> speaker will also just draw a few 100 mA which will be around 0.3 to 1 watts
>
>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>
> No. Depending on how actually use Bluetooth, the power requirements can
> be much higher:
>
> <https://novelbits.io/ble-power-consumption-optimization/>

That article addresses power consumption at the BLE device, not at the
smartphone powering its BT radio. In the phone, not in the BT devices,
does the BT radio in the phone consume more power when a BT device is
connected to the phone's BT radio? I would think the BT radio might
also go to sleep unless there was a connected BT device yet I don't
recall reading that BT lets the radio in the phone know when a BT device
is asleep, just that a BT device is connected.

>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>
> Wrong assumptions lead to the wrong conclusion.

But a BLE headset is not drawing power from the smartphone. BT at the
phone is sending a radio signal, not transmitting power over the air.
The BLE device itself, like a BT headset, has its own battery.

While the OP could turn off the BT radio in his smartphone when using
the phone's speakers, most likely he leave BT always enabled. So, while
using the speakers, his phone is still powering the BT radio. He is
consuming power for both components in his phone.

The OP should check how long his BT headset lasts to know if it will
last for the duration of his trips. If not, he could use the BT headset
until its battery went dead, and then switch to the phone's speaker
assuming he doesn't care about annoying others with his noise.

Presumably the OP has a smartphone with no headphone jack. My old phone
does. My expectation is that a headset connected to a headphone jack
consumes less power than the speakers in the phone if only in having to
use less power to move the speaker's diaphragm less distance to effect
the same volume level in your ears. Likely the OP doesn't have a
headphone jack, and why he asks about speakers versus BT headset.

I don't believe the OP was asking about how much the BLE device's
battery got consumed during its use, but rather the impact on the
phone's battery up-time when using its BT radio. Since RF isn't being
used to transmit power to the BLE device, just a signal, the impact of
BT usage in the phone's power consumption would be between its sleep and
active modes. A BLE headset would consume much less power from its
power source than a BT boombox from its power source, but neither is
using the phone's battery other than keeping the phone's BT radio
active.

I can use a flashlight to operate a photoelectric cell that rings a
doorbell or engages a garage door opener. The flashlight's power
consumption is not affected by the power needs of the doorbell or garage
door opener. Only being off or on affects the flashlight's battery
life. Obviously the longer the flashlight is on means more total
battery drain, the the devices the flashlight triggered do not affect
the drain on the flashlight in its on-state.

On 10/23/2024 5:57 AM, VanguardLH wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> Tedious attitude.
>
> Yep, your typical participation here.

Usenet filters are your friend!

Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> ha scritto:

> Qihe, 2024-10-23 00:34:
>
>> Jörg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.net> ha scritto:
>>>
>>> When I used podcasts they were usually downloaded and could be played
>>> any time without a internet connection. That makes them interesting for
>>> longer flights or ship travelling. And many users build libraries of
>>> podcasts.
>>>
>> And this is also far less environmental impact than streaming.
>> People should do the same with any media content (video tutorials
>> on YouTube, music, movies...)
>> That's also why real FM radio is better than webradio.
>
> Well - there is no big difference if you download 100 MB as one file or
> stream it using HLS with smaller segments. In the end you will download
> 100 MB data.

You are right... if you are going to stream it only once.
If you are going to play it several times, streaming gets worst
than downloading.

> But on the other hand using data media like CD/DVD/BD
> was also not ideal since these media had to be produced first.
>
There must be few giga free on your private storage. Anyway usb
sticks, memory cards... are not throwaway items.

--
Qihe

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> ha scritto:

> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 04:06:12 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Qihe wrote:
>
>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>> off".
>
> Thank you for that test article which tested exactly the questions asked.
> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>
> "Does turning Bluetooth off save battery?
> Does using Bluetooth headphones drain battery?
> How much battery does Bluetooth use?"
>
> "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth consumes
> essentially the same amount of power as playing back audio over speakers or
> headphones with Bluetooth turned off. On average, our devices recorded just
> a 0.2% increase in power consumption when playing back audio over
> Bluetooth. So, well into the margin of error territory. "
>
> It was interesting they said "The louder you listen, the greater the
> savings become."
>

If you stay 7 feet far from your Bluetooth earbuds you wont
listen better than staying 7 feet far from the speakers.

