On 7/29/24 9:48 PM, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-07-29 21:26, The Real Bev wrote:
>> On 7/29/24 1:12 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-28 19:34, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 7/27/24 10:24 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>> On 2024-07-27 20:33, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/27/24 6:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2024-07-27 18:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 7/27/24 12:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Who cares how many times a day I unlock my phone...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...if it doesn't inconvenience me at all to do so?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I only needed to unlock it when I turned it on (in the morning
>>>>>>>> about half the time) I'd be willing to do that.  NOT if I have to
>>>>>>>> do it every time the screen goes blank, which I have it set to do
>>>>>>>> after 2 minutes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it unlocks before you can even do anything?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's annoying enough to have to push the button, but I don't see
>>>>>> any way around that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sorry, but I want to understand:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pushing a button...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...is "annoying"?
>>>>
>>>> My Lenovo tablet, otherwise in fine shape, is useless because the
>>>> little plastic actuaor that actually pushes the switch no longer
>>>> reaches the switch.  I can only assume wear.  I don't want to replace
>>>> my phone because of something stupid like that.  I can take the
>>>> tablet apart, but the phone needs to be glued.  No.
>>>>
>>>>>>> My phone unlocks with my thumbprint by the time I can see the screen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After my experience with the thumb-reader at the gym I'm not about
>>>>>> to trust the phone's.  I suddenly want to take a picture and have
>>>>>> to fumble with the switch AND the thumb-reader?  No.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't have to "fumble" with anything to take a picture, so...
>>>>
>>>> Rotate phone.
>>>> Half-push the power button with thumb because of the oddness of the
>>>> case..
>>>> [tap/touch finger-sensor]
>>>> Re-position the camera.
>>>> Tap the circle.
>>>> Butterfly gone.
>>>>
>>>> Small-muscle clumsiness is the reason that some of us would never be
>>>> good musicians.  Also causes problems with object manipulation.
>>
>>>
>>> So your argument is that unlocking a phone with a home button is bad...
>>
>> What is a home button?  Do you mean power button?
>
> Nope. I mean a home button.
>
> It's on the bottom of some iPhones.

It's a virtual button, not a real one, and useless unless the power
button has turned the screen back on.

>>> ...because yours happens to be broken?
>>
>> Not broken;  I don't like subjecting things to unnecessary wear and I'm
>> clumsy.  I'd also like the tiny fonts used by so many apps to be larger
>> -- WTF are they saving that whitespace for?
>>
>> We all need more config options, not fewer.
>
> You're deflecting now.

Nope, just drifting. The subject of [un]locking the phone seems to have
been sufficiently covered.

--
Cheers, Bev
I've enjoyed just about as much of this as I can stand.

On 2024-07-29 21:52, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 7/29/24 9:48 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-29 21:26, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 7/29/24 1:12 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-28 19:34, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 7/27/24 10:24 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-07-27 20:33, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/27/24 6:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-27 18:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 7/27/24 12:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Who cares how many times a day I unlock my phone...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...if it doesn't inconvenience me at all to do so?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If I only needed to unlock it when I turned it on (in the
>>>>>>>>> morning about half the time) I'd be willing to do that.  NOT if
>>>>>>>>> I have to do it every time the screen goes blank, which I have
>>>>>>>>> it set to do after 2 minutes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it unlocks before you can even do anything?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's annoying enough to have to push the button, but I don't see
>>>>>>> any way around that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry, but I want to understand:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pushing a button...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...is "annoying"?
>>>>>
>>>>> My Lenovo tablet, otherwise in fine shape, is useless because the
>>>>> little plastic actuaor that actually pushes the switch no longer
>>>>> reaches the switch.  I can only assume wear.  I don't want to
>>>>> replace my phone because of something stupid like that.  I can take
>>>>> the tablet apart, but the phone needs to be glued.  No.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My phone unlocks with my thumbprint by the time I can see the
>>>>>>>> screen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After my experience with the thumb-reader at the gym I'm not
>>>>>>> about to trust the phone's.  I suddenly want to take a picture
>>>>>>> and have to fumble with the switch AND the thumb-reader?  No.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You don't have to "fumble" with anything to take a picture, so...
>>>>>
>>>>> Rotate phone.
>>>>> Half-push the power button with thumb because of the oddness of the
>>>>> case..
>>>>> [tap/touch finger-sensor]
>>>>> Re-position the camera.
>>>>> Tap the circle.
>>>>> Butterfly gone.
>>>>>
>>>>> Small-muscle clumsiness is the reason that some of us would never
>>>>> be good musicians.  Also causes problems with object manipulation.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> So your argument is that unlocking a phone with a home button is bad...
>>>
>>> What is a home button?  Do you mean power button?
>>
>> Nope. I mean a home button.
>>
>> It's on the bottom of some iPhones.
>
> It's a virtual button, not a real one, and useless unless the power
> button has turned the screen back on.

