On 2024-09-28 15:10, Enrico Papaloma wrote:
> On 9/28/2024 6:39 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:

> The phone is set to connect to that "hidden network" but not to reconnect.
> That's done to keep the Cannabis store from picking up my unique home WAP's
> BSSID while I'm away from home. Together, it's three things for privacy.
>
> [1] Home WAP set up as hidden network (it doesn't broadcast availability)
> [2] Phone set up to connect to the hidden network (credentials are saved)
> [3] But phone is also set up to never auto connect (it doesn't look)

And this is why we told you that we do not need to tap anywhere to connect.

As soon as we get in range of home, the phone connects to it, very fast.

You did not explain in your first post what you were doing that is so
different from what people do. People do not need a home icon to tap to
connect to home WiFi. The phone is faster than humans in doing this on
its own, unless you do things to impede normal working.

And as you changed your name yet another time, we could not remember
what you do.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-09-28 15:17, Enrico Papaloma wrote:
> On 9/28/2024 1:40 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Then live with the consequences.
>
> You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.
>
> The consequences is it takes more than a single tap to connect to a hidden
> home WAP where the goal of this thread is to reduce that to a single tap.
>
> What I'm seeking is a shortcut that connects to any given access point.
>
> That shouldn't be hard to do - but I don't know how to do it. Do you?

Nobody needs it, only you — because of your choices. You are of course
welcomed to your choices, but they have consequences. :-)

So, learn how to program for Android, and create yourself that
application. It is the only thing you can do. Or convince some
programmer to create it.

I could suggest that there are personalization/customization apps. You
tap the phone to a sticker on your door frame; the phone reads it by NFC
(which you have to keep activated for this to work), and on sensing the
"HOME" sticker it automatically customizes the phone. Anything should be
possible, like powering up the WiFi radio and connecting to it.

But you will not like having the NFC active full or most time.

I also long ago mentioned to you an application, that worked well on
Android 2, that would customize the phone depending on location. This
app stopped working that well in later Android versions because user
apps can not switch on/off the Wifi radio.

Pity.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Enrico Papaloma, 2024-09-28 15:10:

> On 9/28/2024 6:39 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Remember the home router is always set to not broadcast your BSSID/SSID
>>> pair, which is prudent not for security but for privacy reasons since then
>>> phones don't upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to Internet databases.
>>
>> Why do you think, that the phone won't do this, when it is *connected*
>> to that SSID?
>
> Good question. I don't know the full answer but I suspect the correct
> answer has a lot to do with the word "this" in your sentence.
>
> What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

In my sentence "this" means "upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to
Internet databases".

[...]
> But I have auto-connect turned off, so the phone is not "looking" for any
> WAP, and therefore once the phone is disconnected from that WAP, it stops
> sending those packets containing the BSSID of the home router WAP.

Yes, but as soon as you connect, this is not the case any longer. So
your *own* WiFi network will be known.

> Given that situation, I suspect the correct answer to your excellent
> question is that the packets are fundamentally different when a phone is
> "looking" to connect to a WAP versus when the phone "is" connected to it.

The phone will automatically see any broadcasted SSIDs and connect to it
when *when* it knows that SSID. There is no need to broadcast anything
at all.

> While I can't control other people's phones, they are set up by Google to
> look for the "I'm here!" packet (which I'll call the "broadcast" packet).
>
> And while I can't control nefarious stores like the Cannabis store or the
> Pawn shop, they too are looking at the "Are you there?" packets I assume.

You assume wrong. A WiFi router does not send any "are you here" packet.
It will usally just broadcast the SSID and all clients which know the
SSID might try to connect to it.

[...]
>> What has auto-connect to do with privacy if you are using your own WiFi
>> network?
>
> Most people don't understand a thing about wireless networking and how it
> impacts their privacy, so I'm not surprised you don't know how it works.
>
> I can't teach you a course in networking here, but the simplest way to
> answer your question is to first patiently explain that most phones are set
> to auto-connect to a known WAP if it sees it, and most routers are set to
> broadcast the WAP's presence, but that's not the situation in my setup.

Just name a website where all this is explained.

[...]
>> Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?
>
> It's basic stuff. Nothing I've said is incorrect so it's everywhere.

So then it should be easy to name at least one of the websites which are
"everywhere".

[...]
>>> That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
>>> I don't want that.
>>
>> With even "minimum skills"? How?
>
> Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.

No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma, 2024-09-28 15:17:

> On 9/28/2024 1:40 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Then live with the consequences.
>
> You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.

No, just inconvinient.

Quote: "is there a way to make a home screen icon to quickly connect to
a definite wi-fi network ap (without using the settings)?"