--
Qihe

On 2024-10-22 19:41, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>
>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>
>>>> Any idea?
>>>
>>> Too marginal to say definitively. It might make a difference if you
>>> routinely turn off BT when using the internal speaker, but most people
>>> don't.
>>>
>>> The best way to save power is use airplane mode which turns off the mobile
>>> radio.
>>
>> But no cellular radio (for data aka Internet) means no podcast. The OP
>> isn't listening to local audio files on his phone. He is listening to a
>> podcast, and that requires Internet access which requires the cellular
>> radio for data. I suppose he could be using an app to first download a
>> podcast to save to a local file on his phone, but he didn't mention how
>> is is listening to the podcast: locally downloaded file, or streaming
>> from Internet.
>
> I haven't used podcasts in a while, but when I still did, downloading
> (in MP3 format) was the normal way, i.e. not streaming and no Internet
> needed to play.

Not if you use any regular podcast application for mobile phones.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-10-23 08:27, Chris wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/22/24 7:06 PM, Qihe wrote:
>>> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>>> off".
>>
>> Why not obviate the battery problem by putting the podcasts on a USB
>> stick plugged into the AUX socket?
>
> You're assuming they're (1) in a vehicle and (2) where that is possible.

There are many stand alone BT speakers (the OP is using one) which also
have an USB socket.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>
>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>
>>>> Any idea?
>>>
>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>
>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>
>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>
>> Do you have a source?
>
> Do you to refute?

I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-10-23 08:27, Chris wrote:
> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>>>
>>> --
>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>> off".
>
> I also saw that. Interesting. Thanks.
>
> I did suspect sms's claim was way off.

I do not know the wattage of the speakers in a phone, but I suspect it
can be near 1 W, because that's the power of a traditional small
speaker. However, phone speakers are far cousins of standard speakers.
They produce an amazing volume with amazing reliability for something
that small.

I guess the result of the experiment varies with the volume of the
speaker. Was the user close to the speaker?

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-10-23 05:32, micky wrote:
> In comp.mobile.android, on Tue, 22 Oct 2024 02:15:46 -0400, Bill Powell
> <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>
>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>
>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>
>> Any idea?
>
> No, but I have 3 more questions.
>
> If you leave your bluetooth on all the time, how much does it use when
> it's transmitting a signal versus when it's doing nothing?
>
> Does it use more to transmit music than talk?
> To transmit loud music than soft music?

The later, no.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH <V@nguard.lh> wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>
>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>
>>>> Any idea?
>>>
>>> Too marginal to say definitively. It might make a difference if you
>>> routinely turn off BT when using the internal speaker, but most people
>>> don't.
>>>
>>> The best way to save power is use airplane mode which turns off the mobile
>>> radio.
>>
>> But no cellular radio (for data aka Internet) means no podcast. The OP
>> isn't listening to local audio files on his phone. He is listening to a
>> podcast, and that requires Internet access which requires the cellular
>> radio for data. I suppose he could be using an app to first download a
>> podcast to save to a local file on his phone, but he didn't mention how
>> is is listening to the podcast: locally downloaded file, or streaming
>> from Internet.
>
> I haven't used podcasts in a while, but when I still did, downloading
> (in MP3 format) was the normal way, i.e. not streaming and no Internet
> needed to play.
>
> Wikipedia implies that's still the case:
>
> 'Podcast'
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podcast>
>
> "A podcast is a program made available in digital format for download
> over the Internet."

https://independentpodcast.network/training/what-is-the-difference-between-podcast-streams-and-downloads/

Yep, the OP didn't specify how his listens to them. I used to listen to
podcasts, but I did not retain them. I had no want for a local library
of podcasts, or to repurpose the content. Retention was not a goal, for
me, so I didn't need to waste storage space on a podcast that would
never be re-listened. I don't hoard media. Some folks do. Different
goals for different folks.