Nope. It's useful all the time the phone is on...

....and my phone is one 24/7.

Andrew, 2024-07-27 21:12:

[...]
> Let's just leave it at that, as people can disagree on philosophy as long
> as they don't disagree on the facts.
>
> For every thousand times you unlock your phone, I unlock mine once.

Which is no problem for me at all. Unlocking take way less than a second
for me. It's more or less not much more hassle than just picking up the
phone and turning it on. In fact the display already turns on as soon as
I pick it up so the remaining action to unlock it is really quick.

> I consider my method efficient and your method inefficient.

I consider your method as not relevant for most people. Most people use
their phones to store private data on them. And this data needs to be
protected. And people do not only acces their data once or twice a day.

I use my phone also for my professional job which means I some days I it
*many* times and *alway* I *must* access protected data. Decrypting a
encrypted container only once a day and then leaving it vulnerable for
the whole day would not be an option.

> As long as we agree on the facts, that's all that matters.

Yes, I agree that your method is easier for you. But this does not mean
anything.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

The Real Bev, 2024-07-28 03:46:

> On 7/27/24 12:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>
>> Who cares how many times a day I unlock my phone...
>>
>> ...if it doesn't inconvenience me at all to do so?
>
> If I only needed to unlock it when I turned it on (in the morning about
> half the time) I'd be willing to do that. NOT if I have to do it every
> time the screen goes blank, which I have it set to do after 2 minutes.

It depends on what methods you use for unlocking.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

The Real Bev, 2024-07-28 05:33:

> On 7/27/24 6:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>> On 2024-07-27 18:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> On 7/27/24 12:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Who cares how many times a day I unlock my phone...
>>>>
>>>> ...if it doesn't inconvenience me at all to do so?
>>>
>>> If I only needed to unlock it when I turned it on (in the morning about
>>> half the time) I'd be willing to do that.  NOT if I have to do it every
>>> time the screen goes blank, which I have it set to do after 2 minutes.
>>
>> If it unlocks before you can even do anything?
>
> It's annoying enough to have to push the button, but I don't see any way
> around that.

I don't have to push a button. Picking up the device turns on the screen
already (Google Pixel 6a).

>> My phone unlocks with my thumbprint by the time I can see the screen.
>
> After my experience with the thumb-reader at the gym I'm not about to
> trust the phone's. I suddenly want to take a picture and have to fumble
> with the switch AND the thumb-reader? No.

I pick up the device, the screen turns on and hold the "camera" icon for
about 2 seconds and the camera starts.

Yes, this means also other people my "abuse" the camera. But they can
not access anything else and only see the pictures taken after using the
camera in this situation.

Some devices can be configured to use the volume keys to start the
camera when locked etc..

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

On 2024-08-06 10:59, Arno Welzel wrote:
> The Real Bev, 2024-07-28 05:33:
>
>> On 7/27/24 6:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>> On 2024-07-27 18:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>> On 7/27/24 12:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Who cares how many times a day I unlock my phone...
>>>>>
>>>>> ...if it doesn't inconvenience me at all to do so?
>>>>
>>>> If I only needed to unlock it when I turned it on (in the morning about
>>>> half the time) I'd be willing to do that.  NOT if I have to do it every
>>>> time the screen goes blank, which I have it set to do after 2 minutes.
>>>
>>> If it unlocks before you can even do anything?
>>
>> It's annoying enough to have to push the button, but I don't see any way
>> around that.
>
> I don't have to push a button. Picking up the device turns on the screen
> already (Google Pixel 6a).
>
>>> My phone unlocks with my thumbprint by the time I can see the screen.
>>
>> After my experience with the thumb-reader at the gym I'm not about to
>> trust the phone's. I suddenly want to take a picture and have to fumble
>> with the switch AND the thumb-reader? No.
>
> I pick up the device, the screen turns on and hold the "camera" icon for
> about 2 seconds and the camera starts.
>
> Yes, this means also other people my "abuse" the camera. But they can
> not access anything else and only see the pictures taken after using the
> camera in this situation.
>
> Some devices can be configured to use the volume keys to start the
> camera when locked etc..