No - there is not. You have to live with that.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 9/29/2024 9:03 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)
>
> In my sentence "this" means "upload your unique BSSID/SSID pair to
> Internet databases".

You seem to be intelligent in that you've looked up how it works,
so that's good as it's worth it for me to try to explain networking.

All of this information is on the Internet but you have to know what to
look for and you have to know what kinds of specific questions to ask.

The upload of your BSSID/SSID (only the unique BSSID matters) doesn't
happen from your phone so much as from everyone else's phone.

It also happens from your phone if you let Google do it.
But you have total control over that so it shouldn't do it.

>> But I have auto-connect turned off, so the phone is not "looking" for any
>> WAP, and therefore once the phone is disconnected from that WAP, it stops
>> sending those packets containing the BSSID of the home router WAP.
>
> Yes, but as soon as you connect, this is not the case any longer. So
> your *own* WiFi network will be known.

You need to think about the situation at home being DIFFERENT from the
situation away from home - and you need to realize the situation is
DIFFERENT depending on how you set up your home router's access point.

In my situation, when I'm at home, the router is not shouting out the
access point BSSID so it's not being uploaded to Internet databases.

However, that means in my case, I need to either connect manually (entering
in the passphrase & SSID for example) every time I connect, or, I need to
press an existing saved network, which is set to not auto connect again.

From what I know of networking, in that case, the packets will certainly
show the BSSID but not in the broadcast sense - which is what the Internet
databases are obtaining from every Android phone that drives by your home.

Only wardrivers will see them, and that's something you can't prevent
directly, but randomizing every BSSID by access point (which Android now
does by default) and by every connection (which is set in Developer
options) goes a long way in preventing wardrivers making use of the BSSID.

You seem to be aware of this MAC randomization feature, which negates (we
hope) most of the threat from those wardrivers sniffing all the packets.

>> Given that situation, I suspect the correct answer to your excellent
>> question is that the packets are fundamentally different when a phone is
>> "looking" to connect to a WAP versus when the phone "is" connected to it.
>
> The phone will automatically see any broadcasted SSIDs and connect to it
> when *when* it knows that SSID. There is no need to broadcast anything
> at all.

Not when it's a hidden access point.

The good news is you seem to have subsequently looked up how networking
works, so you realize I have been saying correctly how it works all along.

Any phone not already set up for that hidden access point doesn't even see
that hidden access point - which is the whole point of making APs hidden.

As for your own phone, for convenience, your own phone is set to remember
the access point, but your own phone is also set to NOT auto reconnect.

Any other pairing settings will defeat the purpose as the router must be
set to hide the access point (to prevent upload into Internet databases,
whether or not you use "_nomap") and at the same time, your own phone is
usually set for convenience to "remember" that hidden access point
credentials, but to never automatically connect to it (which is what
prevents your phone from shouting out the "Are you here?" command when
you're at the local cannabis shop buying that classic bong of the 70s).

You do not have to set your phone to remember the hidden connection, but
then you'd have to enter your SSID & passphrase every time you get home.

>> While I can't control other people's phones, they are set up by Google to
>> look for the "I'm here!" packet (which I'll call the "broadcast" packet).
>>
>> And while I can't control nefarious stores like the Cannabis store or the
>> Pawn shop, they too are looking at the "Are you there?" packets I assume.
>
> You assume wrong. A WiFi router does not send any "are you here" packet.

Since I can tell you know how basic networking works at the highest level,
I think what's confusing you is there are DIFFERENT ways to set it all up.

Under a normal setup, with the router access point not hidden, and with the
phone set up to automatically reconnect to that known access point, your
router DOES advertise the availability of the "I'm here" packet.

That router "I'm here" packet is what most Android phones driving by your
house pick up and send to Internet databases (even if you append "_nomap").

> It will usally just broadcast the SSID and all clients which know the
> SSID might try to connect to it.

Yes. I knew you understood the highest level of basic networking, which
everyone knows, which is that if you set your home router to not hide your
access point, then the router screams out "I'm here" to all the world.

The Android phones driving by your home use that "I'm here" packet to
upload your GPS location and unique BSSID to the Internet databases.

This happens whether or not you append "_nomap" or "_optout_" to the SSID.

This happens BECAUSE of two things, one of which is you allowed your router
to broadcast the "I'm here" packet, and the Android defaults allow the
phone to upload those "I'm here" packets into Internet databases.

On my setup, that does not happen.