Downloading affords listening where streaming is not available, but
podcasts, to me, are very nonessential, and usually very uncondensed (to
long to get the info). If I'm out in the boonies camping or hiking, I'm
not ruining the ambience with noise from my phone which is likley turned
off, anyway; i.e., I unplug. I can entertain myself in other ways, or
just snooze on a long trip, or think through projects or resolutions to
problems or make plans while idle. An issue of Scientific American will
occupy me during both flights for a vacation, and beyond, and I don't
need to download anything, have an Internet connection, or even need
power. I certainly don't want to be a driver distracted by a podcast.
Unless someone else is in the car, I rarely turn on my car's radio. I
don't watch movies on a flight even if free. I prefer less noise and
less distraction.

Podcasts never seemed an efficient means to convey non-fictional
information. I don't do fiction. If I want an audio distraction during
a long trip, it'll be music, and using noise cancelling over-the-ear
headphones: I want to hear the music, not the noise around me.

Even with unlimited data, I never bothered to check which method
(download vs streaming) for podcasts consumed more or less bandwidth.
Podcasts were a short-lived fad with me: lots of noise, too little
information, and too slow to get the information. To me, podcasts
seemed a waste of time, or noisy low-grade content during idle time.
But that's me. It's one of those things I tried, eh, but not great.

Podcast listenership is generally still growing, but I'm not drawn to
the fad. I'm also not into Zoom, Skype, Google Meet, WhatsApp, Teams,
Signal, either, nor into social sites (aka sites for the socially
needy).

https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/fact-sheet/audio-and-podcasting/

I didn't find a fact sheet comparing usage of download versus streaming
for podcasts, but I didn't look very hard. Not a topic of interest to
me.

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 04:06:12 +0200 (GMT+02:00), Qihe wrote:
>
>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>> off".
>
> Thank you for that test article which tested exactly the questions asked.
> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>
> "Does turning Bluetooth off save battery?
> Does using Bluetooth headphones drain battery?
> How much battery does Bluetooth use?"
>
> "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth consumes
> essentially the same amount of power as playing back audio over speakers or
> headphones with Bluetooth turned off. On average, our devices recorded just
> a 0.2% increase in power consumption when playing back audio over
> Bluetooth. So, well into the margin of error territory. "
>
> It was interesting they said "The louder you listen, the greater the
> savings become."

Yeah, I guess once the speaker is functioning the additional minuscule
power required to move it microscopically more, barely registers.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>
>>> Do you to refute?
>>
>> Tedious attitude.
>
> Yep, your typical participation here.

sms shared specific numbers. They are meaningless without a source.

Whether I "refute" the numbers or not doesn't matter.

"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>
>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>
>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>
>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>
>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>
>>> Do you have a source?
>>
>> Do you to refute?
>
> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)

Me, too. I'd like to know the basis for both claims. Alas, there are
so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
employed that the results are unpredictable.

BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive. Batteries in
BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the
battery in a phone. But that's for BLE devices. Unless you turn it
off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode? No, not
when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone
will go into sleep mode.

My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on
the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in
the phone to a BLE device. BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal,
but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes
assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode.
From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not
in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices).

Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device,
but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find:

https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery

The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his
articles is cited. Might be this guy:

https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/

Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth". Not which version of it. He
didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it
supports. We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either.

Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more
when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf. Be interesting to know if loss
of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the
natural drain of the phone's battery.

Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is
consuming power. The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio
protocol stack. There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone
to the BT device. Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to
keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no
traffic is being sent to the endpoints.

https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison

That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT
consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference. Again, we don't know which BT
is involved for the OP. It also mentions packets are sent in bursts
using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the
phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts).

So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE
device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are
several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the
speaker. Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the
phone's battery. While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for
output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100%
efficient), but again affected by the volume level. However, who
listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to
play at low volume? Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to
produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the
speaker in the phone. Heavy bass uses more power. More energy to push
the cone further. Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a
lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same
volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker. Headphones
are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not
have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones
or ear buds. The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger
mass. Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the
speaker(s).

Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average,
but the variables above can produce varying results. Meanwhile the BLE
radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more
than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are
the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over
the time the BLE device is active. There are no bursts with traditional
BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more
power than the internal speaker.

Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone? One. So forget about
stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality. With
headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo.