On my iPhone, I can swipe to the left to get the camera without
unlocking anything else.

It's almost like Apple understood that there would be times when you
wanted to get a camera more or less immediately.

:-)

Alan, 2024-08-06 21:11:

> On 2024-08-06 10:59, Arno Welzel wrote:
[...]
>> Some devices can be configured to use the volume keys to start the
>> camera when locked etc..
>
> On my iPhone, I can swipe to the left to get the camera without
> unlocking anything else.
>
> It's almost like Apple understood that there would be times when you
> wanted to get a camera more or less immediately.

Well - if "immediately" is about 1-2 seconds - this is possible with a
Google Pixel as well ;-)

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Well - if "immediately" is about 1-2 seconds - this is possible with a
> Google Pixel as well 😉

Whatever you or the phone is doing, two rapid presses of the power
button launches the camera app ... under half a second.

On 2024-08-06 21:11, Alan wrote:
> On 2024-08-06 10:59, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> The Real Bev, 2024-07-28 05:33:
>>
>>> On 7/27/24 6:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-27 18:46, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>> On 7/27/24 12:51 PM, Alan wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who cares how many times a day I unlock my phone...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...if it doesn't inconvenience me at all to do so?
>>>>>
>>>>> If I only needed to unlock it when I turned it on (in the morning
>>>>> about
>>>>> half the time) I'd be willing to do that.  NOT if I have to do it
>>>>> every
>>>>> time the screen goes blank, which I have it set to do after 2 minutes.
>>>>
>>>> If it unlocks before you can even do anything?
>>>
>>> It's annoying enough to have to push the button, but I don't see any way
>>> around that.
>>
>> I don't have to push a button. Picking up the device turns on the screen
>> already (Google Pixel 6a).
>>
>>>> My phone unlocks with my thumbprint by the time I can see the screen.
>>>
>>> After my experience with the thumb-reader at the gym I'm not about to
>>> trust the phone's.  I suddenly want to take a picture and have to fumble
>>> with the switch AND the thumb-reader?  No.
>>
>> I pick up the device, the screen turns on and hold the "camera" icon for
>> about 2 seconds and the camera starts.
>>
>> Yes, this means also other people my "abuse" the camera. But they can
>> not access anything else and only see the pictures taken after using the
>> camera in this situation.
>>
>> Some devices can be configured to use the volume keys to start the
>> camera when locked etc..
>
> On my iPhone, I can swipe to the left to get the camera without
> unlocking anything else.
>
> It's almost like Apple understood that there would be times when you
> wanted to get a camera more or less immediately.
>
> :-)

On my Motorola, I only have to agitate the phone in a certain manner,
and the camera opens.

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-08-06 19:53, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Andrew, 2024-07-27 21:12:
>
> [...]
>> Let's just leave it at that, as people can disagree on philosophy as long
>> as they don't disagree on the facts.
>>
>> For every thousand times you unlock your phone, I unlock mine once.
>
> Which is no problem for me at all. Unlocking take way less than a second
> for me. It's more or less not much more hassle than just picking up the
> phone and turning it on. In fact the display already turns on as soon as
> I pick it up so the remaining action to unlock it is really quick.
>
>> I consider my method efficient and your method inefficient.
>
> I consider your method as not relevant for most people. Most people use
> their phones to store private data on them. And this data needs to be
> protected. And people do not only acces their data once or twice a day.

Store or access. Like accessing a banking app. Like making fast
payments. It is a thing millions of people do pretty often.

>
> I use my phone also for my professional job which means I some days I it
> *many* times and *alway* I *must* access protected data. Decrypting a
> encrypted container only once a day and then leaving it vulnerable for
> the whole day would not be an option.
>
>> As long as we agree on the facts, that's all that matters.
>
> Yes, I agree that your method is easier for you. But this does not mean
> anything.
>

--
Cheers, Carlos.

On 2024-08-10 01:09, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Alan, 2024-08-06 21:11:
>
>> On 2024-08-06 10:59, Arno Welzel wrote:
> [...]
>>> Some devices can be configured to use the volume keys to start the
>>> camera when locked etc..
>>
>> On my iPhone, I can swipe to the left to get the camera without
>> unlocking anything else.
>>
>> It's almost like Apple understood that there would be times when you
>> wanted to get a camera more or less immediately.
>
> Well - if "immediately" is about 1-2 seconds - this is possible with a
> Google Pixel as well ;-)
>

I'm sure it is.

What of it?