>> I can't teach you a course in networking here, but the simplest way to
>> answer your question is to first patiently explain that most phones are set
>> to auto-connect to a known WAP if it sees it, and most routers are set to
>> broadcast the WAP's presence, but that's not the situation in my setup.
>
> Just name a website where all this is explained.

You didn't google first. And yet, nothing I've said has been wrong.

>>> Do you have a source where one can learn more about this?
>>
>> It's basic stuff. Nothing I've said is incorrect so it's everywhere.
>
> So then it should be easy to name at least one of the websites which are
> "everywhere".

My fee to teach people who don't google, is $200 an hour.

>>>> That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
>>>> I don't want that.
>>>
>>> With even "minimum skills"? How?
>>
>> Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.
>
> No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.

This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.

On 9/29/2024 9:06 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.
>
> No, just inconvinient.
>
> Quote: "is there a way to make a home screen icon to quickly connect to
> a definite wi-fi network ap (without using the settings)?"
>
> No - there is not. You have to live with that.

Most of this thread was explaining basic networking to people who refuse to
google anything that they're unaware of - which is a waste of our time.

To explain basic networking to people who refuse to google it, my fee is
$200 per hour, but this thread wasn't intended to explain basic networking.

There were two parts to the original question, one of which we found
doesn't exist, but the other MUST exist - which is to figure out the
commands that connect to a given known WAP, and bundle that up.

I'm sure an app can be written to do that, since everything is hard coded,
but I don't have the skills to write that app.

Which is why I was hoping there would be an app to do it but there's not.

That question left of how to bundle the commands into an app or shortcut
needs someone with better networking skills than any of us possess.

I'll ask over in some wifi networking forums if experts know the sequence
of events that are required for Android to connect to a known WAP.

Thank you all very much for all your time and help in answering this!
You guys are great!

I probably won't respond further unless it's about those commands as most
of this thread was defending basic networking that I thought everyone knew.

But thank you all for your assistance as you helped me hone the direction I
must go to solve the problem - which is to find the sequence of commands.

On 9/19/2024 9:52 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
>> It seems only the Pixel has a widget that will automatically connect to a
>> known unique BSSID/SSID pair
>
> Even a pixel doesn't have a widget *that* specific.

May I ask you for advice, since you seem to understand what is being asked.

If no app exists, that's fine - but the COMMANDS must be happening on the
phone, and therefore that series of commands must be known to somebody.

Do you have any advice as to how to find what those commands are to connect
to a known access point when that access point is hidden.

I would think the sequence of commands is similar to what happens when you
FIRST connected to that hidden access point, where you had to add
credentials, where all the variables are known, such as BSSID & passphrase.

Obviously I've googled, XDA Developers included, but I haven't found it
yet. Given that, do you have any suggestions for finding that information?

Maybe a "sniffer" of sorts that I can run on the phone (maybe wireshark?)
will identify the packets - but that doesn't tell us what the phone did.

What I need is to tie together the commands the phone does to connect to a
known AP such that it's a single tap instead of the normal 3 steps.

From the Android home screen, it's currently 3 steps in the worst case.
[1] Swipe down to expose the Wi-Fi tile (if Wi-Fi isn't turned on already)
[2] Longpress the Wi-Fi tile to turn it on (if it's not already turned on)
[3] Tap on the saved hidden WAP (which is set to not auto-reconnect)

It's still 3 steps even if the Wi-Fi is turned on.
[1] Swipe down to expose the Wi-Fi tile (even if Wi-Fi is turned on)
[2] Longpress the Wi-Fi tile to expose a list of saved hidden connections
[3] Tap on the saved hidden WAP (which is set to not auto-reconnect)

Using the Wi-Fi Shortcut app, you can reduce that to only two steps.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pw.wifishortcut
[1] Tap on Wi-Fi Shortcut to expose a list of saved hidden connections
[2] Tap on the saved hidden WAP (which is set to not auto-reconnect)

But I'm trying to reduce those two steps to a single step for efficiency.
Any ideas how to do both of those taps in a single tap for each known WAP?

On 2024-09-30 00:30, Enrico Papaloma wrote:
> On 9/29/2024 9:03 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

....

>>> Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.
>>
>> No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.
>
> This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
> assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

Post an exact google search string which produces the information.

>
> First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

Enrico Papaloma wrote:

> If no app exists, that's fine - but the COMMANDS must be happening on the
> phone, and therefore that series of commands must be known to somebody.
>
> Do you have any advice as to how to find what those commands are to connect
> to a known access point when that access point is hidden.