As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to
compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the
BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption. Play the same media
for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal
speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset.
A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE
is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design. Start with a
fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on
the battery even when idle. The OP needs to determine how his
unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE
headset. There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario.

On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 09:51:17 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

> Yep, the OP didn't specify how his listens to them.

It was a general question where it was about power requirements.
The phone can speak and the phone can throw bluetooth.
Whether or not WiFi is involved wasn't part of the question.

On trips, there are long waits, such as those waiting for a ride.
You're sitting on a bench or in a park or at a bus stop or whatever.

You want to listen to a podcast (whether streaming or prior downloaded).
I don't like earphones. I don't like earpieces. I like real speakers.

I only use earphones when I must use them (when around other people).
Otherwise I greatly prefer my sound to arrive at my ears the natural way.

I have a choice of bluetooth speakers (which have their own power).
Or the phone's speakers (which use up the phone power, of course).

Both use the phone's power to make sound but for different reasons.

The phone has to output to the bluetooth speakers over bluetooth RF.
And the phone has to output to the phone's speakers using audio power.

I wondered which is more efficient for the phone because on long waits,
such as those in airports, train stations, bus stops, and uber stops, you
often do not have easy access to USB power in the waiting spot you're at.

It seems from what one person wrote that the speakers consume much more of
the phone's power but from another reference it seems it's not so much.

It's confusing what the answer is where the reason for the question is that
the phone only has so much power on long trips where there is often a
series of long isolated waiting periods in between transportation types
where you're all alone but nowhere near USB chargers so you listen to
podcasts (whether on cellular data, wifi or not depending on availability).

I asked the question focusing only on the phone power requirements delta
between casting audio over bluetooth versus directly powering speakers.

Bill Powell <bill@anarchists.org> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
>
>> Yep, the OP didn't specify how his listens to them.
>
> It was a general question where it was about power requirements.
> The phone can speak and the phone can throw bluetooth.
> Whether or not WiFi is involved wasn't part of the question.
>
> On trips, there are long waits, such as those waiting for a ride.
> You're sitting on a bench or in a park or at a bus stop or whatever.
>
> You want to listen to a podcast (whether streaming or prior downloaded).
> I don't like earphones. I don't like earpieces. I like real speakers.

But there are BT speakers, too (although you should check your phone
supports BLE, and, if so, get BLE speakers). I've NEVER been impressed
with the audio quality out of a phone's internal speaker. When using a
headset, I get the over-the-ear type with noise cancellation. I want to
hear the audio from the phone, not around me. That does mean you may
not hear the approach of the bus, or announcements over the speakers at
the airport. Of course, that means having to tote around a BLE speaker
to get good sound, and also impinging the ears of others with your
noise, like those insensitive thugs toting around boom boxes to annoy
everyone around them.

If wearing ear buds or headphones is undesirable, use the phone's
speaker, or tote a BLE speaker if you want decent sound without
something in or on your ears. Even a tiny BLE speaker surpasses the
phone's internal speaker. You could use the BLE speaker until its
battery goes dead, and then switch to the phone's speaker since the
phone's battery is still alive.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=ble+speaker

Don't remember the brand and model of my aunt's choice, but it folded
for compact storage (looked like a small folding cup). When expanded,
it had a lot better bass than the phone's speaker. Folded the external
speaker was about the thickness of a hockey puck, but much smaller
diameter. I didn't think much of it until I heard it. Far superior
than the phone's internal speaker.

https://www.amazon.com/POW-Expandable-Wireless-Universal-Compatible/dp/B07NWV79L9
(BT 4.2 is a version of BLE)

Not what she had, but gives you an idea of using an external BLE speaker
instead of the chintzy one in the phone. Hers looked more like:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/404233152689?chn=ps

but hers was cylinderical rather than conical, the the folding sections
slide past each other instead of silicone that crushed.

By the way, to get better sound quality, I've heard that putting the
speaker end of the phone into a cup acts like a passive amplifier and
gives more bass.

https://youtu.be/d-LpPcO0VL4?t=247
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RM_rdw9X0A

Reminds me of the Red Green Show - but wait, no duct tape.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWzPCLcbExo

Seems, to me, a passive amplifier just better exemplifies the poor sound
quality of the phone's speaker while a BLE speaker would produce better
sound. However, with a passive amplifier, you could lower the volume of
the phone's speaker to reduce its power consumption.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>
>>> Do you to refute?
>>
>> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)
>
> Me, too. I'd like to know the basis for both claims. Alas, there are
> so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
> employed that the results are unpredictable.