On 2024-08-10 02:49, Andy Burns wrote:
> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Well - if "immediately" is about 1-2 seconds - this is possible with a
>> Google Pixel as well 😉
>
> Whatever you or the phone is doing, two rapid presses of the power
> button launches the camera app ... under half a second.

Wow... ...under half a second.

Carlos E.R. wrote on Sat, 10 Aug 2024 14:03:53 +0200 :

> On my Motorola, I only have to agitate the phone in a certain manner,
> and the camera opens.

On my 2021 Android 13 Samsung, but I presume it's on all recent Androids, I
can set the power button doubleclick to run any app you want it to run.

Sometimes I have it set to run the voice recorder; other times I've set it
to run the flashlight (which is most of the time). Default is the camera.

Googling it seems pretty universal...
<https://www.google.com/search?q=android+power+button+doubleclick+set+flashlight>

Andy Burns wrote on Sat, 10 Aug 2024 10:49:22 +0100 :

> Whatever you or the phone is doing, two rapid presses of the power
> button launches the camera app ... under half a second.

The camera is the default but you can set it to launch (almost?) any app.
Sometimes I've set mine to the voice recorder (for MD appointments).
Other times I've set it to the flashlight (which is usually how it's set).

There used to be an app called "Tap Tap" which did the same things if you
simply tapped twice on the back of the phone (dunno if it's still around).

Andrew wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> two rapid presses of the power
>> button launches the camera app
>
> The camera is the default but you can set it to launch (almost?) any app.

Samsungs are a bit different? Actually the pixel8a is a bit different
out of the box, a long press of the power button doesn't act as expected
(shutdown/reboot/emerg call) but as a gemini AI assistant button, but
you can change it to "normal"

Andy Burns wrote on Tue, 13 Aug 2024 21:14:18 +0100 :

>> The camera is the default but you can set it to launch (almost?) any app.
>
> Samsungs are a bit different? Actually the pixel8a is a bit different
> out of the box, a long press of the power button doesn't act as expected
> (shutdown/reboot/emerg call) but as a gemini AI assistant button, but
> you can change it to "normal"

Do the Pixels have a "Sidekey" entry in the "Advanced Features" section?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=samsung+sidekey+settings>

Here's a screenshot from September of last year on my A32-5G phone.
<https://i.postimg.cc/B6y5cYCq/sidekey01.jpg>
That was probably Android 12 at the time, as it may be version dependent.

You can set that sidekey setting to bring up any app you want to bring up.
The default is the camera - but I keep mine at the flashlight mostly.
Sometimes I make it the audio recorder if I need to record w/o looking.

Andrew wrote:

> Do the Pixels have a "Sidekey" entry in the "Advanced Features" section?
Is that Samsung salvaging the 'bixby' button?

Andrew wrote:

> You can set that sidekey setting to bring up any app you want to bring up.

The closest any of my pixels has come to that was the Pixel3, where you
could squeeze the sides of the phone to trigger the voice assistant.

Andrew, 2024-08-13 19:18:

> Andy Burns wrote on Sat, 10 Aug 2024 10:49:22 +0100 :
>
>> Whatever you or the phone is doing, two rapid presses of the power
>> button launches the camera app ... under half a second.
>
> The camera is the default but you can set it to launch (almost?) any app.
> Sometimes I've set mine to the voice recorder (for MD appointments).
> Other times I've set it to the flashlight (which is usually how it's set).
>
> There used to be an app called "Tap Tap" which did the same things if you
> simply tapped twice on the back of the phone (dunno if it's still around).

Google Pixel Phones provides using double tapping the back of the phone
as gesture as a setting - at least my Pixel 6a. But I think newer models
have that feature as well.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Andy Burns, 2024-08-13 22:14:

> Andrew wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> two rapid presses of the power
>>> button launches the camera app
>>
>> The camera is the default but you can set it to launch (almost?) any app.
>
> Samsungs are a bit different? Actually the pixel8a is a bit different
> out of the box, a long press of the power button doesn't act as expected
> (shutdown/reboot/emerg call) but as a gemini AI assistant button, but
> you can change it to "normal"

It's the same with Pixel 6a, 6, 7, 7 Pro and so on...

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> the pixel8a is a bit different out of the box, a long press of the
>> power button doesn't act as expected (shutdown/reboot/emerg call)
>> but as a gemini AI assistant button, but you can change it to
>> "normal"
>
> It's the same with Pixel 6a, 6, 7, 7 Pro and so on...
I'm a Nexus/Pixel fan, but I don't buy one *every* year. The 8a is the
first one I have (since the 5a) that has re-purposed the power button
like that ...