I did have a look at the APIs

<https://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/wifi/WifiManager>

But I couldn't find a straightforward call like

wm = getSystemService(WIFI_SERVICE);
wm.setWifiEnabled(true);
wm.connectToSSID("whatever");

It might require code like this

<https://gist.github.com/cp-radhika-s/74d2eb717bad62f39d28a8727708af9c>

Enrico Papaloma, 2024-09-30 00:30:

> On 9/29/2024 9:03 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> What, exactly, do you mean, by "this"? (See what I mean, below.)

Please do not remove quote introductions, thank you!

[...]
>>>>> That allows anyone with even minimum skills to track your every movement.
>>>>> I don't want that.
>>>>
>>>> With even "minimum skills"? How?
>>>
>>> Again, this is kid's stuff. It's basic networking. Very simple. Look it up.
>>
>> No - *you* claim something, then *you* name the sources.
>
> This is tantamount to claiming I'm a liar - which - is an unsound
> assumption for you since it's clear you didn't even google for it once.

No, I do not say, that you are a liar. I just asked for *one* example
for a website with information about the things you talk about.

> First google it. Otherwise pay me my $200/hour.

Why should I Google for anything? I wont't find *exactly* what you are
referring to and in the end you will tell me that I found the wrong sites.

About payments - nope, I won't pay you to add sources for your own claims.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Enrico Papaloma, 2024-09-30 00:32:

> On 9/29/2024 9:06 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> You make it sound like efficiency is an evil thing for someone to desire.
>>
>> No, just inconvinient.
>>
>> Quote: "is there a way to make a home screen icon to quickly connect to
>> a definite wi-fi network ap (without using the settings)?"
>>
>> No - there is not. You have to live with that.
>
> Most of this thread was explaining basic networking to people who refuse to
> google anything that they're unaware of - which is a waste of our time.
>
> To explain basic networking to people who refuse to google it, my fee is
> $200 per hour, but this thread wasn't intended to explain basic networking.

Name the exact terms what to google for.

[...]
> I'll ask over in some wifi networking forums if experts know the sequence
> of events that are required for Android to connect to a known WAP.

Yes, do this.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 9/30/2024 10:04 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
> Enrico Papaloma wrote:
>
>> If no app exists, that's fine - but the COMMANDS must be happening on the
>> phone, and therefore that series of commands must be known to somebody.
>>
>> Do you have any advice as to how to find what those commands are to connect
>> to a known access point when that access point is hidden.
>
> I did have a look at the APIs
>
> <https://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/wifi/WifiManager>
>
> But I couldn't find a straightforward call like
>
> wm = getSystemService(WIFI_SERVICE);
> wm.setWifiEnabled(true);
> wm.connectToSSID("whatever");
>
> It might require code like this
>
> <https://gist.github.com/cp-radhika-s/74d2eb717bad62f39d28a8727708af9c>

Thanks for that link to the wifimanager developer reference.

This might be what is needed but it might only pick & not connect.
ACTION_PICK_WIFI_NETWORK
Activity Action: Pick a Wi-Fi network to connect to.

This might provide enough information about the connection to force it.
EXTRA_WIFI_INFO
The lookup key for a WifiInfo object giving the information about the
access point to which we are connected.

This might be misused to force the connection to a known bssid.
EXTRA_BSSID
The lookup key for a String giving the BSSID of the access point to which
we are connected.

BTW, I wasn't aware of a connect to multiple access points simultaneously.
WIFI_MULTI_INTERNET_MODE_MULTI_AP
Wi-Fi simultaneous connection to multiple internet-providing Wi-Fi networks
(APs) is enabled.

There's a lot to dig through. I'll start with these breadcrumbs to follow.
reassociate()
This method was deprecated in API level 29. a) See
WifiNetworkSpecifier.Builder#build() for new mechanism to trigger
connection to a Wi-Fi network. b) See
addNetworkSuggestions(java.util.List),
removeNetworkSuggestions(java.util.List) for new API to add Wi-Fi networks
for consideration when auto-connecting to wifi. Compatibility Note: For
applications targeting Build.VERSION_CODES.Q or above, this API will always
return false.

There is also a lot to dig through on the link for connecting to a Wi-Fi
connection which might not have internet.
https://gist.github.com/cp-radhika-s/74d2eb717bad62f39d28a8727708af9c

That code seems to be something that might work if I can create an app in
Android Studio to run it, then I'll see if I can tweak it after getting it
to work (if it works) as I'm not all that good with Android Studio yet.

Lots of homework for me to dig through. Thanks!

Enrico Papaloma wrote:

> This might be what is needed but it might only pick & not connect.
> ACTION_PICK_WIFI_NETWORK
> Activity Action: Pick a Wi-Fi network to connect to.

I think the wifimanager only takes hints, rather than solid instructions.