A perfect link answering the OP's question pretty clearly has been posted.
Could more data be collected? Always, but I'd say there aren't too many
variables.

VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> ha scritto:
> ...
> By the way, to get better sound quality, I've heard that putting the
> speaker end of the phone into a cup acts like a passive amplifier and
> gives more bass.
> ...
>

https://www.vaia.eu/en/product/vaia-cube/

--
Qihe

On 2024-10-23 19:21, VanguardLH wrote:
> "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2024-10-23 03:04, VanguardLH wrote:
>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>
>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>
>>> Do you to refute?
>>
>> I do not refute nor corroborate, so I would like a source either way :-)
>
> Me, too. I'd like to know the basis for both claims. Alas, there are
> so many variables involve with unknown phones and BT/BLE devices
> employed that the results are unpredictable.
>
> BLE devices go into low-power sleep mode when inactive. Batteries in
> BLE devices are typically much smaller (far less capacity) than the
> battery in a phone. But that's for BLE devices. Unless you turn it
> off, does the BT radio in the phone ever go into sleep mode? No, not
> when the phone itself goes into sleep mode, but if the BT radio alone
> will go into sleep mode.

Low power BT does not transmits during silence, AFAIK.

>
> My reading of the OP's inquiry is that he is asking about power drain on
> the phone's battery when using its speakers versus using the BT radio in
> the phone to a BLE device. BT isn't transmitting power, just a signal,
> but the longer the BT radio is active the more power it consumes
> assuming the BT radio in the phone ever goes into low-power sleep mode.
> From what I've found, the BT radio in the phone is either on or off, not
> in a low-power sleep mode (that's just for BT devices).
>
> Since the OP wasn't asking about battery drain on the BT headset device,
> but on the impact to the phone's battery when using BT, I did find:
>
> https://www.seinxon.com/blogs/blog-posts/does-bluetooth-drain-your-battery
>
> The article doesn't give a bio on Robert Triggs, or which of his
> articles is cited. Might be this guy:
>
> https://www.soundguys.com/author/roberttriggs/
>
> Note the OP only mentioned "Bluetooth". Not which version of it. He
> didn't mention his phone, so we cannot lookup what BT versions it
> supports. We don't which versions of BT the BT headset uses, either.

Someone mentioned an app to measure power drain.

>
> Batteries lose capacity (coloumbs) over time even when not use, but more
> when in-circuit than sitting on a shelf. Be interesting to know if loss
> of capacity in the phone's battery from BLE radio usage outstrips the
> natural drain of the phone's battery.
>
> Also remember that it isn't just the BT radio in the phone that is
> consuming power. The CPU needs power to control the radio and the radio
> protocol stack. There is also chatter between the BT radio in the phone
> to the BT device. Once bonded to a BT device, the two endpoints need to
> keep the channel alive by periodically passing packets even when no
> traffic is being sent to the endpoints.
>
> https://www.link-labs.com/blog/bluetooth-zigbee-comparison
>
> That says the BLE radio consumes 10 to 100 mW while traditional BT
> consumes 1 W: 10 to 100 times difference. Again, we don't know which BT
> is involved for the OP. It also mentions packets are sent in bursts
> using BLE, and the BLE device sleeps between bursts (but not if the
> phone's BLE radio sleeps between bursts).
>
> So, then to compare BLE radio power consumption in the phone (to a BLE
> device) versus using the phone's speaker power consumption, there are
> several variable when using the speakers, like the volume level at the
> speaker. Playing at louder volume means more power consumed from the
> phone's battery. While phone speakers may be rated 1.5 to 3W (for
> output power), input power would be higher (no speaker is 100%
> efficient), but again affected by the volume level. However, who
> listens to music by putting their phone's speaker next to their ear to
> play at low volume? Earbuds don't need as nearly as much power to
> produce the same volume level in the ear as opposed to audio from the
> speaker in the phone. Heavy bass uses more power. More energy to push
> the cone further. Speaker sensitivity affects power consumption: a
> lower-power rated speaker that is more efficient can produce the same
> volume as a higher-power rated but less efficient speaker. Headphones
> are more energy efficient than speakers, but the OP probably does not
> have a phone with a headphone jack, and why he asks about BT headphones
> or ear buds. The bigger the speaker, the more energy to move the larger
> mass. Design, components, and usage affect power consumption of the
> speaker(s).
>
> Looks like the phone's internal speaker draws about 8 mW, on average,
> but the variables above can produce varying results. Meanwhile the BLE
> radio in the phone will consume 10 to 100 mW of power which looks more
> than for the internal speaker; however, you'd have to know how often are
> the bursts and sleeps to average out or RMS the power consumption over
> the time the BLE device is active. There are no bursts with traditional
> BT, so that type of radio in the phone would likely use nearly or more
> power than the internal speaker.
>
> Besides, how many speakers are there in a phone? One. So forget about
> stereo (left vs right) spatial differentiation in audio quality. With
> headphones (via jack or BT), you get stereo.

No, my phone does have stereo speakers, but you have to turn it 90
degrees (to horizontal).

>
> As others mentioned, probably the best way to gauge power consumption to
> compare internal speakers against whatever BT version is used to the
> BT/BLE headset is to monitor battery consumption. Play the same media
> for the same length of time, like 1 to 4 hours, once using the internal
> speaker (with BT turned off) and another time using the BT/BLE headset.
> A lot depends on volume level, density of the media, whether BT or BLE
> is used, efficiency of the speaker and circuit design. Start with a
> fully charged phone battery each time to obviate the natural drain on
> the battery even when idle. The OP needs to determine how his
> unidentified phone with its speakers fairs against using a BT/BLE
> headset. There are a LOT of variables in a vague scenario.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 10/22/24 11:27 PM, Chris wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/22/24 7:06 PM, Qihe wrote:
>>> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>>> off".
>>
>> Why not obviate the battery problem by putting the podcasts on a USB
>> stick plugged into the AUX socket?
>
> You're assuming they're (1) in a vehicle and (2) where that is possible.

(1) Indeed. I posit that "long trip" implies a car rather than a set of
portable bluetooth speakers. (2) I would be willing to bet that any car
with a bluetooth connection to a phone will also have an AUX connection.
Maybe also a CD player.

--
Cheers, Bev
Lawyering: the only profession that if you
didn't have it you wouldn't need it.

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/22/24 11:27 PM, Chris wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/22/24 7:06 PM, Qihe wrote:
>>>> Qihe <Q@invalid.invalid> ha scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/21/2024 11:15 PM, Bill Powell wrote:
>>>>>>>> Which uses less of the phone's battery power on long trips?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with the Android speaker as the output?
>>>>>>>> Playing long podcasts with a Bluetooth speaker as the output instead?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any idea?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaker wattage is about 3W.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bluetooth uses about 2.5mW.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the speaker uses more than 3000x the power.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have a source?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.androidauthority.com/does-bluetooth-drain-battery-1145853/
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>> They say: "The results show that playing back audio over Bluetooth
>>>> consumes essentially the same amount of power as playing back
>>>> audio over speakers or headphones with Bluetooth turned
>>>> off".
>>>
>>> Why not obviate the battery problem by putting the podcasts on a USB
>>> stick plugged into the AUX socket?
>>
>> You're assuming they're (1) in a vehicle and (2) where that is possible.
>
> (1) Indeed. I posit that "long trip" implies a car rather than a set of
> portable bluetooth speakers

The OP has clarified that it isn't single long journeys in a car, but
journeys with waits between stages.

.. (2) I would be willing to bet that any car
> with a bluetooth connection to a phone will also have an AUX connection.
> Maybe also a CD player.
>

On 10/22/2024 8:45 PM, The Real Bev wrote:

<snip>

> Why not obviate the battery problem by putting the podcasts on a USB
> stick plugged into the AUX socket?

The Aux socket is a 3.5mm jack. A USB stick plugs into a USB port.

In a vehicle you have power for the phone anyway so there is no battery
issue.