Andy Burns, 2024-08-19 08:33:

>
> Arno Welzel wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> the pixel8a is a bit different out of the box, a long press of the
>>> power button doesn't act as expected (shutdown/reboot/emerg call)
>>> but as a gemini AI assistant button, but you can change it to
>>> "normal"
>>
>> It's the same with Pixel 6a, 6, 7, 7 Pro and so on...
> I'm a Nexus/Pixel fan, but I don't buy one *every* year. The 8a is the
> first one I have (since the 5a) that has re-purposed the power button
> like that ...

I just added this for completenes. I don't have all these phones either
(except the 6a).

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote on Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:05:02 +0200 :

>>>> the pixel8a is a bit different out of the box, a long press of the
>>>> power button doesn't act as expected (shutdown/reboot/emerg call)
>>>> but as a gemini AI assistant button, but you can change it to
>>>> "normal"
>>>
>>> It's the same with Pixel 6a, 6, 7, 7 Pro and so on...
>> I'm a Nexus/Pixel fan, but I don't buy one *every* year. The 8a is the
>> first one I have (since the 5a) that has re-purposed the power button
>> like that ...
>
> I just added this for completenes. I don't have all these phones either
> (except the 6a).

I love the repurposed power button when used as a quick flashlight app.

I've never had a Pixel, simply because I get all my phones free, so I get
whatever phone they want to give me, for free, which is currently the
Samsung Galaxy A32-5G from 2021 which is doing just fine for me.

I wonder what I'd get if I bought a "more powerful" phone that I'd want?

Dunno. I'm happy with the Samsung Galaxy A32-5G, although it's not really
from 2021 in that I got the first set of three in about April of 2021, but
I screwed up the USB port (by sleeping on it when it was plugged in), so
they replaced that for free under warranty and then somehow I got
overzealous in the customizations where it froze & wouldn't boot up.

That was about November of 2022 (or thereabouts), so my Samsung Galaxy
A32-5G is really only about two years old. It's stuck on Android 13 though.

Unfortunately, as far as anyone on XDA knows, it's unrootable.
But still, what would I get that I want if I got a "more powerful" phone?

Andrew, 2024-08-19 18:04:

> Arno Welzel wrote on Mon, 19 Aug 2024 10:05:02 +0200 :
>
>>>>> the pixel8a is a bit different out of the box, a long press of the
>>>>> power button doesn't act as expected (shutdown/reboot/emerg call)
>>>>> but as a gemini AI assistant button, but you can change it to
>>>>> "normal"
>>>>
>>>> It's the same with Pixel 6a, 6, 7, 7 Pro and so on...
>>> I'm a Nexus/Pixel fan, but I don't buy one *every* year. The 8a is the
>>> first one I have (since the 5a) that has re-purposed the power button
>>> like that ...
>>
>> I just added this for completenes. I don't have all these phones either
>> (except the 6a).
>
> I love the repurposed power button when used as a quick flashlight app.
>
> I've never had a Pixel, simply because I get all my phones free, so I get
> whatever phone they want to give me, for free, which is currently the
> Samsung Galaxy A32-5G from 2021 which is doing just fine for me.

Who is "they"? Mobile network providers? They usually don't give things
away for free but instead you get this for extending the contract for
another 1 or 2 years and they charge you more for that contract compared
to those customers who don't take the "free" device. Depending on the
provider the "free" device may even be more expensive this way when you
sum up the monthly fees you pay in two years.

--
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

Arno Welzel wrote on Mon, 19 Aug 2024 22:06:14 +0200 :

>> I've never had a Pixel, simply because I get all my phones free, so I get
>> whatever phone they want to give me, for free, which is currently the
>> Samsung Galaxy A32-5G from 2021 which is doing just fine for me.
>
> Who is "they"? Mobile network providers? They usually don't give things
> away for free but instead you get this for extending the contract for
> another 1 or 2 years and they charge you more for that contract compared
> to those customers who don't take the "free" device. Depending on the
> provider the "free" device may even be more expensive this way when you
> sum up the monthly fees you pay in two years.

You live in a world that is foreign to Americans, where we get plenty of
phones for free, without contracts, and without any real strings attached.

But we do have to pay local sales tax on the full MSRP of our free phones.

Also the iPhones aren't free for some reason, as they're only 1/2 price.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg>

We even get free tablet SIM cards for life, but at only 200 MB/month data.
<https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg>